Walling in the 1v1 sense can't really work. What does work is having one pokemon run offense, and the second pokemon run support, like what Shuckle and Dusknoir frequently do.
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Double Battle Metagame.
- Thread starter Go2Sleep02
- Start date
Is minun + plusle viable in any way in doubles? They get a handful of decent support moves in addition to the 1.5x SpAtk boost. They both learn helping hand, nasty plot, and agility. Perhaps a LO Plusle w/ Togekiss lead. Plusle uses agility, Togekiss uses follow me. Timid Plusle reaches either 578 or 634 speed, depending on +spd or not. I would use +spd (timid) to outpace kingdra. Repeat until Togekiss dies, unless you want to start attacking. Now Minun comes in. Minun uses Helping Hand, Plusle uses tbolt/hp ice/grass knot as needed. plusle w/ helping hand, plus, and LO hits 787 SpAtk or 605 SpAtk w/o LO.
Movesets:
Plusle @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
Plus
Timid
252 Spd/252 SpAtk/6 HP
Agility
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Magnet Rise/Nasty Plot/Grass Knot
Minun @ Focus Sash
Minus
???
???/???/???
Helping Hand
Agility/Magnet Rise
Thunderbolt
Grass Knot/HP Ice/Magnet Rise
So, I suppose an explanation of these sets is required.
PLUSLE: I have already explained Agility up above. Thunderbolt is STAB, and HP Ice provides BoltBeam. Magnet Rise can prevent Earthquakers from touching you, since you'll be going obnoxiously fast. Alternately, you can use Nasty Plot, particularly if you find that you have little trouble using Follow me twice with togekiss. This makes you all-powerful and unstoppable-ish. Finally, Grass knot can be used for epic coverage if need be.
MINUN: Helping Hand is, again, explained up above. You can use agility if you think you'll get a chance to pull it off, particularly through the use of your sash. If you feel better off using Magnet Rise, you may. Thunderbolt for STAB again, and the last slot is for coverage which you may have decided against above.
Bolded options indicate what I feel like would be the most optimal choice at first glance. I am unsure about Magnet Rise vs. Nasty Plot on Plusle and Agility vs. Magnet Rise on Minun.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Does anyone think this has any chance of working? Also, if this is deemed viable, what nature and evs would you recommend on Minun?
P.S. What's a typical Follow Me Togekiss moveset/ev spread/nature?
Anyone wanna help me?
The thing I see Dragonite doing is covering the things its partner cannot hit because of its amazing movepool and Inner Focus it becomes a good pairing with a Ghost type (Gengar, Dusknoir) or something that doesn't mind being flinched due to Fake Out. It has amazing coverage, and is a great partner, but can't just be slapped on any team and will probably see most use as a lead. EV and Natures are going to be personalized for what you want it to do, if your partner has trouble with say Heatran, you probably want to outspeed Heatran and hit it with an Earthquake, Superpower, or other super effective move to either weaken it or OHKO it before it has a chance to hurt your partner.
Won't Dragonites always be ev-less since they come at lv 50, or am I missing something?
For Nintendo's tournaments, yes. But everywhere else, EVs are just fine.
Why exactly don't they utilize level balance, again?
You can use the "Box Trick" which involves giving the Pokémon the desired EVs, depositing it in a box, then withdrawing it again. During this process, its stats are recalculated, so you get the boosts from EVs upon withdrawal. However, this does not work with level 100 Pokémon.
What we should be concerned with is that unless I'm mistaken, the Dragonites are always Mild; at least the Japanese version anyway, and I see little reason to believe that the American one will be different.
What we should be concerned with is that unless I'm mistaken, the Dragonites are always Mild; at least the Japanese version anyway, and I see little reason to believe that the American one will be different.
Ah. I was under the impression that the Box Trick no longer worked, perhaps because it does not work on lv 100s. Thanks.
He kinda did....
P.S. ANY thoughts on the plusle/minun strategy anyone? Especially people who know what they're talking about in terms of Doubles...
Ah. I was under the impression that the Box Trick no longer worked, perhaps because it does not work on lv 100s. Thanks.
He did....
