Regarding the last paragraph in this post, I think that Zamazenta-Crowned is actually weaker than normal Zamazenta. Regarding plain stats, Zamazenta does have great defenses and a steel typing, but it is HUGELY held back by the fact that Zamazenta-Crowned cannot even hold an item. As a speedy tank, it would be nearly unmatched in the meta, but it would have very little breaking power to hit things that its stab cannot hit super effectively, such as Toxapex, Tangrowth, Hippowdon, and Amoongus. It would get very easily worn down even by rocks, and by the very good spikes. Not to mention that in the beginning of the meta it would struggle with a variety of special attackers. Even though this may be too strong, normal Zamazenta will have the ability to hold Choice Band to potentially beat walls like Hippowdon and Toxapex, which would wall the Crowned form. Think of Zamazenta-Crowned as an incredibly bulky Mega Lopunny, but regular Zamazenta is a still very bulky Mega Lopunny that can hold a Choice Band/Scarf.Oh boy, can't believe I'm doing this....
The "Unban Zamazenta" post
I know the council discussed unbanning certain other potential Ubers (although I don't know which ones they discussed), just wanna talk about why I personally think this should have been on the list of mons starting in OU. Zamazenta's awesome stats might make it seem pretty daunting (pun intended), but it has always had shortcomings such as lack of really good boosting moves, the middling mono-fighting STAB, and generally being relatively predictable. I also think that that the meta is shaping up to be able to handle it well enough, and if it's ever going to be tested in OU, now is as good a time as ever. I'm going to outline my arguments point by point, and after each section there will be a wall of calcs sort of summing up the individual matchups discussed in that section. Just so we're clear, I'm not convinced that Zamazenta would even be balanced in OU in the long haul, but I mean, I am similarly unconvinced about most of the other mons voted on to start in OU, so I think Zamazenta is worth a try.
There are a lot of pivots with Regenerator in OU, and specifically a lot that resist Fighting. Toxapex, Amoonguss, Slowbro, and now Tornadus-T (and perhaps Slowking-Galar) are all capable of pivoting in on a predicted Fighting attack. Now none of those can safely be called Urshifu answers, but all of them are definitely capable of pivoting in on an attack from Zamazenta, to scout its choiced sets. None of these are mons that are bad in OU, and in fact, I expect them to be even more necessary post-DLC. Toxapex is still one of the better pivots in the meta, but with Pheromosa and Blaziken returning, as well as Cinderace, its' niche as a physically defensive pivot will be even more called upon. Slowbro is basically a hard counter to Blaziken, and it just so happens to be a great stop to Zamazenta too. Amoonguss will be a great option to pivot into Tapu Koko, but can switch in on Zamazenta to sponge a blow if needed. You see what I'm getting at here, all of these already-viable Pokemon will be used anyways, and would be great means of pivoting in on Zamazenta, resulting in it needing a lot of prediction to adequately make use of. There is also the mandatory phys def Clefable, something already used as a mandatory Urshifu answer, that basically would force Zamazenta to click Iron Head a lot to potentially 2HKO it if it sees Clefable on the opposing team, which can be a liability.
- OU already necessitates a strong Fighting-type check anyways
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 158-186 (51.9 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 78-93 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Toxapex effectively sponges any of Zamazenta's moves except Psychic Fangs or Wild Charge, which generally 2HKO. These moves both have immunities and are pretty weak otherwise, so pivoting out to something else and regenerating most of the health you lost is easy enough. Meanwhile, Zamazenta loses HP from Wild Charge, and potentially Rocky Helmet chip too.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Slowbro is a similar story to Toxapex. Pivots in easily on CC, can be 2HKO'd by coverage but it can easily pivot out and regenerate most of the health it loses from that.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 176-207 (48.6 - 57.1%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Tornadus-Therian: 352-416 (97.2 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
All of Zamazenta's coverage do about the same or less than CC, with the exception of Wild Charge which usually OHKOs and Ice Fang which never does.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Amoonguss: 195-231 (45.1 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Amoonguss: 282-334 (65.2 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
I think we'll see more specially defensive Amoonguss to switch in on Tapu Koko easier, but even a specially defensive Amoonguss can pivot in on Zamazenta once if it needs to. Physically defensive obviously does much better, only really fearing Psychic Fangs, which I think could be a difficult move to slot.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 129-152 (32.7 - 38.5%) -- 4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Clefable has a similar matchup to Zamazenta that it does to Urshifu, it forces the banded Iron Head. Bear in mind that if you're running WishPort, you can use Protect to scout the move, unlike with Urshifu.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 110-130 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- 35.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 196-232 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Aegislash is another really great check. It takes Wild Charge nicely enough, and is only really threatened by Crunch which is otherwise a pretty sodden move to run. Even a more offensive Aegislash can pivot in and suck the momentum away from the Zamazenta user.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 189-223 (45 - 53%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO
This matchup is identical to Band Urshifu's matchup versus Hippowdon. It can 2HKO, but not consistently and it takes chip damage while doing so. Unlike Urshifu, I don't think Zamazenta can really afford to run an Adamant nature, since you only tie with Naganadel and Tornadus-Therian if you do (outspeeding Tapu Koko is very important).
