Custom Power

[Quantum Tesseract]

Any volunteers to start a VR for post #2? I'd like one similar to AAA, which lists the CP move(s) alongside the Pokemon.

Example

Return-Ice, Outrage-Ice

Extreme Speed-Fire, Extreme Speed-Ice

I can volunteer, but I only have experience with one play style. If anyone else wants to help, that'd be nice- just let me know and I'll link the pad.

 

[Fairy MMM]

I can volunteer, but I only have experience with one play style. If anyone else wants to help, that'd be nice- just let me know and I'll link the pad.

Sign me up pls :o

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Suspect testing Kyurem-Black

Kyurem-Black is always controversial in OMs, because they usually solve it's biggest flaws, lack of physical moves. Wether it's Stabmons with Icicle crash, priority or dragon dance or AAA with Tinted lens, Mold breaker or Refrigerate it usually ends up getting the ban-hammer, so why isn't it banned here? Here's a list of previous GSI and SSI counters

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 187-220 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

​

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 255-302 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 196-231 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

​

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 130-153 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 386-456 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 187-220 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- 29.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 156-185 (49 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

TL;DR I believe this shows that 7 previous GSI and SSI are no longer counters to Kyurem-Black based on its new stab, Kyurem-B never had counters, but now you're best bet is hoping it doesn't have HP fire and use Mega Scizor, please suspect!

(Lol, can't run Ice and Fire together, making Mega Scizor a counter! Still, that's the only one...

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

View attachment 63386
Suspect testing Kyurem-Black

Kyurem-Black is always controversial in OMs, because they usually solve it's biggest flaws, lack of physical moves. Wether it's Stabmons with Icicle crash, priority or dragon dance or AAA with Tinted lens, Mold breaker or Refrigerate it usually ends up getting the ban-hammer, so why isn't it banned here? Here's a list of previous GSI and SSI counters

View attachment 63387​

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 187-220 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

View attachment 63388 ​

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 255-302 (64.7 - 76.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
View attachment 63389
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 196-231 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

View attachment 63390 ​

252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor: 130-153 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
View attachment 63391
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 386-456 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
View attachment 63392
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 187-220 (42.4 - 49.8%) -- 29.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
View attachment 63393
252+ Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Frustration vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Klefki: 156-185 (49 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

TL;DR I believe this shows that 7 previous GSI and SSI are no longer counters to Kyurem-Black based on its new stab, Kyurem-B never had counters, but now you're best bet is hoping it doesn't have HP fire and use Mega Scizor, please suspect!

Yes, this definitely deserves to be looked at. Ice stab is very powerful on cube, even when not combined with dragon dance like in stabmons. However, it's certainly worth noting that with the expect ion of ferrothorn it already old these with outrage+ep+ice beam/iron head. Additionally, things like Porygon and Scizor can at least partially fix this by further investing.

Also hp fire cube is dead and gone. Why would you want to give up your ice stab?

 

[Fairy MMM]

Frustration-Fire Kyurem would be an interesting twist (which would catch me by surprise and insta-rek me if used lmao) but there's close to no reason to use that when you can also have Ice STAB (and actually speedtie with cubes and other base 95s) - not to say it's entirely unviable though. On the other hand, it's open to being trapped by Pursuit-Steel Scizor (also Pursuit-Rock Tyranitar if that's a thing). It also has the same flaws it has in OU with either of the LO/Scarf sets, so I personally don't think it's broken despite having excellent wallbreaking/revengekilling power, depending on which set you use.

 

[kekleon9999]

Breloom @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Feint [Rock]
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch / Iron Tail

Rock type Feint with Technician... You could also use LO but i don't like 10% recoil =T

That looks like a great set!!!! I was wondering if this could work

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade (Grass)
- Brick Break / Synthesis
- Rock Slide
- Spore



Grass Facade for better STAB then Bullet Seed (How do you beat base 140 with toxic condition?), Brick Break for Screen demolition, Rock Slide for coverage, or Synthesis for recovery, and Spore, because no one denies sleep. (Except sleep talk, but that is fairly rare).

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Maybe gimmicky but regarding Toxic Heal Breloom set, I'd prefer this.

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade-Grass/Rock/Ice
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Spore/Leech Seed/Swords Dance

The classic subseed, but this time, you get insanely strong dual STAB or coverage if you're not satisfied with Grass + Fighting coverage (which is walled by quite many things actually). Breloom actually has so much potential in Custom Power, especially with Dragonite gone. Spore is not always needed but Sleep is always a nice thing.

