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DP Research Thread #2 ("New")

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As annoying as it is, Destiny Bond does work through substitutes. It completely ignores the substitute and behaves like it normally would.

Edit: I wasn't actually trying to test this but inside the Battle Tower my Vaporeon had passed a sub to Dragonite or some other sweeper and the opponent used Destiny Bond the same turn I attacked.
 
I just had the best battle I've ever experienced. One thing I learned is that if one Pokémon out on each team has Shadow Tag in 2v2, they can switch out but their partners cannot. This was in PBR, so it would be nice to have it confirmed in D/P.
 
Footnote said:
I just had the best battle I've ever experienced. One thing I learned is that if one Pokémon out on each team has Shadow Tag in 2v2, they can switch out but their partners cannot. This was in PBR, so it would be nice to have it confirmed in D/P.
Click to expand...

It's been confirmed in DP for a while that Shadow Tag Pokemon cannot trap other Shadow Tag Pokemon.
 
Dunno if it's been posted yet, but Dark Void under PBR sleep clause in 2vs2:

-Resolves itself in order of fastest->slowest like other AOE moves. If the first Pokemon is put to sleep, the second automatically avoids the attack.
-However, it acts weird if the faster Pokemon has a sleep-curing item (ie chesto/lum berry). If the faster Pokemon is put to sleep, chesto/lum will activate, cure the sleep status, and the second Pokemon can be put to sleep by Dark Void rather than automatically avoiding the attack.
 
X-Act said:
Did you personally test this yourself? Remember that CHs seem to have changed slightly in DP (high CH moves now are only in domain 1 instead of domain 2, i.e. hit for CH only 1/8 of the time instead of 1/4, and Focus Energy increases your CH domain by 2 instead of by 1).



Again, is this data from a personal test?



Indeed it's not. And incidentally, neither is the Technician boost, since it boosts the move power as well.
Click to expand...

All but the Psywave test were from personal testing. I wasn't aware that CHs had changed in D/P, so I will retest Stick. Yeah, the Focus Band test was actually something like 11.(endless decimal places)%, but the games usually work in percentages such as 6.25%, 12.5%, 25%, etc, so I assumed it would be closer to that. I tested by killing my Pokemon repeatedly in a link battle. I am aware that certain moves/itmes have different effects in link battles, so Focus band may work differently in game, but it is link battles we are working on with Competitor.

EDIT: Yes, and having now seen Peterko's data, I can see the Psywave guess was wrong. The others should all be correct though.
 
Here's the Wring Out base power formula:

Base Power for Wring Out = 1 + floor(Foe's Current HP * 120 / Foe's Max HP)

Maximum Power: 121 (when foe is at max HP)
Minimum Power: 1 (if Foe's Current HP * 120 is less than Foe's Max HP)

The following data was provided by Peterko, which I used to find the formula:

Level 100 Jynx with 329 SpAtk stat is using Wring Out against Slaking with 162 SpDef and 442 Max HP.

Slaking with 442/442 HP: Damage done - 191, 197, 201, 208 (121 base)
Slaking with 441/442 HP: Damage done - 185, 201 [120 base]
Slaking with 406/442 HP: Damage done - 183 [111 base]
Slaking with 256/442 HP: Damage done - 105 [70 base]
Slaking with 240/442 HP: Damage done - 102 [66 base]
Slaking with 223/442 HP: Damage done - 96 [61 base]
Slaking with 138/442 HP: Damage done - 58 [38 base]
Slaking with 127/442 HP: Damage done - 51 [35 base]
Slaking with 84/442 HP: Damage done - 36 [23 base]
Slaking with 80/442 HP: Damage done - 37 [22 base]

The damage dealt when Slaking is at full health can only be obtained if the base power is 121. The others correspond to different base powers, obviously, but, together, they all correspond to the base power of the formula above, written in square brackets.

I'd assume Crush Grip works on the same formula, but we don't have a Regigigas to test it out.


EDIT: Another update, this time with Rage information. It seems like, in DP, Rage's Attack boosts do not last only for the subsequent turn, but they last for all subsequent turns until the user switches out. So:

Marowak used Rage!
Foe used Tackle! Marowak's Rage is building! (Marowak's attack's stat modifier is +1).

Marowak used Swords Dance! (Marowak's attack's stat modifier is +3).
Foe used Tackle!

Marowak used Fire Punch! (It attacks with 2.5 times its normal Attack stat).
Foe used Tackle!

Marowak used Rage!
Foe used Tackle! Marowak's Rage is building! (Marowak's attack's stat modifier is +4).

