DP Porygon2

Age of Kings

Age of Kings

of the Ash Legion
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/porygon2
I completed the edits, and if there's anymore that needs to be added, let me know.

[SET]
name: Upgrade THIS!
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 3: Thunder Wave / Toxic
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
ability: Trace
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 80 SpA / 108 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Porygon2 can handle several popular leads with ease, and Boltbeam provides excellent coverage as such. It is only resisted by Magnezone and Lanturn: the former very rarely leads and the latter is used much less and leads even rarer. For what it cannot kill, it will cripple badly with a status---punish opposing speedy double powders with paralysis and make them practically useless, while opposing walls will have difficulty coping with poison limiting their long-term durability. The choice between Discharge and Thunderbolt rests on whether you want a higher chance of paralysis or more base power. If you go with Discharge, it is recommended that you go with Toxic as a status and run a peudo-double powder. Recover off any damage taken, and either supplement that recovery with Leftovers or cure status.</p>

<p>With this EV spread, Porygon2 survives Salamence's Draco Meteor and has extra Defense to take repeated hits from Gyarados and friends. This spread also survives a +2 Earthquake from Jolly Garchomp, as long as it doesn't have Life Orb, and retaliates with enough Special Attack to OHKO most varieties of Garchomp. Special Defense EVs can be moved to Defense if you're not concerned with beat Salamence leads.</p>

[SET]
Set name: Recycling is Good for the Environment
Move 1: Recycle
Move 2: Discharge/Ice Beam
Move 3: Recover
Move 4: Return
Item: Starf Berry
Ability: Trace
Nature: Quiet
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Atk / 148 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Abuse Recycle, and stat up. Starf Berry raises a random stat by +2---but you never know what stat it will be, and this set tries to take advantage of whatever you do get. Return is a STAB option that is supplemented by possible attack boosts, as well as the ability to hit Blissey hard if you get lucky enough. An old ADV set, in D/P it is walled by Ground-type physical walls (i.e Hippowdon, Gliscor, Donphan). Ice Beam is an option for hitting them, but Magnezone walls it either way. Since this set lacks the conventional status, Discharge is over Thunderbolt, but you may use the latter if you wish.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Because of its incredible assets as a lead, Porygon2 can be expected to survive almost anything with its EVs tailored correctly and set up Rain Dance or Trick Room, the latter especially.</p>

<p>As for stat boosting, Agility is an option for those who don't enjoy its absymal speed. Psych Up can annoy any opponent, especially Calm Minders. On the sets listed, Charge Beam can be an option over Thunderbolt or Discharge.</p>

<p>In the way of STAB, Tri-Attack is generally inferior on Porygon2. The lack of Adaptibility really hurts it, but the chance of a status makes it an ok choice.</p>

<p>Hidden Power [Ground] or [Fighting] take down Magnezone, Heatran, Weavile, and Tyranitar, but generally all of these will be wary of being statused.</p>

<p>Porygon2 has a lot in the way of novelty moves, which can be devastating if used correctly. The prime of these are the exclusive Conversion and Conversion 2, which coupled with decent defenses and excellent recovery, can annoy the opponent immensely.</p>

<p>Leppa Berry and Recycle make a small mention, as a Recycle Porygon2 participated in the longest Netbattle match ever. In other words, let your PP and recovery be the Energizer Battery: keep going and going and going and going....</p>

[EVS]
<p>Porygon2 is difficult to come up with universal EVs. It can be tailored to any need, but can become too specialized and essentially useless except to the things it was designed to get rid of. Either use the suggested EVs or come up with one of your own that best suits your team.</p>

