Project Core Analysis Workshop (Week 3: Suicune + Ferrothorn: Partners)


Previous thread, OP, and banner done by Infernal
Pokémon teams rely on offensive and defensive synergy to function. Cores of Pokémon are units within teams that are built specifically to take advantage of these synergies between Pokémon. Many teams are built around such cores. The premise of this thread is to analyze cores by discussing threats to them and then potential partners. Hopefully this exercise helps you with your teambuilding process.

Although a few may be used, the cores posted here won't necessarily be taken from the Good Cores thread. However, looking through the Good Cores thread is recommended if you are looking for a core to build around.

Procedure

Two Pokemon Cores
  • For 4-5 days after that post, posters will have the chance to post threats and/or partners to the core. For example, Talonflame is a threat to the core of Hoopa-Unbound + Mega Lopunny, and Rotom-W is a good partner with the core to help deal with this threat and other issues.
  • When the week is up, I will choose the top 3 partners to the core and put them in the OP. This is a subjective procedure. As such, other players will be consulted for opinions, unless they made nominations in the thread themselves. Please don’t be insulted if your nomination doesn’t make the OP. There will be many other opportunities, and a hall of fame will be created to reward users who consistently contribute good nominations.
Three Pokemon Cores
  • For half the week, posters will have a chance to post threats to the given core.
  • After the time period is up, I will choose the top threats to the core and add them to the OP. We won't discuss partners for cores with 3 Pokémon.
Rules
  • Please follow up your reservations in a timely fashion, ideally within 24 hours. If you don't finish your reservation in a timely manner, I will allow someone else to take the Pokémon you reserved. Please do not make a habit out of not following up on your reservations.
  • Please post only Pokémon that are viable in OU. This means they should be listed on the viability rankings thread. NOTE: With rules like this one, I prefer exercising leniency rather than enforcing it strictly. I don't want to discourage contributions, so if someone would like to mention a Pokemon that's threatening to the core and unlisted in the Viability Rankings, that's fine as long as they provide a genuine explanation behind their choice. Of course, the majority of threats and partners posted here should still be ones viable in OU and listed on the Viability Rankings. However, there's no harm in having some unranked Pokemon posted every now and then to shake things up a little.
  • Each poster may only nominate one partner to a core. I would prefer you only post one threat as well but if many threats have been posted since your first post I may allow you to mention a second threat. If you see activity is down and you have more threats and/or partners in mind, feel free to mention them.
  • When posting, please mention whether the Pokémon you are mentioning is a threat or partner. This helps a lot with keeping the thread organized.
  • When posting either a threat or a partner, explain yourself. Calculations aren't necessary, but please list more reasons than something simple like type synergy. Be descriptive so other posters and I can fully understand the reasoning behind your nomination. Furthermore, please list a full set of the Pokémon including its item, full moveset, EV spread, and nature.
  • When nominating partners, please post one moveset and EV spread. I'd prefer you didn't use slashes much just because this should be treated as a teambuilding exercise. This can't be avoided every time, so I will exercise some leniency with this rule!
  • Please be respectful to others!
Clarification regarding Threats / Partners
  • A threat to the core must check or counter at least one member and cannot be countered by the other. A threat does not necessarily need to be able to switch into both members of the core, but it should be difficult/annoying to switch into for the members of the core. Of course, the biggest threats counter both members.
  • When nominating partners, you are allowed to make suggested changes to the current sets of the members of the core.
 
Last edited:
Core Archive
Mew + Mega Diancie

Threats | Partners
Top Partners:

Keldeo | Tornadus-T | Dragonite


Nidoking + Rotom-W

Threats | Partners
Top Partner:
Hoopa-U

Hydreigon + Jirachi

Threats
| Partners
Top Partners:
Landorus-T |
Mega Manectric

Alakazam + Keldeo

Threats | Partners
Top Partners:

Rotom-W |
Mega Scizor

Suicune + Mega Latias + Heatran

Threats
Raikou | Latios | Hoopa-Unbound | Kyurem-Black | Serperior | Manaphy

Hoopa-Unbound + Mega Lopunny

Threats | Partners
Top Partners:
Rotom-W | Landorus-T | Garchomp | Klefki


Terrakion + Mega Scizor

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Rotom-W | Azumarill | Clefable