Edit: Also, after playing for a while (not much though), I can say Noivern is really good (A+ or maybe S rank material imo). Maybe it's not as strong but based on performance, I can say that it's barely any different from the Noivern in Metagamiate. Specs Flying Boomburst + Focus Blast still hits everything really hard and has next to no switch ins besides... maybe Zapdos? And that 127 Speed outspeeds everything non Scarfed.

Maybe Noivern is actually not that strong but it seems that everyone overprepared for Extremespeed users that they... kind of lacked preparation for Special Attackers. As a result, well, Noivern sweep teams.

 

[Schpoonman]

Everything and their mother still carrying Extreme Speed means that Noivern's actually really lacklustre. Most offense teams have a Magnezone, and then most teams that do and pretty much every one that does not running Ice Speed means you're going to run into plenty of hard stops. Arcanine with Ice Speed and Morning Sun (which is insanely common) means that Noivern essentially never gets a chance to sweep with Boomburst. Maybe I need to try Life Orb instead of Choice Specs, but that just exasperates Noivern's Stealth Rock weakness.

 

[EV]

I can volunteer, but I only have experience with one play style. If anyone else wants to help, that'd be nice- just let me know and I'll link the pad.

What have you got so far?

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

What have you got so far?

http://piratepad.net/XfSKjn2nIv

I got a bit of help, so we are almost done. As soon as I get back on wifi instead of cellular I'll finish up and add the images.

Viability Rankings with Icons

S Rank

Kyurem Black- Return (Ice), Outrage (Ice)

A+ Rank

Entei - Extreme Speed (Fire/Ice)

Keldeo- Surf (Ice/Electric)

Landorus-T - U-Turn (Flying), Return (Flying/Fighting), Knock Off (Flying)

Mega Metagross - Return/Double Edge (Fire/Psychic/Steel)

Noivern- Boomburst (Flying)

Thundurus- Sludge Wave(Flying/Ice) Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)


A Rank

Mega Aerodactyl - Return/Double Edge (Flying/Rock)

Bisharp- Sucker Punch (Steel), Return (Steel/Dark/Psychic)

Clefable- Thunder Wave (Dark)

Rotom-W - Discharge (Water), Volt Switch (Water/Ice)

Scizor - Pursuit (Steel/Bug)

Weavile - Return (Fire/Fighting/Ice), Pursuit (Ice)


A- Rank

Mega Charizard X - Return (Ground/Grass/Dragon), Quick Attack (Fire/Dragon)

Serperior - Giga Drain (Fire/Rock)

Excadrill- Return (Rock/Steel/Ice)

Mega Diancie - Psychic (Rock/Fire)

Gengar- Sludge Wave (Ghost), Thunderbolt (Fighting)

Lucario- Extreme Speed (Fighting/ Steel)

Mega Medicham - Return (Fighting/Psychic/Ghost), Bullet Punch (Fighting/Psychic)

Talonflame- Brave Bird/Acrobatics (Fire/Fighting), U-turn (Fire/Fighting/Grass)

Rotom-Heat- Volt Switch (Fire), Discharge/Thunderbolt (Fire)

Manaphy - Surf (Ice, Grass, Ground)



B+ Rank

Starmie- Rapid Spin (Dark), Surf (Fire)

Latios- Ice Beam (Dragon/Fire/Fighting)

Gliscor - Facade (Flying)

Jirachi- Body Slam (Steel/Psychic/Fighting), Thunder Wave (Dark)

Magnezone - Volt Switch (Ice/Fire), Discharge (Fire)

B Rank

Zapdos- Discharge (Flying), Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)

Volcanion - Sludge Wave/Bomb (Electric)

Azumaril - Return (Ground/Flying/Water/Steel), Knock Off (Water)

Zygarde - Extreme Speed (Fire/Dragon)
Espeon - Hyper Voice (Fire)

s/o

Credit to Quantum Tesseract, Funbot, Akumeoy, and MMM. Ty for helping.

E: Done

 

[Fairy MMM]

http://piratepad.net/XfSKjn2nIv

I got a bit of help, so we are almost done. As soon as I get back on wifi instead of cellular I'll finish up and add the images.

