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Deoxys E Discussion

Should the SPEED Version of deoxys be allowed in standard play

  • Yes - it has sufficient counters

    Votes: 170 51.1%

  • No - the movepool is still too wide and the "counters" don't wall deoxys good enough

    Votes: 163 48.9%
  • Total voters
    333
COalex said:
I would just like to disillusion everybody as to Deoxys-Es potential as a wall breaker; using my stall team today on the ladder, almost none of the Deoxys got past my Cresselia. One of the ones who came in after Cresselia fainted failed to OHKO my RestTalk Cross with Psychic and promptly died.

For the record, Iggy's SpecsApe (It was a SpecsApe, right?) gave me far more trouble than any Deoxys I encountered today.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is a specs ape. That was a fun battle. If I remember correctly I was using my test team with Specs Ape, Porygon2, Suicune, Dugtrio, Uxie and Blissey. Specs Ape is a real wallbreaker as well, Focus Blast 2HKO's Blissey and Fire Blast can 2-3HKO Cresselia.

Anyways, I still think people are putting off Deoxys-E to lightly, but that's just my opinion and there's nothing I'm going to be able to do except wait this whole thing out. From what I gathered it seems there are still many people against Deoxys-E, and many people for it. On any note, my real question (or concern, however you want to put it) is will Deoxys-E be brought down to OU on Competitor when it is released?
 
that depends entirely on how suited it is determined to be on shoddy battle after the trial period
 
I find deoxys-E a lot like electivire. It's not very strong but it has very good type coverage because of its movepool and hits a ton of very common OU pokemon for super effective damage, a lot of the time it's 4x SE as well. Vire becomes dangerous (theoretically speaking) when it gets its speed boost outspeeds everything while hitting them for SE damage. Deoxys-E is kinda like that except it's already got that speed to outspeed everything.

Like vire, it's not nearly as threatening if it can't hit you for SE damage which is why stuff like cress/tomb/gross etc are being listed as counters for this. I mean in all honesty, this thing isn't all that hard to counter. Hell even blissey can counter this if played right. It can easily come in on 3/4 of its attacks and once it's in, it can easily softboiled stall it or better yet paralyze it.

Anyway speaking of counters, cress and wish jirachi are probably the only true solid counters listed. The others can take its attacks to a certain extent but if they lack a decent recovery move, then they can't switch in on it all day. This goes for the stuff like bronzong, swampert and spiritomb. Metagross too if it doesn't have pursuit which most OU gross don't. Which is something that annoys me about deoxys in OU because it's already forcing changes that are aimed solely at stopping it.

Imo metagross already has the 4 moveslot syndrome. I really don't like having to replace one of those moves just to fit in pursuit for deoxys. There's a reason standard OU gross doesn't run pursuit. It's because it wasn't needed and it has better moves to use...until now.
 
I voted yes. Its speed is completely insane, and so it its movepool. Psychic is a pretty good typing too. I think it's safe to say that's where most of the good news ends.

Besides his speed, all of his stats are not so good. It sounds like something to expect from a Baton Passer, but he lacks Baton Pass, so there goes that option.

Also, even IF he has a great movepool, he can only learn four moves at one time. He's like Mew with being able to learn four moves. He's intimidating at first, but as soon as you learn about what kind of moveset he's using, he's not very scary at all.

He also has "quick attack" moves to worry about, as well as Pokemon that know one of the many forms of "Revenge" like Avalanche, or Deoxys E's cryptonite, Payback.

I can't think of many specific counters for him, but Spiritomb, Focus Sash Weavile, and Dugtrio with Sucker Punch can defeat him... But Dugtrio would have a kind of tough time with a supporting one. Extremespeed can be tough going for the opponent, too.
 
that log doesn't prove a thing, dx-e isn't a noctowl counter and if your opponent didn't realize that after his first attack did 32%, he is not a good battler, period

if you guys are going to post logs, think a little bit first about whether you faced someone who clearly has little experience playing. if you aren't sure of your opponent's skill level, then the chances are that not only is he or she not a very good battler, but that you yourself are not very good either
 
The log wasn't supposed to prove anything ... it was just supposed to be a bit of fun, obviously it was not appreciated, so I've removed it. Apologies.
 
Actually, a Calm Natured Mismagius can easily counter it. Since it can't learn Dark Pulse, the only thing it can do is Shadow Ball. With 105 base special defence it should be able to survive one. Give it a Thunder Wave and Deoxys is finished... Or a STAB shadow ball.

Dusknoir can't learn Thunder Wave but it CAN learn Shadow Sneak (with STAB). It hits Deoxys quite hard and can tank its attacks pretty well. Not to mention it also has Pain Split.

Banette as well, giving stab Shadow Sneak with it's decent attack. ExtremeSpeed won't affect it, same with Dusknoir.
 
Why is Spiritomb being ignored? With Sucker Punch, Pursuit, immunity to Psycho Boost and Superpower, and some SpDef EV's it can switch in on any thing the offensive sets can muster and pose an immediate threat. It counters offensive DX-E just as well as it counters Azelf.
 
