DP Magnezone

[Colonel M]

Usually Forry has to use the time to use Leftovers. However, that is true that he uses it at times. I guess I will give Forry a mention.

 

[monkfish]

Perhaps a mention of Shed Shell on Magnezone's side to allow it to escape Dugtrio's Arena Trap [and probopass's magnet pull lol] once it has dealt with Skarmory?

 

[Colonel M]

I guess it could work. I'll put a mention of it in other options. I was thinking about that after a while too.

 

[Colonel M]

Bump. Did Spellcheck, and I'm pretty sure this is done. Any final words?

 

[chaos]

Advanced -> Advance

There's at least one instance where a type is not capitalized correctly. ("electric" was the one I found.)

 

[Colonel M]

Got them both. Thanks chaos.

 

[Jediment]

This looks very nice. I just read the current analysis for Magnezone and was disgusted at the number of slashes in it.

 

[ryubahamut]

was going through the analysis and noticed an instance of loose where lose should have been used instead (under the offense set: loose a ton of power, and under the first set: loosing both power and ...). will do a thorough check a bit later.

well done!

LATE EDIT: explosion running off 88 attack ev's manages to miss blissey just by a hair's breadth (708-833 damage). 96 attack ev's bring you into the luck independent region. is that an issue?

 

[Colonel M]

Loose and Lose is perhaps the two words I'm really, REALLY rough with. Thanks for the comments though.

@ryubahamut: I'm looking into that right now. Is that on max / max or 148 / 252 Blissey? And what section was it under?

Also, while on the subject:

Unless I did something wrong in Metalkid's calculator, the Life Orb doesn't need that shitload of attack. 0 Attack EVs with neutral nature gives me 92.01% - 108.14% to 148 / 252 Def Blissey. I'll try to push those EVs to 96 Attack however in the analysis.

 

[ryubahamut]

sorry, my bad. i ran calculations on 252 hp/252 def bold blissey. currently running calculations on 148 hp/252 def bold blissey, will get back in a bit

edit:

// magnezone attack with 88 ev
$ ./pcalc s 70 88
70 base with 88 EV, neutral nature: 198, 303 HP
 
// explosion on bold 148 hp max def blissey running off 88 ev:
$ ./pcalc d 198 130 500 1.3
198 attack vs. 130 defense, 500 power, times 1.3: 708.0 - 833.0
 
// blissey HP with 148 hp ev:
$ ./pcalc s 255 148
255 base with 148 EV, neutral nature: 583, 688 HP
 
// magnezone attack for almost-total Blissey OHKO
$ ./pcalc d 192 130 500 1.3
192 attack vs. 130 defense, 500 power, times 1.3: 687.0 - 808.0
 
// requisite EVs:
$ ./pcalc e 70 192
64 EVs needed for getting 192 actual stat from 70 base.
 
// magnezone attack for definite blissey OHKO
$ ./pcalc d 193 130 500 1.3
193 attack vs. 130 defense, 500 power, times 1.3: 690.0 - 812.0
 
// requisite EVs:
$ ./pcalc e 70 193
68 EVs needed for getting 193 actual stat from 70 base.

take your pick: 64 or 68 attack EVs for standard blissey OHKO, and pump the remaining elsewhere. these should be correct, unless i really fucked something up somewhere

 

[Colonel M]

I'd take 68. Alright, I'm throwing those into the analysis now. Thank you ryu!

 

[Colonel M]

Bump again. *Sigh*.

I fixed a couple minor things, put the "Why not to use Explosion on this set" into the <h2> format, and I guess the one thing I could argue is using Choice Scarf, but I won't get far into the discussion. Unless anyone else sees something that is wrong with this analysis, I'm pretty much finished with it.

 

[Slice n Dice]

Ummm

The "Steelkiller" set needs something like 252 special attack/ 204 speed/ 54 hp to outspeed the fastest agiligrosses. Put Hp Grass as an option as well.

 

[Colonel M]

Well, I did mention about outspeeding Agiligross with the right EV spread. But I'd put it into EV section. Thanks though for the input.

 

[Too_Hungry35]

EVs:

176 HP / 252 SAtk / 84 Spe are the normal EVs to use for the majority of the sets.

They add up to 512. I think you meant 172 HP EVs instead.

 

[Colonel M]

Got it.

(Erm, maybe I should PM someone that this is done? Unless someone is currently working on the thing).

 

[Great Sage]

Put the bottom stuff, like [OTHER OPTIONS], into normal capitalization patterns ([Other Options]). If you keep the current capitalization, it will show up on the website like OTHER OPTIONS. If you feel that this should go on SCMS after that, then I'll be happy to review and commit it.

 

[Colonel M]

All set. Thanks Great Sage!