[OPINION]
<p>An extremely fun Pokemon to use, as it can do almost anything. Porygon2 can make a nice mixed wall, unlike the only other Tracer, Gardevoir. A shame this Pokemon was given less attention after the introduction of its evolution, Porygon-Z, but Porygon2 is slowly returning to the limelight due to its properties as the best Gyarados counter ever and reasonably stands up to some of the most threatening and annoying Pokemon in the game. Unfortunately, its versatility leads to a downfall: a prime example of the jack of all trades, master of none. It is not a fearsome attacker, and its walling capabilities are limited and runs from most Choice users. However, Porygon2 is destructive to any opponent's team if used correctly, and remains one of the author's favorites.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>If you can survive Porygon2 for two or three turns and KO it in the process, you are likely a counter. Fast or bulky Choice sweepers, especially those with a decent Fighting-type move, will either KO it or force it out. Prime examples include Heracross and Machamp, both of whom welcome Guts status and score STAB supereffective attacks against it. Blissey also walls it completely. Again, anything that Porygon2 fails to kill or has a decent offense will obliterate the Cyber Duck. </p>
 
You need to use the proper shorthand stat formats when doing EV spreads. SA should be SpA. SD should be SpD. Look at all the other analysis pages - that's what you're aiming for. Paragraphs are heavily used to an unnecessary degree in the first analysis. As a rule of thumb, one sentence does not equal one paragraph. This needs to be looked at and restructured.

In this case, they are listed from the least to most important.
Click to expand...
This is unnecessary - if you're giving players options, either explain them properly or simply let them decide which is best for them. Its inclusion doesn't add anything to the analysis.

The combination of Recycle and Lum Berry are inferior to Aromatherapy and Heal Bell except for PP, but a viable healing option makes it worthwhile, and are Porygon2's best options for the status recovery any wall craves.
Click to expand...
To me, at least, this reads extremely awkwardly. You could condense this while still getting your point across. The inclusion of "any wall craves" is not necessary - it adds no quality to what you're trying to get across.

The choice between Charge Beam and Discharge is comes down to preference. If the opponent's Fighting types are gone, P2 is in a perfect condition to bide its time stating up, while Discharge is if you absolutely have to have a status (and may come in handy if anything vulnerable to paralysis switches in).
Click to expand...
I disagree with this sentiment entirely. Just because the opponent's Fighting type is gone, it doesn't mean Porygon2 has time to raise its Special Attack with Charge Beam. There are many other possible threats. Also, no team 'has to have' a status - this is preferential, and again, doesn't need to be included.

Ice Beam covers not only the (choiced) Dragons, Grounds, and assorted Flying types (Zapdos must carry max HP in order to avoid being 2HKO'd), but also revenge kills one of the most feared trappers, Dugtrio. Hidden Power Ground is solely for Magnezone, another notorious Trapper, and for switching in to Heatran.
Click to expand...
It doesn't matter whether you foe is "Choiced" or not - if they can switch, they will. You want to elaborate on the revenge kill vs Dugtrio only occuring with Trace, and how this works. Hidden Power Ground does hinder Magnezone, provided you Trace Magnet Pull, but Heatran is going to be switching out most of the time against Trace Flash Fire.

Porygon2 makes a decent and versatile wall: with the proper tailoring, it can wall and kill whatever it wants to, and this set proves there is not one universal set or spread for a given function.
Click to expand...
This is an opinion, and therefore shouldn't be included in the set description. You have an opinion section for sentiments such as this.

I disagree with the second and third sets altogether, honestly. Porygon2 shouldn't have the luxury of recklessly switching into status, only to take a turn to heal that same status while something else switches in. It definitely shouldn't be trying to Charge Beam, either. At least not on that set.

In the third set, you focus too much on Porygon2's Fighting weakness - there are many other threats that can just as easily take it down without hitting it with a super-effective moves. There are also those that use Fighting moves that are not of the Fighting type. This set does nothing to remedy that.
 
Making edits as needed.

As for the insufficient sets, I agree they are kind of meh. I may remove the third set, as it does qualify as "novelty", because it requires too much maintenence and surprise. The second set will stay for now, as nowhere in the set comments was it trumpeted as a status absorber or switch-in, just a status healer. If other people can come up with better ones or just a normal set, I'll replace it.
 
