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Counter That Doubles Team #1 [Totem Vs Nollan] FIGHT!!! 1-0 Nollan

Good hustle folks, but I think these Noms could use a bit of tweaking. Remember that it's a counter pick, so really tie down those EV spreads. Make sure you live the threats and/or can put out the damage where it's needed.

You can also nominate the same Mon more than once in a round if you think the mon is right but the set isn't.
 
Revised my entry... made Togekiss Modest and gave it Dazzling Gleam to butcher Liepard and to dish more damage to Pinsir and Conkeldurr. Added a bit more evs into Defense to tank Aerilate Return better.
 
Pocket said:
Revised my entry... made Togekiss Modest and gave it Dazzling Gleam to butcher Liepard and to dish more damage to Pinsir and Conkeldurr. Added a bit more evs into Defense to tank Aerilate Return better.
Click to expand...

Should probably update your description in that case. Also, while I like Safeguard, might Roost/Safety Goggles do better on Kiss?

Pocket EDIT: I did...???
 
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Brave Bird everything:

talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind

A standard set with tweaked EVs (literally moving 4 EVs from Speed to HP) for our purposes: Given EVs outrun Liepard by 1 even with our Adamant nature so we can avoid Swagger shenanigans by just taking it out via Brave Bird's 100% chance to OHKO.

2/4 of the opposing team is weak to flying, Liepard is frail and dies to a single Brave Bird anyway, and Jellicent's only attack is crippled by getting thrashed by BB. Indeed after taking a BB, this is the situation, after Sitrus activates: 76 SpA Jellicent Water Spout (78 BP) vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 162-192 (50.9 - 60.3%), while BB recoil will do ~33% :o

2 combined Brave Birds do an absolute minimum of 542 damage, while Jellicent has 404 HP + extra 101, so yes two BBs will always kill. Setting up Trick Room is a dangerous proposition, since it means saccing Jellicent for sure, or letting something else take a thrashing. The most common Intimidate users are dealt with well by Team 1 already, particularly the biggest threat Landorus-T, as well as Rotom-W, which Kyu-b loves to eat up.

Moreover, it gives us a way to completely bypass the slowmode of Jellicent's Trick Room and threaten everything on Team 2 in the process. Flare Blitz and U-turn for reasons y'all already know. Tailwind because it can help Kanga and Kyurem against Pinsir when there's no Trick Room.
 
BLOOD TOTEM said:
Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Good game Conkeldurr
Good game Liepard, you tried hard
It's all ogre now

-Vote Sylveon, a haiku by BLOOD TOTEM
Click to expand...

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 352-415 (89.3 - 105.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

I suggest putting those HP EVs into Def. 3 out of Totem's teams utilise the defense stat for attacking, and the other still doesn't do much damage to Syvleon with Water Spout, with the 4 remainder in HP.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Sylveon: 255-301 (76.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I also recommend replacing Moonblast with Hyper Beam. There is literally no use for Moonblast over Hyper Voice when Nollan's team doesn't have Wide Guard. Hyper Beam may have use for the extra damage against Jellicent in order to stop TR going up:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 68+ SpD Jellicent: 381-448 (94.3 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO. Even if it doesn't OHKO, Water Spout is now a little tickle.

Also, replace Psyshock for HP Rock. Psyshock is good for nothing against Nollan's team, but HP Rock can OHKO Mega Pinsir, where as Hyper Voice can't, and Moonblast has only a 43.8% chance (not worth it).

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 229-270 (84.1 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.

Edit: reconsider this after the teams are finalised, as Psyshock can help picks against Sylveon like Poison-types
 
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Great suggestion, Darkmalice, but I wont dump everything into Defense, because that would compromise its overall bulk. 68 HP / 188 Def already gets the job done while providing some additional special bulk

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 68 HP / 188 Def Sylveon: 274-324 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
Pocket said:
Great suggestion, Darkmalice, but I wont dump everything into Defense, because that would compromise its overall bulk. 68 HP / 188 Def already gets the job done while providing some additional special bulk

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 68 HP / 188 Def Sylveon: 274-324 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Click to expand...

I thought of that too, but I figured that because 3 of Nollan's teams are physical attackers, and the other is still soundly beaten by Sylveon and has other duties to perform than straight out attacking, a full 252 Def would be better. Of course, the next two Pokemon may change that, particularly considering that Aegislash tends to be better dealt by special attackers on average due to King's Shield messing with some physical attackers.

Also, why 68 HP / 188 Def? 188 HP / 68 Def enables you to always survive Mega Pinsir's Return; I don't see the point of going halfway between max HP and max Def.

