Resource Creative and Underrated Sets: ORAS Edition (NO SHITTY GIMMICKS, Read Post #419)

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Ok coolio I guess I'm just gonna repost this from my post in the OU Research Project since it's too early to post it there.

Meet Volcarona, the burn factory. This set plays a lot like a SubSeed set, only it has a much larger impact on the game (think Chesnaught, but with a long lasting impact and a more exploitable weakness)



Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Bold Nature
-Fiery Dance
-Substitute
-Roost
-Will-o-Wisp

While entirely walled by Heatran, Fiery Dance is the only attack you really NEED. It has the really nice bonus of boosting your own power, and helping you overpower resists late game. The combination of Flame Body and Will-o-Wisp is really, REALLY effective in spreading burns. Flame Body is essentially a free Scald effect on any contact move, and WoW is great for crippling physical attackers. The real belle of the ball on this set, though, is Substitute. By Subbing on switches, you provide yourself an excellent opportunity to draw in the things that scare Volcarona out. This gives you an opportunity to burn cripple them via WoW. In my replays below, you'll see that Substitute is a large factor in the success I've had with this set.

Note: This set does not alleviate Volcarona's issues with Stealth Rocks. You are STILL going to need a Defogger in order to get the most out of this set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-213006778
So this first replay is actually the most recent one, but it's probably the best replay despite ending in a forfeit. Basically, Volcarona was able to spread a burn on Scizor via Flame Body and then lure and burn the opposing Terrakion (thanks to that nasty Sub WoW combo I talked about).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212965035
This replay shows how Volcarona can really wear down opposing Rotom-W with a little fortune and Fiery Dance. While it's not entirely reliable, you can pretty easily PP stall Hydro Pump with Substitute and Roost (iirc, Hydro does about 76% max). At turn 25, you see the aforementioned Sub WoW on a lured Landorus-Therian.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212969203
Basically just more of the above. Early on, I tried to Sub on the Raikou, but I couldn't get the move change before the turn happened. All that would have done was allowed me to WoW the Medicham rather than burn it with Flame Body. You can also see how Volcarona lures in the BD Azu and neuters it. Not the BEST replay, but it works in the context of this post.

I'm aware that these three replays are low ladder replays; I haven't touched the suspect ladder, so I tried to save the replays that were against legitimate teams. I think that the EV spread could possibly be optimized to tank as much of the relevant metagame as possible, but so far this one works for me.
What EV spread does this Volc run?
 
Ok coolio I guess I'm just gonna repost this from my post in the OU Research Project since it's too early to post it there.

Meet Volcarona, the burn factory. This set plays a lot like a SubSeed set, only it has a much larger impact on the game (think Chesnaught, but with a long lasting impact and a more exploitable weakness)



Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/ 124 SpDef
-Fiery Dance
-Substitute
-Roost
-Will-o-Wisp

While entirely walled by Heatran, Fiery Dance is the only attack you really NEED. It has the really nice bonus of boosting your own power, and helping you overpower resists late game. The combination of Flame Body and Will-o-Wisp is really, REALLY effective in spreading burns. Flame Body is essentially a free Scald effect on any contact move, and WoW is great for crippling physical attackers. The real belle of the ball on this set, though, is Substitute. By Subbing on switches, you provide yourself an excellent opportunity to draw in the things that scare Volcarona out. This gives you an opportunity to burn cripple them via WoW. In my replays below, you'll see that Substitute is a large factor in the success I've had with this set.

Note: This set does not alleviate Volcarona's issues with Stealth Rocks. You are STILL going to need a Defogger in order to get the most out of this set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-213006778
So this first replay is actually the most recent one, but it's probably the best replay despite ending in a forfeit. Basically, Volcarona was able to spread a burn on Scizor via Flame Body and then lure and burn the opposing Terrakion (thanks to that nasty Sub WoW combo I talked about).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212965035
This replay shows how Volcarona can really wear down opposing Rotom-W with a little fortune and Fiery Dance. While it's not entirely reliable, you can pretty easily PP stall Hydro Pump with Substitute and Roost (iirc, Hydro does about 67.5% max). At turn 25, you see the aforementioned Sub WoW on a lured Landorus-Therian.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212969203
Basically just more of the above. Early on, I tried to Sub on the Raikou, but I couldn't get the move change before the turn happened. All that would have done was allowed me to WoW the Medicham rather than burn it with Flame Body. You can also see how Volcarona lures in the BD Azu and neuters it. Not the BEST replay, but it works in the context of this post.

