Cross Evolution (now with Viability Rankings!)

[dsm77773]

So, here's a recent test:

Poliwrath (Shelgon) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Dragon Claw
- Brick Break
- Poison Jab

Stats: 90/125/130/80/90/30

The idea for this one is pretty simple. Come in on something that can't threaten you (such as Water-types lacking Ice Beam) and boost up with Power-Up Punch from there. Not much else to say, really; the set itself is pretty self-explanatory. Water Absorb is chosen both because it gives healing and because weather teams are practically non-existent. Dragon/Fighting is a cool defensive typing, and it's a pretty good offensive typing. Fairies wall your STABs, but you have Poison Jab. Feel free to provide thoughts/opinions!

Stats aren't impressive but I do think it can work. However, Shelgon x Gallade has much better 95/185/130/60/110/80 stats while getting Drain Punch (really, why doesn't Poliwrath get Drain Punch?), the same typing, and Justified instead of Water Absorb, so I think it could do the same set but better. You'll have to give up either PuP or Poison Jab for Drain Punch tho.
And as always, my tests. Unless stated I didn't came up with the idea.

all the Scythers

The classic Gyarados set is underwhelming, while it has really high stats, it suffers from its poor typing and terrible Weavile syndrome that prevents it from threatening a lot of walls such as Doublade, Munchlax or Gligar (without Waterfall). However, Scyther has a lot of potential sets that are monstruous, and also there's Stocke's defensive Scyther x Escavalier which is pretty good.

Breloom (Scyther) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Bug Bite
- Spore
Stats: 70/200/100/75/80/140
Typing: Bug/Fighting
At +2, even Gligar is pressured and maybe overwhelmed, taking as much as 48% from Bug Bite depending on its spread. Scyther x Breloom's typing also allows it to check Sneasel x Breloom by resisting Mach Punch and OHKOing it with its own. Spore the first counter, SD on the switch, then sweep with that high 200 base Attack. Really good set.

Mienshao (Scyther) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Aerial Ace
Stats: 90/150/90/95/90/145
Typing: Bug/Flying
This one's interesting. The idea is to use the U-turn + Regenerator combo. Offensive Regenerator is also underrated, as Regenerator allows Scyther x Mienshao to negate LO recoil and thus have a longer lifespan than Scyther x Breloom despite the former's horrid typing. Most of the time you just Fake Out followed by U-turn to gain momentum, but in case you need to directly attack the foe you have HJK, which is stronger than STABed X-Scissor while hitting common Pokémon such as Magneton, Munchlax and Klang. This set's main flaws come from its aforementioned horrible offensive and defensive typing, particularly that nasty x4 SR weakness, that really hurts a Pokémon that loves to come in and out constantly.

Excadrill (Scyther) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Roost
Stats: 120/160/100/75/100/125
Typing: Bug/Steel
This set has higher bulk than all other offensive Scyther sets, while having a good Bug/Steel typing that allow for more set-up opportunities together with Lum Berry. Mold Breaker is another plus, allowing this set to bypass Magneton's Levitate and Munchlax's Unaware when they're crossed with Flygon and Quagsire, respectively. STAB Iron Head + EQ is also better coverage than Bug/Flying, and both moves have decent BPs, unlike Scyther x Gyarados and Scyther x Mienshao's Aerial Ace.

