Right!
Except I don't know if the game bothers with rounding decimals since the numbers are hidden anyhow.
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Double Battle Metagame.
- Thread starter Go2Sleep02
- Start date
Right!
Except I don't know if the game bothers with rounding decimals since the numbers are hidden anyhow.
Yes, the game rounds down every decimal when computing damage, whether it's 55.01 or 55.99. It seems odd to me, but I'm not going to bust my brains out trying to figure out why. :P
But nice, thanks for the info. I'm trying to work out a Gravity team, so I needed to know how Gravity worked.
But nice, thanks for the info. I'm trying to work out a Gravity team, so I needed to know how Gravity worked.
I've been thinking about this for awhile, and am interested in what people think. I'm not much of a double battler, so it might not be a good plan, but nevertheless I think it might have promice...
Technician, Jolly @ Life Orb, 252 att+speed, 6 hp.
Moveset:
-Fakeout
-Feint
-Taunt/Protect
-Hypnosis
This Persian is basically an anti-lead, built to mess up the opponents set-up. A lot of people use Protect to, well, protect a weaker pokemon while the other sets up, Feint will put a heavy dent into such a pokemon, but will require prediction.
Solid Rock, Adamant @ Lum Berry, 252 HP, 252 Sp.def, 6 Att.
Moveset:
-Swords dance/Curse
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake/Megahorn
-Hammer Arm/Substitute
Might not be the best here, but the best I could think of at the present time. He's here to take advantage of the mindgames Persian brings into play by smacking the opponent with his massive attack stat, Swords dancing if its possible to get a free move in. Solid rock + Tyranitars popularity will make this guy tough to take down, even in a 2v2 environment.
What do we think? Anything to make it better? Is it an idea worth pursuing and developing?
Technician, Jolly @ Life Orb, 252 att+speed, 6 hp.
Moveset:
-Fakeout
-Feint
-Taunt/Protect
-Hypnosis
This Persian is basically an anti-lead, built to mess up the opponents set-up. A lot of people use Protect to, well, protect a weaker pokemon while the other sets up, Feint will put a heavy dent into such a pokemon, but will require prediction.
Solid Rock, Adamant @ Lum Berry, 252 HP, 252 Sp.def, 6 Att.
Moveset:
-Swords dance/Curse
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake/Megahorn
-Hammer Arm/Substitute
Might not be the best here, but the best I could think of at the present time. He's here to take advantage of the mindgames Persian brings into play by smacking the opponent with his massive attack stat, Swords dancing if its possible to get a free move in. Solid rock + Tyranitars popularity will make this guy tough to take down, even in a 2v2 environment.
What do we think? Anything to make it better? Is it an idea worth pursuing and developing?
I think you've found the one use of Feint that is actually useful. I really like that Persian.
I'm going to be a real nerd here and say that I think the game stores the numbers during the damage calculations as INT values instead of ROUND values. Whereas ROUND would make the numbers round up or down to the nearest integer, INT simply gets rid of everything after the decimal point to make it an integer.
So like you said, it doesn't matter if it is 55.01 or 55.99, the game will still treat it as 55.
Yeah, INT values don't show decimals. Unless there was some kind of come "setprecision" manipulator like C++, but I don't know enough of the game's coding to understand if there is one or not.
Last Night was pretty interesting on PBR Wifi, I was on between 9-11 PM EST and there were a bulk of Japanese Players online. Alot of them were running Trick Clefables with Flame Orb and quite a few Heat Wave Teams. I ran into two different Dark Void Smeargles on wifi, which was interesting to say the least. Besides that, alot of teams were running Charizard as a Heatwave user, and it seems like with the upcomming tournaments in Japan, random wifi is getting more competitive.
All the better for me, since that means I can actually play competitive doubles teams on PBR. :D
It's uncertain how accuracy and rounding work. The game does store just about everything as an int, but that doesn't mean accuracy is always a full %. Consider that the "real" value of 85% is .85. How probability would work would be to have some range of values (possibly 1-100, possibly 1-255, maybe something else entirely) that can be possibly selected, and if the move's accuracy value is greater than or equal to that number, the move hits. For all we know, accuracy could have tenth of a % precision just by having the range be 1-1000. We also don't know the order of rounding (assuming any rounding really occurs).