I'm aware that these three replays are low ladder replays; I haven't touched the suspect ladder, so I tried to save the replays that were against legitimate teams. I think that the EV spread could possibly be optimized to tank as much of the relevant metagame as possible, but so far this one works for me.
Dude this is disgusting. I love it. I was thinking of using volc's bulky set but I think I'm going to give this a rigorious testing
 
Ok coolio I guess I'm just gonna repost this from my post in the OU Research Project since it's too early to post it there.

Meet Volcarona, the burn factory. This set plays a lot like a SubSeed set, only it has a much larger impact on the game (think Chesnaught, but with a long lasting impact and a more exploitable weakness)



Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP/136 Def/ 124 SpDef
-Fiery Dance
-Substitute
-Roost
-Will-o-Wisp

While entirely walled by Heatran, Fiery Dance is the only attack you really NEED. It has the really nice bonus of boosting your own power, and helping you overpower resists late game. The combination of Flame Body and Will-o-Wisp is really, REALLY effective in spreading burns. Flame Body is essentially a free Scald effect on any contact move, and WoW is great for crippling physical attackers. The real belle of the ball on this set, though, is Substitute. By Subbing on switches, you provide yourself an excellent opportunity to draw in the things that scare Volcarona out. This gives you an opportunity to burn cripple them via WoW. In my replays below, you'll see that Substitute is a large factor in the success I've had with this set.

Note: This set does not alleviate Volcarona's issues with Stealth Rocks. You are STILL going to need a Defogger in order to get the most out of this set.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-213006778
So this first replay is actually the most recent one, but it's probably the best replay despite ending in a forfeit. Basically, Volcarona was able to spread a burn on Scizor via Flame Body and then lure and burn the opposing Terrakion (thanks to that nasty Sub WoW combo I talked about).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212965035
This replay shows how Volcarona can really wear down opposing Rotom-W with a little fortune and Fiery Dance. While it's not entirely reliable, you can pretty easily PP stall Hydro Pump with Substitute and Roost (iirc, Hydro does about 67.5% max). At turn 25, you see the aforementioned Sub WoW on a lured Landorus-Therian.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-212969203
Basically just more of the above. Early on, I tried to Sub on the Raikou, but I couldn't get the move change before the turn happened. All that would have done was allowed me to WoW the Medicham rather than burn it with Flame Body. You can also see how Volcarona lures in the BD Azu and neuters it. Not the BEST replay, but it works in the context of this post.

I'm aware that these three replays are low ladder replays; I haven't touched the suspect ladder, so I tried to save the replays that were against legitimate teams. I think that the EV spread could possibly be optimized to tank as much of the relevant metagame as possible, but so far this one works for me.
I think you should optimize the EV spread by adding 24 EVs to Speed and give it a Timid nature, this way you outspeed max speed base 70s such as Bisharp/Breloom and even Honchkrow which is base 71.
 
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I think you should optimize the EV spread by adding 20 EVs to Speed and give it a Timid nature, this way you outspeed max speed base 70s such as Bisharp/Breloom and even Honchkrow which is base 71.
Thanks--I think beating Breloom is a good idea, as it threatens the KO with Rock Tomb. I'll edit that in.
 
I've been testing out this Heatran. What do you guys think?



Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Dragon Pulse/HP Ice/HP Grass/HP Electric

This set is specifically designed to bait and kill Tenta and Keldeo, but works against Megaleye and Azu. It attracts the said Pokemon and hits it with Magma Storm, then kills it with Earth Power. Flash Cannon or HP Grass. It's worked so far, but that could be just the surprise factor. It's not as bulky as it could be, and the speed boost only lets it outspeed a couple threats it normally wouldn't (like jolly azu) You could also run 252 spe and outspeed non-jolly non-scarf lando-t, but at that point it's better to switch out anyway. Dragon Pulse works for better damage, but you can run HP Ice to surprise Garch and Lando. Good teammates include Latis and other things that can soak up water and ground attacks, so Slowbro can help w/ that.
 
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I've been testing out this Heatran. What do you guys think?