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 188 HP / 68 Def Sylveon: 319-376 (84.3 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
OK, as promised I deliver u:

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Regenerator


-Spore
-Rage Powder
-Giga Drain
-Protect

The way I see it, the easily biggest threat to Nollan's team at the moment is Aegislash, and this set is basically designed to make Aegislash _never die_. First, it removes Nollan's ability to employ his Trick Room option, because amoong+tr=ow. Second, it basically thrashes my previous pick in Liepard. Aegislash is immune to fake out and fp doesn't break its subs in Shield form. Meanwhile, once its sub is up, instead of being turned into a shitting duck by Liepard, Encore is safely Rage Powdered away, allowing Aegislash to continue to bend Nollan over a table while Amoonguss can simply switch out or w/e. The same works with supporting Cube of course, and supporting Kanga for that matter.

I'm absolutely convinced that this team needs a Rage Powder / FM user because they are simply the best Liepard cockblocker. Pocket's Togekiss is also a good pick. Pros of togekiss are: better offensive presence, can live a pinsir return. Pros of Amoonguss are: absolutely shits on Jellicent and the TR option as a whole (SHOULDA CHOSE TALON U FUCKERZ), provides reliable recovery, has protect which is always nifty, can "ohko" anything with spore under TR. I think Pocket could improve his pick by replacing dazzle with either roost or protect (dazzle isn't necessary at all). As nollan's next pick is likely tran, i'd like to avoid something (like sylv, or talon) that is absolutely ruined by it. At least Amoonguss can spore.

EVs live both eruptran full hp eruption and lo if conk ice punch, probably the two strongest attacks nollans team can throw at this except mpinsir return (cant even live 1% of the time with 252 bold so)
 
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Pwnemon said:
I'm absolutely convinced that this team needs a Rage Powder / FM user because they are simply the best Liepard cockblocker. Pocket's Togekiss is also a good pick. Pros of togekiss are: better offensive presence, can live a pinsir return. Pros of Amoonguss are: absolutely shits on Jellicent and the TR option as a whole (SHOULDA CHOSE TALON U FUCKERZ), provides reliable recovery, has protect which is always nifty, can "ohko" anything with spore under TR. I think Pocket could improve his pick by replacing dazzle with either roost or protect (dazzle isn't necessary at all).
Click to expand...
Good point, Pwnemon; reverted Togekiss's Dazzling Gleam back to Protect, which comes in handy to block Fake Out and avoid damage when necessary.
 
Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Good game Conkeldurr
Good game Liepard, you tried hard
It's all ogre now

-Vote Sylveon, a haiku by BLOOD TOTEM

togekiss.gif

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Follow Me
- Protect
- Safeguard
- Air Slash

Togekiss's Air Slash flinches Conkeldurr and Jellicent and does a shit load to Pinsir. Dazzling Gleam destroys Liepard. Sets up Safeguard to protect the team from Jellicent's Wisp and Liepard's Swagger. Follow Me redirects Fighting and Dark STAB (doesn't redirect Fake Out and Feint, though) from Conkeldurr and Liepard. The beauty of this set is that Follow Me has higher priority than Prankster Encore, so Liepard cannot prevent Togekiss from doing its #1 job of Follow Me spam (aka Liepard aint getting to our powerhouses). Togekiss complements well with Kangaskhan, Aegislash, and Kyurem-B, absorbing Fighting-, Dark-, and Dragon-type moves for the team, as well as keeping the rest of the team free from status afflictions.

some calcs:

60+ SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 240-284 (86.6 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Togekiss: 211-250 (56.5 - 67%) -- ~19% chance to 2HKO after Sitrus Berry

60+ SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 32 HP / 96 SpD Conkeldurr: 272-324 (75.7 - 90.2%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Life Orb recoil; 75% chance to OHKO after 2 LO recoils

jellicent.png

Jellicent @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Trick Room
- Recover

What better way to fuck with nollan's team than by giving the blood totem a pringles man of his own? Hint there is no better way. Jelli beats the living shit out of everything on nollan's team and not to mention we're going to capitalize on him having such a physically based team by changing things up by adding this sexy ass beast.

Conkelderp: lol only damaging move is ice punch which jelli laughs off like no one's business.
Jelli: All it really does is burn our jelly which our jelli doesn't really mind and not to mention we have our own TR as a counter measure to nollan's tr.
Hitlerpard: Impossible to counter such a (BAN ME PLEASE) set but jelli does well against liepard by avoiding a 2hko after sitrus + swagger boosted foul play while being able to burn hitlerpard to reduce foul play damage.
Pinsir: Admittedly gives it some trouble due to return being strong as fuck but jelli avoids getting kod by any combination of double attacking that nollan can dish + return. Jelli can then burn it in return and thus cripple it for the rest of the game or set up our own tr to get rid of the fact that pinsir outspeeds fucking everything totem already has.

Overall adding in a jelli of our own lets us dick with all of nollan's current team while providing support to the team via burns against his heavily physically based team and is able to set up our own tr and/or remove nollans so it allows us to be a semi tr team which matches up well. HAIL FUCKING PRINGLES

Brave Bird everything:

talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 84 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind

A standard set with tweaked EVs (literally moving 4 EVs from Speed to HP) for our purposes: Given EVs outrun Liepard by 1 even with our Adamant nature so we can avoid Swagger shenanigans by just taking it out via Brave Bird's 100% chance to OHKO.