I disagree with you on Charge Beam BK. Back when I first started battling, I ran a Charge Beam Pory2, and it worked out wonderfully. Recover, with the pseudo boltbeam in Ice Beam and Charge Beam, and then STAB Tri-attack rounded it out. It gives it the boost that it needs to do some decent damage while also taking hits well, without losing coverage or too much power. Although you can't 2HKO BulkyGyara without the boost, it's not going to be staying in anyways because it knows you have an electric move and it has -1 Atk. If a ground like Garchomp comes in, you can Ice Beam, and is Swampert comes in, it doesn't make a difference because you can't hit it anyways without HP Grass.

I'm just saying that Charge Beam should get a noticable part in the options section.
 
BAM_UR_DEAD said:
I disagree with you on Charge Beam BK. Back when I first started battling, I ran a Charge Beam Pory2, and it worked out wonderfully. Recover, with the pseudo boltbeam in Ice Beam and Charge Beam, and then STAB Tri-attack rounded it out. It gives it the boost that it needs to do some decent damage while also taking hits well, without losing coverage or too much power. Although you can't 2HKO BulkyGyara without the boost, it's not going to be staying in anyways because it knows you have an electric move and it has -1 Atk. If a ground like Garchomp comes in, you can Ice Beam, and is Swampert comes in, it doesn't make a difference because you can't hit it anyways without HP Grass.

I'm just saying that Charge Beam should get a noticable part in the options section.
Click to expand...
Listed it under the other stat boosters.

I'm glad that this has at least been put up for discussion.
 
252/129/129 EV spreads are generally something you want to avoid. It basically says "I couldn't think of anything better, so I'm just splitting the EV's evenly without trying to find the best spread possible", which isn't good in general and definitely isn't something we want as on the site unless there actually is nothing better.

Porygon2 needs 252 hp and 100 sp def to survive Specs Draco Meteor - since you're using it as an anti-lead (and as far as I know there aren't any other significant OHKO's Pory is avoiding with those EV's), what are the extra sp def EV's there for? For the record Jolly CB Garchomp stands a chance of a 1HKO on Porygon2 with 252/0, so defense might be a good place to put the leftover EV's so you can solidify your survival. If there's still some left, make sure that Porygon can still survive with SR/SS damage included, or something along those lines.
 
Toxic and Thunder Wave should not be relegated to Other Options. They are much more useful than Hidden Power Fighting. Tyranitar is faster and 2HKOs you with CB Crunch or Stone Edge, so it's not much help with him (assuming you both lead). Porygon2 easily survives Weavile's CB Brick Break, so if it decides to stay in, it gets paralyzed. I doubt anyone would risk leaving their Weavile in (or switching it in on Porygon2) to get paralyzed. The status attacks are far more useful against a wider range of opponents. HP Fighting's biggest asset is that it hurts Magnezone, who usually carry Magnet Rise, so HP Ground is useless on them.

Heatran is almost always carrying a Choice item, so once you Trace Flash Fire, it will be forced to run. Like Weavile, Heatran is unlikely to switch in on Porygon2 for fear of a Thunder Wave, so surprising it on the switch is an unlikely scenario.

[SET]
name: Tank (or Wall or Standard or something)
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 3: Thunder Wave / Toxic
move 4: Recover
item: Leftovers / Lum Berry
ability: Trace
nature: Bold
evs: 228 HP / 80 Def / 80 SpA / 120 SpD

Is what I would list as the primary set. It still functions both as a lead and as a general defensive Pokemon.

With that EV spread, it still survives Salamence's Draco Meteor and has extra Defense to take repeated hits from Gyarados and such. Also survives a +2 Earthquake from Jolly Garchomp (if it doesn't have Life Orb). Enough Special Attack to OHKO most Garchomp. 228 HP (for optimal Leftovers recovery) and 80 Defense is actually better than max HP and 56 EVs in Defense. Special Defense EVs can be moved to Defense if you're not concerned with beat Salamence leads.

