Other Discussion: Which Pokemon will Fairy impact the most?

[bahamut fury]

I know this may be kind of a broad topic, but I'm wondering what people think of this. More specifically, which Pokemon will make extreme jumps either up or down tiers because of the Fairy type and the Pokemon that carry the Fairy type? I know in general, Dragons are hit, but I'm wondering about more specifics.

One of the biggest examples I can think of is Haxorus. Haxorus typically relies on Choice items to deliver a very deadly Outrage, but doesn't have a heck of a lot more up its sleeve. Before it was dangerous once it got started, but simply switching a Fairy type into it will now be enough to stop it in its tracks. What's worse, since it'll be forced to be switched out, the opponent will have a turn to set up. Haxorus will still have potential, but I personally don't think it'll fit into OU since its Choice sets will be nerfed.

Hydreigon will definitely have trouble as well, since it has a brutal 4x weakness to Fairy.

Any thoughts? And please, be specific, not just like "poisons and steels will be better"

 

[mrglass]

I feel like Torkoal may move up a bit in lower tiers now, with Fire getting a reasonable defensive buff with it's fairy resistance. 6 resistances is definitely not something to sneeze at, and it has great defensive stats. Still has issues like a lack of recovery and terrible abilities though.

 

[Jaetheho]

I feel like Torkoal may move up a bit in lower tiers now, with Fire getting a reasonable defensive buff with it's fairy resistance. 6 resistances is definitely not something to sneeze at, and it has great defensive stats. Still has issues like a lack of recovery and terrible abilities though.

One more resistance isnt helping torkoal.
poor special defense, lack of recovery and weakness to SR makes it a horrible wall/spinner

Scizor will be more OP then he already is.

Maybe ubers this gen?

scizor is never becoming uber. It might be a bit more overused, but hard checks like aegislash will definitely keep in OU

 

[Thorhammer]

Scizor will be more OP then he already is.

Maybe ubers this gen?

Scizor has a few more things it can be effective against, but it's not any harder to stop. In fact, with Steel's loss of resistances, it's even easier to stop than ever, while its resistance to Dragon-type attacks is less important now that it's not Steel-exclusive. Mega Scizor means its bulky sets will become stronger, but most Scizor will prefer regular items.

 

[jmon]

spiritomb now has a weakness

 

[Chaco]

1. What kind of Fairy-type moves are going to be seen? Who will be able to learn them?

2. What mons were hard-countered by popular Dragon-mon? Those might be able to shine.

3. Poison is now even better as a defensive typing. Who gets boosted by this?

4. Scrafty more like Shafty (because he got the shaft with a 4x Weakness).

 

[bahamut fury]

spiritomb now has a weakness

I think he actually does not, to Fairy! Dark is weak to Fairy, and I don't believe ghost resists it.

 

[Molk]

First thing i can think of that will take a pretty big dip in any tier because of fairies is Scrafty. One of the reasons Scrafty was used before was because of its great almost unresisted STAB combination along with its decent/good bulk. Fairy type existing gives Scrafty quite a bit of trouble this gen though. Fairy resists both Dark and Fighting at once, making its STAB combination less of a plus overall, and not just that, but Scrafty now has a 4x weakness to Fairy-type moves that makes it a bit easier to pierce its solid defenses (especially with the bulk up set which usually just runs dual STAB). At least Scrafty gets both Poison Jab and Iron Head to hit fairies though, so at least its not impossible for Scrafty to get around fairies in theory... but having to run one of these coverage moves could leave it open to other things since it can't run say Ice Punch without being left completely open to these fairies, is it worth it?

 

[Legitimate Username]

I'd have to say that I think Specs Latios is dead. Being locked into Draco Meteor is pretty nasty now. However, the existance of Fairies can actually work to its advantage on all-out attacking sets. Suppose it uses Draco Meteor, and the opponent predicts it and switches in something to tank it. Previously, it would be something like Ferrothorn, and Latios would be stuck with an SpA drop making it much more manageable. However, if a Fairy switches in, then Latios doesn't suffer the SpA drop from Draco Meteor and can smack them hard with a coverage move. It's a shame that it doesn't get Sludge Bomb or Flash Cannon (as far as we know), but it can still make do with what it has.