2/4 of the opposing team is weak to flying, Liepard is frail and dies to a single Brave Bird anyway, and Jellicent's only attack is crippled by getting thrashed by BB. Indeed after taking a BB, this is the situation, after Sitrus activates: 76 SpA Jellicent Water Spout (78 BP) vs. 84 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 162-192 (50.9 - 60.3%), while BB recoil will do ~33% :o

2 combined Brave Birds do an absolute minimum of 542 damage, while Jellicent has 404 HP + extra 101, so yes two BBs will always kill. Setting up Trick Room is a dangerous proposition, since it means saccing Jellicent for sure, or letting something else take a thrashing. The most common Intimidate users are dealt with well by Team 1 already, particularly the biggest threat Landorus-T, as well as Rotom-W, which Kyu-b loves to eat up.

Moreover, it gives us a way to completely bypass the slowmode of Jellicent's Trick Room and threaten everything on Team 2 in the process. Flare Blitz and U-turn for reasons y'all already know. Tailwind because it can help Kanga and Kyurem against Pinsir when there's no Trick Room.

OK, as promised I deliver u:

Amoonguss @ Black Sludge
Regenerator
Calm
252 HP / 64 Def / 192 SpD
-Spore
-Rage Powder
-Giga Drain
-Protect

The way I see it, the easily biggest threat to Nollan's team at the moment is Aegislash, and this set is basically designed to make Aegislash _never die_. First, it removes Nollan's ability to employ his Trick Room option, because amoong+tr=ow. Second, it basically thrashes my previous pick in Liepard. Aegislash is immune to fake out and fp doesn't break its subs in Shield form. Meanwhile, once its sub is up, instead of being turned into a shitting duck by Liepard, Encore is safely Rage Powdered away, allowing Aegislash to continue to bend Nollan over a table while Amoonguss can simply switch out or w/e. The same works with supporting Cube of course, and supporting Kanga for that matter.

I'm absolutely convinced that this team needs a Rage Powder / FM user because they are simply the best Liepard cockblocker. Pocket's Togekiss is also a good pick. Pros of togekiss are: better offensive presence, can live a pinsir return. Pros of Amoonguss are: absolutely shits on Jellicent and the TR option as a whole (SHOULDA CHOSE TALON U FUCKERZ), provides reliable recovery, has protect which is always nifty, can "ohko" anything with spore under TR. I think Pocket could improve his pick by replacing dazzle with either roost or protect (dazzle isn't necessary at all). As nollan's next pick is likely tran, i'd like to avoid something (like sylv, or talon) that is absolutely ruined by it. At least Amoonguss can spore.

EVs live both eruptran full hp eruption and lo if conk ice punch, probably the two strongest attacks nollans team can throw at this except mpinsir return (cant even live 1% of the time with 252 bold so)

Noms are done. You all have 2 days to vote. Make them count folks.

No self votes
 
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Pocket

It was actually Pwnemon's nomination that convinced me that Pocket's was the best lol. They're right that a redirector is quite necessary, but I think Togekiss fulfills this role more efficiently because it has better synergy with the other members of the team (Sponge Fighting for Kyu/MegK, Dragon for Kyu, Dark / Ground for Aegi) Amoonguss Sleep is useful but it's not as if the opponent has the option of using full TR at this point so we don't have as much to worry about.
 
Chandelure lost earlier, but let's go with it now!
chandelure.gif

Chandelure @ Life Orb
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 132 HP / 252 SAtk / 124 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Overheat
- Will-o-Wisp
- Protect

EVs outrun Kyurem-B by a point, and do this: 252+ SpA Life Orb Chandelure Overheat vs. 228 HP / 28 SpD Kyurem-B: 348-411 (77.6 - 91.7%)
So Kyu-B can't just hide behind its Subs and Protects, since based Infiltrator Overheat will let us land the KO even after Lefties gives some recovery in most scenarios. Meanwhile, against Aegislash, we can just use 252+ SpA Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 283-338 (87.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO, which is good enough to KO through the Subs as well, without needing to lower SpA.

As to the two things without Sub, Will-o-Wisp is used to dick with Kangaskhan. Overheat spells trouble for even Togekiss too: 252+ SpA Life Orb Chandelure Overheat vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 292-344 (78.2 - 92.2%)

I considered putting Taunt in the last slot to dick with Togekiss even more, but I settled on Protect, which enables us to stall our own Trick Room turns if necessary, since we need to be able to outrun Kyu-B and Aegislash to beat them and being outrun by FlinchKiss would be annoying too.

Defensively, the remaining 132 HP conveniently lets us always live an Earth Power from Kyurem-B as well as our own Life Orb recoil as we Overheat it to oblivion. 252+ SpA Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 224-264 (76.1 - 89.7%), doing 264 max, along with our LO recoil of 29, leaving exactly 1 HP left over. So against Kyurem-B, at least, Trick Room still being up isn't an auto-lose scenario.
 
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