Heatran is pretty reliable, and if you're really having issues with it then Rotom-H resists everything Genesect can throw at it except Extremespeed the extremely rare Douse Drive Techno Blast.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Other Dedicated Leads
- Thread starter Jojobobo
- Start date
- Status
I rather like to lead with an anti-bullshit Mandibuzz with Foul Play, roost, defog and knock off: it's very rare that The Man can't at least annoy the shit out of someone, he has the bulk to take a rotoms Volt Switch and Roost it off, it can take an Icicle Crash from Mamoswine and 2HKO it, providing it goes for the stealth rock mindlessly like most lead Mamos do...and there's very few things that appreciate a knock off. Not to mention it essentially hard counters lead smeargles . You do need to read the situation and get out of there if it's bad, but eh, that's what the rest of your team is for. I've also been finding Porygon2 with Eviolite to be a solid choice to push momentum in your favor, throwing out Tri Attacks or Discharges can get you a critical status, while dealing sizable bites of damage.
I've been use a Sawk lead to moderate sucess.
Sawk (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Counter
- Taunt
Sawk (M) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Counter
- Taunt
If you predict a genesect lead , you can lead with band tyranitar. The scarf special variant will deal a little less than 50% with U-turn, while Tyranitar has a chance for OHKO with pursuit, and even if it doesn't OHKO, it will be a low enough health to kill with stealth rock. Because Genesect does deal a reasonable amount of damage, don't do this if you have other things you want tyranitar to kill.
4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 164-194 (42.4 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 180 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 200-236 (51.8 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Crunch (Pursuit on switch) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Genesect: 255-301 (90.1 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
I really think that out of 1000s of people I'm the only one who think Lead Jirachi with Magic Coat, T-Wave, Stealth Rock and Iron Head works as quite possibly the best lead. Though I haven't tired it for this generation, I think it still wouldn't be so bad. No one expects to see a Magic Coat Jirachi, plus I used to run a mixed wall set, so literally, nothing was able to OHKO it, (Unless max Att Landorus-T, Landorus-I or Banded Terrakion with EQ >_>) unless you are blessed with a critical hit.
Last edited:
In UU I've found Scarf Azelf makes a fantastic lead. Even with an Adamant nature it outspeeds all base 100 scarfers and basically anything except max speed Deoxys-S. It runs U-turn/Ice Punch/Explosion/Trick, which allow it to counter Psychic types, hazard setters (with Xatu Magic Bounce support), Dragons, and Clerics among other things. Then once its done sufficient damage I just blow it up and take an otherwise troublesome Pokemon with it. It's the cornerstone of my team's success.
Bulky Protean Greninja with Spikes/Taunt/U-Turn/Hidden Power Ghost (Or Shadow Sneak, if you want the priority)
Spikes stop the Volt-Turners dead in their tracks, Taunt stops the hazard setters and Defoggers from getting the spikes away, HP Ghost/Shadow Sneak stop spinners from doing their thing, and U-Turn for momentum.
You sacrifice a great deal of power by using this set, but it gives Greninja a ton of utility and makes him an excellent super speedy support.
Also, I've had a lot of success using Scarfed Diggersby as a lead. I've even caught cocky Gyrados' with a Scarfed Wild Charge turn 1.
Spikes stop the Volt-Turners dead in their tracks, Taunt stops the hazard setters and Defoggers from getting the spikes away, HP Ghost/Shadow Sneak stop spinners from doing their thing, and U-Turn for momentum.
You sacrifice a great deal of power by using this set, but it gives Greninja a ton of utility and makes him an excellent super speedy support.
Also, I've had a lot of success using Scarfed Diggersby as a lead. I've even caught cocky Gyrados' with a Scarfed Wild Charge turn 1.
Personally, whilst I think dedicated leads like smeargle ended with defog changes and other meta shifts, there are some pokemon that a good leads, not necessarily for setting up SR/Spikes/Dual screens.
Firstly, I'm going with Mamoswine with SR, EQ, Ice shard and Icicle crash, holding a focus sash. Its safe to say that Mamoswine 130Atk means it can deal good damage, and remove other leads like Klefki quite easily with STAB Earthquake. Similarly, if they have a counter to the swine as lead, it can take the hit, set up rocks and switch out as a pivot for later. Ice shard priority can be very useful and he can also be used as an effective Dragon check.
