Don't use that, use this.
*Approved by Pocket*
Have you ever found yourself asking your opponent why they're using Charizard over something like Heatran or even Infernape? Or why your friend is using Nasty Plot Lucario instead of Swords Dance? If so, then you should probably redirect them to this thread here. The purpose of this thread is to discuss overrated Pokemon or sets and suggest a better alternative. I remember there being a thread very similar to this one a very long time ago during the BW1 era, but a lot has changed since then, and I think it's a good idea to reintroduce this thread so newer players can hopefully get a better idea on what they should or shouldn't be using. Besides, the RU forum has reintroduced this kind of thread, so I think OU should too. The goal of this thread is to better our players, plain and simple. Here is an example of how you should format your response. PLEASE READ THIS EXAMPLE BEFORE POSTING.*Approved by Pocket*
Cloyster @ White Herb/ Focus Sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
Cloyster poor reputation as a bad sweeper comes from this set. White Herb and Focus Sash are generally poor item choices as the def drops are near irrelevant and focus sash is broken by hazards/sandstorm. Aside from that neither item provide a way for cloyster to beat its checks. Adamant nature is also pretty bad as a nature choice since every scarfer from scarf salamence and up will be able to revenge kill it. Razor Shell is also bad as it fails to ko lucario and doesnt do much to magnezone. Fortunately a few changes can drastically improve cloyster effectiveness
Cloyster @ King's Rock / Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Hydro Pump/Ice Shard
With King's Rock Cloyster can easily flinch past bulk threats like Ferrothorn, Jellicent, Vaporeon and others due to a very high 40% chance of flinching due to icicle spear and rock blast multihit capabilities along with King's Rock. Hydro Pump will easily ohko Lucario and deals 75.92 - 89.81% to Magnezone meaning it must be really healthy if it wants to tank a hit. It will also easily ohko Skarmory after stealth rock damage something no other move can do. On the other hand ice shard can be used to ohko scarf Latios after a boost since its the only common scarfer in the tier that outspeeds a boosted Cloyster. It also ohko Breloom before it can mach punch you and allows Cloyster to have some utility early game by revenge killing genies and dragons.
Conclusion: The Kings Rock/Life Orb set is far superior to the outdated White Herb/Focus Sash set because these items are better fit to Cloyster's ability to sweep. The huge flinch chance that Kings Rock brings can oftentimes win battles, and the extra power that Life Orb brings lets Cloyster break through bulkier Pokemon, such as Ferrothorn, who has a 50% chance of being OHKOed by Icicle Spear after SR, and Skarmory having close to a 75% chance after to turns of SR damage. With priority running rampant throughout the tier, SR being on every team, and T-Tar being one of the most used Pokemon in OU, Focus Sash Cloyster is very hard to pull off, and requires way too much support to benefit a team as much as the other set. The White Herb only really benefits its defense stat, but when Cloyster is already outspeeding a majority of the tier and it's already murdered by Special Attacks, the drop in defenses aren't that significant. All in all, if Cloyster wants to sweep, it needs to go a more aggressive approach by boosting its power or possibly crippling the opponent with flinch. With these items, Cloyster becomes a killing machine.
Archive:
Don't use this
Haxorus @ Lum Berry
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Superpower
Haxorus is generally outclassed by every other Dragon type in the OU tier. Dragonite is better at using Dragon Dance, Salamence is a better choice scarfer, Garchomp is better at wall breaking, and Kyurem-B is better at demolishing stall. When you factor this in as well as Haxorus "low" base 97 speed, it really is out classed by it's Dragon type cousins.
Use this
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail
Garchomp has better typing, and has more speed. The power difference isn't that much, but the speed is pretty crucial, as Garchomp is not outspeed by Hydreigon, Thundurus-T, (non scarfed) Salamence. It's superior bulk allows it more set up oppertunites, and a STAB EarthQuake is something Haxorus can only dream of.
While it doesn't completely outclass, Garchomp is generally better.