Other

Crawdaunt (Sneasel) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Pursuit
- Low Kick
Stats: 75/135/75/75/95/135
Typing: Dark
This set is more dedicated to wallbreaking than the more common Breloom one. Nothing really enjoys switching into Banded Adaptability STAB Knock Off, either because they're 2HKOed or hate losing their item. In fact this set has one of the, if not the strongest, Knock Off in the metagame. Adaptability Pursuit is another bonus, but sadly there isn't much to Pursuit trap in Cross Evolution, where both Ghost and Psychic-types (especially Psychic-types) are rare. Icicle Crash is not STAB anymore but it is still there for that sweet Ice coverage (especially for Gligar which is everywhere). Low Kick completes the coverage by hitting Steel-types harder than Knock Off does, and 2HKOing Munchlax x Quagsire. While this set 2HKOes a good portion of the meta, it also has a nasty habit of missing OHKOs, which is bad news for such a frail Pokémon.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
For a change, using Primal Kyogre was my idea. This thing is a monstruous wallbreaker, while certainly slow and somewhat physically frail, Primal Kyogre can take weak hits on the special side and then proceed to wreck walls. Like, look at these calcs:
Unboosted:
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 124 SpD Magneton (Flygon) in Heavy Rain: 336-396 (92.5 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Scyther (Escavalier) in Heavy Rain: 225-265 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh in Heavy Rain: 504-594 (121.4 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Munchlax (Quagsire) in Heavy Rain: 313-369 (56.6 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Finneon (Milotic): 202-238 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Boosted:
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Pumpkaboo-Super (Chansey): 338-398 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Scyther in Heavy Rain: 336-396 (83.3 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou (Milotic) in Heavy Rain: 233-274 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Ninjask (Krabby) @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost / Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
Stats: 60/150/45/45/45/170
Typing: Water/Flying
Meant to be a decently powered early-game wallbreaker or a terrifting late-game sweeper. The only move you really click is Crabhammer, rest are fillers. Krabby x Ninjask is blazing fast outspeeding everything up to base 150s (Scyther x Breloom, Deoxys-A) with an Adamant Nature and at +0. You can opt for Speed Boost to outspeed the entire meta at +1 and increase your chances of a late-game sweep, or Infiltrator if you feel 439 Speed is enough for you. Priority is horrible for this set though, as it has pathetic 60/45/45 bulk and a bad defensive typing, even coming with a SR weakness. Krabby x Ninjask is decent, but not great.

Gallade (Rhydon) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Ice Punch
- Swords Dance / Ice Punch
Stats: 135/220/150/45/105/70
Typing: Ground/Fighting
Rhydon x Gallade was forgotten in favor of the Beedrill set, may I ask why? This thing has 592 Attack, SD, and Fighting-type STAB moves to dispatch Munchlax x Quagsire (the best Unaware by far). Ground/Fighting is cool offensively and defensively it lacks all the weaknesses provided by a Rock typing, also 135/150/105 bulk is decent when uninvested. You can pull off Double Dance sets to defeat a wide variety of playstyle or replace one set-up move (since Cross Evolution is a balance-dominated metagame I'd drop Rock Polish) for Ice Punch to prevent Gligar and Pumpkaboo from walling you.

Thoughts?

 

[FALCOWNPAUNCH!]

Stats aren't impressive but I do think it can work. However, Shelgon x Gallade has much better 95/185/130/60/110/80 stats while getting Drain Punch (really, why doesn't Poliwrath get Drain Punch?), the same typing, and Justified instead of Water Absorb, so I think it could do the same set but better. You'll have to give up either PuP or Poison Jab for Drain Punch tho.
And as always, my tests. Unless stated I didn't came up with the idea.

all the Scythers

The classic Gyarados set is underwhelming, while it has really high stats, it suffers from its poor typing and terrible Weavile syndrome that prevents it from threatening a lot of walls such as Doublade, Munchlax or Gligar (without Waterfall). However, Scyther has a lot of potential sets that are monstruous, and also there's Stocke's defensive Scyther x Escavalier which is pretty good.

Breloom (Scyther) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Bug Bite
- Spore
Stats: 70/200/100/75/80/140
Typing: Bug/Fighting
At +2, even Gligar is pressured and maybe overwhelmed, taking as much as 48% from Bug Bite depending on its spread. Scyther x Breloom's typing also allows it to check Sneasel x Breloom by resisting Mach Punch and OHKOing it with its own. Spore the first counter, SD on the switch, then sweep with that high 200 base Attack. Really good set.

Mienshao (Scyther) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- U-turn
- High Jump Kick
- Aerial Ace
Stats: 90/150/90/95/90/145
Typing: Bug/Flying
This one's interesting. The idea is to use the U-turn + Regenerator combo. Offensive Regenerator is also underrated, as Regenerator allows Scyther x Mienshao to negate LO recoil and thus have a longer lifespan than Scyther x Breloom despite the former's horrid typing. Most of the time you just Fake Out followed by U-turn to gain momentum, but in case you need to directly attack the foe you have HJK, which is stronger than STABed X-Scissor while hitting common Pokémon such as Magneton, Munchlax and Klang. This set's main flaws come from its aforementioned horrible offensive and defensive typing, particularly that nasty x4 SR weakness, that really hurts a Pokémon that loves to come in and out constantly.