This list includes Buzzwole, Landorus-T, and Zapdos, among others. Zapdos especially, cannot be 2HKO'd by any move from the CB set, and all of Zamazenta's moves are contact, so it runs the risk of getting Static'd. Pressure Zapdos is similar, and burns through Close Combat PP very quickly. Tapu Fini pivots in on Zamazenta, and although it gets worn down over time, it can take enough CCs to pivot in a few times. Notably, fully phys def Fini isn't even guaranteed to be 4HKO'd by any attack from the CB set if it does not run Wild Charge. Unlike Urshifu, Zamazenta does not get Poison Jab, meaning that Tapu Fini and I guess Bulu can pivot in on it a bit safer. Buzzwole is, of course, a very good stop to Zamazenta, not even being 2HKO'd by banded Psychic Fangs, and already looks to be a very viable mon in OU due to being an amazing stop to Urshifu, as well as physical variants of Pheromosa. Landorus-T is a really hard check to Zamazenta that only really fears Ice Fang, which again forces its hand. And of course, we cannot forget that Unaware Clefable with Soft-Boiled will be legal too and will definitely be used to constrain Zygarde, for instance, but it definitely has use against Zamazenta as well, especially due to the Howl set. Based on typing alone, Zapdos-Galar, Articuno-Galar, Slowbro-Galar and Calyrex all seem like they can check Zamazenta to some extent too, but since we don't know much about these mons yet, I'm going to reserve my judgement on them for now, since I think my points stand fine without taking them into account.
- Many new threats in the DLC can check it
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 84-99 (20 - 23.6%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 158-188 (37.7 - 44.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zamazenta cannot overcome Buzzwole. It simply cannot happen. Zamazenta does not have Toxic or Aerial Ace, so Howl sets attempting to break through or some janky Work Up Moonblast set is all it can do. I'll cover the matchup with the Howl set later on in this.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 192-228 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Great option to pivot in, especially if you have something else to dissuade Wild Charge. Moonblast does 2HKO back, by the way.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 172-204 (50 - 59.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If you're running physically defensive Bulu for some reason (it's probably a good Zygarde and Lando-T check) it can pivot in if it needs to, just watch out for Iron Head.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 76-90 (19.6 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
If Dragonite running any sort of bulk catches on, it'll be something you need Ice Fang for as well. Dragonite with Roost seems potent due to HDB.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 170-202 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 117-138 (30.4 - 35.9%) -- 48.1% chance to 3HKO
Zapdos can be really punishing for Zamazenta. It's only really threatened by Ice Fang, and Static can absolutely ruin Zamazenta's great speed. I mentioned Pressure being able to stall out of CC PP easy too, even though more people will probably run Static anyways.
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 220-259 (52.3 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Just for reference TankChomp is 2HKO'd by CC or Ice Fang, so its not really a good answer, but the chip damage can really add up, when you account for Wild Charge chip damage too.
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 220-260 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 75-89 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zamazenta absolutely NEEDS Ice Fang in order to make any sort of headway against this mon at all. Additionally, I think Landorus-T might be running Toxic or Knock Off a lot, both of which can really limit Zamazenta.
For reference, Zamazenta doesn't get Swords Dance, or even Bulk Up. If you want to boost Attack with Zamazenta, Howl or Work Up is the best you're going to get. That's not to say Howl or Work Up would be unviable; they seem actually very good in an OU environment, especially for cleaning up weakened, slower teams. It has 4MSS though, big time, and still can't really break most things the CB set can't. It wants Wild Charge to 2HKO Toxapex at +1 (it's similar to Bulk Up Zen Headbutt Cinderace where Toxapex can heal and Haze alternatingly, however Zamazenta doesn't have the flinch chance) as well as Slowbro, Iron Head for Clefable, Ice Fang for Lando-T and Zapdos, and it still loses to Buzzwole unless it runs Psychic Fangs. Although Buzzwole does barely anything back, Zamazenta can't accrue enough boosts to beat it before it gets beaten. Not to mention that Buzzwole can run Bulk Up or even Toxic which turns it into an even more positive matchup for Buzzwole. If it runs Leftovers it simply is not that strong, and if it runs Life Orb the combined effect of that and Wild Charge will wear it down, and it makes it so stuff like Toxapex can just heal up and Haze as it dies. But it also needs the power of Life Orb in order to break through Unaware Clefable. Basically, the point is, this set can't cover everything it needs to.
