Pokémon Dragalge (HA confirmed to be Adaptability)

[Agent Gibbs]

There was actually a thread a while back addressing the issue of Black Sludge vs Leftovers:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/black-sludge.3470127/

The issue with the Black Sludge being Tricked back onto something else of yours is really a small issue. These sorts of things are usually quite easy to predict, and there's never any guarantee that the opponent's Trick user will be alive long enough to actually Trick it back onto one of your teammates, especially when it's losing 1/8 of its HP every turn. The vast majority of the time, though, it really won't matter which one you choose since getting Black Sludge Tricked onto you isn't all that common.

 

[Pac-man9]

What do you guys think of an avalugg and dragalge defensive core

 

[Banryu]

I always prefer to run Black Sludge, because it means that the Trickster in question has to waste another turn Tricking it back onto one of my other mons. While they try to get rid of it, I can either predict this and switch my Poison-type in to take it back (thus making the opponent's action completely useless), or else just take advantage of the free turn and attack or KO it outright, since a TrickScarfer is liable to be outsped and possibly KO'd without the Scarf (depending on what I have in against it, of course). Recieving Black Sludge via Trick is never an attractive thing (unless you're Gengar or something) for exactly that reason, and if your opponent gets Leftovers from your Poison-type via trick, it has no incentive to waste any more turns trying to get rid of it-- it just nabbed (arguably) the best held item in the game. Thus, Black Sludge is screwing your opponent up either way, whether they're trying to pass it back to you or not.

Tl;dr, Black Sludge is ALWAYS better for Poison-types, IMO. (AND it doesn't take up a Leftovers slot for Item Clause, if that ever becomes relevant.)

What do you guys think of an avalugg and dragalge defensive core

I think Scizor and Excadrill and all those other offensive Steel-types are gonna give you a lot of hell. Maybe with a Steel trapper like Magnezone or something, since Avalugg can sort of handle Excadrill (which Zone can't), presumably.

 

[Green]

Just realized that Dragalge gets Play Rough, is there any reason to ever run him Mixed?

 

[Psylink]

FastFlygon could you update this thread? I feel like there's enough new stuff to update the OP. I would appreciate it.

 

[Karmacharged]

Just realized that Dragalge gets Play Rough, is there any reason to ever run him Mixed?

In LC w/ Skrelp, positively certain since both it's SpA and Attack are an equal 60/60, but I'm not completely sure about Dragalge. It's most likely going to be firing off SpA Moves in most matches, but Play Rough can be a potent move against Dark and Fighting - Types, so maybe, just maybe, it can be a somewhat good mixed Pokemon; even if it's Attack is a measly 75.

(If this is the case, which is unlikely, you'll have to use Dragon Tail/Aqua Tail for coverage with Adaptability)

 

[Supersdm7]

dragalge could be at least be a good fun and somewhat annoying supporter (somewhat better if raining)
Bold Nature w/ Luminous moss 128 hp & sp.def 252 def
Moves:
Haze
Sludge Wave
Toxic Spikes
Protect

You would say, why luminous moss, well because of its decent defenses and good typing it could tank a water move and balance the special defense at the same time
and with haze it would wall any set-up pokemon. plus it makes a good infestation fodder...

 

[nygerman]

I think Dragalge will be a gimmick pokemon in general. Every tier down to NU has pokemon with STAB EQ. This thing hits hard, but is slow as balls and gets OHKOed by any STAB EQ

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I think Dragalge will be a gimmick pokemon in general. Every tier down to NU has pokemon with STAB EQ. This thing hits hard, but is slow as balls and gets OHKOed by any STAB EQ

How many EQ's are usually on a team? 1 or 2? Dragalge is so underrated that opponents will often waste their earthquakes users before dragalge comes out, meaning in addition to his decent role as lead, he makes a great late game cleaner whenever somebody saves their special attacker til the end. Since I'm working on the assumption that he's going to UU, his role as a special counter will be greatly appreciated. Also besides RU, UU has the least number of stab earthquakes running around, so I think that'll be a nice home for him.

And why does everyone keep using gimmick like its a bad thing? Gimmicks have their place, and they are typically underrated imo.

 

[hotdogturtle]

And why does everyone keep using gimmick like its a bad thing? Gimmicks have their place, and they are typically underrated imo.

People tend to throw around that term incorrectly way too much... In terms of games it usually refers to something that's nonstandard and doesn't work the usual way, and may not be as good as the "standards". But I see nothing unusual about a Pokemon with Adaptability throwing around a bunch of high powered special attacks.

And being weak to Earthquake doesn't automatically make him bad, just like being 4x weak to Ice doesn't instantly make a Pokemon unviable, and Blissey dies to STAB Fighting moves. Dragalge still has a defensive presence on the special side, and you have to play its strengths in order to take advantage of it.

 

[Silver Scrapes]

I've been using Dragalage and it's a lot better than people give the poor guy credit for.