Excadrill (Scyther) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Roost
Stats: 120/160/100/75/100/125
Typing: Bug/Steel
This set has higher bulk than all other offensive Scyther sets, while having a good Bug/Steel typing that allow for more set-up opportunities together with Lum Berry. Mold Breaker is another plus, allowing this set to bypass Magneton's Levitate and Munchlax's Unaware when they're crossed with Flygon and Quagsire, respectively. STAB Iron Head + EQ is also better coverage than Bug/Flying, and both moves have decent BPs, unlike Scyther x Gyarados and Scyther x Mienshao's Aerial Ace.

Other

Crawdaunt (Sneasel) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Icicle Crash
- Pursuit
- Low Kick
Stats: 75/135/75/75/95/135
Typing: Dark
This set is more dedicated to wallbreaking than the more common Breloom one. Nothing really enjoys switching into Banded Adaptability STAB Knock Off, either because they're 2HKOed or hate losing their item. In fact this set has one of the, if not the strongest, Knock Off in the metagame. Adaptability Pursuit is another bonus, but sadly there isn't much to Pursuit trap in Cross Evolution, where both Ghost and Psychic-types (especially Psychic-types) are rare. Icicle Crash is not STAB anymore but it is still there for that sweet Ice coverage (especially for Gligar which is everywhere). Low Kick completes the coverage by hitting Steel-types harder than Knock Off does, and 2HKOing Munchlax x Quagsire. While this set 2HKOes a good portion of the meta, it also has a nasty habit of missing OHKOs, which is bad news for such a frail Pokémon.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
For a change, using Primal Kyogre was my idea. This thing is a monstruous wallbreaker, while certainly slow and somewhat physically frail, Primal Kyogre can take weak hits on the special side and then proceed to wreck walls. Like, look at these calcs:
Unboosted:
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 124 SpD Magneton (Flygon) in Heavy Rain: 336-396 (92.5 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Scyther (Escavalier) in Heavy Rain: 225-265 (58.5 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh in Heavy Rain: 504-594 (121.4 - 143.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Munchlax (Quagsire) in Heavy Rain: 313-369 (56.6 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Finneon (Milotic): 202-238 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Boosted:
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Pumpkaboo-Super (Chansey): 338-398 (60.4 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 196+ SpD Scyther in Heavy Rain: 336-396 (83.3 - 98.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chinchou (Milotic) in Heavy Rain: 233-274 (46.2 - 54.3%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Ninjask (Krabby) @ Choice Band
Ability: Speed Boost / Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Aerial Ace
- Rock Slide
- Knock Off
Stats: 60/150/45/45/45/170
Typing: Water/Flying
Meant to be a decently powered early-game wallbreaker or a terrifting late-game sweeper. The only move you really click is Crabhammer, rest are fillers. Krabby x Ninjask is blazing fast outspeeding everything up to base 150s (Scyther x Breloom, Deoxys-A) with an Adamant Nature and at +0. You can opt for Speed Boost to outspeed the entire meta at +1 and increase your chances of a late-game sweep, or Infiltrator if you feel 439 Speed is enough for you. Priority is horrible for this set though, as it has pathetic 60/45/45 bulk and a bad defensive typing, even coming with a SR weakness. Krabby x Ninjask is decent, but not great.

Gallade (Rhydon) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat / Drain Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Polish / Ice Punch
- Swords Dance / Ice Punch
Stats: 135/220/150/45/105/70
Typing: Ground/Fighting
Rhydon x Gallade was forgotten in favor of the Beedrill set, may I ask why? This thing has 592 Attack, SD, and Fighting-type STAB moves to dispatch Munchlax x Quagsire (the best Unaware by far). Ground/Fighting is cool offensively and defensively it lacks all the weaknesses provided by a Rock typing, also 135/150/105 bulk is decent when uninvested. You can pull off Double Dance sets to defeat a wide variety of playstyle or replace one set-up move (since Cross Evolution is a balance-dominated metagame I'd drop Rock Polish) for Ice Punch to prevent Gligar and Pumpkaboo from walling you.

Thoughts?