- The Howl set seems consistent but has counterplay
0 Atk Buzzwole Drain Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta: 64-76 (19.6 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Buzzwole Drain Punch vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta: 64-76 (19.6 - 23.3%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
This might seem dire, but you need to remember that non Life Orb Zamazenta needs to boost up to +5 Attack just to have a chance to 2HKO Buzzwole, if it's not running Psychic Fangs, and Buzzwole can use Hammer Arm instead to speed things along, or Bulk Up to just win, or Toxic to just win. Even Poison Jab with its high poison chance turns this into a winning matchup.
0 SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 254-302 (78.1 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Zapdos Discharge vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 93-111 (28.6 - 34.1%) -- 98.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Zapdos: 125-147 (32.5 - 38.2%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
Watch out for Hurricane, but even Discharge can beat it down with some luck. Static is still a factor here too.
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 174-206 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 200-237 (50.7 - 60.1%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zamazenta's high bulk and speed means it would be able to dominate slower, physically offensive mons. It has really insane bulk for such an offensive mon and survives a lot of things, I'll give it that. The fact that using Close Combat tanks its defenses can eat into its bulk, though. It still gets 2HKO'd by LO or Specs or Band Pheromosa, Specs Dragapult, +2 Bulu Grassy Glide, among other things. It would find its place in the meta as a limiting factor for mons such as Cinderace, Urshifu, and Kyurem-B, being able to offensively pivot in on them once and force them out. It would also be a great offensive check to Pheromosa. Overall, Zamazenta would be great for offensive teams to not be immediately steamrolled by insane physical attackers without giving up too much momentum. This was kind of a problem so far in gen 8 OU as stuff like Rillaboom could clean up opposing teams easily and forced you to run a momentum suck.
- Zamazenta's best matchup would probably be against offense, but it doesn't seem completely unstoppable
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta in Electric Terrain: 318-375 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Zamazenta can revenge kill Tapu Koko if it is weakened a bit, but watch out.
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta: 174-205 (53.5 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Urshifu Wicked Blow vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta on a critical hit: 130-153 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Zamazenta can switch in on the otherwise impossible to switch in on Urshifu once, which is something many offensive teams will appreciate, I think.
252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa Close Combat vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta: 156-185 (48 - 56.9%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO
It really prevents Pheromosa, especially physical variants from running too wild. You should know that Specs Focus blast does like 90%, however, so checking any sort of special variant is much tougher.
252 SpA Zeraora Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta: 85-102 (26.1 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Remember this guy? If you have something like Slowbro you can pivot around while chipping Zamazenta down with Volt Switch.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Grassy Glide vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta in Grassy Terrain: 251-296 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 232-274 (82.5 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. +1 0 HP / 4 Def Zamazenta in Grassy Terrain: 247-292 (76 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Matchups against more offensive Bulu. Zamazenta can revenge kill if it is weakened a bit but probably shouldn't be pivoting in.
Compared to regular Zamazenta it is even easier to wall by non-fairies since it can't run Choice Band, but it would have a much better typing (immune to toxic) and even more insane bulk, letting it bear down on offensive mons even more. I think at that point it would be too centralizing for the offensive meta to deal with. If every team ends up running Zapdos, Toxapex, or Slowbro though, it could be fine but I don't really have as strong of an opinion on it. So no, I don't think it should be unbanned.
- What about Zamazenta-Crowned?
- I think Zamazenta would be worth trying in OU since its power level seems more in line with some of the more recent additions that are being trialed in OU
- Although it is capable of 2HKOing much of OU, it needs absolutely pristine prediction in order to pull it off, and it still has a few hard counters
- I don't think the Howl set would break it since it's still not really strong enough after a boost and has coverage issues
- Thanks to its great bulk and speed, it will be excellent against offense, but I think its shortcomings against common defensive mons hold it back a bit
- I don't think Zamazenta-Crowned should be unbanned
Thanks for reading.
Calcs:
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 139-165 (33 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 248+ Def Hippowdon: 208-246 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 172-204 (56.5 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 116-138 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 199-235 (49.2 - 58.1%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Zamazenta-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 133-157 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zamazenta-Crowned in Electric Terrain: 261-307 (80.3 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Zamazenta-Crowned would sacrifice the great bulk for the ability to break through pretty much any wall in OU, essentially making it an Urshifu that also happens to be incredibly fast and specially bulky. Zamazenta-Crowned is simply a fast Rhyperior without lefties/choice band, which means it is infinitely more wallable and breakable, and as long as Urshifu stays around it won't have WishPort Clef to heal it up again.