Zygarde + Mega Gardevoir

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Keldeo | Magneton | Tornadus-T

Tangrowth + Slowking

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Heatran | Tyranitar |
Mega Aerodactyl

Tyranitar + Serperior

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Keldeo | Mega Slowbro | Mega Scizor

Crawdaunt + Mega Metagross

Threats and Partners
Top Partner:
Thundurus-I

Togekiss + Gastrodon

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Mega Scizor |
Heatran | Tyranitar

Volcanion + Clefable

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:

Tyranitar | Landorus-T | Thundurus-I
Jellicent + Ferrothorn

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Tyranitar | Clefable | Tornadus-T
Goodra + Manaphy

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Mega Scizor | Heatran | Bisharp

Mega Medicham + Gliscor

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:

Tornadus-T | Rotom-W | Jirachi
Mega Heracross + Raikou

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Jirachi | Landorus-T | Tornadus-T
Mega Aerodactyl + Keldeo

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Latios | Magnezone
Garchomp + Reuniclus

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Keldeo | Mega Scizor | Skarmory
Diggersby + Latias + Azumarill

Threats

Serperior | Mega Sceptile | Mega Metagross | Kyurem-Black | Thundurus-I
Bisharp + Weavile

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Keldeo | Latias or Mega Latias
Mega Sableye + Dugtrio

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Talonflame | Ferrothorn | Togekiss | Shedinja
Gyarados + Heatran

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Latios | Latias
Mega Pinsir + Magnezone

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Landorus-T | Latias | Rotom-W

Tornadus-T + Mega Manectric

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Azumarill | Breloom | Scizor
Charizard-X + Starmie

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Serperior | Jirachi
Thundurus-I + Breloom

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Mega Metagross | Mega Scizor | Landorus-T

Mega Gyarados + Latios

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Breloom | Jirachi | Heatran
Mega Houndoom + Azumarill

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Latias | Tangrowth

Slowbro + Gliscor

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Tyranitar | Mega Venusaur | Heatran

Gengar + Mega Scizor

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Rotom-W | Keldeo
Landorus-T + Volcanion

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Clefable | Ferrothorn | Weavile
Kyurem + Rotom-W

Threats and Partners

Top Partners:
Mega Scizor | Jirachi
Zapdos + Suicune

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Dugtrio | Ferrothorn | Latias

Alomomola + Amoonguss

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Heatran | Tyranitar | Tornadus-T


Clefable + Mega Lopunny

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Manaphy | Rotom-W | Gengar

Thundurus-I + Excadrill

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Mega Heracross

Mamoswine + Mega Manectric

Threats and Partners
Top Partners
:
Breloom | Latios

Kyurem-B + Mega Diancie

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Heatran | Talonflame
Suicune + Ferrothorn

Threats and Partners
Top Partners:
Mega Latias |
Heatran

Hall of Fame

Core Currently Being Discussed

Suicune + Ferrothorn
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt


Latias @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Healing Wish
- Defog

This is a fairly old core that's been pushed aside in favor of some of the newer stuff out there, but it's still fully functional. Mega Gardevoir has always been incredibly powerful, boasting a potent pair of STABs and some solid stallbreaking potential with Taunt. A major issue with Gardevoir is of being worn down too quickly, as it lacks recovery and is vulnerable to almost all forms of residual damage. On top of this, Gardevoir is incredibly reliant on its Speed in order to function, and suffers greatly from paralysis. Thus, Latias has been a common partner to it, as the ability to remove entry hazards via Defog allows Gardevoir a little extra room to breathe, and Healing Wish can completely rejuvenate Gardevoir and allow it to continue wallbreaking as needed.

At this time, we'll start with naming threats to this core. You'll have until the 23rd to submit a threat, at which point we will begin discussing partners.
 
Nice to see this thread back.