Cloyster @ White Herb/ Focus Sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Razor Shell
Why it's bad: Cloyster poor reputation as a bad sweeper comes from this set. White Herb and Focus Sash are generally poor item choices as the def drops are near irrelevant and focus sash is broken by hazards/sandstorm. Aside from that neither item provide a way for cloyster to beat its checks. Adamant nature is also pretty bad as a nature choice since every scarfer from scarf salamence and up will be able to revenge kill it. Razor Shell is also bad as it fails to ko lucario and doesnt do much to magnezone. Fortunately a few changes can drastically improve cloyster effectiveness
Cloyster @ King's Rock
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Hydro Pump/Ice Shard
Why it's better: With King's Rock Cloyster can easily flinch past bulk threats like ferrothorn, jellicent, vaporeon and others due to a very high 40% chance of flinching due to icicle spear and rock blast multihit capabilities along with King's Rock. Hydro Pump will easily ohko lucario and deals 75.92 - 89.81% to magnezone meaning it must be really healthy if it wants to tank a hit. It will also easily ohko skarmory after stealth rock damage something no other move can do. On the other hand ice shard can be used to ohko scarf latios after a boost since its the only common scarfer in the tier that outspeeds a boosted cloyster. It also ohko breloom before it can mach punch you and allows cloyster to have some utility early game by revenge killing genies and dragons.
Don't use this
Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 96 Atk / 252 HP / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
Metagross has sadly fallen into the bottom of the barrel in OU. It's outclassed by either Tyranitar, Scizor, or Jirachi. Scizor is a much better Pursuit steel type trapper, as it offers a STAB U-turn. Jirachi outclasses Metagross because of it's superior special bulk, move pool, and reliable recovery. Metagross' only niche in OU is a steel type that can Pursuit trap and set up SR (which then it's pretty much outclassed by Tyranitar, who can trap better and set up SR too). It's worn down pretty easily, and it's solid niche in gen 4 (an SR lead with Explosion) has disappeared, as leads no longer exist in OU, and Explosion's power was cut in half.
Use this
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 224 SDef / 252 HP / 32 Spd
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
Jirachi has superior special bulk, as well as acting more like a team player in offering Wish and SR support. Serene Grace is a great (or terrible depending the way you look at it) ability for Jirachi, as Iron Head has a 60% chance flinch rate, and Body Slam has a 60% paralysis rate. Jirachi can consistently switch into powerful threats like Latios and Alakazam, and Jirachi has a much better move pool, allowing it to perform different roles.
(btw, sorry for the double posts, but I thought it'd make more sense since they're different posts)
I guess I might as well contribute to my own thread. This one has been bothering me for a long time, and I feel that it needs to be addressed.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Toxic / Ice Beam / Wish
- Roar
- Rest
Why it's bad: Vaporeon has found its niche in OU by becoming an utter annoyance with the HydraRest combination that has left many teams without Grass or Electric-types punching themselves in the dick. Vaporeon is bulky and hard to kill, but that's where it ends. Rain teams are already full of Water-type Pokemon, and adding another bland Mono Water Pokemon into the mix just doesn't really help that much. Outside of being annoying and crippling the occasional wall, Vaporeon doesn't really do that much for a rain team. Although it can pass some nice Wishes, why in the hell would you use a Wish Vaporeon when you can use Jirachi, who benefits a rain team a LOT more than Vaporeon. What's funny, is that even Politoed gives Vaporeon competition. The Defensive Toed set is no where near as hard to take down as Vaporeon, but it supports the team utility wise far better than Vaporeon does. My point is, Vaporeon is a decent bulky Water Pokemon with meh utility, but it's outclassed entirely by none other than.......
Jellicent @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 44 Spd / 216 Def / 248 HP
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Recover
- Taunt
Why this is better: Jellicent's magnificent Ghost/Water typing gives it a ton of useful resistances and a immunities, and on top of that Jellicent has amazing amount of utility for rain teams. First off, it completely hard walls Keldeo, a huge threat to rain teams. Next off, it has access to Will-O-Wisp to burn opposing physical attacks such as Mamoswine, Landorus-T, and Kyurem-B. Even if you happen to lose the weather war, Jellicent will always have a reliable means of recovery with Recover, restoring back 50% of its health each time it uses it. It also has access to Taunt to keep Ferrothorn from setting up on it, while Vaporeon is pretty much forced to switch out. I just feel that the sheer presence of Jellicent just makes Vaporeon that much worse, and in my opinion, Jellicent should always be your first choice. Unless your team is really weak to Banded Tyranitar or something, Jellicent should be used over Vaporeon 99% of the time.
May as well use one of the examples from the OP cause I'm feeling unoriginal...