P.S. ANY thoughts on the plusle/minun strategy anyone? Especially people who know what they're talking about in terms of Doubles...
the plusle-minun strategy could work in uu doubles (which is not really played but some people just like to see if they can win against ou's using uu pokemon) but i see it getting destroyed in a serious ou match because anything with a proirity move or anything that can take a hitdestroys plusle and minun's awful defense. also plusle does not need that much speed if you are using agility, i know you mentioned wanting to outspeed kingdra in the rain but im pretty sure if kingdra was on a rain dance team it would not be running max speed.
on the lucario copycat explosion strategy you could put chilan berry(normal resist berry) on lucario so that i could survive explosions better and it is more reliable than focus sash, if lucario has taken a wek attack and holds a chilan berry he can survive an explosion, if he holds a focus sash he cannot
on the lucario copycat explosion strategy you could put chilan berry(normal resist berry) on lucario so that i could survive explosions better and it is more reliable than focus sash, if lucario has taken a wek attack and holds a chilan berry he can survive an explosion, if he holds a focus sash he cannot
Well I didn't know for sure about kingdra, so that was just to be on the safe side. You can always switch to modest if it's not that common. Also, what exactly can take a hit from 787 SpAtk barring maybe Blissey, which seems to be fairly useless in Doubles, due to the ineffectiveness of walls. Also, it seems that special attacks are a little bit more common than physical attacks, and their SpDef is decent. I realize they aren't going to take hits, that's why plusle reaches 680 speed with 787 spatk. Do you (or others) think it could perhaps be worthy of at least testing?
I like that idea the most.
Base 500 attack x .5 because he's steel, x .5 because of the chilan berry, x .75 because of multiple targets is a 93.75 base power attack, which from a weaker exploder like Gengar he should have no trouble survivng.
Of course, the great thing about Copycat is that the pokemon who uses the move doesn't have to be fighting when the last move is performed. So you could probably get away with using a really slow exploder and then a scarfed Lucario, and just have your Ghost type sit there with Protect Imprisoned, picking off the opponents Ghost types, if they have any.
Moving away from Copycat and to the subject of Fake Out, Kangaskhan can hit Ghosts with it, thanks to Scrappy. Kind of a shame SHE doesn't learn Copycat.
I view Plusle and Minun as like a Skill Swap+Slaking type deal, it can work sure, but there are better and more solid options. Plusle hits 404 Special Attack with Timid, but is also incredibly frail and weak to Earthquake. Alakazam hits 405 Special Attack with Modest, and has a whole lot more speed to boot, though its just as frail, but because it hits that number naturally it can be paired with a Pokemon that covers its weaknesses instead of having to work with another Pokemon just as frail. Porygon-Z can do this as well, while being a bit more bulky than both, it's slightly slower than Plusle. But it has a great Ability to boost its STAB and once again can be paired with anything to help it out.
To sum it all up, Plusle and Minun require eachother to do something that an individual Pokemon can do itself with some support options from something that isn't as defensively weak.
To sum it all up, Plusle and Minun require eachother to do something that an individual Pokemon can do itself with some support options from something that isn't as defensively weak.
oh.. wow... you... sort of just revealed my entire team with that.... >.< and it was supposed to be a secret until some random debut due to PBR or something...
but yeah I use a team
Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Imprison
Trick Room
Protect
Ice Punch
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Explosion
Hypnosis
Energy Ball
Shadow Ball
Metagross @ Lum Berry
Explosion
Bullet Punch
Ice Punch
Thunderpunch
Lucario @ Choice Scarf
Close Combat
Crunch
Copycat
currently Roar, but I'm going to exchange for something else...
so yeah.. Metagross is my slow Exploder and Dusknoir just sits there blocking things..., still amazing someone else has gotten to the point where my team has been exposed prematurely XD
Thanks for the review.
IMO Shadow Sneak would be another option on Dusknior if you suspect anything has Focus sash on their side, minus Smeargle.
Just make sure that Dusknior can live through at least two hits. Metagross' Meteor Mash is a move that is usually used on Dusknior, so beware. Not a bad strategy though; I would like to see it in action. =)
Just make sure that Dusknior can live through at least two hits. Metagross' Meteor Mash is a move that is usually used on Dusknior, so beware. Not a bad strategy though; I would like to see it in action. =)
I think I've finally worked out everything about my Gravity team except for natures and EVs.