Marowak used Earthquake! (It attacks with 3 times its normal Attack stat).
...
 
I noticed on the move descriptions thread for dive it doesn't mention that surf can hit (for double damage I believe) during the charge phase.

I tested this in Emerald but not sure if it applies to D/P
 
Yes it does.

[NAME]
Dive
[SHORT DESC]
User is made invulnerable for one turn, then hits the next turn.
[LONG DESC]
User is made invulnerable for one turn, then hits the next turn. Surf hits Pokemon on the charge-up turn for double damage.
 
Psych Up doesn't get boosts from items.

About Water Sport/Mud Sport, they don't just lower the damage of Fire/Electric moves used against you and your partner. They lower all the Fire/Electric moves' power in the battlefield (by 50%).

To be clear, this means that if one of your Pokemon uses Water Sport, then any user of a Fire move targeted against any Pokemon will have its power reduced by half.

This effect ends when the Water/Mud Sport user switches out.
 
OmegaDonut said:
It's been confirmed in DP for a while that Shadow Tag Pokemon cannot trap other Shadow Tag Pokemon.
Click to expand...

Thank you, OmegaDonut. I was fully aware of that. What I was not aware of was the fact that dueling Shadow Tag Pokémon still trap non-Shadow Tag Pokémon. In other words, Shadow Tag does not "cancel out" other Shadow Tags present. It just allows you to switch out of Shadow Tag. The original research was very vague on this point.

EDIT: X-Act, nice Rage research. I'm not surprised that Rage got a boost, since so many other moves like Bide and Fury Cutter got similar boosts. I did a bit more Rage research of my own. In Double Battles, your partner can now provoke Rage by attacking your Rage Pokémon. This was not the case in Advance. What hasn't changed since Advance, however, is that multi-hit moves provide a level of Rage for each hit. So, for instance, if you were to use Rage with a Steelix and then smack the Steelix with five hits of Comet Punch from a Ledian, you'd get five levels of Rage.
 
I'd assume Crush Grip works on the same formula, but we don't have a Regigigas to test it out.

I can confirm that Crush Grip has a max power of 121.

Lv75 Regigigas - 247 Attack
Lv100 Latios - 149 Defense

Regigigas uses Crush Grip
195, 186, 183, 169, 166, 165

I don't have explict test results for lower HP, but at roughly half health, the power is around 60.
 
Footnote said:
In Double Battles, your partner can now provoke Rage by attacking your Rage Pokémon. This was not the case in Advance. What hasn't changed since Advance, however, is that multi-hit moves provide a level of Rage for each hit. So, for instance, if you were to use Rage with a Steelix and then smack the Steelix with five hits of Comet Punch from a Ledian, you'd get five levels of Rage.
Click to expand...

More useful (or reliable) would likely be Skill Link Cloyster pulling off a Spike Cannon/Icicle spear :p.
 
metal burst

description: the user retaliates against the foe that last inflicted damage on it with much greater power

besides the already known facts, which I can confirm:
- no priority modifier, you have to be slower than the oponent
- retaliates both physical and special attacks at 1.5x the damage (rounded down) they´ve done (budew did 1 dmg with absorb, metal burst did 1dmg, gastrodon body slam did 4 damage, metal burst did 6 damage)

there´s one more thing, it seems to fail if only your partner attacks you (fails against your partner) in a 2vs2 battle
 
Sleep Talk using 1PP on pressure foes: Sleep Talk itself does not target your foe, but instead targets you. Only attacks that target the Pressure foe will take 2PP from Pressure. In addition, the same goes for all support attacks (that target you/your partner and not the pressure foe), including Metronome.
Toxic spikes and sub: BPing a sub blocks toxic spikes, me and footnote found this a long time back and it's posted on the old research thread.

Since it's an unpassable boost like choice items, I assume I already know the answer to this... But is the speed boost from Unburden able to be copied by Psych Up?
More related questions: Is the Unburden boost a direct boost to the stat, or a "hidden" stage-factored boost? (is Unburden+1 stage equal to 1.5x1.5 (2.25x), or 2 stages (2x))
Has the unburden boost been confirmed as 1.5x?
 
Boa1891 said:
Sleep Talk using 1PP on pressure foes: Sleep Talk itself does not target your foe, but instead targets you. Only attacks that target the Pressure foe will take 2PP from Pressure.
Click to expand...

Two things about that, then: If you're using a pokemon with pressure and your teammate uses a move on you, does it take two PP? And (this is stupid but) if you use a move on yourself and you have pressure, it only takes one PP, correct?