Threat:


Scizor @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn

Mega Scizor can come in relatively unharmed against Mega Gardevoir because it lacks Hidden Power Fire or Will-O-Wisp. Latias also doesn't carry anything that threatens it, allowing Mega Scizor to either heal up, set up a Swords Dance or grab momentum with U-Turn.

EDIT: EV spread changed to also take on Mega Lopunny better. Credit to Martin.
 
Last edited:

Martin

Trolled, memed, gif’d, and—dare I say—pwn’d
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Hate laptops; had this fully typed up in my edit window and the page decided to go back for literally no reason and I lost my near-complete write up ;;;


Colours imply they should only be used alongside certain options

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 228 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock / Wish
- U-turn / Protect
- Body Slam / Healing Wish (non-compulsary)

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Atk / 96 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Fire Punch

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe OR 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold / Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Flash Cannon
- Psyshock / Hidden Power Ground / Icy Wind / Body Slam

Scarf too I guess but that's a bit shakier
Jirachi resists everything barring Focus Blast which it can take with ease when it's got HP investment. SpD takes jack all from it whereas the various Substitute variants are able to avoid 2HKOs without any SpD investment. Anyway, this allows it to use them for fodder to either just wall it throughout the match with WishTect or to use them for Sub/SR/CM/U-turn bait consistently. It just generally has a field day vs. both of these Pokémon, so yeah it's one of the most consistent stops to this core.
 
Last edited:
Threat: Offensive speedboosters. I think they can all take one entry since they are very rarely used and they pretty much all destroy the core in the same fashion


Scolipede @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Megahorn
- Aqua Tail
- Swords Dance / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Poison Jab / Whatever

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet / Ice Fang / Poison Fang / Whatever

252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 24 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 298-352 (105.3 - 124.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Megahorn vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 463-549 (145.1 - 172.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 24 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 291-343 (102.8 - 121.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Strong Jaw Mega Sharpedo Crunch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 452-534 (141.6 - 167.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Naturally, these things can't switch into anything (unless an excellent predict on Focus Blast - psychic move respectively). However, even if Jolly, both of these Pokemon get a speed boost, outspeed and OHKO both members of the core with a singe stab Megahorn / Crunch without prior damage. Sharpedo needs to Megaevolve to do so, however, which means it can only grab one boost from its base form. Jolly Scolipede does not need to protect since it outspeeds both members of the core. Latias' bulkier offensive support spread with 72 HP EVs can't save it either.


Sharpedo @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Protect
- Crunch
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Beam

252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 24 HP / 4 Def Mega Gardevoir: 250-294 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Sharpedo Crunch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 385-455 (120.6 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Does the exact same thing, only needs Rocks up to ohko Mega Gardevoir
 
Last edited:
Threat: Any Weavile set is a threat to the core, capable of OHKOing both with LO Icicle Crash and OHKOing Latias with Knock Off. Obviously it can't switch in on anything other than a status move or Psyshock, but if it DOES get in, neither stand much of a chance. Plus it can run Pursuit to risk trapping one of them.

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 424-502 (140.8 - 166.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 374-445 (124.2 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 351-416 (116.6 - 138.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 234-277 (84.4 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 179-212 (64.6 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 220-261 (79.4 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
 


Keldeo + Scarf Tar is a really big threat to this core. They both outspeed Gard and hit it extremely hard. Rocks and maybe a tiny hit or two will put them into the range of Hydro Pump and Stone Edge. Latias is pursuit trapped by Ttar, and Hydro Pump 3HKOs Latias, meaning it can damage it, switch int Ttar, limiting Latia's ability to defog or to take hits from something else on your team. If they predict you to switch, they can Icy Wind on your Latias switch if they get a scald off before hand, out run you and kill you. This is why Keldeo + Scarf Tar is a huge problem for this core, Gard is heavily reliant on Latias to check Keldeo seeing as the slightest bit of chip damage puts it in range of hydro, but with Ttar, it forces mind games and makes everything 110% harder. Mega Zard Y + Scarf Tar could also work but keldeo is probably a bigger threat due to the ability to reliably burn the Latias / icy wind it to finish it off by itself.