Don't use:
Lucario @ Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Aura Sphere
- Vacuum Wave / Hidden Power [Ice] / Dark Pulse
- Vacuum Wave / Hidden Power [Ice] / Dark Pulse
I'm honestly astounded every time I see this on the ladder. Special Luke was good (was it? I wasn't there) in very early DPP and it may be good in Smash Bros... oh, and it finally received a way of amplifying Lucario's statistically superior Special Attack in BW; but Lucario is just too slow and frail to run a boosting set that does not include reliable priority (more on this later). Vacuum Wave is neat and everything BUT you are losing vital coverage on something by doubling up on Fighting stab (you can say that about Breloom but Breloom has Spore). Dark Pulse is the only way to hit Latios, Latias, Alakazam, Gengar, and Jellicent, and can only do so on the switch for four of them (not plausible if you're boosting). HP Ice is vital for fast dragons like Salamence and Garchomp. Vacuum Wave doesn't OHKO Breloom or Conkeldurr while both can just Mach Punch it to death.
Use:
Lucario @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
Trait: Justified / Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Crunch / Bullet Punch
- ExtremeSpeed
This is a classic set that dominated the end of DPP and is pretty much the ultimate end-game cleaner. ExtremeSpeed is a powerful priority move that fixes Luke's bad Speed, while Fighting STAB is always wonderful especially with a move as powerful as Close Combat. Even physically defensive mons don't like facing it. It OHKOes Ferrothorn after Stealth Rock while Skarmory has to resort to phazing it to avoid the 2HKO. Basically, if your opponent gives you a chance to set up Swords Dance and their team is sufficiently weakened, Lucario can clean up pretty nicely.
No one is contributing :(
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bulk Up
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Ice Punch / Payback
Why it's bad: This set saw success in early BW1 when Terrakion was on every team and Conkeldurr found a lot of chances to setup. Sadly, a lot has changed since then. Not only is Conkeldurr extremely slow, it's also vulnerable to powerful special attacks like Hydro Pump and Fire Blast that is commonly thrown at Conk. This sets biggest roadblocks are either one of two things; Jellicent or Landorus-T. If you choose Payback, then Landorus-T/Gliscor walls Conkeldurr to hell and back. With Ice Punch, Jellicent can just spam Shadow Ball and wear it out. This set finds little opprtunities to setup anymore, and even when it finds time to setup, it's way too slow to take advantage of its boosts. It's too easily revenge killed and too vulnerable to any sort of weather offense. This set isn't bad, but it's not as good as it used to be.
Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 116 SDef / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- ThunderPunch
- Mach Punch
Why this is better: This is the set that has managed to carve Conkeldurr a niche over the plethora of other Fighting-types in the tier. Before now, everyone seemed to ignore that a majority of Conkeldurr's coverage moves are all boosted by Sheer Force, and combined with LO, some of his attacks surpass even the Choice Banded set in power. This set takes advantage of Conk's overall decent bulk and amazing coverage to rip holes in the opposing team. Nothing is really safe from this set. Skarmory is decimated by ThunderPunch, Landorus-T is pummeled by Ice Punch, and Drain Punch keeps Conkeldurr from being stalled out. Mach Punch is for faster Pokemon like Lucario and Terrakion. The best part about this set is that until the opponent knows for sure that you're running Sheer Force, they'll be wary of trying to burn Conkeldurr. Basically, this set is about as powerful as its retired Choice Banded set with the ability to switch moves, and boltbeam coverage. Definitely use this if your team is in need of a wallbreaker, because it doesn't get much better than this.
Don't use this
Victreebel @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 120 Atk / 136 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Weather Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth
While Sum teams aren't all that common anyway, you do often see Victreebel in Sun teams. The only reason it's used over Venusaur is that it gets weather ball, a base 100 power fire type move (in Sun). I really don't think this is a good enough reason to use Victreebel over Venusaur, as there's a massive downfall in it's speed. Even in the Sunlight, Victreebel is getting out sped by Scarf Terrakion and Scarf Latios, both of which are out speed by Timid Venusaur. It does have higher attacking stats, but the speed is just too important to let it pass by.