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 212 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 325-385 (82.48 - 97.71%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

With its high base 110 speed and an immunity to Sticky Web, this can be an even bigger advantage against faster, frailer Fairy types.

Latios isn't actually who I think will be most affected by Fairies (I'd have to think about that more), but I thought that it was pretty interesting nonetheless.

 

[Birkal]

Someone brought up a while ago that it's almost more advantageous for Dragons that Fairy-type is immune to its attacks, rather than simply resistant. The two most powerful Dragon-type moves, Outrage and Draco Meteor, take full advantage of this. Outrage becomes unlocked when a Fairy switches in, while Draco Meteor doesn't sustain a SpA drop. Both of these loopholes should make it easy for Dragons to switch to their appropriate coverage move and continue their work.

 

[bahamut fury]

I think he actually does not, to Fairy! Dark is weak to Fairy, and I don't believe ghost resists it.

Whoops, just realized I totally misread that... You were right, and I can't read. Sorry!

 

[TwoBit]

I can see fairy attacks becoming a staple in OU, because of excellent coverage. As for fairy types pokemon themselves, I'm not so sure. All fairy types outside of Azumarril look very underwhelming, especially in terms of physical bulk. The ones with usable special bulk are liable to die to neutral STABs attacks like Flare Blitz, Stone Edge and Earthquake after hazards. If not those attacks, Scizor will can OHKO them easily. By extension the frequency of Outrage and Draco Meteor spam may not change much at all, but every other mon will have another type to use against those moves' spammers.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I'm honestly disappointed with the revealed Fairy-type Pokemon. The type's resistances are primarily physical, and yet, no Fairies have better-than-decent base physical defense, other than Granbull, who is too flawed to use even with its new typing, and Xerneas, who is Uber. I'm still holding on to hope that the lineup for this gen isn't complete (Celebi, Mew, Manaphy, Phione, Shaymin, Victini, and Jirachi all have Fairy-like properties), but as it is, I don't really expect the type to impact the tier much. Azumarill and Togekiss might be used here and there, but that's about it.

 

[fairytale]

That is true, it would probably be better for fairy if it only resisted dragon. Fairy type is still bad news for dragons though and I'm so happy to see them getting knocked down a peg. The majority of fairy types will not be weak to any coverage moves your average dragon would present. The only dragon with a stab SE against fairy is Dialga. Not to say there aren't many dragons with neutral secondary typings that can still deal real damage to them, but it certainly helps. Looking at specific pokemon no dragon special attacker will ever get past sylveon, who I expect to be a relevant figure in the metagame. Fairy's weaknesses (poison and steel) are not, or at least have not, been good offensive typings. In fact, they are the two worst of the 18 types. Heh. What I'm saying is have fun covering fairy types with a weak hidden power that serves nearly no other purpose. Special-based dragons are definitely hurting more because of this, sorry Latios, Hydreigon etc. Choiced dragons in general I see being mostly a thing of the past, special and physical. While outrage will unlock if a fairy SWITCHES in, they will still be forced to continue outraging if a fairy comes in to revenge kill with a SE STAB while taking no damage. At least I think thats how it works, correct me if I'm wrong. Now that I think about it, I don't think it would be better for fairy types to merely resist dragon.

I guess hydreigon will probably be most affect seeing as the fairy typing is completely anti-hydreigon and it's a special attacker. Garchomp will probably be least affect of the dragons, as he'll just earthquake away.

As for the scizor discussion I'd just like to note that Azumarill, Klefki, and Dedenne (lol) will not be weak to bullet punch, for whatever those guys will be worth. Which may well be nothing but, who knows.