Cool stuff, man. That Krabby X Ninjask in particular looks fun, but remember that it has U-turn if it's ever necessary. I also want to bring up Litleo X Noivern, because it has STAB Boomburst off a Special Attack somewhere in the 120s if I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Stocke]

shoutout to Spandan for getting the .crossevo command for Abyssal Bot working on ROM, now I don't have to keep the spreadsheet of stats open constantly when I'm building for Cross Evolution

so this isn't a one-liner, quick set drop:

(Stats: 95/128/153/50/95/103)
Barbaracle (Gligar) @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Taunt / Roost / Cross Chop

The idea behind this set was fairly simple; I wanted to be able to take advantage of Gligar's potential offensive prowess with Acrobatics while making use of a powerful boosting move. The two boosting moves that Gligar can have access to which can trigger a hold item upon use are Shell Smash and Belly Drum; I decided to go with Shell Smash because my choice of evolution here, Barbaracle, not only has access to Shell Smash but also good offensive and defensive boosts across the board (aside from Special Attack, which isn't necessary on this set, and Speed, which is mitigated by Shell Smash's Speed boost) and a good ability in Tough Claws which boosts Acrobatics further. The goal of the EVs is fairly simple, I wanted to maximize bulk to ease setup and make it harder to be revenge-killed by priority and power as base 128 Attack is a bit lacking for Cross Evolution standards. Speed benchmark should outpace the entire unboosted metagame after a Smash, though I'm open to suggestions if there's any fast Scarf users/other Speed boosters I should aim to outspeed as well. As far as the moves go, the first three are simple; Acrobatics is the main move you're going to be clicking after setting up and Earthquake provides a second STAB to hit many Steel- and Electric-types. The last slot is filler; Roost is nice to heal off damage and take advantage of this set's solid bulk should you want to though it's basically useless if your White Herb gets burned by an Intimidate before setting up, while Cross Chop hits the odd Magneton (with a Levitate evo ofc) as well as Unaware Munchlax harder than any other move on the set, though in the case of Munchlax it only 3HKOs the physically defensive set so you still don't beat it reliably.

edit: thanks sin(pi) for the suggestion of Taunt! that's this set's most reliable way of getting past Munchlax, and since it's normally a huge roadblock I decided to put it as the first slash in the fourth slot

 

[sin(pi)]

shoutout to Spandan for getting the .crossevo command for Abyssal Bot working on ROM, now I don't have to keep the spreadsheet of stats open constantly when I'm building for Cross Evolution

so this isn't a one-liner, quick set drop:

(Stats: 95/128/153/50/95/103)
Barbaracle (Gligar) @ White Herb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Roost / Cross Chop

The idea behind this set was fairly simple; I wanted to be able to take advantage of Gligar's potential offensive prowess with Acrobatics while making use of a powerful boosting move. The two boosting moves that Gligar can have access to which can trigger a hold item upon use are Shell Smash and Belly Drum; I decided to go with Shell Smash because my choice of evolution here, Barbaracle, not only has access to Shell Smash but also good offensive and defensive boosts across the board (aside from Special Attack, which isn't necessary on this set, and Speed, which is mitigated by Shell Smash's Speed boost) and a good ability in Tough Claws which boosts Acrobatics further. The goal of the EVs is fairly simple, I wanted to maximize bulk to ease setup and make it harder to be revenge-killed by priority and power as base 128 Attack is a bit lacking for Cross Evolution standards. Speed benchmark should outpace the entire unboosted metagame after a Smash, though I'm open to suggestions if there's any fast Scarf users/other Speed boosters I should aim to outspeed as well. As far as the moves go, the first three are simple; Acrobatics is the main move you're going to be clicking after setting up and Earthquake provides a second STAB to hit many Steel- and Electric-types. The last slot is filler; Roost is nice to heal off damage and take advantage of this set's solid bulk should you want to though it's basically useless if your White Herb gets burned by an Intimidate before setting up, while Cross Chop hits the odd Magneton (with a Levitate evo ofc) as well as Unaware Munchlax harder than any other move on the set, though in the case of Munchlax it only 3HKOs the physically defensive set so you still don't beat it reliably.

This set is really strong, I've been using it dor a while, but with Taunt in the last slot to try and muscle through Munch. You struggle with Doublade and Magneton if they're immune to EQ, so it pairs nicely with something like MagmarxSerperior, or with another bird which can weaken them, eg Scyther or Fire Blast MMence. I don't remember my exact spread unfortunately as I'm on mobile rn.