Use this
Venusaur @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SAtk / 180 Spd / 72 HP / 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / [Ice]
- Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
- Growth
Venusaur is the best Chlorophyll sweeper there is. It's generally a staple on most Sun teams. It's moderately bulky, allowing to switch into threats such as Keldeo and Politoed moderately well. Timid nature is used to get the jump on Scarf Latios and Scarf Terrakion, both big threats to sun teams. Growth is used to boost Venusaur's special attack to pretty respectable levels. Giga Drain is STAB and offers nice recovery when facing something like Chansey. Hidden Power Fire is used to hit steel types such as Scizor, Skarmory, and Jirachi. HP Ice may be used if you'd rather have less trouble facing Dragon types like Dragonite and Latios. Sludge Bomb is a great option to hit things like Latias (when you're not running HP ice), but it generally gets pretty poor coverage, so I'd go with Sleep Powder.
Do not use...
Azumaril @ Choice Band
Trait: Huge Power
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Waterfall
- Superpower
- Aqua Jet
- Ice Punch
Why should I not use this?: Azumaril, while strong, is just outclassed too heavily by SD Feraligatr. While Azu has "more immediate power", Feraligatr has better bulk and is stronger after a +2 boost, and is overall more suited for the metagame because it is a better to top OU threats like Keldeo or Lati@s (since its bulky enough to live these hits at full HP). Azumaril isn't as strong as Gatr is after a +2 boost, and being locked into AJ is really bad too. This worked much better when Excadril was OU since the immediate power was something to be longed for, but it ultimately isn't better than Feraligatr anymore.
Use this instead!
Feraligatr @ Mystic Water
Trait: Torrent
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 176 Hp / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Superpower / Crunch / Ice Punch
Why Feraligatr?: It's better bulk and strength after a +2 boost is something that it can boast over Azu. Ultimately, Azu's immediate power is obsolete in this metagame where Gatr's bulk and strength are just much better than Azu. Gatr checks Keldeo better, which is HUGE in this metagame where Keldeo is a top tier threat, as well as being able to live Terrakion's CC and Lati@s Draco Meteor. Also, by using Crunch and Superpower, it's a more reliable answer to Ferrothorn or Jellicent since it can switch up attacks and defeat them.
WITH NO DRIZZLE SUPPORT
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Protect / Substitute
Why it's bad. This set is by no means a terrible set, however without rain support it is an inferior set. Protect and Substitute are only used on Tentacruel with Drizzle support because it has excellent access to Rain Dish recovery. When Tentacruel is not supported by drizzle, both of these moves quickly become inferior, especially if one is using Tentacruel on a sand or hail team. I think for some reason people forget that Tentacruel has a rest of a movepool, as this is the only thing listed on site, Tentacruel has plenty of other toys to use if not supported by Drizzle.
Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic / Toxic Spikes
- Ice Beam
Why this is better. The appeal of using Ice Beam first off is that you aren't using a pretty much useless move, as Substitute and Protect aren't doing much without Drizzle support. Ice Beam is generally the best option here, hitting incoming Dragons-types hard or offering a relatively decent check to them, in particular Ice Beam is very useful against incoming Latios and Latias. It also scores a ton of damage against Gliscor and Landorus-T, checking the defensive versions nicely. This isn't Tentacruel's only option though. Blizzard is great to use if Tentacruel has hail support. Sludge Bomb is very useful against Breloom if one needs to check it. And Hidden Power Fire is a fine option, especially if using Tentacruel on a sun team. Tentacruel has plenty of those tools to play with Knock Off, Rest, Giga Drain, ect although generally they are inferior to the above options.
Also, on Rain Dish, Liquid Ooze in theory may seem like a better option, but leeching moves aren't common enough, only really found on Ferrothorn, to justify its use over the extra recovery in the opponents rain.
Here's another Pokemon that I feel is a bit overrated in the wall breaking department.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
Why it's bad: Like many other Pokemon, MixMence isn't neccesarily a bad Pokemon, it just faces so much competition from other wall breakers. Besides, wall breakers are rather uncommon in OU because of most of them are rather susceptible to being revenge killed. This set faces competition from even Hydreigon, who has an even wider range of coverage. I guess it's still a decent addition to teams that have trouble breaking through walls such as Ferrothorn, Hippowdon, Heatran, and Skarmory, but other than that, there's one thing that gives this set so much competition that MixMence almost seems obsolete.