Sub + 3 Attacks:
Dragalage w/ Black Sludge and Adaptability
Modest Nature, 252 HP, 252 Sp. ATK+, 4 DEF
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse
-Sludge Wave
-Focus Blast/HP Fire

Focus Blast is generally the better option as it has far more BP than HP Fire, especially since the nerf. It's a very necessary move as it hits the Steel-types that would otherwise wall Dragalage. HP Fire is a viable option in its stead, however, since without it Draggy is completely walled by Aegislash. Dragalage will generally have the bulk to set up a Substitute on special attackers, and its typing does allow it to check Keldeo (IDK about counter since dat physical DEF) among other things. Focus Blast won't be hitting all that hard off 97 Special ATK, even with a Modest nature, but don't ever underestimate his two STABs and their power with Adaptability. He'll manage a 2HKO on Florges with Sludge Wave, which is awfully good for a special attacker VS. a special wall. He'll also nail Gengar for around 80% with Dragon Pulse, assuming it has not mega evolved. He's a powerhouse, and he's really easy to underestimate. His biggest problem is his SPE, but you may be able to slightly mitigate it with a Sub.

Bulky Specs:
Dragalage w/ Choice Specs and (ofc) Adaptability
Modest Nature, 252 HP, 252 Sp. ATK+, 4 DEF
-Draco Meteor
-Sludge Wave
-Focus Blast
-Thunderbolt/Dragon Pulse

Thunderbolt is my favorite option in the last slot, not because it hits anything particularly specific that he wants to hit, but because it can provide coverage, which is always nice. Adaptability Specs Draco Meteor hits apocalyptically hard, which is a feat you really wouldn't expect from our resident Leafy Seadragon. Sludge Wave is the obligatory secondary STAB, and Sludge Wave has a 68.75% chance to OHKO 252/252+ Florges after Stealth Rocks. Other dragons would kill to have a chance to OHKO one of their biggest checks just with some prediction skills. By my (likely flawed) calculations, even offensive D-Nite sets with Multiscale still active can't stomach a Specs Draco from this guy.
It's a Specs set, what can I say?


Dragalage's biggest problem in my opinion is easily that base 44 SPE (read: this thing will kick ass in trick room doubles). I think it's going to be too hellishly powerful with his solid STABs to be anywhere below UU, and unfortunately that DEF and SPE are bigger problems than I oft care to admit. He's going to be UU, and rather low UU at that, but you can bet you're finding this guy on my Gen 6 UU team. That crazy design, cool typing we've been waiting a long time for, and Adaptability - he's won me over.

EDIT: Anywhere besides in the EV spreads where I said DEF, disregard it because I meant HP

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

I've been running:

Dragalge@Rocky Helmet
Poison Touch
+Def/-Spd
252 HP/mostly Def/some SDf
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Dragon Tail
-Scald

On a sand team with hazards. Doing wonders. Poison Touch activating on Dragon Tail helps when I don't have Toxic Spikes down or they have Flyers/Levitates.

 

[zuldzin]

I've been thinking about using Dragalge as SDef wall in my team:

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 SpD / 128 HP / 128 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Toxic Spike
- Sludge Bomb
- Draco Meteor
- Surf / Thunderbolt

tbh i dont know too much about comp battle as this will be my first so all advices would appriciated :)

 

[wigglepuppy420]

When will we be able to get adaptability?

 

[Talpr0ne]

When will we be able to get adaptability?

We don't know, probably when the Global Link games will be released, but we could wait until the next main series game, or even forever. In the worst case scenario Adaptability could even be repleaced with something disappointing like Clear Body in the 7th gen(remember Chandelure?)

 

[farranpoison]

We don't know, probably when the Global Link games will be released, but we could wait until the next main series game, or even forever. In the worst case scenario Adaptability could even be repleaced with something disappointing like Clear Body in the 7th gen(remember Chandelure?)

To be fair, Chandelure never appeared anywhere in-game with its Dream World ability. We knew it got Shadow Tag because of data mining. Dragalge, however, has appeared in the Battle Maison with its Hidden Ability, along with numerous others. So, there's a good chance that these Hidden Abilities will eventually be released as they are now.

 

[Neo0MJ]

I've been thinking about using Dragalge as SDef wall in my team:

tbh i dont know too much about comp battle as this will be my first so all advices would appriciated :)

If you plan on making it your main spacial wall maybe it would be better to maximize its S.Def? I haven't tested it yet but mine uses:

Dragalge @ Black Sludge
Ability: poison Point
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP, 252 S.Def, 4 S.Atk

-Venoshock/Sludge wave
-Scald
-Toxic Spikes
-Haze

I know that I'm taking a risk with venoshock, but I feel that Dragalge has a lot of chances to poison its opponent with toxic spikes and its ability. Sludge wave is the next best thing, as its stronger than sludge bomb, though it has a lower chance of poisoning. I'm also considering a build where I use the ability Poison Touch and Dragon Tail instead of Haze.