One of the recommendations I have for this team would probably to add a Tangrowth. This helps take hits from both of these pokemon, and its grass STAB lets it threaten both of these mons. While this doesn't help the zard match up, keldeo is far more threatening to this team. AV tangrowth helps vs the sand matchups bc most of the common pokemon on sand like drill, exca, rotom wash, etc can't really deal with it and it gets regenerator to save its health and ye tangrowth is the best pokemon and should be on every team. On a serious note, tangrowth also helps you vs the bulkier builds bc knocking off their leftovers, eviolite, etc is really annoying and that passive recover truly helps. Heatran also loses its leftovers meaning it won't be able to passively get into range to take a FB, which helps gard beat it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 107-126 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tangrowth: 130-154 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- 95.7% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 144-170 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tangrowth: 138-163 (34.1 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 207-244 (73.6 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Hi, this is my fist time posting on a thread like this so, if i made something wrong please forgive me :( and let me know :)

Threat: I think this Steel-type core of Heatran and Bisharp can be a real threat to the core we are discussing because of a combination of bulk (heatran) and a fully offensive superefective priority attack (Bisharp) that can even set up in front of Latias for instance. Well, here are 2 possible sets that could stop, or at least threat, the core of Gardevoir+Latias:



Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume/Flash Cannon
- Toxic
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Main Strategy(requires both Heatran and Bisharp): Heatran resists anything Latias can do, can set up Stealth Rock in front of Latias, forcing Latias to Defog on next turn, then you can switch to Bisharp, activating his Defiant ability (Defog makes you lose evasion and, consequently, raise attack) and completely defeat the core (and even more pokemon) of the team.

Plan B(requires heatran): Specially Defensive Heatran survives anything Latias can do, can cripple it with Toxic and defeat it easilly with Protect+Leftovers recovery+Toxic damage). It fears Focus Blast from gardevoir tho, but its a 2HKO leaving him to make some damage with Lava Plume/Flash Cannon or cripple it with toxic, so other pokémon can finnish it off.




Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head

I think Bisharp, specially the Life Orb version, is a quite dangerous threat to the core because of its high attack and supereffective moves and its typing makes it resist a large amount of the attacks used by them. Specially if it faces Latias before Gardevoir.
Bisharp can play with Latias, by surviving a Life Orb Draco Meteor can set up a Swords Dance and then OHKO back with Sucker Punch, or if the opponent switches, you had a free boost turn. In the other hand, Bisharp can come when you predict a Defog by Latias (assuming rocks are up), then it activates his Defiant ability and OHKO back both Latias and Gardevoir with Sucker Punch.
Bisharp can defeat 24 EV def by OHKOing with a Sucker Punch at +0 predicting a Focus Blast or Hyper Voice (if you predict a Taunt, maybe your opponent don't want you to set up). The chance of OHKO is just around 38%, but is still considerable.
Obviously Bisharp can only switch in against Gardevoir if you fantastically predict a Psyshock, but this isn't the main strategy of this steel type core. But, still an option if anything fails or if the way of the battle forces you playing this way.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 250-294 (90.2 - 106.1%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 398-471 (132.2 - 156.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 497-586 (179.4 - 211.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even if Bisharp is running Pursuit it can still damage hardly Latias:
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 198-237 (65.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
threat:


literally any excadrill

95% of excadrills 100% check or beat this core clean if latias is weakened. eq does 50-55% to standard defensive latias and about 80-90% to mega gardevoir, iron head one shots mega garde and chunks latias, and at base 100/110 speed for the core respectively, a sand adamant or adamant scarf will outspeed both. mold breaker is extra worrisome since latias cant switch in on the eq to "scare it out". av beats latias one on one and mega garde needs to have focus blast to win.

calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 211-250 (57.9 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 541-640 (192.5 - 227.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 337-398 (119.9 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 147-174 (40.3 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, 2hko apres rocks
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 378-446 (134.5 - 158.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 16 HP / 8 Def Mega Gardevoir: 237-279 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

how driller is not on most teams is mind boggling

threat:

100% any weavile

shit man i dont even need to explain this knock or icicle crash will kill most latias's and garde dies to a icicle crash, mon is strong af and this team cant do jack about it

lo+252 attack+icicle crash on most mons=death
 

Skarmory @ Leftovers / Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Spikes
- Counter
- Whirlwind

Skarmory beats Weavile, Bisharp, Scarf Ttar, Scolipede, Mega Sharpedo, Jirachi (fears burn from subtoxic though), Mega Scizor, non-Tpunch Mega Metagross, and to a lesser extent, Tpunch Megagross. So, everything mentioned thus far not named Keldeo or Heatran. As for the moveset, Latias already has Defog, so Skarm gets Spikes (which also help since all those threats are grounded), Counter to actually deal damage to these Steel-types, and Whirlwind since a bunch of them can set up.

I mean really, it's a Dragon and a Fairy, you gotta consider a Steel-type for Partner #3.
 
Last edited:

Martin

Trolled, memed, gif’d, and—dare I say—pwn’d
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash / Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Reversal / Stone Edge
- Screech / Sucker Punch
- Memento / Stealth Rock / Toxic

Dugtrio does a nice job of trapping and either weakening or eliminating a number of Pokémon that give the core trouble, including but not limited to Chansey, Heatran, Jirachi and ScarfTar. In exchange, Gardevoir and Latias are both capable of denting non-Choice Scarf Lando-T; Gardevoir forms one of those infamous Duggy+Wallbreaker cores, and Latias is able to allow the Dugtrio player to be a bit reckless with opposing Heatran, as uninvested Lava Plume bring it down to sash (Dugtrio even lives when burned) and Latias can use Healing Wish can restore it back to full health to allow it to trap something it needs its sash for later if it needs to.
 
Last edited:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Lava Plume
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

This core really appreciates Heatran's presence here to avoid getting overrun by Scizor and Mega Metagross (seriously, when was the last time you see this thing with Hammer Arm). It also helps to check random stuff like opposing Heatran (which you can lure with Earth Power!), Jirachi, Ferrothorn and Clefable. It also lures in Rotom-W, Keldeo and Suicune which can be exploited by Mega Gard and Latias.
 
Last edited:
tangrowth/breloom+excadrill
+


these two extra members are nice and simple. physically bulky tangrowth to put a stop to everything listed above bar weavile, and scarf excadrill aka the god set to come in and deal with weavile itself. it also has some troubles with talonflame/birdspam, but scarf e-drill with rockslide can come in and bop everything late. tangrowth should run rocky helmet to discourage physical spam as well.

if you do run breloom, you now lose the switchability on alot of things but now you dont lose to weavile and you can spore things so thats nice.

scarf exca set
Excadrill @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
- Rapid Spin

Tangrowth
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP/204 or 252 DEF/4 or 48 SP.Def
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain

you can change some moves on these sets to better fit your feel, and breloom can run the basic set on smogon and be fine (spore+sd)
 
Last edited:

Amoonguss

champagne papi

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

This core really needs something that can deal with steel / dark types since a bisharp, or weavile can completely demolish this team. With the addition of RestTalk Keldeo those pokemon no longer become a problem since keldeo can almost always switchin and rest up damage if it takes too much damage. In return this core pressures amoonguss, venusaur, and latios heavily, which are 3 solid keldeo answers.
 
The following posts will be added to the OP and will go towards the hall of fame.
- Martin's Dugtrio
Dugtrio is a great offensive partner to this core. Thanks to its ability to trap and kill Steel types, both Gardevoir and Latias are allowed much more room to throw around STAB attacks. On top of this, Dugtrio can be used to remove problematic mons such as Scarf Tyranitar and Chansey.

- Amoonguss's Keldeo
Keldeo's typing allows it to serve a defensive role for this core. It's able to switch into many of the Dark and Steel types that this core tends to dislike, such as Jirachi, Bisharp, Tyranitar, Weavile, and Scizor. Gardevoir and Latias are able to help Keldeo in turn, as they have decent matchups against many of Keldeo's checks.


Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 240 HP / 136 Atk / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
- Substitute / Swords Dance

Paralysis support and Mega Heracross is like bread and butter, so it's not uncommon to see Heracross partnered with a Thunder Wave user in order to help it out with its low Speed. Thundurus-I fits the bill in this case, since it and Heracross have some reasonable synergy together. Thundurus is able to take on several of the things that Heracross despises, being able to check and cripple threats like Talonflame and Tornadus-T. In return, Heracross is able to trash most of the things that would stop Thundurus defensively, and can put heavy pressure onto mutual checks, such as Clefable and Quagsire.

Little late this week so you'll have until Oct 2nd to post checks.
 

Martin

Trolled, memed, gif’d, and—dare I say—pwn’d
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator

Talonflame @ Lum Berry
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Jolly Talonflame is capable of outpacing and chunking both of these Pokémon with Flare Blitz and Brave Bird, respectively. That said, T-Wave Thundy is able to paralyze it before it can use Flare Blitz. Now, having experimented with different items on SD Talonflame in the past (ones I've had success with in the past: Sharp Beak, Safety Goggles, Lum Berry), Lum Berry is definitely a really interesting option to run on it for various reasons. It allows it to switch in on Amoonguss and Tangrowth without risking being put to sleep/nailed by Stun Spore once (it's a worse Safety Goggles in that regard), and it is also able to protect it from being paralyzed by Thundurus that it comes in against to revenge kill. This is really nice because without Lum it can't RK weakened Thunder Wave variants without being crippled, which is a really nice perk to have in general. As such, the variant that messes with this core the most is Lum Berry SD.

252 Atk Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 190-225 (63.5 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (very high chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock + 1 round of Life Orb recoil)
252 Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 508-600 (140.7 - 166.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Overheat

Mega Manectric outpaces Thundurus and is immune to Thunder Wave while actively getting a SpA boost off of both T-Wave and Thunderbolt if it's not mega'd yet. It has a chance to OHKO Mega Heracross with Overheat after Stealth Rock damage without a boost, and it 2HKOs Thundurus with Thunderbolt. Be careful of Focus Blast though, so it may be safer to Volt Switch unless you have weakened it enough to KO. Intimidate allows it to live any one hit from Mega Heracross at max HP, meaning that if you get a low roll on Overheat or they haven't taken SR damage you can just barely take 1 hit if you're at max HP if you need to.

252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 280-330 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 183-216 (61.2 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Mega Manectric Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 142-168 (47.4 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Last edited:
This core is very annoying to check because priority Thunder Wave screws over most Choice Scarf Pokemon or speed demons. I mean, most Pokemon can get in on Heracross and threaten a OHKO on both Pokemon but that priority Thunder Wave from Thundurus will invalidate them even though they probably will OHKO Thundurus too.

Threat:


Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Roost
- Earthquake

Mega Altaria can OHKO Mega Heracross and can OHKO Thundurus with Hyper Voice, provided Stealth Rock is up (or Thundurus has prior damage). It can also take an unboosted Mega Heracross attack or an unboosted Hidden Power Ice.


Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Aerial Ace
- Ice Fang
- Fire Fang

Mega Aerodactyl can OHKO both Pokemon with its STAB moves. However, this will also cause it to be paralyzed by Thunder Wave.
 
Taking Nidoking and Lum Volcarona


Nidoking @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam
- Flamethrower

Even though Nidoking mostly acts as a wallbreaker, it can also take care of this core by OHKOing/heavily damaging this core with the appropriate move. Indeed, Nidoking's typing unables it to withstand M-Heracross' Close Combat (and, in fact, any other move) before retaliating with a deadly Flamethrower. Against Thundurus though, Nidoking has a bit more trouble to deal with it. Even if Nidoking is immune to T-Wave, it can't safely hard-switch into Thundy due to HP Ice 2HKOing it. Fortunately, in a 1v1 scenario, if Nidoking hasn't lost too much health, it can survive Thundy's HP Ice before OHKOing it with Ice Beam.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 211-250 (69.6 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
136+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoking: 170-205 (56.1 - 67.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 299-354 (100 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 239-283 (66.2 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Flamethrower vs. -1 240 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 359-424 (99.4 - 117.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO



Volcarona @ Lum Berry
Ability: Flame Body
Evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Giga Drain
- Bug Buzz

For Volcarona to deal with this core (and to preserve its opportunity to sweep the opposing team), it's preferable to face against M-Heracross in a 1v1 scenario. When that happens, Volcarona has two choices: setup with Quiver Dance (and winning against the core) on a predicted switch or use Fire Blast to get rid of M-Heracross on a predicted Rock Blast. In this case, Fire Blast is most probably the way to go as if you mispredict a switch and setup, Volcarona goes bye bye. On the other hand, if you mispredict a Rock Blast and use Fire Blast, then the consequences won't be as bad as it gets. Anyway, Volcarona puts a ton of pressure against this core as it can outspeed and OHKO M-Heracross and is immune once to T-Wave in addtion to be only 2HKOed by it.
252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Volcarona: 177-211 (56.9 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
136+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 195-235 (62.7 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (do I really need to write down Rock Blast's calc?)

252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 222-262 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 333-393 (111.3 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Mega Heracross: 356-420 (98.6 - 116.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
 
Last edited:

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Wacan Berry Manaphy: 187-220 (54.8 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Electric-weak teams can always run Wacan Berry Manaphy to mess up Thundurus, as well as any team that relies on it to check Manaphy. And of course, it outspeeds Mega Heracross and threatens it with a Scald burn, or just a straight OHKO if it's managed to set up.


Excadrill @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Power-Up Punch / Superpower

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 322-380 (107.6 - 127%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 172-203 (47.6 - 56.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus in Rain: 321-378 (107.3 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Swampert Waterfall vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross in Rain: 213-252 (59 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Activated weather sweepers can put the hurt on Thundurus while also 2HKOing Mega Heracross while boasting a T-Wave immunity.


Weavile @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick / Poison Jab / Pursuit

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Superpower / Freeze-Dry

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 250-296 (83.6 - 98.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Thundurus: 218-257 (72.9 - 85.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 175-208 (48.4 - 57.6%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 152-179 (42.1 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Strong Ice Shard users wreck Thundurus, with Weavile's going faster than Thundurus's T-Wave while Mamoswine is just immune to yellow magic while dealing heavy damage to Mega Heracross. Weavile is the more generally viable one, but Mamoswine is notable for having a drastically easier time switching into Thundurus, better rolls with Ice Shard, and the ability to 2HKO Mega Heracross with no prior damage.
 
Alright, sorry I was so late updating this. You've got until Saturday to post partners, at which point I'll post a new core.

Swear this'll be the last time I forget about this <.<


recreant was here tressed is a loser c:
 

Martin

Trolled, memed, gif’d, and—dare I say—pwn’d
is a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator

Landorus-T @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
- Hidden Power Ice / Stone Edge

Lando-T makes for a good partner to this core for a few reasons. It provides a slow U-turn, which helps get Thundurus in on things, while also baiting stuff that Thundurus beats such as Keldeo, Suicune and [insert other Water-type here]. In addition, it provides Stealth Rock to help both of these Pokémon break through stuff, and the choice between HP Ice and Stone Edge allows it to lure in and weaken Lando or to switch in on and easily KO Talonflame, which Thundurus doesn't do consistently due to it's low bulk, SR weakness and Life Orb.
 
Last edited:

Azumarill @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Aqua Jet
- Play Rough
- Knock Off

Azumarill checks sand, Mega Altaria, Volcarona, Nidoking, Mega Aerodactyl, Weavile, and Mamoswine. Everything else listed is something it can really pressure after a Belly Drum -- Mega Manectric, Talonflame, Mega Manectric, and Mega Altaria will all be pressured to revenge kill when Azu is at +6, leaving them softened up for Thundurus and/or Mega Heracross. Meanwhile, Thundurus's T-Wave support is really good support for Azumarill, and the core's ability to soften up Water- and Dragon-types is really helpful.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top