Change the focus of the second set from status absorbing to Recycle abuse. I haven't tried it in DP, but the ADV set was Return/Thunderbolt/Recover/Recycle @ Starf, which did work fairly well on occasion.

I would list a Special Sweeper like the one that BAM mentioned (Charge Beam/Ice Beam/Tri Attack/Recover). It seems like an inferior Porygon-Z, but Pory2's much better defenses make it a viable option, in my opinion.

Last set is novelty.
 
Fishin said:
252/129/129 EV spreads are generally something you want to avoid. It basically says "I couldn't think of anything better, so I'm just splitting the EV's evenly without trying to find the best spread possible", which isn't good in general and definitely isn't something we want as on the site unless there actually is nothing better.

Porygon2 needs 252 hp and 100 sp def to survive Specs Draco Meteor - since you're using it as an anti-lead (and as far as I know there aren't any other significant OHKO's Pory is avoiding with those EV's), what are the extra sp def EV's there for? For the record Jolly CB Garchomp stands a chance of a 1HKO on Porygon2 with 252/0, so defense might be a good place to put the leftover EV's so you can solidify your survival. If there's still some left, make sure that Porygon can still survive with SR/SS damage included, or something along those lines.
Click to expand...
Actually, your first statement was true. >_> Shoot me. Again, the main purpose of this thread is to bring out an, IMO, insufficient analysis to light out for discussion. And for my Garchomp calcs, I was for some reason stupidly assuming that I still ran my Bold one and a whole bunch of defense.....I'll come up with something in the next few minutes, watch the spot.


And Phuquoph finally comes up with something good, yay. :'D
 
BAM_UR_DEAD said:
I disagree with you on Charge Beam BK. Back when I first started battling, I ran a Charge Beam Pory2, and it worked out wonderfully. Recover, with the pseudo boltbeam in Ice Beam and Charge Beam, and then STAB Tri-attack rounded it out. It gives it the boost that it needs to do some decent damage while also taking hits well, without losing coverage or too much power.
Click to expand...

What I meant was that Charge Beam shouldn't be used on a set trying to take advantage of Recycle. That set was represented as a supposed "wall" set, and although I disagree with the concept behind it, if it were to be used, I couldn't see Charge Beam being a reliable enough option to use. It could, however, work on a dedicated Special Sweeping set, as Phuquoph suggested.
 
Hmmm. What should be the suggested EVs for the Recycle abusing set? Rather, what was used?

In D/P, there are more common Ground-type physical walls, i.e. Hippowdon, Gliscor, and Donphan. I guess it could still work, but perhaps with a Hidden Power as an option over Thunderbolt/Discharge?
 
Hmm, edited some more.

For a special sweeping set, should I whip up a Charge Beam set, a Specs set, or both? My main concern is that P-Z completely outclasses it at both (since it learns Nasty Plot for the former set), but then again, perhaps shooting for a defensive sweeper is also good.
 
A better defensive EV spread for the first set is 252 HP / 68 Def / 108 SpD, which increases both of Porygon2's defensive values a bit. It still allows 80 SpA, and does everything Phuquoph's spread does.
 
To be honest, just add to the comedy and call the first set "UPGRADE THIS!".

The Recycle set is driving me crazy just looking at the options for move #2. Just go Ice Beam or Discharge. Pory-2 won't mind the Attack drop since the Starf berry abuse would help him.

I'd actually mention how Recycle + Rest with Lum Berry could work on the second set moreso as a tank of sorts, or just a new set. Might be a litte bit crazy though to be honest.
 
Sage, care to explain exactly how it's better? Phuquoph provided an explanation, and I think that most analyses contain a brief explanation of the spread. Actually, I might keep Phuquoph's, I think they do the same thing.

M, I used to have the Rest/Recycle set, but it was voted down by consensus. Perhaps it should go in the Other Options section? But I guess your right, too many slashits are bad.
 
needs mention of sharpen IMO even though it only gets Return Iron tail and aerial ace for coverage unless you go with natural gift...then again maybe mention why not not because of the lack of a real physcial move pool but if you still want to try maybe a download trait one so you can get it in on something that will give it a attack boost and switch out for basicly a free swords dance
 
Download set was voted down as novelty.