 

[PKMN1]

I'm honestly disappointed with the revealed Fairy-type Pokemon. The type's resistances are primarily physical, and yet, no Fairies have better-than-decent base physical defense, other than Granbull, who is too flawed to use even with its new typing, and Xerneas, who is Uber. I'm still holding on to hope that the lineup for this gen isn't complete (Manaphy, Phione, Shaymin, Victini, and Jirachi all have Fairy-like properties), but as it is, I don't really expect the type to impact the tier much. Azumarill and Togekiss might be used here and there, but that's about it.

what about Mega-Mawile? Mawile itself looks average AT BEST, but Mega-Mawile gets good attack and defense boost likely AND gets huge power as its ablity. Its new typing helps it a lot and it looks like it is going to hit like a Freight train.

As for Garchomp, Togekiss shuts it down cold unless the Garchomp runs Stone edge but it rarely does and it has the high chance of missing as well

 

[Thorhammer]

The only dragon with a stab SE against fairy is Dialga.

And Dragalge. Which should have about as much impact on OU as Dialga will.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

Specs Magnezone and offensive Heatran are gonna be all the rage, man. Magnezone's gonna be better than ever since it can trap Steels to help your own Dragons/Fairies(?) meanwhile at the same time switch in on opposing Fairy-types and smash them with Flash Cannon or Volt Switch. Offensive Heatran, kind of the same deal, especially quadresisting Fairy by itself and potentially carrying a deadly Flash Cannon. And if not even that, both of them could set up Substitutes or whatever move of choice and go from there. Predicting these plus Scizor to be the top three offensive Steels in OU, even over Mawile.

 

[Thorhammer]

Specs Magnezone and offensive Heatran are gonna be all the rage, man. Magnezone's gonna be better than ever since it can trap Steels to help your own Dragons/Fairies(?) meanwhile at the same time switch in on opposing Fairy-types and smash them with Flash Cannon or Volt Switch. Offensive Heatran, kind of the same deal, especially quadresisting Fairy by itself and potentially carrying a deadly Flash Cannon. And if not even that, both of them could set up Substitutes or whatever move of choice and go from there. Predicting these plus Scizor to be the top three offensive Steels in OU, even over Mawile.

Um. Lucario? Mega Luke hits as hard with Bullet Punch as with Extreme Speed, after all.

 

[Karpi]

Latios has a hard counter in Gardevoir, I suppose that's not insignificant. I mean, what's it going to do? non-STAB Surf against 115 base Sp. Def.?

 

[Ash Borer]

I'd have to say that I think Specs Latios is dead. Being locked into Draco Meteor is pretty nasty now.

no it isnt, plenty of choiced mons have used moves with immunities before, what are you talking about? I mean mienshao practically kills itself with high jump kick but its choiced sets were very good in gen 5 UU, and ghosts have existed for some time. A lot of fairies like florges, sylveon, gardevoir, and such are very specially defensively bias. Psyshock is very strong against florges and sylveon. Gardevoir, and mawile will be pokemon that latios struggle against though. It's definitely not dead, and still has tools to hit mawile, azumarill, and gardevoir hard with shadow ball, thunderbolt, or HP fire. Shadow ball make jirachi cry now, its definitely going to be a viable move.

 

[zf]

I feel like Torkoal may move up a bit in lower tiers now, with Fire getting a reasonable defensive buff with it's fairy resistance. 6 resistances is definitely not something to sneeze at, and it has great defensive stats. Still has issues like a lack of recovery and terrible abilities though.

One more resistance isnt helping torkoal.
poor special defense, lack of recovery and weakness to SR makes it a horrible wall/spinner

I just want to point out that I think Torkoal, while not good in OU imo, does stand out as an offensive support spinner (yes i said offensive) that can handle Aegislash (SE STAB), Gourgeist (SE STAB), Trevenant (SE STAB), and Sableye (Can't 2HKO Koal, Koal OHKOes with +2 Fire Blast), almost like support Cloyster in the current Ubers meta. Still outclassed by Starmie imo and is pretty bad (only like 304 speed post smash and needs to run Focus Sash), but it has a niche, albeit an extremely small one that may never have a use unless you're using Smashpass or something that absolutely cannot have hazards on its side of the field. I still don't like it competitively, but I can see it on some anti-meta team somewhere in the future.