Marowak;Lightningrod@Thick Club
-Bonemerang
-Rock Slide
-Fire Blast
-Protect
Dusknoir@Leftovers
-Gravity
-Icy Wind
-Imprison
-Protect
Golduck;Damp@Life Orb
-Hydro Pump
-Blizzard
-Focus Blast
-Protect
Clefable;Magic Guard@Toxic Orb
-Gravity
-Safeguard/Helping Hand/Healing Wish
-Sing
-Meteor Mash/Double Edge
Either Golduck or Marowak can open the match, it doesn't matter which. They'll probably use Protect while Dusknoir sets up, then proceed to hammer away with their attacks of choice while Dusknoir slows things down with Icy Wind. Golduck was picked over other Damp pokemon for his speed and special attack, but if he's deemed too fragile, he'll probably get swapped out for either Poliwrath, who is the most durable and gets STAB on Focus Blast, or Politoed, who is more durable and has only slightly less Special Attack.
Clefable's is also support, able to put people to sleep with decent accuracy under Gravity, and can strike with either a recoil-less Double Edge or a 100 percent accurate Meteor Mash. Clefable COULD be swapped out for a Blissey to play Cleric with Healing Bell, since the two both learn Gravity and Sing.
Trick Room isn't really a concern on this team, since at least half the team will thrive under it anyway.
Marowak;Lightningrod@Thick Club
-Bonemerang
-Rock Slide
-Fire Blast
-Protect
Dusknoir@Leftovers
-Gravity
-Icy Wind
-Imprison
-Protect
Golduck;Damp@Life Orb
-Hydro Pump
-Blizzard
-Focus Blast
-Protect
Clefable;Magic Guard@Toxic Orb
-Gravity
-Safeguard/Helping Hand/Healing Wish
-Sing
-Meteor Mash/Double Edge
Either Golduck or Marowak can open the match, it doesn't matter which. They'll probably use Protect while Dusknoir sets up, then proceed to hammer away with their attacks of choice while Dusknoir slows things down with Icy Wind. Golduck was picked over other Damp pokemon for his speed and special attack, but if he's deemed too fragile, he'll probably get swapped out for either Poliwrath, who is the most durable and gets STAB on Focus Blast, or Politoed, who is more durable and has only slightly less Special Attack.
Clefable's is also support, able to put people to sleep with decent accuracy under Gravity, and can strike with either a recoil-less Double Edge or a 100 percent accurate Meteor Mash. Clefable COULD be swapped out for a Blissey to play Cleric with Healing Bell, since the two both learn Gravity and Sing.
Trick Room isn't really a concern on this team, since at least half the team will thrive under it anyway.
Isn't that one of the major points of playing doubles though? To work together with a synergetic strategy using two Pokemon. I wouldn't neccesarily call a doubles team a bunch of Pokemon that work well individually slapped together into a team.
You're probably right in saying that the Plusle / Minun strategy may not be the best (however, I have had moderate success with two Focus Sashes or with item clause; a Focus Sash and Shucca berry), nevertheless, it should definetely not be overlooked. I think one of the most common things that happen with P+M is the opponent not seeing it as a threat which can result in some dire consequences.
My Turn! My Turn! My Turn!
Absol @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 120 SDef, 16 Atk
Psycho Cut
Sucker Punch
Mean Look OR Curse OR Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Tauros @ Leftovers
Ability: Anger Point
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Substitute
Return
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start (sigh...)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def
Psych Up
Return
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 SAtk.
Worry Seed
Grass Knot
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire
A SHORT DESCRIPTION
I am not sure if this has been thought of before, but if it has I apologise most profusely and humbly beg for forgiveness, etcetera, etcetera.