Sharpen could be mentioned with novelty, but I think it should really stick to special moves, save for the Recycle-Starf set.
 
Age of Kings said:
Sage, care to explain exactly how it's better? Phuquoph provided an explanation, and I think that most analyses contain a brief explanation of the spread. Actually, I might keep Phuquoph's, I think they do the same thing.
Click to expand...
It just provides a tiny bit more defensive power for the same number of EVs, and does everything Phuquoph's spread does. The defensive power can be derived from HPx(Sp)Def, which I admit is an approximation, albeit a very accurate one. With my spread, Porygon2 gets a miniscule amount more on both defenses, but it is enough to lie outside the approximation's range of error.
 
AJC said:
needs mention of sharpen IMO even though it only gets Return Iron tail and aerial ace for coverage unless you go with natural gift...then again maybe mention why not not because of the lack of a real physcial move pool but if you still want to try maybe a download trait one so you can get it in on something that will give it a attack boost and switch out for basicly a free swords dance
Click to expand...

Man if you were a girl I'd be going for a pregnancy test immediately. You :really: need more periods in there.

Anyway, I see no reason to let Porygon2 resort to something like Sharpen. It's obviously not its niche and it's not like a +1 Atk Porygon2 is threatening enough to make use of that one free turn Blissey switching in and out. In fact, it becomes less useful because it had to split up EVs (unless you go with just Atk, but that is just awful). Definitely not good enough for in the analysis.
 
Now that finals are over, I propose a Choice Specs set with Download. I really think there should be a special sweeping set in there, but could a Charge Beam/Download set possibly work?

name: Porygon-Z, minus paper.
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Thunderbolt / Discharge
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power [Fighting]/Hidden Power [Fire]
item: Choice Specs
ability: Download
nature: Modest
evs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 6 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The purpose of Download is to increase your Special Attack if you switch in to a Pokemon that has higher Defense than Special Defense. Boltbeam is only resisted by Magnezone and Lanturn; whichever Hidden Power you select takes care of the former, and the latter is rarely seen outside of UU. Shadow Ball is a move with nice coverage; Cresselia and Celebi in particular hate it. The Hidden Power you select depends on who you want to cover: Fighting for Tyranitar, Weavile and....Porygon-Z! Hidden Power Fire destroys Magnezone, Metagross, and Jirachi.</p>

<p>A main advantage Porygon2 has over Porygon-Z as a special sweeper is that Porygon2 can take big hits. That said, investing everything into HP allows it to take big hits, surviving everything from Stone Edge from both CB and DD Tyranitars, Earthquake and Outrage/Earthquake from positive Choice Band Garchomp, and positive CB Meteor Mash Metagross. Because Porygon2 will go last, this set is best suited for a surprise revenge killer or destroying the opponent's physical walls. As a revenge-killer, positive non-Specs Focus Blast Gengar and positive Specs Porygon-Z using anything but Hyper Beam will both fail to kill. Due to the loss of Recover, this Porygon2 likes Wish-passing support.</p>
 
I really don't see where you're going with the Specs set. Sure, it can take hits, but without Recover, it won't be taking "big" ones. There's a bunch of Pokemon that attack better, including Porygon-Z, and a bunch of slower Pokemon that are stabler, like Heatran. So basically, there's no real place for a Specs Porygon2.
 
True. Then I guess these edits should remain where they are.

Also, how does a non-badged user submit edits? Should I just wait for a mod to upload it or something?
 
My only nitpick is, in the Opinions section, "the best Gyarados counter ever". There are plenty that can take hits from Gyarados better even without Traced Intimidate.
 
Maybe, although I can't think of one off the top of my head. Can these Pokemon also OHKO with Thunderbolt whilst sporting an instant recovery move?

Whichever way you look at it, Porygon2 IS the best Gyarados counter, so that should stay in the analysis.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top