 

[anaconja]

A fun set I'm using:

Delcatty (Pancham) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Block
- Baton Pass

Tentacruel (Pumpkaboo-Super) @ Scope Lens / Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acupressure
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Sludge Bomb

It's pretty easy to see how this works: Send out Pancham, Block, Entrainment, then Baton Pass to Pumpkaboo. Since the enemy can't do any damage to it, max out all stats and start steamrolling the whole team. Works wonders against the Abyssal Bot:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-33078
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-33082
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-crossevolution-33088

 

[readytolose]

Delcatty (Pancham) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Block
- Baton Pass

You can't baton pass trapping effects and have not been able to since Gen 4, so there is no way that set would work on an actual person. The bot just doesn't switch because it is a bot.

 

[292thu]

Just use a ghost into a Delcatty with mean look

 

[anaconja]

Okay, how about this:
Delcatty (Misdreavus) @ Scope Lens
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Skill Swap
- Mean Look
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse

 

[AquaticPanic]

Here's a hella underrated evolution with a hella underrated move:

Sylveon (Omanyte) @ White Herb
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Wring Out
- Earth Power



Stats: 75/50/115/155/120/40
So, fun thing about this one. When I first read the rules I thought mons could only learn moves if only the evolution learned it but not the pre-evo (Example; Hydreigon gets U-Turn but Zweilos doesn't; but both get Dark Pulse. I thought you could only get U-Turn), so I thought I couldn't use Hyper Voice. Although Wring Out is way better. Being only 20 bp away from Boomburst, this is very viable for a sweeper. Thanks to Pixielate, it's a 156 BP move with STAB that is able to OHKO lots of things (Such as Primal Kyogre and TangelaVolcarona). Surf is it's water STAB (As it's offense, no need for Scald). Shell Smash is Shell Smash. Then Earth Power to hit PDon, as most things that are weak to Ice Beam take a great damage from Wring Out. Also looses the horrendous Rock-Typing that was pretty useless in change of another good offensive type that is imune to dragons. Also it's just hillarious that Omanyte is a fairy (And even can have Cute Charm. Omanyte Kawaii).

Another fantastic Shell Smash user:

Hitmonlee (Tirtouga) @ White Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Blaze Kick


Stats: 69/163/121/53/120/74

At first, may seem like just a regular Tirtouga set with Fire coverage. Until you realize it has a perfect combo on Shell Smash + White Herb + Unburden. Then it outspeeds... probably everything (And if not, too long to list), hits hard with both of it's STABs and gains great coverage with Blaze Kick. Water/Rock/Fire hits most things, if not everything, at the least neutrally. If you don wanna get haxed, run Rock Slide. Either way, it has a really good combo to abuse and can do well as a Late- and possible Early- Game Sweeper. 69/121/120 is a nice-ish bulk,- enough to take one hit and use Shell Smash. Funny how a Rock Turtle out of all things becomes one of the fastest things ever.

 

[urkerab]

When I first read the rules I thought mons could only learn moves if only the evolution learned it but not the pre-evo (Example; Hydreigon gets U-Turn but Zweilos doesn't; but both get Dark Pulse. I thought you could only get U-Turn)

What would perhaps have made more sense is that you could only get level-up/tutor moves from the evolution, although this would make a whole bunch of evolutions unviable (e.g. you wouldn't be able to get Aqua Jet, Baton Pass, Haze, Mud Shot, Psybeam or Sticky Web from cross-evolving to Masquerain, since only Surskit learns them).

 

[TimeZone]

We have finally found a potential regenerate user. And guess what? It's a ghost type too!

Reuniclus (Dusclops) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Night Shade
- Disable

85/95/155/60/155/25
Abilities:Overcoat/Magic guard/Regenerate


I personally like going full physical defensive, just because surprisingly Dusclops helps my team deal with breloomSneasel (cause I didn't have room for DniteDoublade) but by no means it can safely switch in anytime time it wants. Only able to eat one Koff, then disabling it in return and switch to another bulky mon and then come back in :p. But look at those stats man, 85/155/155 with regenerate+recovery+the wonderful ghost typing is just to good to pass up imo. I didn't come up with this idea thou. But it looked too good to ignore. Edit: When I said "I didn't come with the idea" i didnt mean the set. I meant Reuniclus x Dusclops.