The lead I'm currently running however is M-Banette, with frisk allowing to scout the opponents threat, protect to allow it to prankster next, able to stop physical attackers with Will o wisp or stop a set up sweeper with destiny bond. It's base 165 atk can allow it to dent several threats with STAB shadow claw.
Finally, the aforementioned Noivern is a good lead, with U-turn, frisk, and the ability to trick away choice items at speed.
Firstly, I'm going with Mamoswine with SR, EQ, Ice shard and Icicle crash, holding a focus sash. Its safe to say that Mamoswine 130Atk means it can deal good damage, and remove other leads like Klefki quite easily with STAB Earthquake. Similarly, if they have a counter to the swine as lead, it can take the hit, set up rocks and switch out as a pivot for later. Ice shard priority can be very useful and he can also be used as an effective Dragon check.
The lead I'm currently running however is M-Banette, with frisk allowing to scout the opponents threat, protect to allow it to prankster next, able to stop physical attackers with Will o wisp or stop a set up sweeper with destiny bond. It's base 165 atk can allow it to dent several threats with STAB shadow claw.
Finally, the aforementioned Noivern is a good lead, with U-turn, frisk, and the ability to trick away choice items at speed.
I usually use Rotom-W because it's easy momentum for the team. Conkeldurr is effective as well, most people don't know how to deal with it properly (yet) and Knock Off is really useful early-game. Aegi is good too to start nuking things right off the bat.
Four attacks LO Deoxys-s is my go-to lead against any team with a genesect (which is most of them). Genesect is always the lead, and it ALWAYS stays in while I OHKO it because it thinks I'm using the suicide lead set. In most other situations, I lead with Landorus-T because intimidate, rocks, knock off, u-turn, and powerful earthquake are all great for a lead.
Mega Charizard-X also works because it can set up on a ton of stuff (including Genesect, who it lures into thunderbolt). It also appreciates mega-evolving away its flying type before the opponent has had a chance to set up stealth rocks.
Mega Charizard-X also works because it can set up on a ton of stuff (including Genesect, who it lures into thunderbolt). It also appreciates mega-evolving away its flying type before the opponent has had a chance to set up stealth rocks.
I lead with Espeon for the sake of blocking hazard leads and a certain prick called Klefki. Well I'm still building it on my other team I lead with either Genesect or Tornadus-T since they both make great scouts and Tornadus can heal off any fake outs and pursuits with regenerator while Genesect is powerful and unpredictable enough to counter most leads.
Since I finally got a decent Zapdos off of the online I've been using it as a lead. If it's a horrible match up I voltswitch out to an appropriate counter. (or if it's smeargle/hazard setter to a mon with magic bounce/immunity to spore ect.) Voltswitch knocks out airballon leads, breaks focus sashes/sturdy and generally gets the momentum going for the group.
If decent match up attack with HP Tbolt or heatwave. Mine is max special attack (modest) to ensure the highest damage possible. That's just me.
If decent match up attack with HP Tbolt or heatwave. Mine is max special attack (modest) to ensure the highest damage possible. That's just me.
I was about to say that I don't really think dedicated leads are useful anymore, but I think I've found one that's pretty decent: Choice Band Dragonite. You don't need to worry about Stealth Rock or anything and your almost guaranteed to survive and KO whatever your opponent throws at you first turn.
I feel like dedicated leads are dead. It's just too easy to counter pick a lead. It's better in my opinion to have a few different pokemon that can act as leads as well as provide useful support/ power throughout the match.
For me, Frosslass hasn't become any less viable of a lead. Though I use her more in Ubers than in OU, the results are still the same. She comes in, lays spikes, taunts any lead not carrying magic bounce (which she could probably kill if I were carrying shadow ball), kills anything you dare send in that's 4X weak to ice (bye bye Garchmop and Skymin) and then trolls you with destiny bond. You say that destiny bond can be played with, but it seems very few are smart enough to. Cursed Body is just the icing on the cake. By the time you get ready to spin those hazards away, Mega Mawile is destroying your life.
I'd say I have a 95% success rate with lass leading. Really the only times I fail are when I overpredict.
BenTheDemon
Banned deucer.
I like using Rotom-W as a lead to bluff a Volt Switch.