If you use surf and your teammate and both enemies have pressure, does it take 2, 4, or 6 PP?

Finally, if you would lose 2 PP from using an attack but only have 1 PP left, can you still use the attack?
 
yes you can still use a attack with 1 PP left on a foe with pressure

pressure only makes you use up a extra PP after the move is done not before
 
Boa1891 said:
Sleep Talk using 1PP on pressure foes: Sleep Talk itself does not target your foe, but instead targets you. Only attacks that target the Pressure foe will take 2PP from Pressure. In addition, the same goes for all support attacks (that target you/your partner and not the pressure foe), including Metronome.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify (because the wording here is confusing), you mean to say that Sleep Talk will only lose 1 PP, period, because it's a self-targeting move. Right?

I'm just saying this because someone reading this could interpret this as Sleep Talk losing 2 PP when an attack move called up by Sleep Talk ends up targeting a Pressure foe, which I know is not the case.
 
Apparently the rules for Forewarn are a little more complicated than I thought.

Previously, it seemed that variable-power\damage moves like Hidden Power, Counter and Reversal got higher priority than regular attacks with a listed base power. So in an effort to see which of these variable attacks got priority over each other, I tried to encounter Dittos and have them transform into whatever Pokemon of mine had the moves I wanted to test.

Then my Drowzee switched in on a Ditto transformed into a Megahorn\Reversal\Hidden Power\Earthquake Heracross. I was trying to see if Hidden Power had priority over Reversal or vice versa. Instead, Forewarn alerted me to Megahorn (shortly before Drowzee was gored by said Megahorn).

So it appears that there ARE times when regular moves outprioritize variable-damage moves. My theory is that these moves actually do have arbitrary priority numbers listed (for the sake of example, let's say Counter has 100). A Megahorn, with its 120 power, would outprioritize Counter, but Take Down at base 90 would not. I'll test this further and let you guys know.

It seems that non-attacks, which have the lowest priority, all share the same priority and will thus be picked at random. Or it just may be that I haven't tested enough of these.
 
OmegaDonut said:
Just to clarify (because the wording here is confusing), you mean to say that Sleep Talk will only lose 1 PP, period, because it's a self-targeting move. Right?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Two things about that, then: If you're using a pokemon with pressure and your teammate uses a move on you, does it take two PP? And (this is stupid but) if you use a move on yourself and you have pressure, it only takes one PP, correct?

If you use surf and your teammate and both enemies have pressure, does it take 2, 4, or 6 PP?

Finally, if you would lose 2 PP from using an attack but only have 1 PP left, can you still use the attack?
Click to expand...
1. Using an attacking move such as Tackle on your teammate should activate Pressure (Trump Card + Pressure + Spite, anyone?), but using "ally" moves, like helping hand or acupressure, should not. I'll do testing to verify for certain.
2. Using a move on yourself will not drain 2PP if you have pressure.
3. I do believe pressure is 1 extra PP for everything with pressure you hit. If you hit 1 with pressure, it'd be 2PP. Two with pressure would drain you of 3PP. And if you hit 3 Pokémon with Pressure, it would take 4PP. This is what I remember, but it may be inaccurate- I may do testing at some other time.
4. Yes, you can use an attack with only 1PP on a Pokémon with pressure.


Omega: Perhaps moves like Counter and Hidden Power do have very high priorities, but things like STAB and weakness/resistance are factored in, putting Megahorn at 260. Just a theory, of course. Try Megahorn/Close Combat on one Heracross and see which one has higher priority when you switch in Hypno.
 
I didn't test STAB and super-effectiveness because TRE earlier maintained that those had no effect on Forewarn. And I can confirm this to be the case, at least for SEness. The first three times Forewarn alerted me to Megahorn, and I thought to myself "hey, maybe Boa's right here", but on the fourth I was alerted to Close Combat.

However, I've found that Explosion does trump Counter\Mirror Coat in terms of priority. So my preliminary priority list is looking like this:

Explosion
OHKO moves (and 160 power moves, if there were any)
Hyper Beam
Last Resort
Counter\Mirror Coat and other 120 power moves
Reversal\Flail
80 power moves, Night Shade\Seismic Toss, Grass Knot\Low Kick, Gyro Ball, Return\Frustration, Wring Out\Crush Grip, Dragon Rage, Sonicboom, Endeavor, Hidden Power, Natural Gift and Psywave
Signal Beam and other 75 power moves
all other non-damaging moves

Other moves I have to place:

Metal Burst.
 
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