Heatran @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 216 HP / 252 SpA / 40 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Dragon Pulse/HP Water/HP Ice

This set is specifically designed to bait and kill Tenta, but works against Megaleye and Azu. It attracts the said Pokemon and hits it with Magma Storm, then kills it with Earth Power or Flash Cannon. It's worked so far, but that could be just the surprise factor. It's not as bulky as it could be, and the speed boost only lets it outspeed a couple threats it normally wouldn't (like jolly azu) You could also run 252 spe and outspeed non-jolly non-scarf lando-t, but at that point it's better to switch out anyway. Dragon Pulse works for better damage, but you can run HP Water or Ice to surprise Exadrill or Garch and Lando. Good teammates include Latis and other things that can soak up water and ground attacks, so Slowbro can help w/ that.

"you can run HP Water or Ice to surprise Exadrill" O.o why would an excadrill switchin on a heatran. Also, hp Ice is 10x better than hp water.
 
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Not sure if this has been posted as i've only skimmed through the last few pages, sorry if it has been.



Latios/Latias (M) @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Defog/Roost
- Psycho Shift


Not really much to explain, Keldeo burns you with scald, you then Psycho Shift the burn onto the Ttar / Bisharp / Ferro / Lati check. Nice for Toxics vs stall and Para vs Thundy-I offence as well. Overall a nice option as a 4th move on Lati@s. Also lets you be more reckless switching Lati into burns/Toxics which is neat.
 

p2

Banned deucer.
Wouldn't it just be better with HP Grass, as it hits Rotom-W who is probably one of Heatrans most common switchins
 
Or, a better idea would be to use any other item besides Assault Vest so you can hit Rotom-W and other Water-types like Keldeo with Toxic.
Seriously, dont use AV Heatran. Heatran's support moves are too valuable to give up.
Funnily enough, AV Heatran was a serious topic of discussion amongst possible users of Assault Vest during the dawn of XY. It has a niche, partially also due to it being very unexpected and uncommon.
 

boltsandbombers

i'm sorry mr. man
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Funnily enough, AV Heatran was a serious topic of discussion amongst possible users of Assault Vest during the dawn of XY. It has a niche, partially also due to it being very unexpected and uncommon.
Dude, AV was considered for just about anything in early XY. In no way shape or form does AV Heatran have a niche in this metagame. If you want to use a Heatran set that is unexpected or uncommon use something like Chople Berry or Magma Storm, both fun and viable sets.
 

AM

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Ok so it's come to my attention that some of these posts aren't adhering to the rules of this thread and been doing so for quite some time. Specifically it caters to the shitty gimmicks section.
Rules:
  • NO SHITTY GIMMICKS. The title says it all. They don't add any positives to the discussion and only derail the thread. These posts may be subject to being deleted. Repeated offenses may result in further action. Just because this thread isn't heavily modded doesn't mean its okay to break this rule.
  • Make sure the set is actually underrated. There's no need to post a set that everyone and their mom uses. These posts are subject to the same consequences as shitty gimmicks.
  • This is for ORAS OU. XY OU sets should go in ginganinja's thread here
  • Multiple replays are now required for new and creative sets.
This is being changed from here on out. Moderation will be heavier on this thread to not fill up the thread with shitty gimmicks on the level of Scald Gyarados and some of the posts that have been going on for quite awhile. Quality replays are now a requirement if you plan on posting in this thread in regards to a set and by quality not some low ladder replay with a guy you faced using Ashes Kanto team or w/e nonsense low ladder is situated with. If your set doesn't have two quality replays minimum to back up your set, your post will be deleted, no matter how amazing you and your mother think the set may be.

So if there is anything to take away from this, post sets that have worked in practice against competent players, not the guy you 6-0'd with your Scarf Aggron or w/e mind numbing concoction you thought of while thinking "oh man I'm such an innovator, nobody is gonna see this Specs HP Ice Scizor, Lando-T has nothing on me". That's really it just use some common sense people.
 
Ok so it's come to my attention that some of these posts aren't adhering to the rules of this thread and been doing so for quite some time. Specifically it caters to the shitty gimmicks section.

This is being changed from here on out. Moderation will be heavier on this thread to not fill up the thread with shitty gimmicks on the level of Scald Gyarados and some of the posts that have been going on for quite awhile. Quality replays are now a requirement if you plan on posting in this thread in regards to a set and by quality not some low ladder replay with a guy you faced using Ashes Kanto team or w/e nonsense low ladder is situated with. If your set doesn't have two quality replays minimum to back up your set, your post will be deleted, no matter how amazing you and your mother think the set may be.