 

[Hipmonlee]

I spoke to Colonel M about this, and I have restored the original with some of his updates:

[SET]
name: Steel Killer
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Substitute
move 4: Magnet Rise
item: Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Substitute and Magnet Rise are needed to reliably counter Bronzong. Magnet Rise will protect you from Earthquake, and Substitute will block Hypnosis and the threat of a last-ditch Explosion</p>

<p>Magnet Rise will also allow you to trap Metagross, but it is always risky. First you have to switch in against the Metagross, and then you have to be faster to Magnet Rise before it kills you with Earthquake. Metagross has 10 base higher Speed than Magnezone, and it will often use it.</p>


[SET]
name: Rest Talk
move 1: Discharge
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 172 HP / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set exploits Magnezone's new-improved defenses in DP. Its huge list of resistances including the Electric and Ice combination, tankish stats, and ability to deal masses of damage with its enormous special attack make Sleep Talking an attractive option for Magnezone. It is a particularly effective counter to Zapdos.</p>


[SET]
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice
move 3: Flash Cannon / Magnet Rise
move 4: Explosion / Metal Sound
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Mild
evs: 88 HP / 88 Atk / 248 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set takes full advantage of Magnezone's ridiculous special attack. Flash Cannon offers a secondary STAB attack. Metal Sound will allow you to 2hko Blissey with Thunderbolt if you carry Life Orb. Magnet Rise is useful should a Ground type switch in. As most rely on earthquake to stop Magnezone, and without it can be made helpless.</p>

<p>The EVs listed in this set are for the Life Orb variant. With Leftovers you may want more attack to boost Explosion.</p>


[SET]
name: Choice Attacker
move 1: Explosion
move 2: Thunderbolt
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Flash Cannon
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Mild
evs: 172 Atk / 252 SpA / 84 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magnezone's base 130 Special Attack is the highest of any Electric. So Choice Specs is an obvious option here. Explosion for when you get bored of special attacks.</p>

<p>In a fast-paced battle, Choice Scarf is an excellent item—making life difficult for fast Pokémon with low defenses. In a stall war, it is generally more of a hinderance than a help—it limits your attacking options without any practical advantage. This is why Magnezone is an excellent candidate for Scarf. Pokémon with Explosion are essentially unstallable in almost any situation.</p>

<p>The EVs listed here are for Choice Specs. If you choose to use Choice Scarf, you probably should give it a lot more speed.</p>

<p>Its usefulness with Choice Specs or Choice Scarf is limited by the fact that while Thunderbolt is an extremely good move, it isn't backed up by much. And being predictable is the last thing you want for any Choice item user.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Toxic allows Magnezone to damage Ground types it would otherwise struggle with. Protect works well with Toxic for the Toxovers effect.</p>
<p>Reflect and Light Screen are good moves that allow Magnezone to support its team.</p>
<p>Mirror Coat is great for surprising Special Attackers.</p>
<p>Screech can boost Explosion's damage. Or force a switch into a Thunder Wave or Toxic.</p>
<p>Charge Beam gives Magnezone a way to boost its Special Attack.</p>
<p>Tri Attack has a 20% chance to Freeze, Paralyze or Burn, which could be worthwhile.</p>

[Hidden Power]
<p>One of the hardest decisions for a Magnezone is what Hidden Power to use. Grass obviously hits Rhyperior and Swampert a lot harder than Ice, but Ice will usually OHKO Garchomp, and hits Grass types Super Effective. Hidden Power Ice is recommended in the sets because of its usefulness against the two most common Ground types Garchomp and Gliscor.</p>
<p>When running Flash Cannon if you run Hidden Power Ice, Flash Cannon will cover Rhyperior, but you won't have anything to hit Swampert. With Hidden Power Grass, Flash Cannon still hits Garchomp and Grass types Hard, but not super effective.</p>
<p>Hidden Power Ground can also be used, it hits Electrics, most notably Electivire, Super Effective. And it allows you to trap and kill other Magnezone and some Heatrans. Minimum Hit Points and Special Defense Heatran is guaranteed to die to a Modest max Special Attack Magnezones Hidden Power Ground. However, Heatran is faster, and if you use Choice Scarf, you still run the risk that Heatran will have higher than minimum HP.</p>

[Discharge or Thunderbolt?]
<p>Thunderbolt and Discharge are your choices for your main STAB attack. Thunderbolt has 95 power and 10% chance at causing paralysis, whereas Discharge has only 80 power but a 30% chance of paralyzing.</p>

<p>The difference in relative power between Thunderbolt and Discharge is almost identical to Return and Body Slam, however Thunderbolt keeps a 10% chance of paralysis whereas Return has none. In RS it was traditional for Normal types with Choice Band to run Return whereas more defensive Pokémon such as Snorlax would use Body Slam. A defensive Pokémon has the ability to attack more times, allowing them more chances at paralysis. And the paralysis chance also can thwart Pokémon trying to take advantage of the lower base power, as there will always be a risk associated in switching in.</p>