Orwell said:
Why is Spiritomb being ignored? With Sucker Punch, Pursuit, immunity to Psycho Boost and Superpower, and some SpDef EV's it can switch in on any thing the offensive sets can muster and pose an immediate threat. It counters offensive DX-E just as well as it counters Azelf.
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Spiritomb's been mentioned a few times so far, and it would be one of the better counters, imo. Still, it's 3HKO'd by Ice Beam on the first listed DeoS set, and lacks a good recovery move on something with such low Hp, so it can't switch in forever, and definitely can't OHKO.
 
@ Sanjay120
Spiritomb can EASILY beat the Counter/Coat set. For one thing, it's immune to Counter (Fighting immune from Ghost-typing) and immune to Mirror Coat (Psychic immune from Dark-Typing).
 
One thing I havent heard mentioned is deoxys's acces to taunt, the ability to cripple blissey and others ability to heal or paralyze it would be huge. I know spiritomb and dusknoir could still counter it easily,but i just had not heard taunt mentioned.
 
That is true.

Torment can also completely destroy Pokemon holding Choice Items, which is useful against foes like Heracross. Then when they switch because of it, he can Pursuit them.

Blah, I just thought of something that makes him more uber-ish...
 
Train Man said:
@ Sanjay120
Spiritomb can EASILY beat the Counter/Coat set. For one thing, it's immune to Counter (Fighting immune from Ghost-typing) and immune to Mirror Coat (Psychic immune from Dark-Typing).
Click to expand...

Riiiight. Forgot that.

He couldn't beat it if he didn't have the immunities. >O
 
Torment actually could be used against Spiritomb. If it Sucker Punches you while you Tormment, it fails, and if it Pursuits, you can switch out next turn for free.
 
Now, I know I am probably the only one that uses an Admant Choice Band SLaking, but it can handle Deoxys pretty well with Pursuit, and takes Psycho Boost off of the Specs one with around 3% left. It can also take a non-Band superpower.

Celebi dominates Deoxys as well. I only use Specs, so I can't be sure of other variants, but mine can take it easily with Leaf Storm or Shadow Ball.
It resists Pshyco and Superpower and TBolt...
 
Celebi can easily be 2HKO'd by a Life Orb'd Ice Beam unless you're running max HP / SpDef, and if you have Specs I doubt you're doing that.
 
But if you are going to switch to Celebi, chances rae you aren't switching from another poke that is Ice Weak...you would switch to Celebi from Gyara or Hera or something like that...
 
Personally, I've been using

Deoxys @ Choice Band
Naughty (+atk, -sp. def)
252 Atk/204 Spd (outspeeds standard bulkygyara after 2 DD's)/52 Sp. Atk

fire punch
thunderpunch
superpower
psycho boost

with great success. CB superpower OHKOs all but the toughest blissey, doing 81-95% to 252/252 bold blissey and 88-104% to 252/252 neutral blissey. fire punch does 65-77% against 252/12 neutral metagross (highest recommended in analysis), probably an OHKO if he's been hit previously, or enough to set him up for KO. thunderpunch OHKOs 212/180 neutral Gyara (again, higest recommended in analysis)even after an intimidate.
 
Hitit4three said:
But if you are going to switch to Celebi, chances rae you aren't switching from another poke that is Ice Weak...you would switch to Celebi from Gyara or Hera or something like that...
Click to expand...

I hate hypothetical situations in arguments like this. Don't start with "what if" situations, stick to facts. And the fact of the matter here is that Celebi can easily be 2HKO'd by Ice Beam, regardless of what you're switching from.
 
the thing is a beast with 90s in all defensive stats it can sure take a hit and outspeed almost anything. can CM up, hit extremely hard with psycho boost, boltbeam and kill blissey with super power.

The only good counter i can think of is sucker punch sprirtomb? cresselia gets eaten by shadow ball.
 
Derek(PUK) said:
the thing is a beast with 90s in all defensive stats it can sure take a hit and outspeed almost anything. can CM up, hit extremely hard with psycho boost, boltbeam and kill blissey with super power.

The only good counter i can think of is sucker punch sprirtomb? cresselia gets eaten by shadow ball.
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Just because Shadow Ball says "It's super effective!" doesn't mean it lets Deoxys get past Cress. Depending on the spreads Shadow Ball is either a 3HKO or a 4HKO, and Cresselia can carry Thunder Wave to severely mess up Deoxys-S.
 
Yeah, and against the occasional super-special defensive Cresselia (252/252 +SDef Nature), a Life Orbed Shadow Ball is a 5HKO a majority of the time, just to further emphasize that point.

Look at this:

252 SAtk EV +Nature Deoxys-S Shadow Ball to 252/252 +Nature Cresselia = 27.93% - 32.88%

Now, it needs to do a minimum of 30% to be a 4HKO factoring in Leftovers. This should especially emphasize COalex's point that just because something's "Super Effective", it doesn't mean that it will actually hurt very much.
 
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