An idea occurred to me last week, but still needs the rough edges trimmed.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spd)
SUBSTITUTE
BELLY DRUM
EARTHQUAKE
ROCK SLIDE
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Def
Togekiss @ Lum Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
FOLLOW ME
EXTREMESPEED
PSYCH UP
BATON PASS
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
Kecleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Colour Change
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
LAST RESORT
TRICK ROOM
FAKE OUT
SCREECH
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
Scyther @ Choice Scarf/Band
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Spd)
AERIAL ACE
X-SCISSOR
BRICK BREAK
QUICK ATTACK
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
The idea behind this is fairly straightforward: Togekiss uses Follow Me, allowing Marowak a free Substitute. Togekiss's Lum Berry deals with status. If Togekiss survives the brutal assault it will Psych Up, then either Baton Pass out to my bulky Trick Roomer, Kecleon, or to Scyther, or attack with Extremespeed, whilst Marowak is maxing its attack. Marowak can now OHKO just about anything, and its two moves hit both Pokemon in a double battle. While Marowak unleashes hell, Kecleon creates the room and I'm set to go. Kecleon also supports with Screech, Fake Out, and can attack with Last Resort when the going gets rough. Scyther is there just because I like him, and is a back-up just in case something goes wrong (at least, if the Trick Room has worn off by then...).
Please feel free to make any comments, corrections, or criticisms. This team requires a fair amount of luck, as well as needing a LOT of setup, so please factor this into your comments. Oh, and by the way, Togekiss has a 0 speed IV, so it is outsped by Marowak, and therefore can copy Marowak's boosts the same turn it Belly Drums.
Marowak @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightningrod
Nature: Brave (+Atk, -Spd)
SUBSTITUTE
BELLY DRUM
EARTHQUAKE
ROCK SLIDE
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 6 Def
Togekiss @ Lum Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
FOLLOW ME
EXTREMESPEED
PSYCH UP
BATON PASS
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
Kecleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Colour Change
Nature: Relaxed (+Def, -Spd)
LAST RESORT
TRICK ROOM
FAKE OUT
SCREECH
EVs: 252 HP, 200 Def, 56 SDef
Scyther @ Choice Scarf/Band
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Spd)
AERIAL ACE
X-SCISSOR
BRICK BREAK
QUICK ATTACK
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
The idea behind this is fairly straightforward: Togekiss uses Follow Me, allowing Marowak a free Substitute. Togekiss's Lum Berry deals with status. If Togekiss survives the brutal assault it will Psych Up, then either Baton Pass out to my bulky Trick Roomer, Kecleon, or to Scyther, or attack with Extremespeed, whilst Marowak is maxing its attack. Marowak can now OHKO just about anything, and its two moves hit both Pokemon in a double battle. While Marowak unleashes hell, Kecleon creates the room and I'm set to go. Kecleon also supports with Screech, Fake Out, and can attack with Last Resort when the going gets rough. Scyther is there just because I like him, and is a back-up just in case something goes wrong (at least, if the Trick Room has worn off by then...).
Please feel free to make any comments, corrections, or criticisms. This team requires a fair amount of luck, as well as needing a LOT of setup, so please factor this into your comments. Oh, and by the way, Togekiss has a 0 speed IV, so it is outsped by Marowak, and therefore can copy Marowak's boosts the same turn it Belly Drums.
Electivire @ Expert Belt
Mild/Hasty
* Discharge
* Ice Punch
* Earthquake
* Cross Chop
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Timid
* Discharge
* Magnet Rise
* Hidden Power (Grass)
* Shadow Ball
Jolteon's speed is fast enough, supposedly, for it to attack first. Its Discharge will hurt both opponents and increase speed for Electivire. Now the Electivire is most likely fast enough to make the second attack. Use a non-Earthquake attack to hurt any opponent. If there is a Heatran on turn one, then Jolteon will use Magnet Rise first and allow Electivire to use Earthquake, THEN proceed the above.
Electivire's Discharge can kill Skarmory as well as heal Jolteon's HP by 25% every Discharge is used. Basically, they hurt both opponents with Discharge while healing or speeding up the ally. Electivire is the main Physical attacker and Jolteon is the main Special attacker.
HP Grass is for Swampert, Gastrodon, Whiscash and Quagsires.
Mild/Hasty
* Discharge
* Ice Punch
* Earthquake
* Cross Chop
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Timid
* Discharge
* Magnet Rise
* Hidden Power (Grass)
* Shadow Ball
Jolteon's speed is fast enough, supposedly, for it to attack first. Its Discharge will hurt both opponents and increase speed for Electivire. Now the Electivire is most likely fast enough to make the second attack. Use a non-Earthquake attack to hurt any opponent. If there is a Heatran on turn one, then Jolteon will use Magnet Rise first and allow Electivire to use Earthquake, THEN proceed the above.