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature
- Outrage
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Earth Power / Roost / Draco Meteor
Why this is better: Kyurem-B is easily the greatest wall breaker in the OU tier, and it's no surprise. Nothing in OU can rival it's massive 170 base attack and even its above average 120 base SpA. This set is simple, because it breaks through all the common OU walls such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Forretress, Rotom-W, and Landorus-T, then proceeds to rape everything with Outrage. If you want Kyurem-B to act like MixMence, it can even run both Outrage and Draco Meteor on the same set in order to give it an alternative STAB move that won't lock itself in. Although it's slower then Salamence and posses more weaknesses, it's coverage and sheer power gives it that much more of a reason to use it over Salamence. It's bulky, powerful, and extremely versatile. I don't see why you would ever use MixMence over Kyurem-B to be quite honest. KyuB is just too cool for school.
I've got one!
Don't use
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SDef
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam / Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Why is this bad?
There's a reason that people think Gastrodon shouldn't be OU. This is the most common set used, but it also happens to be a bad one. Specially defensive Gastrodon is just an inefficient use of its bulk, typing, and ability. Gastrodon can already take special attacks pretty well even without investment. But without defensive investment, it is easily O-2HKOd by most physical attackers, and only succeeds in walling special attackers more than it has to. Most importantly, this set loses to Keldeo, a Pokémon that Gastrodon should, by all reasoning, wall to hell and back.
Use this instead!
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold / Brave Nature
- Ice Beam / Earthquake
- Scald
- Recover
- Toxic
Why is this better?
One word: Keldeo. With this spread, Gastrodon can survive any Keldeo's Secret Sword (even Choice Specs!) while also getting a useful +1 SAtk boost from its Hydro Pump and taking laughable damage from Hidden Power and Icy Wind. Even with minimal special defense investment, Gastrodon can already wall many prominent special attackers. For example, it can recover stall Life Orb Latios and Latias's Draco Meteors. It can still wall Thundurus-T, Specs/ScarfToed (without HP Grass), Jolteon, Alakazam, Gengar, and Sub CM Jirachi (in fact, this set walls Psyshock Jirachi better). More than that, it can tank plenty of physical hits as well. Adamant Dragonite has only a 22% chance to 2HKO, whereas Ice Beam is a OHKO after Stealth Rock. The same can be said of Scarf Salamence, but it has no chance of 2HKOing, and Ice beam is a OHKO even without Rocks! It can also wall Sheer Force Conkeldurr, Choice Band Scizor, Feraligatr, Double Dance Landorus-T, Scarf Terrakion, Toxicroak (if you have Earthquake), and may other common rain Pokémon. People often complain about how Gastrodon sucks, but that's because they haven't used this set!
Who loves being controversial? I love being controversial. I do I do I do-oo!
Don't use this!
Terrakion @ Life Orb/Rock Gem
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake / Quick Attack / X-Scissor
Why it's bad: In a few words, Terrakion is never safe when setting up. As we all know, Fighting/Rock is the best STAB combination we have ever seen in OU (only Reshiram could be said to have better STABs, and that's counting Turboblaze), but it leaves you horribly horribly vulnerable defensively. Terrakion is weak to six types. The other two type combinations with more weaknesses are Grass/Psychic and Grass/Ice with 7 apiece. So while +2 Terrakion is very much impossible to switch into, he's so laughably easy to revenge as have not even bothered setting up. Substitute mitigates this, but is still very far from perfect.
Use this instead!
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Rock Slide / Quick Attack / Earthquake / Sacred Sword / Hidden Power Ice
Why it's better: Here, Terrakion shines as the hit-and-run wallbreaking juggernaut of "Fuck you" he was always meant to be. He's not worrying about Scarf Keldeo coming in, because if he does on the wrong attack, whoops, there goes Keldeo. Now, perhaps this is all a product of my own poor use of Terrakion, but I feel that it's fair to say that "Greatest Choice Band User Ever" does not equal "Good Boosting Attacker". To be entirely honest, the 3rd and 4th move slots are mostly filler. Fighting/Rock truly is the best STAB combination in OU, and Terrakion is more than tailor-made to crush everything in his path with just his STABs.
SR Jirachi was already offered as an alternative to SR Metagross, but I'd like to offer another alternative that can overcome some of Metagross's downfalls that Jirachi can't, while also being a better analogue to Metagross's old role rather than being something completely different.