Viability Rankings with Icons

S Rank

Kyurem Black- Return (Ice), Outrage (Ice)

A+ Rank

Entei - Extreme Speed (Fire/Ice)

Keldeo- Surf (Ice/Electric)

Landorus-T - U-Turn (Flying), Return (Flying/Fighting), Knock Off (Flying)

Mega Metagross - Return (Fire/Psychic/Steel)

Noivern- Boomburst (Flying)

Thundurus- Sludge Wave(Flying/Ice) Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)


A Rank

Mega Aerodactyl - Return/Double Edge (Flying/Rock)

Bisharp- Sucker Punch (Steel), Return (Steel/Dark/Psychic)

Clefable- Thunder Wave (Dark)

Rotom-W - Discharge (Water), Volt Switch (Water/Ice)

Scizor - Pursuit (Steel/Bug)

Weavile - Return (Fire/Fighting/Ice), Pursuit (Ice)


A- Rank

Mega Charizard X - Return (Ground/Dragon), Quick Attack (Fire/Dragon)

Serperior - Giga Drain (Fire/Rock)

Excadrill- Return (Rock/Steel/Ice)

Mega Diancie - Psychic (Rock/Fire)

Gengar- Sludge Wave (Ghost), Thunderbolt (Fighting)

Lucario- Extreme Speed (Fighting/ Steel)

Mega Medicham - Return (Fighting/Psychic/Ghost), Bullet Punch (Fighting/Psychic)

Talonflame- Brave Bird/Acrobatics (Fire/Fighting), U-turn (Fire/Fighting/Grass)

Rotom-Heat- Volt Switch (Fire), Discharge/Thunderbolt (Fire)

Manaphy - Surf (Ice, Grass, Ground)



B+ Rank

Starmie- Rapid Spin (Dark), Surf (Fire)

Latios- Ice Beam (Dragon/Fire/Fighting)

Gliscor - Facade (Flying)

Jirachi- Body Slam (Steel/Psychic/Fighting), Thunder Wave (Dark)

Magnezone - Volt Switch (Ice/Fire), Discharge (Fire)

B Rank

Zapdos- Discharge (Flying), Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)

Volcanion - Sludge Wave/Bomb (Electric)

Azumaril - Return (Ground/Flying/Water/Steel), Knock Off (Water)

Zygarde - Extreme Speed (Fire/Dragon)

s/o

Credit to Quantum Tesseract, Funbot, Akumeoy, and MMM. Ty for helping.

E: Done

I haven't done as much as I'd have liked to recently but I have another couple of things to add:
- Charizard-X can also opt to run Return-Grass to annihilate Quagsire and deal with other bulky waters better, while maintaining coverage for Diancie, Tyranitar and other Rock-types
- Offensive Espeon with Hyper Voice-Fire can bounce back hazards from the likes of walls such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Ferrothorn while also OHKOing them with Life Orb, though it's too frail to be ranked higher than B imo

 

[Lcass4919]

http://piratepad.net/XfSKjn2nIv

I got a bit of help, so we are almost done. As soon as I get back on wifi instead of cellular I'll finish up and add the images.

Viability Rankings with Icons

S Rank

Kyurem Black- Return (Ice), Outrage (Ice)

A+ Rank

Entei - Extreme Speed (Fire/Ice)

Keldeo- Surf (Ice/Electric)

Landorus-T - U-Turn (Flying), Return (Flying/Fighting), Knock Off (Flying)

Mega Metagross - Return (Fire/Psychic/Steel)

Noivern- Boomburst (Flying)

Thundurus- Sludge Wave(Flying/Ice) Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)


A Rank

Mega Aerodactyl - Return/Double Edge (Flying/Rock)

Bisharp- Sucker Punch (Steel), Return (Steel/Dark/Psychic)

Clefable- Thunder Wave (Dark)

Rotom-W - Discharge (Water), Volt Switch (Water/Ice)

Scizor - Pursuit (Steel/Bug)

Weavile - Return (Fire/Fighting/Ice), Pursuit (Ice)


A- Rank

Mega Charizard X - Return (Ground/Dragon), Quick Attack (Fire/Dragon)

Serperior - Giga Drain (Fire/Rock)

Excadrill- Return (Rock/Steel/Ice)

Mega Diancie - Psychic (Rock/Fire)

Gengar- Sludge Wave (Ghost), Thunderbolt (Fighting)

Lucario- Extreme Speed (Fighting/ Steel)

Mega Medicham - Return (Fighting/Psychic/Ghost), Bullet Punch (Fighting/Psychic)

Talonflame- Brave Bird/Acrobatics (Fire/Fighting), U-turn (Fire/Fighting/Grass)

Rotom-Heat- Volt Switch (Fire), Discharge/Thunderbolt (Fire)

Manaphy - Surf (Ice, Grass, Ground)



B+ Rank

Starmie- Rapid Spin (Dark), Surf (Fire)

Latios- Ice Beam (Dragon/Fire/Fighting)

Gliscor - Facade (Flying)

Jirachi- Body Slam (Steel/Psychic/Fighting), Thunder Wave (Dark)

Magnezone - Volt Switch (Ice/Fire), Discharge (Fire)

B Rank

Zapdos- Discharge (Flying), Volt Switch (Flying/Ice)

Volcanion - Sludge Wave/Bomb (Electric)

Azumaril - Return (Ground/Flying/Water/Steel), Knock Off (Water)

Zygarde - Extreme Speed (Fire/Dragon)

s/o

Credit to Quantum Tesseract, Funbot, Akumeoy, and MMM. Ty for helping.