Honestly, I think Steel types got better with the intro of the fairy typing. Steel is now a desirable offensive typing to hit fairies, and because there are fairies, theoretically Fighting got slightly nerfed and they won't be running as rampant anymore, as well as steel and poison popping up to hit fairies. Fairy's immunity to Dragon, as stated above by Birkal, might be slightly detrimental to their ability to counter dragons, especially since their physical defenses are pretty meh atm. Therefore, people might default back to steel types to handle Dragons with the added bonus of handling fairies at the same time (DragMag just got better imo).

 

[Legitimate Username]

no it isnt, plenty of choiced mons have used moves with immunities before, what are you talking about?

The entire point of Dragon STAB last gen was that with only one type resisting it, Draco Meteor could absolutely WRECK things. With another type immune to it, it becomes far less spammable. Sure, a lot of fairies are vulnerable to Psyshock, but that's hardly an advantage. Besides being only 60% as powerful, a choice-locked Psyshock leaves you even more vulnerable to Pursuit than ever before. Resorting to Psyshock is something that Latios wants to do as rarely as possible, especially now that we have Mega Tyranitar, Mega Absol, and Mega Houndoom. Besides that, Latios's immunity to Sticky Web gives it a lot more potency as a late-game sweeper, and the ability to switch moves granted by Life Orb helps capitalize on that. Perhaps Specs Latios may not be THAT bad in this metagame, but I don't see it as the best item choice at all anymore.

 

[Diggidy]

Hi there, my name is Gengar. I am very fast and very strong. You're introducing a new type weak to poison? Neat, I'll start running sludge bomb! What's that? My primary damage dealing attack now hits steels neutrally? Hot dog! And you say I'm getting a mega-evolution with shadow tag? Well if you insist...

 

[Mattman324]

I'm honestly disappointed with the revealed Fairy-type Pokemon. The type's resistances are primarily physical, and yet, no Fairies have better-than-decent base physical defense, other than Granbull, who is too flawed to use even with its new typing, and Xerneas, who is Uber. I'm still holding on to hope that the lineup for this gen isn't complete (Celebi, Mew, Manaphy, Phione, Shaymin, Victini, and Jirachi all have Fairy-like properties), but as it is, I don't really expect the type to impact the tier much. Azumarill and Togekiss might be used here and there, but that's about it.

Unfortunately, the only standout Fairies that aren't legendary are all old pokemon - new ones either fit the same mold, which means the strongest one (in the main mold that's Sylveon) is the only one worth using, or they have some other major problem that keeps them down (Carbink is weak offensively, Dedenne is weak in general - though I haven't heard any stats on it, someone needs to find those - and Klefki... well, it actually seems reasonably viable, but in a lower tier than OU.)

EDIT: We don't even have a research thread on Dedenne! That needs fixed, I want to know what that thing can do (even if the answer is nothing)

 

[Animorph]

I'm going to agree with Diggidy. Mega Gengar is going straight to Ubers - yes the forced Gengarite means a lack of Focus Sash/Scarf. However, Mega Gengar can now outspeed base 130s such as Jolteon, which was my Gengar counter, and can hit everything for at least neutral damage with its STAB attacks. Sludge Bomb/Shadow Ball/2 support moves will wreck the OU tier inside and out, I think.

Any ground type not wearing a Focus Sash (aka everything but Dugtrio) will be both slower and easily KOed with special attacks, with the sole exception of maybe Gastrodon or something. I forsee the best "counter" to Mega Gengar being Mega Absol, thanks to STAB Sucker Punches that hit super hard.