Don't use this:
Metagross @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Atk / 160 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Pursuit
- Earthquake / Hammer Arm
Why it's bad: Metagross has a ton of issues that prevent it from being ideal in the current metagame, the two main ones being that it's easily worn down and that its coverage is very awkward, always leaving more to be desired. For example, the set above (listed on site) has trouble with bulky waters, Thundurus-T, Skarm, and Volcarona. Sure you can swap out one of your current coverage moves for ice punch, thunder punch, or rock slide to help cover those threats, but just needing all of those options on top of what it already has shows how bad Metagross is as an offensive SR setter. I won't knock Agiligross or other offensive Metagross sets, but there are so many better offensive and defensive mons you can fit rocks onto. If you really need a steel type to set up rocks and check dragons that's not weak to fighting, you can
Use this:
Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 2 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Earthquake / Toxic
Why it's better: With levitate, Bronzong cannot be worn down by spikes, increasing its survivability a ton. Its ground immunity lets it handle dragons much better, allowing it to switch into physical dragons not locked into outrage directly, unlike Metagross. And on top of that, you are no longer Lando-T's bitch; you make it yours quite easily. Gyro ball and HP ice allow Bronzong to check a number of offensive threats effectively, and earthquake is there to hit your opponent's steels. I prefer toxic in the last slot though, as even with earthquake, Bronzong fares poorly against Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Ferrothorn, and Heatran. Toxic is great for luring and dealing with your opponent's bulky waters as they try to burn you. By changing your SR setter from Metagross to Bronzong, you essentially trade crappy coverage for more specialized (still not great) coverage and much more utility, which is well worth it in my opinion.
FOR HYPEROFFENSIVE TEAMS
Don't use this:
Scolipede @ Life Orb
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Megahorn
- Earthquake
Why it sucks: Scolipede will probably set up one layer of spikes for hyperoffensive teams, but those kinds of teams require as many layers of Spikes as possible, and Scolipede's bulk isn't that great, considering its terrible HP stat, which sits at a laughable 60. Of course Scolipede has a high speed stat, but that doesn't prevent it from being revenge killed by choice scarf users, which might OHKO it or limit it to just one layer of spikes. Also, hyperoffensive teams don't need Toxic Spikes. Sure, Megahorn OHKOes Lati@s and does a lot of damage to everything that does not resist it and also beats both Magic Bounce users. Sure, Earthquake OHKOes Heatran. Scolipede is not a very bad Pokemon, it's just that...
Accelgor @ Focus Sash
Trait: Unburden
EVs: 88 HP / 232 SpA / 188 Spe
IVs: 0 Def / 0 SpD
Modest Nature
- Spikes
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Miss
- Final Gambit
...it's outclassed by Accelgor imo. With a blazing 145 base Speed stat, it can simply use a Modest nature to hit as hard as possible, but not only that. When combining Focus Sash with Accelgor's low bulk and unburden, it can suddenly outpace anything that exists (without a priority move) and set up a second layer of Spikes, which can prove crucial for hyperoffensive teams as Terrakion, for example, can fail to ohko that Jellicent without a second layer of Spikes, which can assure the OHKO. Also, Accelgor has Final Gambit if the user sees that Spikes don't affect the opposing team that much (because of Levitate, flying-types or stuff with magic guard), which when combined with 88 HP EVs can allow accelgor to bring down 4 HP Keldeo and anything with less HP than that. It can also use Final Gambit to prevent a Rapid Spinner such as forretress to use Rapid Spin, which might allow you to bring a Fire-type pokemon or Gengar. Focus Blast takes care of Tyranitar (unless it decides to miss, hence focus miss) and Heatran, although it doesn't ohko the latter. Bug Buzz can also take care of those pesky Espeon and Xatu that try to show up.
So, in my opinion, Scolipede should not be used on hyperoffensive teams. Balance teams and stall teams that need fast Toxic Spikes can depend on Scolipede, however, so it's not a complete waste.
Don't use:
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Substitute / Fire Fang / Aqua Tail
Yache Berry Chomp is not a bad set-- however is is INCREDIBLY overrated. My personal theory is that this "fear of the mighty Yache-Chomp" is a remnant of how this set single-handedly broke DP OU. Garchomp was incredibly good (easily #1), but manageable-- until Yache Chomp was discovered. That's when it starting killing Cresselias and jumped to gain almost double the usage of #2 (which became Tyranitar in the Yache-Chomp meta...).