Anyway, the team works rather like this: Absol and Tauros come out. Tauros Subs up. Absol uses Psycho Cut... on Tauros. No, I have not lost my marbles. Rinse and repeat until Absol gets a critical hit (provided Tauros does NOT die from being repeatedly bashed by everything) and Tauros gets a massive Stat boost. If Absol dies (likely) then I can bring Reggie in, copy the Anger Point boost and then the opponent has a fairly massive problem (hopefully). If Absol lives (unlikely) then I either
Absol is a bit more bulky than usual, but not by much. This should (maybe) allow him to survive some unboosted neutral hits. Tauros is a standard physical sweeper. I am debating whether to swap Leftovers for a Salac berry. I think that, in the event of a failed attempt to activate Anger Point, the Sub shall stay up, so Tauros can survive a second hit. Giggy should be able to survive (most) attacks thrown his way while nicking Tauros's boosts. And Sceptile is faster than just about anything (excluding things like Timid Deoxys-s and Ninjask that have too much staying power).
So, how is it? Oh, and please don't mention that there is only a 50% chance that this will work, I know already, and I am still cut up about people factoring luck (ie. Sand Veil) into Garchomp Danger Factor.
Absol @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 120 SDef, 16 Atk
Psycho Cut
Sucker Punch
Mean Look OR Curse OR Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Tauros @ Leftovers
Ability: Anger Point
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Substitute
Return
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start (sigh...)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def
Psych Up
Return
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 SAtk.
Worry Seed
Grass Knot
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire
A SHORT DESCRIPTION
I am not sure if this has been thought of before, but if it has I apologise most profusely and humbly beg for forgiveness, etcetera, etcetera.
Anyway, the team works rather like this: Absol and Tauros come out. Tauros Subs up. Absol uses Psycho Cut... on Tauros. No, I have not lost my marbles. Rinse and repeat until Absol gets a critical hit (provided Tauros does NOT die from being repeatedly bashed by everything) and Tauros gets a massive Stat boost. If Absol dies (likely) then I can bring Reggie in, copy the Anger Point boost and then the opponent has a fairly massive problem (hopefully). If Absol lives (unlikely) then I either
- a) attack OR
- b) Baton Pass out to someone a little more... robust.
Absol is a bit more bulky than usual, but not by much. This should (maybe) allow him to survive some unboosted neutral hits. Tauros is a standard physical sweeper. I am debating whether to swap Leftovers for a Salac berry. I think that, in the event of a failed attempt to activate Anger Point, the Sub shall stay up, so Tauros can survive a second hit. Giggy should be able to survive (most) attacks thrown his way while nicking Tauros's boosts. And Sceptile is faster than just about anything (excluding things like Timid Deoxys-s and Ninjask that have too much staying power).
So, how is it? Oh, and please don't mention that there is only a 50% chance that this will work, I know already, and I am still cut up about people factoring luck (ie. Sand Veil) into Garchomp Danger Factor.
It sounds like you have actually used Plusle and Minun. Is this true? If so, what kind of strategy/movesets do you utilize?
What do you do if your opponent targets your Tauros while you're doing that as well, breaking your sub? Or if they have something like a Infernape or Toxicroak, that can easily KO your team?
The thing with your idea is that a Belly Drummer + Psych Upping is basically the same except a lot more viable. It's creative though, I'll give you that.
The thing with your idea is that a Belly Drummer + Psych Upping is basically the same except a lot more viable. It's creative though, I'll give you that.
I actually posted this same combo a while ago in this thread, except it was with Tauros and Honchrow. Anyhow, some of the problems I see this combo having, other than it not being always effective (something I know from using it), is that you're working in a doubles environment where two attackers can target one Pokemon. If that happens with Tauros, it's not going to be good since it can break the sub, then proceed to knock it out since its defenses aren't all that great.My Turn! My Turn! My Turn!
Absol @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 120 SDef, 16 Atk
Psycho Cut
Sucker Punch
Mean Look OR Curse OR Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Tauros @ Leftovers
Ability: Anger Point
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Substitute
Return
Earthquake
Stone Edge
You also get trumped by others that are faster than it or are Scarf users (and of course 1st priority moves, but that's harder to prevent).
You also might want to run Rock Slide over Stone Edge for more flinch and hitting two Pokemon at once.
I too have experimented with this combo lol. I don't really see why you need Choice Scarf, esp. with Sceptile's somewhat amazing speed and Worry seed. I would reccomend focus sash or lum berry instead and the set that I ran was: Worry Seeed, Leaf Storm, HP [Ice], Endeavor, but that's just a suggestion.
Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start (sigh...)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def
Psych Up
Return
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 SAtk.
Worry Seed
Grass Knot
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire
That would be a good option too (it's what I used).
The one thing about this combo is that is looks very good on paper, but when it gets into the game, it's not as great as it may seem. However, if it's been working for you, then go for it ;o
You are correct: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m70oVy393FI&feature=PlayList&p=E3A105114A9F712A&index=3
That is one of the few battles I've had with them. It doesn't really showcase them extremely well since it's PBR Wi-Fi and you don't always get he most experienced battlers on there. There's a playlist with all of the battles on the side.
The sets that I use are:
Plusle @ Focus Sash
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [Modest]
Plus
Thunder
Grass Knot
HP [Ice]
Nasty Plot
Minun @ Focus Sash / Shuca Berry
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [Timid]
Minus
Rain Dance
Helping Hand
Encore
Thunder
Plusle's Special Attack is slightly higher than Minun's and Minun's defense is slightly higher than Plusle's
Plusle: 60 50 40 85 75 95
Minun: 60 40 50 75 85 95
so I took advantage of that in these sets. So while Plusle is the main attacker, Minun helps with his partner's attacks and screwing the opponent over with encore. Thunder with 180 BP coming from a 442 SpA stat isn't too shabby either.
That is very true, but I decided to drop Shadow Sneak due to the fact that it 2HKOs Gengar, and during the NYC Qualifiers the first person I battled used Meteor Mash on my Dusknoir three times, first time taking out a chunk of health, second time I protected, third time his Metagross and Porygonz both finished off my Dusknoir... but were both KO'd by my Metagross' Explosion the same turn XD
Well right now I'm thinking of a new team involving Rage and Cloyster....
My Turn! My Turn! My Turn!
Absol @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 HP, 120 Def, 120 SDef, 16 Atk
Psycho Cut
Sucker Punch
Mean Look OR Curse OR Swords Dance
Baton Pass
Tauros @ Leftovers
Ability: Anger Point
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
Substitute
Return
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Regigigas @ Life Orb
Ability: Slow Start (sigh...)
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def
Psych Up
Return
Earthquake
Ice Punch
Sceptile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Overgrow
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 SAtk.
Worry Seed
Grass Knot
Dragon Pulse
Hidden Power Fire
A SHORT DESCRIPTION
I am not sure if this has been thought of before, but if it has I apologise most profusely and humbly beg for forgiveness, etcetera, etcetera.
Anyway, the team works rather like this: Absol and Tauros come out. Tauros Subs up. Absol uses Psycho Cut... on Tauros. No, I have not lost my marbles. Rinse and repeat until Absol gets a critical hit (provided Tauros does NOT die from being repeatedly bashed by everything) and Tauros gets a massive Stat boost. If Absol dies (likely) then I can bring Reggie in, copy the Anger Point boost and then the opponent has a fairly massive problem (hopefully). If Absol lives (unlikely) then I eitherWhen Tauros is on low health, I bring in Sceptile, who proceeds to Worry Seed Reggie and then switch back in Tauros, who will probably die, but allowing me to switch moves to something more useful.
- a) attack OR
- b) Baton Pass out to someone a little more... robust.
Absol is a bit more bulky than usual, but not by much. This should (maybe) allow him to survive some unboosted neutral hits. Tauros is a standard physical sweeper. I am debating whether to swap Leftovers for a Salac berry. I think that, in the event of a failed attempt to activate Anger Point, the Sub shall stay up, so Tauros can survive a second hit. Giggy should be able to survive (most) attacks thrown his way while nicking Tauros's boosts. And Sceptile is faster than just about anything (excluding things like Timid Deoxys-s and Ninjask that have too much staying power).
So, how is it? Oh, and please don't mention that there is only a 50% chance that this will work, I know already, and I am still cut up about people factoring luck (ie. Sand Veil) into Garchomp Danger Factor.
i think relying on switch regigigas in to pysch up the boost then switching in sceptile to nullify his ability then switching tauros back and losing his boost is too much set up.
why dont you replace regigigas with a more reliable psych up user like metagross or weavile
also as you said yourself it is inconsisant if tauros dies without anger point activating your pretty much screwed