So if there is anything to take away from this, post sets that have worked in practice against competent players, not the guy you 6-0'd with your Scarf Aggron or w/e mind numbing concoction you thought of while thinking "oh man I'm such an innovator, nobody is gonna see this Specs HP Ice Scizor, Lando-T has nothing on me". That's really it just use some common sense people.
The term "shitty gimmick" is so objective. I don't think people are here trying to bog down the thread with stupid sets, it's for analysis and discussion of said sets. While it makes total sense to require replays and heavier modding, don't attribute it to all the people posting. It's a poorly worded rule (although I recognize there isn't really a good way to word it).

Wouldn't it just be better with HP Grass, as it hits Rotom-W who is probably one of Heatrans most common switchins
That makes more sense than HP Electric, which I was running for Talonflame, but Talon switches out against him and HP Grass makes more sense for Rotom.

Or, a better idea would be to use any other item besides Assault Vest so you can hit Rotom-W and other Water-types like Keldeo with Toxic.
Seriously, dont use AV Heatran. Heatran's support moves are too valuable to give up.
The point of the set is to surprise the Keldeo (or Rotom-W) with an HP Grass/electric and switch out on the Hydro. AV allows that to live, and you can even run wish support to extend its lifespan.
What does AV offer that outweighs using Leftovers or Air Balloon plus Stealth Rocks, Taunt, Toxic, Roar or hell--even WoW? I'd rather have team support over tanking like one extra Draco Meteor.
It's for tanking the Hydros. This is a sweeping set that can surprise and cripple your opponents counter before switching out.
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
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The term "shitty gimmick" is so objective. I don't think people are here trying to bog down the thread with stupid sets, it's for analysis and discussion of said sets. While it makes total sense to require replays and heavier modding, don't attribute it to all the people posting. It's a poorly worded rule (although I recognize there isn't really a good way to word it)
You're right, the term shitty gimmick is objective. Is easy to distinguish a legitimately effective set from a set that diminishes overall effectiveness of the mon as a whole. Whether or not people are trying to bog down the thread or not is irrelevant; what is relevant is the fact that they are because they think of sets and decide to post it without significant evidence of it working at a decently high level of play. This is why he made the announcement, and as the thread owner I fully agree with everything he said. If people want to prove that their sets aren't gimmicks, then all they have to do is back up their claims with decent replays, nothing more, nothing less.
 

AM

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The term "shitty gimmick" is so objective. I don't think people are here trying to bog down the thread with stupid sets, it's for analysis and discussion of said sets. While it makes total sense to require replays and heavier modding, don't attribute it to all the people posting. It's a poorly worded rule (although I recognize there isn't really a good way to word it).
The objectivity of this went out the window when I get word that people just use the thread for cheap chuckles because of these sets. The discussion for the most part has just been two things 1. very few actual underrated sets that have a legitimate purpose 2. sets that fall under the shitty gimmick aspect that create half page long complaints of utter nonsense. A comment by Aragorn the King that can be found here is an example of what happens when these sets arise and derails discussion of legitimate sets. This may not be attributed to everyone but it was clearly enough people not using common sense that prompted a response from myself. Do not blame the definition of said rule in the OP and use that as a case that actions that don't adhere to it are justifiable.

Also what Clone said right before I posted this. Replays are required, please tone down the wall of calcs that don't prove anything legitimate, and that'll be all. End of debate.
 
When you say replays are required... Can these be in game replay codes against other experienced OU players? Just asking to see whether I have to constantly climb the ladder or not.
 

Clone

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When you say replays are required... Can these be in game replay codes against other experienced OU players? Just asking to see whether I have to constantly climb the ladder or not.
Generally anything below 1500 on the ladder isn't gonna cut it. However, if you have friends that you play with who are relatively good, feel free to post those. However, bear in mind that I, or any of the OU moderators, have the right to reject anything if we feel the replays or set are not showcasing anything notable.
 
The objectivity of this went out the window when I get word that people just use the thread for cheap chuckles because of these sets. The discussion for the most part has just been two things 1. very few actual underrated sets that have a legitimate purpose 2. sets that fall under the shitty gimmick aspect that create half page long complaints of utter nonsense. A comment by Aragorn the King that can be found here is an example of what happens when these sets arise and derails discussion of legitimate sets. This may not be attributed to everyone but it was clearly enough people not using common sense that prompted a response from myself. Do not blame the definition of said rule in the OP and use that as a case that actions that don't adhere to it are justifiable.