<p>Magnezone is a Pokémon with a huge Special Attack but also a very defensive typing and good defensive stats. So the decision is not very clear. Basically it will come down to your preference: do you want to deal as much damage as possible, or have the chance to cripple a Pokémon even if they are capable of resisting your attacks?</p>

[EVs]
<p>The minimum Speed Magnezone should ever run is 177—enough to outspeed minimum Speed Skarmory. This requires 84 EVs with neutral nature. From there, you could run any Speed up to the maximum with a boosting nature.</p>
<p>Any set with Explosion could have any attack up to max, for a better chance to OHKO Blissey. <br>224 Attack is a guaranteed KO on Blissey if it has taken a max Special Attack Thunderbolt. <br>232 Attack guarantees the KO after a max Special Attack Discharge. <br>In a Sand Stream, only 208 Attack with Thunderbolt and 216 with Discharge are needed. <br>If you have Life Orb you only need 199 to Guarantee the KO at max health.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Magnezone is still a hair short of genuine standardom. If it still had Magneton's Speed, or if its Special Defense was switched with its Defense, it would be a staple. It is kept in standard by its Magnet Pull ability, but it will never become too popular due to the fact that if it were, people would just use Shed Shell on their Skarmory and Bronzong.</p>

<p>On the other hand, it has an incredible, unique defensive type, and the highest special attack of all Electrics. It is no longer the dead weight that Magneton could be if it couldn't trap Skarmory. </p>

[Counters]
<p>Dugtrio can trap and OHKO Magnezone unless it carries Shuca Berry and quite a bit of defense.</p>
<p>Electivire absorbs Magnezone's Electric attacks and can OHKO with Earthquake or 2HKO comfortably with Cross Chop if you have the Steel Trapper set EVs, otherwise it may OHKO. Lanturn also absorbs Hidden Power Ice, Magnezone's Thunderbolts, and resists all its other attacks.</p>
<p>Garchomp, Swampert, or Rhyperior can counter it depending on what Hidden Power you use—as can most Ground types.</p>
<p>Blissey is a reasonable counter to any set without Explosion.</p>

But yeah, I am not up to date with the analyses, I might have missed some stuff too.. It is pretty long.

I did get rid of the Rain Dancer set.. With hindsight, that was a little over the top..

Have a nice day.

 

[RaikouLover]

Lately I've been using a magnezone spread of 156 HP / 204 speed / 148 Special Attack. Hits 320 HP for lefties, 204 speed hits 207 to outspeed and throw up a sub infront of Cresselia, destroys suicunes before they get in too many CMs, and guarentees that you outpseed 90% of metagrosses out there. 366 special attack is still sufficient to put a hurt into most steels for a nice 2HKO. It works very effectively.

 

[Aldaron]

this post is for jrrrrrrr's and Aldaron's purposes...

hmm leaving this for now as Magnezone has always been one of those "how the bloody balls do I ev this" pokemon and there seemed to significant confusion with including / not including sets and the like

don't delete

 

[C. Falcon]

I went through the anaylsis, both the current one in the strategy dex and this thread and couldn't find a set like this which I think looks decent.

[SET]

name: Metal Sound Zone
move 1: Metal Sound
move 2: Substiute / Magnet Rise
move 3: Thunderbolt
move 4: Hidden Power [Ice]
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Magnet Pull
nature: Modest
evs: 170HP / 252SpAtk / 88Speed

[SET COMMENTS]

<P>Magnezone's evolutionary line has the best typing resistance wise in the game, with 12 resistances and one immunity and with a good movepool to support it. Metal Sound is the main move on this set, the harsh drop in special defence combined with Zone's high special attack spells doom for most pokemon. With Stealth Rock up thunderbolt is a guarenteed 2KO on Blissey after a metal sound and life orb boost and Cresselia is a guarenteed KO after the Metal Sound drop if you use Thunderbolt with Stealth Rock up. </P>

<P>Magnezone has two choices for its second moveslot, Substiute protects you from Status and with Zone's fantastic typing will usually last a couple of turns allowing you to Metal Sound and attack. However Magnet Rise can be used if you fear Dugtrio's earthquake. Thunderbolt is your main form of attack severly denting any pokemon that doesn't resist it, with the given EVs and Nature, Thunderbolt 2KO's almost every pokemon that switches in. Hidden Power [Ice] is the final move, which hits most pokemon immune to Thunderbolt for super effective. </P>

<h3>Damage Calculations:</h3>

After Metal Sound:

<p>Thunderbolt vs. Min HP / 176Sp Def Calm Blissey 42.09% - 49.46% </P>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. 26HP EV / Min Sp Def Neutral Cresselia 91.73% - 108.01%</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / 0 Sp Def + Nature Bronzong 105.92% - 124.56</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / 6 Sp Def Neutral Dusknoir 116.67% - 137.07%</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / 6 Sp Def Neutral Suicine 194.80% - 229.21%</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / 6 Sp Def Neutral Togekiss 210.43% - 247.59%</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / Min Sp Def Neutral Tyranitar 110.15% - 129.46%</p>
<p>Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / Min Sp Def Neutral Zapdos 126.56% - 148.96% </p>

Damage Calcs were done by using MetalKid Damage Calculator btw.