E: Done

slash double edge on metagross tbh, i know it sounds crazy to use it over return, but bruh, its a significant power increase (130 compared to 159 with TC factored in), the recoil is worth having the ability to ohko everything offensive after rocks on the get-go.
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 276-325 (80.9 - 95.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 237-279 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
or you can run adamant and say "i dont feel like risking no rocks" lmao. seriously though, its definatly worth using double edge if its capable of OHKO's return JUST barely fails to obtain.

 

[EV]

Let's suspect the other original Pokemon in my sig! Kyurem-Black!

-

VR are now in post 2!

 

[Sunkern]

The type change is not working with gale wings. My talonflame trying to use U-turn (flying) got outsped by an azumarill.

 

[EV]

The type change is not working with gale wings. My talonflame trying to use U-turn (flying) got outsped by an azumarill.

Q: Why didn't my Talonflame gain priority when I changed Return into the Flying-type?
A: The code looks for the ability Gale Wings before it looks for moves that have changed type, such as with Hidden Power, which means by the time it realizes Return is now a Flying-type, it's already passed the Gale Wings check. However, if you change the type of a move that's originally Flying such as Brave Bird to Fighting, that move will still gain the Gale Wings priority. (See this post for more.)

Substitute Return with U-turn.

 

[drampa's grandpa]

So this is the mon I use as a counter to Espeed, and really priority of all kinds screw you Pikachu.
Slowbro-Mega @ Slowbronite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 SpD
- Foul Play (Ground)
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Thunder Wave

This was originally a counter for Entei, which uses Ice and Fire Espeeds, but I realized quickly that it takes on Lucario pretty well too. The evs can probably be optimized.

Calcs in hide tags

Hide

252+ Atk Choice Band Lucario Extreme Speed (Steel or Fighting) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 45-54 (11.4 - 13.7%) -- possible 8HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 122-144 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 61.7% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed (Steel or Fighting) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 39-47 (9.8 - 11.9%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 104-125 (26.3 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- Atk Mega Slowbro Foul Play (Ground) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 272-320 (96.7 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 0- Atk Mega Slowbro Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 542-638 (192.8 - 227%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So Slowbro switches in, Lucario either attacks or sets up. If Lucario attacks, Slowbro takes it easily, and can recover, cripple or kill. If Lucario sets up, Slowbro can take one hit and slaughter Lucario back with Foul Play (Ground). Problems?

Hide

252+ Atk Choice Band Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Lucario Crunch vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 180-214 (45.6 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Well I'm reaching I know but if Slowbro switches in and hasn't mega'd yet (likely, as it's intended to counter Lucario) AND it gets the defense drop it will kill you after Stealth Rock; sometimes even without. Another problems is if you let Lucario set up and then try to switch in. Don't do that.

Hide

Entei calcs:
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 46-55 (11.6 - 13.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 78-92 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- 26% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 58-69 (14.7 - 17.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and burn damage

Notice I'm being pretty generous to the Entei trainer with that last calc. That's a burn on switch-in basically.
Entei of course can't set up. What if it suddenly decided to run Extremespeed (Grass) to hit would-be counters?

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed (Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 124-148 (31.4 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Still nope. Entei isn't breaking Slowbro anytime soon.

My practical experience with this set tells me that the way to take this down is to use special attackers. Idk what to use with it really. Slowbro-Mega is really more suited to stall, as while it walls very well it doesn't put huge pressure on the switch-ins, and I'm using it as a counter to priority, which is more of a problem for offensive play styles. I guess I'd recommend using slowbro as a pivot, forcing them out and double switching a lot. I'm considerig trying out the base form as well, for regenerator and possibly more offensive pressure if I run specs, but

Hide

252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Extreme Speed (Grass) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 178-210 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

things suddenly become a lot more dicey for Slowbro. Not that Extremespeed Grass is actually a thing.

Also just for kicks
252+ Atk Light Ball Pikachu Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 158-188 (40.1 - 47.7%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

EDIT: on the topic of Kyurem, I've barely seen it, and when I have it hasn't made a huge impression on me. It still has crummy typing and still has issues with speed. It's not like it gets set up or anything. Does anybody have replays or more experience with Kyurem? How do you use it? What do you pair it with?