All that said, BW is NOT early DP-- where practically nothing could revenge Yache-Chomp's combination of bulk and speed. Lati@s is unbanned (which is huge), and the increase of faster Pokemon like Terrakion, Keldeo, and Alakazam really put a damper on Yache Chomp. Choice Scarf users are in abundance, and better priority in Scizor, Breloom, and D-Nite as well as the very common Mamoswine all make Yache Chomp far less intimidating.
If you NEED that third coverage move in Aqua Tail or Fire Fang it's ok, but this set is a lot more dangerous overall:
Use:
Garchomp @ Salac Berry
Trait: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Earthquake
- Substitute
Salac Chomp wins games. Period. It's still got that "holy shit it's Garchomp behind a substitute" scare factor, power, and Speed to mess up the opponent in the early game-- but Salac adds an entire new level of terror to this mon. As mentioned, the metagame's SPEED is the biggest thing keeping Garchomp in check. Salac eliminates this problem almost completely. Blitzing past Lati@s and Scarf Mence completely changes the threat level this Pokemon represents. The fact that it can beat Scarf Terrakioni one-on-one, and that every faster scarfer is pursuit bait make this Pokemon incredibly difficult to stop with the few Pokes that can reliably outspeed it. Tyranitar's pursuit doesn't help the situation either.
Garchomp is already an almost flawless Pokemon, and a top metagame threat-- but add on the dual-threat of SD Wall Breaking / Sweeping, as WELL as a potential boosted speed Sweep/Clean-- or even BOTH (+2 / +1 is not that hard to get and sweep with), and you are facing down a beast that is incredibly hard to handle. All of Garchomp's sets are quite dangerous, but this is probably the most dangerous.
Don't use:
Volcarona under Rain
Timid
4 HP / 252 SPA / 252 SPE
@ Leftovers / Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Bug Buzz
-Quiver Dance
-Hidden Power Water
Point of the matter is, Hurricane is just too weak as a main attack without STAB. HP Water is also too weak to take on the game's Steel-types, even with Rain boost-- Mixed Skarmory and Jirachi can cause this set a lot of undue problems. Probably the worst thing about this Volcarona is that it's not that effective against Sun teams, when Volcarona should be netting Rain teams an advantage against sun. Its mediocre physical defense can be a problem too, especially when you're trying to value it for its Fighting Resist. Also with the popularity of CS Terrakion and Keldeo (where Hydreigon was the top Scarfer in BW1), this Pokemon is a little too slow to be truly intimidating in BW2. Especially without STAB on its main attack. Volc under rain is more of a BW gimmick than an effective BW2 poke.
Try Using:
Moltres under rain
Modest
4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SPE
@ Life Orb
-Hurricane
-Fire Blast
-Agility
-Hidden Power Fighting / Roost
Everything that Rain Volc's original creators wanted it to accomplish, BW2 Rain Moltres does better. With STAB and 125 SpA, it hits like a TANK with Hurricane-- knocking the wind out of even Pokemon that resist it. STAB makes it a completely different beast. Because of the greater popularity of Jirachi and Mix-Skarm, you really want Fire Blast in BW2-- even under rain. Fire Blast destroys numerous key threats, even under rain, just because Moltres is so damn powerful. Also important, Agility lets it out pace literally everything-- including Scarf Keldeo/Terrakion/Latios. The fact that Moltres can out-pace all of these with Modest makes it all the more intimidating. Furthermore, Moltres' better all around bulk and interesting defensive typing make it a great asset-- more than Volcarona could hope to be. That Ground immunity giving it switch-ins and an immunity to Spikes is a huge boon as well.
Basically, Moltres hits harder (thanks to modest and STAB Hurricane), wall breaks better, adds more defensive benefit, and is also a more lethal sweeper thanks to its superior Speed-- and hell, thanks to STAB, Moltres' Hurricane is still hitting harder at +0 than Volc's does at +1.
Rules:
- Do not use this thread to bash certain Pokemon
- Don't post obviously bad choices, like Physical Latias ----> LO Latias for example
- Make sure to give a solid explanation as to why a certain Pokemon or set is inferior, and vice versa
- Each comparison must end with a conclusion paragraph summing up your reasoning
- Don't get off topic please, or else your post will be deleted
- Don't post one liner explanations or arguments. You need to use support
- I'll be monitoring this thread very closely
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