Where are you seeing skymin? Anyway it would have a pretty good chance to flinch you to death if you were playing somewhere it was legal.
Froslass is good though, you're right on that point. I got pretty screwed up by one once. It's niche, but if you can take advantage of spikes/taunt/free kills with destiny bond, then it's worth the teamslot.
Don't want to be a douche or anything but, by having a ''Dedicated'' lead, your opponent will most likely predict you lead and correspond with a complete counter/check so I find the dedicated lead role to be useless nowadays.. (Sorry if this has been stated before)
I read a lot about scarfed modest Rotoms. Why not timid?
Personally I run a sticky web sashed galvantula as my lead unless the other team has hazards, in which case I use sableye. Since I need the speed decrease of the other team to deal with things like mega lucario I feel that a suicide lead is still viable- especially if the other person is running hazards too since it's fairly easy to spinblock with the advent of Aegislash.
252 SpA Rotom-whatever form Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 264-312 (92.3 - 109%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Rotom-whatever form Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 288-338 (100.6 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That is enough of a reason to run modest over timid for a leading scarf rotom.
Last edited:
From this I'm pretty sure that dedicated hazard leads are almost gone.
However, it seems that the concept of a "dedicated lead" is far from dead. This makes me think "what is the purpose of a lead?" After a lot of thinking, here is what I got:
A lead's primary (an usually only) objective is to start the match with momentum in your favor. There is a period at the start of the match (usually a couple of turns) where no side is "in control" of the match. Both sides want to end this period with momentum in their favor, therefore they tailor leads to give them that advantage.
In Generation IV, this often meant laying down Stealth Rock and preventing your opponent from doing the same. The boost Stealth Rocks gave to your team (and denying your opponent's stealth rock) meant a lot, meaning that if you could come out of the initial phase of the match with hazards intact, you were ahead.
In Generation V, beyond hazard wars, (permanent) weather was added. The weather meant that now the "initial" phase of the game, you had to also establish your weather as the one, true weather. Most of the matches I played in Gen V OU wouldn't really "start" until one side's weather was gone and their inducer was dead.
In Gen VI, weather is used much less frequently and defog is starting to reduce the amount of effort placing hazards is worth. In Gen V, I would often sacrifice a pokemon to lay down rocks if they didn't have a rapid spinner (or I was confident that my spinblocker could stop them). Now, I can't do that.
This means that laying hazards is no longer essential to grabbing momentum in the initial phase of the game. Then what is? Well, we're seeing a rise in U-turn and Volt-Switch based leads (Greninja, Rotom-W, Genesect, Scizor). We're also seeing a bunch of leads that set-up/hit hard early (forcing the opponent to react to them). Essentially, leads aren't dead; they've just changed.
However, it seems that the concept of a "dedicated lead" is far from dead. This makes me think "what is the purpose of a lead?" After a lot of thinking, here is what I got:
A lead's primary (an usually only) objective is to start the match with momentum in your favor. There is a period at the start of the match (usually a couple of turns) where no side is "in control" of the match. Both sides want to end this period with momentum in their favor, therefore they tailor leads to give them that advantage.
In Generation IV, this often meant laying down Stealth Rock and preventing your opponent from doing the same. The boost Stealth Rocks gave to your team (and denying your opponent's stealth rock) meant a lot, meaning that if you could come out of the initial phase of the match with hazards intact, you were ahead.
In Generation V, beyond hazard wars, (permanent) weather was added. The weather meant that now the "initial" phase of the game, you had to also establish your weather as the one, true weather. Most of the matches I played in Gen V OU wouldn't really "start" until one side's weather was gone and their inducer was dead.
In Gen VI, weather is used much less frequently and defog is starting to reduce the amount of effort placing hazards is worth. In Gen V, I would often sacrifice a pokemon to lay down rocks if they didn't have a rapid spinner (or I was confident that my spinblocker could stop them). Now, I can't do that.
This means that laying hazards is no longer essential to grabbing momentum in the initial phase of the game. Then what is? Well, we're seeing a rise in U-turn and Volt-Switch based leads (Greninja, Rotom-W, Genesect, Scizor). We're also seeing a bunch of leads that set-up/hit hard early (forcing the opponent to react to them). Essentially, leads aren't dead; they've just changed.
- Status