Also what Clone said right before I posted this. Replays are required, please tone down the wall of calcs that don't prove anything legitimate, and that'll be all. End of debate.
I completely agree with you. It just might reduce the number of sets that appear on the thread... Which makes a lot of sense. After scrolling through some more previous messages, it looks less like people posting creative sets, and more of people posting "gimmicks". (My own set is on the brink of that in retrospect) I guess I'm defining a gimmick as something that doesn't really improve gameplay or provide tactical advantage outside of a surprise attack. I still think the wording is a little too loose, but there is really no good way to define it and it is entirely based on a case-by-case basis, so I'm going to leave this ugly problem for you guys who have a better idea of how the site works to deal with.

Quick question: When a suspect test is in place, should I ladder inside or outside the suspect test? (for instance, if a Poke functions well against Megagross and megagross gets banned, do you have to ladder in standard OU to re-prove it's worth?)
 

AM

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I completely agree with you. It just might reduce the number of sets that appear on the thread... Which makes a lot of sense. After scrolling through some more previous messages, it looks less like people posting creative sets, and more of people posting "gimmicks". (My own set is on the brink of that in retrospect) I guess I'm defining a gimmick as something that doesn't really improve gameplay or provide tactical advantage outside of a surprise attack. I still think the wording is a little too loose, but there is really no good way to define it and it is entirely based on a case-by-case basis, so I'm going to leave this ugly problem for you guys who have a better idea of how the site works to deal with.

Quick question: When a suspect test is in place, should I ladder inside or outside the suspect test? (for instance, if a Poke functions well against Megagross and megagross gets banned, do you have to ladder in standard OU to re-prove it's worth?)
I don't think it really matters as far as what ladder it is, suspect or not, as long as it's high enough to establish that it actually worked decently. Normally 1500+ is a good range because it'll always accommodate the regular ladder and in a matter of days the suspect one as well. I wouldn't get too caught up if the set works in a certain meta-game or not because the meta always changes. The replay and your reasoning you provide should be establish what it does anyways so if people know it's to handle a specific threat that is gone they can just take that into account when using it. Also tournament settings as long as their half decent are good for replays, think official, unofficial, and in room tournaments. Not hard to tell when a replay is....less than stellar. So yeah that's my personal take on the matter.
 
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / as much Def and Spe as you'd like
Impish Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Endure

This is the Garchomp set I use on occasion and it's very good at wearing down physical attackers, think Metagross and Lopunny. You simply switch in and follow up like usual and if they put you in kill range you just click Endure for an extra 30% or so damage, which can stack up pretty quickly and can let you stall with Toxic for an extra turn. It has helped/saved me in quite a few matches, but I don't have any replays coz I don't bother to save em.
 

bludz

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Disclaimer: I don't think this is an amazing set but it is definitely not used much if at all and has decent use as a late game cleaner which can also weaken stuff early game since it can Roost up.


Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast
- Agility
- Roost

Alternate EV spreads:
108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe with a Modest Nature allows you to outspeed Scarf Lando-T after Agility

160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe Modest outspeeds Mega Aero/Alakazam after Agility (this also outspeeds +1 Jolly Gyarados)

80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe Timid outspeeds scarf base 110s such as Gengar after Agility

Thanks to its nice typing, Altaria can set up an Agility fairly easily. If you set up late game, not everything has to be in OHKO range because of Altaria's nice bulk, as long as most things are OHKO'd and a select threat or two is 2HKO'd without being able to deal too much back, it can sweep. I do think more power with a Modest Nature would be nice, but I'm running Timid so that I don't get bopped by Bisharp or other Altarias and also so that I can outspeed threats such as Sand Rush Excadrill and Kingdra in their respective weathers after an Agility. My team is kinda weak to Rain and I set up my own sand so that's why I made that choice, but I think Modest could be decent as well.

Replays:
Neither of these are great matches but they do showcase the power of Agility Altaria. I regret not saving the replay from a PS OU room tournament that I won as that also showed its power although it didn't finish the game for me.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-214253943
I admit this guy's team was a little weird (LO Talonflame lol) but this was not low ladder. You do see though that a DD Altaria would have failed to sweep because his Keldeo had Icy Wind.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215264657
This guy didn't play great but his team was pretty weak to Agility Altaria so I probably would have been able to set up a sweep anyway by sacking something to his Keldeo. Timid Hyper Voice 2HKOs Gyarados if he chooses not to Mega Evolve and he cannot OHKO back so I had it in the bag.

Edit: oh yeah I also regret missing out on a sweep of a Rain Team where I lost a 50/50 otherwise it woulda been epic. :(
 
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