 

[Colonel M]

The "All Out Attacker" has Metal Sound as an option.

I'll look into that a little more. If you can redo the calcs using the owndamage calc listed in Jump's announcement thread.

 

[Darkmalice]

Steel Trapper that OHKOs Scizor

Barring Heatran, Scizor is the most popular pokemon in OU. As such, I think Steel Killer Magnezone should be able to deal with Scizor as well as Skarmory, Forretress, Bronzong and even Metagross. Here's a set I developed (I planned to make a peer edit, but I found this one, so I think it would be more efficient to place this here). Most of it is still the same, but no material is recycled.

DPPt Magnezone - Steel Trapper

<p> Leftovers - Timid - Magnet Pull
Thunderbolt
HP Fire
Substitute
Magnet Rise
IVs: 31Hlth, 30Att, 31Def, 30Speed, 30SpAtt, 31SpDef
EVs: 252 SpcAtt, 220 Speed, 36 Hlth.<p>

<p> Very much the same as the old Steel Trapper, but with more speed and HP Fire. This is because of Scizor. With the suggested EVs, Magnezone reaches 231 Speed, which outruns max speed Adamant Scizor who caps at 229. HP Fire OHKOs 252 Hlth, 4 SpDef Adamant Scizor, 100% of the time, whilst the Trapper Scizor (176 Hlth, 176 SpDef, Adamant), the most specially defensive Scizor you will find, receives 92.31-109.54% damage, which is a guaranteed OHKO with SR damage.<p>

<p> 252 SpAtt EVs is self explanatory. The rest is poured into Hlth to maximise both defences. The Speed EVs also give an extra speed point, which is useful for outrunning around EVed solely to outrun Scizor.<p>

<p> Magnet Rise and Substitute are for Metagross and Bronzong. Magnet Rise blocks Earthquake and Substitute blocks Bronzong's status options. The only moves of those two that will break a Substitute in one turn are Explosion and the rarely seen Hammer Arm. Even CB Adamant Metagross' Meteor Mash will never break a Substitute, only causing 21.03-24.83% damage to Magnezone. And despite Metagross having higher base speed than Magnezone, few Metagross will outrun you, as they require a Jolly nature or a Scarf (and many of those with Scarf Trick it off as quickly as possible).<p>

<p> As an extra bonus, you are able to defeat Metagross, Bronzong, Skarmory and Forretress (the last two are OHKOed with ease) with both a Substitute up and Magnet Rise activated, meaning the next pokemon who comes in will have to break Magnezone's Substitute without Earthquake.<p>

<p> However, Substitute and Magnet Rise should not be used against Scizor. Max Att. Scizor's Superpower does 88.28-104.14% damage to Magnezone without an item boost. Brick Break will always hurt and U-turn will allow Magnezone to escape Magnet Pull. Make sure that you don't swap into any of these attacks. Using these moves may also allow Skarmory and Forretress to set up Spikes, Toxic Spikes or Stealth Rock (and Skarmory may whirlwind you or Forretress may use Explosion).<p>

<p> Leftovers is the item of choice, as it allows for more substitutes and allows Magnezone to last longer. Life Orb damage is unnecessary to gain any OHKOs or 2HKOs on any of these steels.<p>

<p> Be aware that Skarmory and Forretress may be holding a Shed Shell. This is easy to identify, as if they don’t have Leftovers Recovery after swapping into an attack or Stealth Rock, chances are they have Shed Shell. Bronzong rarely holds a Shed Shell, and Scizor and Metagross never hold one.<p>

<p> Opinion:
It's purpose is to trap and kill Steels, and it is the best at its job thanks to Magnet Pull. The ability to act as arguably the best Scizor counter in the game is brilliant, easily able to swap in as Scizor uses Swords Dance, Bullet Punch, X-Scissor or Roost.<p>

 

[cim]

Uh, not only is this in the wrong format and everything, it's in a thread about an entirely different edit...

"Substitute and Magnet Rise should not be used against Scizor" uh isn't that kind of obvious as you're faster, OHKO it (unlike the other 2), and it doesn't pack Earthquake?

You also don't write opinions for only one set.