But I did discover this thou,


Vaporeon (Onix) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 240 HP / 92 Def / 176 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Stealth Rock / Toxic
- Protect
- Scald / Earth Power / Toxic

110/55/170/95/75/80
Rock/Ground -----------> Water/Ground
Abilities: water absorb/Hydration

Swamperoen imho. Lol but seriously, it wishpasses WAY better than vaporeon her self while also being immune to electric still. The 176 in spD is there to better check kyogre/P-Kyogre that's assuming if you're running toxic thou. Scald and earth power are usable(mostly scald) thanks to having a decent 95spatk, but they both have a different purpose. Earth power allows it to hit P-groudon,killing gallade x klang after it uses cc after Shift gear,hits chinchou SE applying pressure if you chosed to run toxic or if it's already poised. Scald id for burning obviously, hitting magneton x flygon, helps checks gyarados mons, destroys any rhydon stupid enough to stay in etc etc you all know scalds' purpose already.

Hitmontop (Lickitung) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 240 HP / 92 Def / 176 SpD
Impish Nature
- Facade
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail

105/115/135/60/150/65
Abilities:intimidate/Technician/Steadfast.

I think this is self explanatory.

There's plenty other stupidly bulky and offensive pokemon I could post but I haven't tested them all yet.

Edit: Lickitung btw, be aware. This thing can run a TON of random shit. Examples:
Lickitung ===> Amoonguss: Stats:135/85/100/90/100/45 Abilities:Effect Spore/Regenerator Type:Normal

Lickitung ===> Arcanine: Stats:125/95/110/90/105/65 Abilities:Intimidate/Flash Fire/Justified Type:Normal


Lickitung ===> Ferrothorn: Stats:120/99/115/90/105/40 Abilities:Iron Barbs/Anticipation Type:Normal

Lickitung ===> Hariyama: Stats:162/115/105/80/105/55 Abilities:Thick Fat/Guts/Sheer Force Type:Normal

I can literally go on how many viable, potential sets it can use. Bulky ones specifically, as majority of the offensive ones I found can/are be done better by other mons.

Edit 2: Last one.
Lickitung ===> Gourgeist-Super: Stats:116/89/127/74/95/43 Abilities:Pickup/Frisk/Insomnia Type:Normal

Jesus.....potiental SubLeech set

 

[lightninging]

how many people would be interested in a cross evo tournament?

 

[Josehaber]

how many people would be interested in a cross evo tournament?

Yes! Great idea, we should do it

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Honestly, if you go from stage 1 to stage 2 you should be able to use Eviolite.

 

[Stocke]

how many people would be interested in a cross evo tournament?

I agree that that's a good idea, Cross Evolution has a fairly sizable playerbase for a meta that's never been on main (and won't unfortunately unless the OMotM rules change) and it'd be a shame to lose it when the new generation starts so I think a tournament sounds like a good way of keeping activity up (plus as it stands a lot of people only get to play against the bot so it'll also be an opportunity to test out as many new strategies against other players as possible, a best of 3 format might be reasonable for that purpose but it obviously depends on what dsm prefers)

Honestly, if you go from stage 1 to stage 2 you should be able to use Eviolite.

I agree if it's a stage 1 of 3 -> stage 2 of 3 evolution (stage 1 of 2 for the pre-evolution seems to me like it contradicts the previously-set guidelines for evolution, but I might be misinterpreting them), though that might be a bit difficult to code, I'm not sure. I'd wait for dsm to voice any specific concerns he has with the idea, though

 

[AquaticPanic]

Uh. I was playing random stuff and I found this


Milotic (Ferroseed) @ Leftovers
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Toxic


Now, look at this bulk: 119/95/150/114/156/11
Recovery? Check. Good defensive typing? Sucks against fire but check. Leech Seed? Check. Usable-Ish Sp A? Kind of check.

I'd write more but I gotta go, I'll edit this later

 

[lightninging]

I agree that that's a good idea, Cross Evolution has a fairly sizable playerbase for a meta that's never been on main (and won't unfortunately unless the OMotM rules change) and it'd be a shame to lose it when the new generation starts so I think a tournament sounds like a good way of keeping activity up (plus as it stands a lot of people only get to play against the bot so it'll also be an opportunity to test out as many new strategies against other players as possible, a best of 3 format might be reasonable for that purpose but it obviously depends on what dsm prefers)


I agree if it's a stage 1 of 3 -> stage 2 of 3 evolution (stage 1 of 2 for the pre-evolution seems to me like it contradicts the previously-set guidelines for evolution, but I might be misinterpreting them), though that might be a bit difficult to code, I'm not sure. I'd wait for dsm to voice any specific concerns he has with the idea, though

this meta already has a metric fuckton of bulky stuff which often requires specific mons to lure and kill; i dont even wanna imagine something like quag x munch with eviolite... mold breaker fighting types would be a necessity on every team. the meta seems fine as is tbh. DSM, what are your thoughts on a tourney? would bo3 or double elimination sound reasonable?

