-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Pokémon Donphan
- Thread starter Milkshook
- Start date
- Status
That's weird... he had one yesterday (I was reading it) but I can't find it today? If this is the case what is he still doing in OU? Is his usage really that high? o.0
Donphan seems to keep getting hated on every generation. Even back in the height of Gen 3 I could recall people calling him the most overrated Pokemon in OU.
The big reason is probably that he fulfills a specific niche and isn't just a very simple add-on to your team. And nobody wants to struggle fitting in a support Pokemon into their team. While he may not be the best at anything that he does, I think he does those things enough that if you really can't fit rock-setter, hazard remover, bird check on your team, he can come in and do those in a pinch.
He may not be the best at those things individually, but the fact that he can do a combination of those in 1 of your 6 slots is where his value lies.
The big reason is probably that he fulfills a specific niche and isn't just a very simple add-on to your team. And nobody wants to struggle fitting in a support Pokemon into their team. While he may not be the best at anything that he does, I think he does those things enough that if you really can't fit rock-setter, hazard remover, bird check on your team, he can come in and do those in a pinch.
He may not be the best at those things individually, but the fact that he can do a combination of those in 1 of your 6 slots is where his value lies.
Even Seismitoad got an OU analysis last gen, simply because it could set up Stealth Rock and Gastrodon could not.
Perhaps the QCs are a bit too overload by jobs as for now? Well, if Donphan can maintain its usage, which is well above the cut off despite there may be some decrease, than it will eventually get one.
But Seismitoad really makes me laugh.
But Seismitoad really makes me laugh.
Almost every Aegislash used by decent players is mixed.
-spe base 60 with 0 IVs is 112, neutral base 50 with 31 IVs is 136....
And we're talking about a situation where Donphan switches into Aegislash so Donphan wouldn't even get to move if it had ANY prior damage, Donphan has a niche in OU, but generally it is outclassed and it wouldn't surprise me to see it drop to UU this gen.
Seismitoad is actually pretty decent this gen I have found, he got an attack stat buff too
I think that sums it up better than anyone else has on here. Thanks!
Yes it got rejected and by now probably deleted as well. The thread was up for quite a while and then out of the blue it got 3 rejections and was closed...
Regarding his OU status that doesnt matter though. As the name implies beeing OU or not is due to usage and not what the QC considers to be OU worthy and Donphan is still top 50 or something so he will probably stay there for quite a while to come.
So he stays in OU but doesn't get an OU analysis? Or is someone else going to do one for him?
This pretty much.
Let's steer this convo away from QC and back to metagame discussion.
Basically, people are pissy that Donphan isn't usable in UU because it has enough usage to make the OU cutoff.
Smogon switching from usage based tiers to viability tiers would be interesting, but that's a convo for a different thread.
well most people only use pokemon that are viable or have thier niche, so really its already based on viability
Not necessarily true. Most players are bad and don't know what is actually viable, that's why we see wonderful mons such as Terrakion, Manaphy, Medicham, Gardevoir, Blastoise, Scolipede, Tornadus-T, LANDORUS-I stuck in BL/UU and crap like Donphan, Galvantula, FORRETRESS(what does this thing even accomplishes?) is comfortably OU.
If I may, people find use in pokemon at all levels. Including Forretress, back in Gen 5.
http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/forretress/uber
So, how is he useless?
well galvantula and forretress are setup and not much else, and donphan is a good spinner and rock setter. maybe theyre outclassed by other OU mons, but they still do thier job
I don't get who is overshadowing Manaphy, Scolipede, Landorus-I or Tornadus-T honestly. Besides, having access to both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock isn't very impressive. The teams that usually want Rapid Spin instead of Defog are Hyper Offensive teams that not only have a much better hazard layer in Deoxys-Defense, but also can't afford to lose all their momentum, something that happens with Forretress and Donphan, but not with Blastoise and Excadrill.
Sticky Web is not that good with the amount of Pokèmon straight up immune or that don't actually care about it in the current metagame, and Smeargle does this better anyway since is able to also lay Stealth Rocks and put a Pokémon to sleep, not to mention it's rather versatile since it can also be a SmashPass set.
Is it sad that my only 1850 teams in XY (before the ladder reset) had a donphan and a forretress respectively or do people just really not understand what these two Pokemon do?
Forretress loses more momentum than deoxys d? Please explain yourself.
Deoxys-D is always a lead, and has taunt as well to mess with other leads, so it doesn't really lose any momentum. Forretress might have Volt Switch to regain the lost momentum, but the fact that many dangerous setup sweepers(SD Garchomp and Diggersby, Rock Polish Lando-I, etc) are ground types isn't really good news. It also is pretty easy to spinblock against him, something that obviously don't apply with Excadrill and Blastoise(the two main spinblockers are ground weak, Dark Pulse hits every spinblocker hard as fuck).
It has a niche as a Pure Defensive Ground Type With Both Hazards And Hazard Removal. And by Niche I mean like there is a tiny fraction of teams that actually want this thing. Excadrill is better for teams that rely on even the slightest amount of offensive presence (Contrary to what Donphan fans will have you believe Excadrill still has some merit defensively due to 110 HP and a good set of resistances.) Hippowdon is a far, far better defensive ground type for reasons I shouldn't even have to explain and Skarmory can also do the Removal + Hazards combo as well. For that matter, I might as well point out that Defog, while inferior to Rapid Spin, still "cheapens" the value of what was already kind of an overrated move that seems to make even the shittest pokemon see popularity regardless of it's performance (Case in point: Gen 5 Donphan, Hitmontop, Claydol, Sandslash and Wartortle).
PS: Ice Shard won't hit for anything whatsoever unless it's Mence/Dnite after SR/Chomp/Landy-I. Just pick something like Toxic instead.
-1 0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 80-96 (20.9 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 88-108 (24.8 - 30.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
PS: Ice Shard won't hit for anything whatsoever unless it's Mence/Dnite after SR/Chomp/Landy-I. Just pick something like Toxic instead.
-1 0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 80-96 (20.9 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Donphan Ice Shard vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 88-108 (24.8 - 30.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Poison Heal
Garchomp is not a sweeper contrary to popular belief and diggersby with rock polish can't do anything to many common pokes, so forretress can easily stay in and let diggers by setup while you scatter spikes all around its feet. And what would deoxys d do if something like pin sir decided to come in (a much better sweeper than anything you mentioned)? Taunt so that it only gets one swords dance off?
- Status