Electivire's Discharge can kill Skarmory as well as heal Jolteon's HP by 25% every Discharge is used. Basically, they hurt both opponents with Discharge while healing or speeding up the ally. Electivire is the main Physical attacker and Jolteon is the main Special attacker.
HP Grass is for Swampert, Gastrodon, Whiscash and Quagsires.
i thought of trying something similar to this a while ago but never tried it out,
as is though, i see a few problems with this strategy
first off marowak should belly drum first turn while togekiss uses follow me.
using substitute in doubles isnt nearly as good as it is in singles because if both opponents attack you the first one will break your sub and the second one will kill you.
the next turn togekiss should use follow me again while marowak attacks with earthquake or rockslide. togekiss will probably die this turn.
then bring out your bulky trick room user (you listed keckleon, but i think uxie or cresselia would be better since they are immune to earthquake and are bulkier) while your trick room user sets up trick room have marowak use protect, if you use anything else marowak will almost certainly die.
then sweep with a superfast (under trick room) 2272 attack power marowak
I like this set up :)
I wanted to run a Jolteon like that but since it doesn't learn Discharge till Lv. 75 and Showdown Rules are Lv. 50, I haven't :(
Considering that you are healing Jolteon from Turn One with Discharge, you will be better off with Life Orb over Leftovers as it will become dead weight with your strategy. Besides things like Fake Out or TR, this team seems to be pretty solid but becareful since Discharge is a 60 Base Power Attack in Doubles and in even Scenerios were it would be SE, it will at best 2HKO without additional support, such as Stat Boosts, Specs or Helping Hand. I think one of the best examples of this is Power Trick Shuckle, who despite gaining a 600+ Attack Stat from Power can only at best 2HKO Neutral hits and against some 2x Hits against his opponents.
@hjj: Kyogre can very easily switch in on the turn that you set up and completely ruin this strategy. I've faced a team like this before and stopped it dead in it's track by switching in my Kyogre.
This is for OU only, and Discharge is 60 powered in Double? I never heard anything about that...
Moves that hit more than one opponent have their power reduced to 75% in doubles.
I've been considering a doubles stall-and-boost team abusing water absorb. People in my area play with Item Clause and six pokes - not sure what the last two should be:
Vaporeon@Leftovers
Aqua Ring
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
EVs in HP and Defence, +Sdef -Attack nature
Kingdra@Damp Rock
Swift Swim
Rain Dance
Surf
?
?
EVs still need some thought - probably heavy HP/SA investment. Don't know what the other two moves should be.
Suicune@...something?
Surf
Calm Mind
Rest
Sleep Talk
Can't use Leftovers because of Item Clause. I'm considering Shell Bell or something - any other pseudo-leftovers? Anyway, fairly standard Crocune.
Scizor@Life Orb
Technician
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Roost
X-Scissor
EVs in HP and Attack. Fairly standard SD Scizor.
Basic strategy is fairly simple: First round, Vap uses Aqua Ring and Kingdra uses Rain Dance. After that, Vap attacks/CMs as seems best, and Kingdra uses Surf to heal Vap. If Kingdra faints, Suicune comes in. If Vap faints, probably one of the last two not-yet-specified pokes come in. Scizor comes in towards the end to clean up.
Pokemon I'm considering for the last two: Other Swift Swimmers (Probably Omastar), Lapras (Probably scarfed with Surf). I'm also considering Abomnasnow/Walrein to come in as sort of a second-wave set of stallers - Abomnasnow with Leech Seed/Protect/Blizzard/Wood Hammer, Walrein with Blizzard/Protect/Other Stuff. Probably holding Shell Bell.
Any thoughts on how viable this strategy is/what to fill in other moveslots/pokeslots with? Haven't actually tested this yet - I tried a vap/lapras double-surf strategy a while ago, but that tended to fall down because Lapras wasn't quite tough enough.
I've been considering a doubles stall-and-boost team abusing water absorb. People in my area play with Item Clause and six pokes - not sure what the last two should be:
Vaporeon@Leftovers
Aqua Ring
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
EVs in HP and Defence, +Sdef -Attack nature
Kingdra@Damp Rock
Swift Swim
Rain Dance
Surf
?
?
EVs still need some thought - probably heavy HP/SA investment. Don't know what the other two moves should be.
Suicune@...something?
Surf
Calm Mind
Rest
Sleep Talk
Can't use Leftovers because of Item Clause. I'm considering Shell Bell or something - any other pseudo-leftovers? Anyway, fairly standard Crocune.