 

[Stocke]

this meta already has a metric fuckton of bulky stuff which often requires specific mons to lure and kill; i dont even wanna imagine something like quag x munch with eviolite... mold breaker fighting types would be a necessity on every team. the meta seems fine as is tbh. (removing this because I don't want to tag whoever that was again), what are your thoughts on a tourney? would bo3 or double elimination sound reasonable?

you tagged the wrong user, you meant dsm77773

if Eviolite would work how I'd assume it would (I described it in the previous post but basically, cross-evolutions can only use Eviolite if the Pokémon being evolved from can evolve twice and the Pokémon being evolved into can evolve again; the first clause probably isn't 100% necessary but the second should definitely be implemented if Eviolite regains its functionality) Unaware wouldn't be any more of an issue than it is now since there are no Unaware users that are stage 2 of 3. mons evolving into Chansey might be a problem due to Chansey's colossal HP gain but at the same time it's hard to say since there are still a very large amount of setup sweepers in Cross Evolution which those can't really deal with, plus although Knock Off doesn't seem too common at the moment there's not much barring it from becoming more common to help deal with Eviolite users (Gligar gets it, for one thing)

 

[dsm77773]

thoughts on a tourney? would bo3 or double elimination sound reasonable?

I'd like to have a Cross Evolution tournament, problem is I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to host it/participate because of activity issues. Dunno what do you need to start a tourney but if one of you can host it then I'd be fine for me.

 

[lightninging]

I'd like to have a Cross Evolution tournament, problem is I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to host it/participate because of activity issues. Dunno what do you need to start a tourney but if one of you can host it then I'd be fine for me.

first off sorry for being a dumbass and tagging dsm lol didn't even think twice either. second, id be down to host if you think it's a good idea. after Thursday school slows down a ton for me so I should be pretty free.

 

[292thu]

What about weight? Does an evolution gain weight or keep the weight of the prevo?
EDIT: It keeps the weight of the Prevo... so much for Heavy Slam Ferroseed.
Evolutions should gain weight though imo, it is a stat albeit a less used one.

 

[thesecondbest]

What about weight? Does an evolution gain weight or keep the weight of the prevo?
EDIT: It keeps the weight of the Prevo... so much for Heavy Slam Ferroseed.
Evolutions should gain weight though imo, it is a stat albeit a less used one.

Yeah, if it works in mix and mega it should work here too. I mean it hardly matters but the metas are kind of similar in that way.
Anyways, so this post isn't useless, just remember this is ubers based, so walls should be bulkier than Giratina, or have better typing. Just like how in mnm Primal Groudon was the best mon yet neglected in the theorymon stage, I think we should talk more about which ubers can still dominate.

 

[dsm77773]

first off sorry for being a dumbass and tagging dsm lol didn't even think twice either. second, id be down to host if you think it's a good idea. after Thursday school slows down a ton for me so I should be pretty free.

If you can host it, then go ahead, I'd really like to see a Cross Evolution tournament. Also I agree with it being Bo3 for the reasons Stocke stated.

What about weight? Does an evolution gain weight or keep the weight of the prevo?
EDIT: It keeps the weight of the Prevo... so much for Heavy Slam Ferroseed.
Evolutions should gain weight though imo, it is a stat albeit a less used one.

Iirc urkerab ended up coding the weight gain even though it was overlooked in the early stages of the metagame. I don't know how it is currently implemented, though.

Yeah, if it works in mix and mega it should work here too. I mean it hardly matters but the metas are kind of similar in that way.
Anyways, so this post isn't useless, just remember this is ubers based, so walls should be bulkier than Giratina, or have better typing. Just like how in mnm Primal Groudon was the best mon yet neglected in the theorymon stage, I think we should talk more about which ubers can still dominate.

For the most part, Gligar is better for defensive roles, but Primal Groudon has niches in being able to spread burns, the Water immunity, and being able to run Gligar as a teammate. Offensive Primal Groudon sets are largely untested, even though Rhydon x Gallade sure does give it strong competition, Primal Groudon is faster and can run bulkier spreads while having a better defensive typing, so I think it does have a niche.

Great special wallbreaker with Calm Mind, very underprepared for. Appreciates Primal Groudon being way less common than in Ubers, and has few counters at +1. Defensive sets are severely outperformed by Cross Evolution's bulky Water-types, particularly Chinchou x Milotic and Finneon x Milotic.

I tried a Specs set and it is decent, but one would expect it to hit harder. Draco Meteor is still a great nuke that deals >50% to most special walls at +0. Ice-weak Pokémon are also pretty common (especially Gligar) so that's another bonus. Only faced Scarf once so I can't tell if it's a viable set.

Has to worry more about the strong physical attackers or special attackers with a super-effective move that usually can KO it at around 60% health (this also means it is even more crippled by Stealth Rock), and 90 base Speed is slow in Cross Evolution. That aside, Regenerator and Sacred Fire are just amazing, and it can be pretty difficult to switch into. Still tanks most special attacks nicely as well. In general, Ho-Oh keeps being a good choice.

Definitely not as good as in Ubers, but very underprepared for. The power creep does it no good though, as it can be pretty difficult to set up a Geomancy, but at +2/+2/+2 it is still very scary.

Extreme Killer has lots of new counters, but it is devastating against HO.

Still the best suicide lead for HO teams, even better than Prankster cross-evolutions due to Deoxys-S great support movepool that features gems such as Magic Coat that allows it to beat said Prankster leads 1v1.

Takes a lot of damage from special attacks but can still use some physical attackers or passive Pokémon to set up. The popularity of some of its newfound hard-counters in Cross Evolution (Magneton x Flygon with Roost and especially Doublade x Dragonite) hurts, but Mega Salamence can adapt running Fire Blast. The defensive Dragon Dance set can outlast its counters and destroy defensive builds.

Great wallbreaker, the rarity of its Ubers counters only helps it. Both SD and NP can 2HKO a lot of the metagame and pack priority in Bullet Punch and Vacuum Wave respectively. However Mega Lucario is very frail and somewhat slow for an attacker (still outspeeds every wall and most other wallbreakers), which means that if it misses the OHKO it can be easily OHKOed back.

Viable but mediocre (the last two as weather setters)

 

[Ludicrousity]

So, cross evolving with Gyarados gives stat boosts of +0/+115/+24/+45/+80/+1. It gives 2 great abilities in Intimidate and Moxie and an extra Flying Type...

Good Lord...

Golurk's Stats: 89/124/80/55/80/55 (483 Total)
Golett's Stats: 59/189/74/80/160/36 (598 Total)
Difference in stats: -30/+65/-6/+25/+80/-19
Net Total: +115
New Typing: Ground/Flying
New Abilities: Moxie/Intimidate

Once again, good lord... I don't even know what to say about this one... 160 Special Defence puts it higher than Florges, and it has an amazing defensive typing, I guess... and if things weren't bad enough, this thing gets 189 Attack... more than Mega Mewtwo X... (iirc)
Edit: nope, 1 point under... but this thing still gets dragon dance :3

Darmanitan's Stats: 105/140/55/30/55/95 (480 Total)
Darumaka's Stats: 70/205/69/60/125/51 (580 Total)
Difference in stats: -35/+65/+14/+30/+70/-44
Net Total: +100
New Typing: Fire/Flying
New Abilities: Moxie/Intimidate
Well... this Attack stat is broken. Oh, and it gets dragon dance + LO... Pure hell in a Pokemon... did I mention moxie on top of all this? It also gets waterfall for those pesky Ground and Rock types...

 

[Josehaber]

So, cross evolving with Gyarados gives stat boosts of +0/+115/+24/+45/+80/+1. It gives 2 great abilities in Intimidate and Moxie and an extra Flying Type...

Good Lord...

Tyranitar's Stats: 100/134/110/95/100/61 (600 Total BsT )
Pupitar's Stats: 70/199/94/100/150/52 (665 Total BsT)
Comprison in stats: -30/+65/-16/+5/+50/-9

Gyarados (Pupitar) @ Life Orb/Choice Band
Ability: Moxie
New Stats: 70/199/94/100/150/52
New typing: Rock/Flying
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature

Will finish soon

Pupitar is a stage 2 so it cant cross-evo into Gyarados,