Scizor@Life Orb
Technician
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Roost
X-Scissor
EVs in HP and Attack. Fairly standard SD Scizor.
Basic strategy is fairly simple: First round, Vap uses Aqua Ring and Kingdra uses Rain Dance. After that, Vap attacks/CMs as seems best, and Kingdra uses Surf to heal Vap. If Kingdra faints, Suicune comes in. If Vap faints, probably one of the last two not-yet-specified pokes come in. Scizor comes in towards the end to clean up.
Pokemon I'm considering for the last two: Other Swift Swimmers (Probably Omastar), Lapras (Probably scarfed with Surf). I'm also considering Abomnasnow/Walrein to come in as sort of a second-wave set of stallers - Abomnasnow with Leech Seed/Protect/Blizzard/Wood Hammer, Walrein with Blizzard/Protect/Other Stuff. Probably holding Shell Bell.
Any thoughts on how viable this strategy is/what to fill in other moveslots/pokeslots with? Haven't actually tested this yet - I tried a vap/lapras double-surf strategy a while ago, but that tended to fall down because Lapras wasn't quite tough enough.
No. As has been said several times in this thread, the order of turns is determined at the start of the turn. If Electivire's Speed makes it go third, no amount of changes to Speed within that turn will alter that.
For the Belly Drum Marowak set, I'd actually think about using a FAST Trick Room user in order to get the move out faster. Uxie comes to mind, since he's moderately fast AND sturdy. Just hope Marowak doesn't whiff with Rock Slide.
All Moves that hit Two or More Opponents in Doubles get their attack reduced by 25%, the same as a .75 Multiplier ;)
I thought that Trick Room had a -6 priority, or something? Therefore the speed of aforementioned Trick Room user would not matter, and it would actually be beneficial to be slower since you would outrun just about everything after Trick Room, which is Kecleon's selling point.
Doh, you're right. Disregard my above post.
Wouldn't it be a good idea to have your trick room user try to set up TR on your first turn so that Marrowak doesn't die?
Another thing that I think should be mentioned is that Feint won't break the Protect/Detect of Ghosts, I tested this two nights ago and belive that it's important for others to know.
Another thing that I think should be mentioned is that Feint won't break the Protect/Detect of Ghosts, I tested this two nights ago and belive that it's important for others to know.
it doesnt work like that turn order is decided at the beggining of the turn so if groudon would be out sped before recieving chlorophyl that would not change until the next turn
Wha?
I guess it's because Feint is Normal and anyone who knows their types know that Normal attacks don't hurt Ghosts.
That's suprising to be honest, but it makes sense.
That's fine with me, because that's part of what makes Feint Persian so nasty. 50 * 1.5 STAB * 1.5 Technician = a 112 power attack against something that was trying to avoid getting hit in the first place and probably has poor defenses.
Plus, Ghosts usually aren't Protecting anyhow.
Plus, Ghosts usually aren't Protecting anyhow.
I don't see much synergy in this team tbh. If you're going for a RD stall doubles team, you should use more tankish or stall Pokemon that benefit from the rain. I don't know how well this will work either, however the winner of last year's showdown won with a similar idea IIRC, so I guess you never know.
I would consider replacing Kingdra with Politoed (or even Poliwrath) since Kingdra isn't the most bulky Pokemon around, unless you run something like DD / Outrage / Rest / ST, but there are better options for this anyhow. This way you have a way to deal with explosions (which could mess your strategy up otherwise) or absorb surfs, hypnotise your opponent, and provide support to Vaporeon.
Scizor seems out of place here. In doubles teams you don't neccesarily need a "clean up" Pokemon or a late game sweeper. I think you should replace with something else.
So so far the beginning of your team might look something like this:
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
Calm Mind
Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power / Helping Hand / ???
Politoed @ Damp Rock / Shell Bell
Water Absorb / Damp
Rain Dance
Hypnosis
Surf
Ice Beam
Abomasnow and Walrein would probably create even less synergy, plus if something went wrong with the Rain Dance, you have Hail when you're supposed to have Rain and Rain when you're supposed to have hail. Some prime candidates for other spots that you may want to consider are:
Poliwrath (Similar to Politoed)
Tentacruel / Cloyster ([Toxic] Spikes Stalling)
Slowbro / Slowking (Trick Room)
Dewgong / Phione (RainRest)
Lanturn (Lanturn Surf + Lapras Thunder[bolt] is nice)
Lapras (see above)
Azumarill
Qwilfish (Explosion)
Mantine (Water Absorb)
Ludicolo (Swift Swim)
Floatzel (Taunt)