To be fair, Chandelure never appeared anywhere in-game with its Dream World ability. We knew it got Shadow Tag because of data mining. Dragalge, however, has appeared in the Battle Maison with its Hidden Ability, along with numerous others. So, there's a good chance that these Hidden Abilities will eventually be released as they are now.

I really hope it gets its hidden ability, might make it a good user of assault vest. But until we do I think it would be best to focus on using it for defensive and supportive roles. Just my opinion.

 

[November Blue]

Dragalge has actually been performing quite well for me. Here's my set:

Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Scald
- Sludge Wave
- Shadow Ball
- Draco Meteor

It's bulky enough to take a hit, and powerful enough to KO back. Adaptability Draco Meteor will be great, once released. Dragalge gets a lot of switchin opportunities against walls and stuff, as it has a lot of good resistances plus a toxic immunity. Scald is great for Steel types that shrug off DM and Sludge Wave, such as Ferrothorn, Scizor, and Aegislash. Not sure why I put Shadow Ball there, heh.

 

[cpmd4]

Was just playing around with the damage calculator and it seems that Thunderbolt hits nothing other than Water/Flying types and Skarmory harder than the combo of Draco Meteor/Sludge Wave/Focus Blast with Adaptability. Sludge Wave hitting neutrally out-damages 2x super effective Thunderbolt (DM even moreso), and the only thing that resists Poison and Dragon are Steel types, making Focus Blast a more attractive option.

So unless you want to use Thunderbolt specifically to hit Empoleon/Mawile/Klefki more accurately (for less damage) or to hit Skarmory/Gyarados/Swanna/Mantine/Pelipper harder, it's a fairly poor choice for coverage over Focus Blast.

 

[Cyrus Cryonox]

Ya know guys...okay, first of all, excuse me if I have anything TERRIBLY wrong here, I'm not that much of a meta-enthusiast, although I have taken interest in it recently. Now, on the matter of the Pokémon Dragalge, according to Serebii, one of its Egg Moves is Venom Drench (Probably from Seviper or something like that). I've also noticed that another of its Egg Moves is Toxic Spikes. Plus, it learns Dragon Tail and Venoshock. where am I getting? Something like this:
Pokémon - Dragalge
Ability - Poison Touch
Nature - Calm (+ SPDef, - Atk)
EV Spread - 252 SPDef + 248 HP + 8 Spe
Item - Leftovers/Weakness Policy/Red Card
Moveset:
- Toxic Spikes
- Venoshock
- Venom Drench
- Dragon Tail

Alright, so, let's begin. The Nature and EV Spread seem, to me, quite simple to infer thanks to this Pokémon's Special Defense value when compared to its other stats and since if anything, we're using Dragalge as a special wall. Now, some choose to give it some form of offense, I'd much rather give Dragalge a more blight-like approach. Anyway, on to the next. The items are a bit of a toss-up. Leftovers because it's free recovery per turn (Although not a lot of it, those 20-40 HP could still keep you from being KOed.), Weakness Policy because if you survive a Super Effective Attack (Ice Beam says hi), suddenly that Special Attack doesn't seem so forgettable. Finally, Red Card can be useful to phaze something out the moment they hit you provided you don't faint(Not hard). Now, talking about the moveset itself. Toxic Spikes is my personal favorite entry hazard, plus I doubt Dragalge learns anything else as far as entry hazards are concerned. Venoshock really kicks in after they start getting poisoned, its doubled power + the STAB will hurt quite a few things. Venom Drench, a move introduced in this generation, works quite literally as a reversed Shell Smash, reducing Special Attack, Attack and Speed by two levels each. By now, switches will start happening, and that is when the hazards (Hopefully Dragalge is not your only hazarder, but if it is, Poison was never bad unless it was against Guts of Poison Heal Pokémon) really begin to snowball the match. The final move, Dragon Tail, helps with this. Yes, it is a Physical attack, but unfortunately Game Freak has yet to come up with special-based Phazing moves (Something like Repulsive Gust or whatever), so we'll have to stick with this one.

Now now, I know this set has counters, but then again every Pokémon has counters. I'll go ahead and list the ones I think are most notable and a couple ways to deal with them. To begin with, Poison types. They'll wipe their own slate clean of Toxic Spikes. To deal with them, get a Psychic Type or a Ground type. Seems easy. Next, Steel types. Frankly, Fire or, again, Ground types work well. Rapid Spinners and Defoggers. Well, just force them out of KO them with your best shot. Fellow hazarders who can hit with super effective STABs. Oh boy. Get either Taunt or defeat them as fast as possible.

And that's it for my concept of Dragalge. Maybe a good name for this set would be Alchemy Gone Wild, haha. Hope you like it, I'm highly interested in Dragalge myself.

 

[cpmd4]

*snip*

This seems like a lot of set-up/investment/support for a strategy that has some problems. Assuming you're building your team around him, what happens when your Dragalge gets KO'd? Dugtrio seems to be a huge problem for this set, preventing you from putting Dragalge out until he's dealt with. As well, Pokemon with Levitate or Flying type completely avoid your entry hazards too, and unless/until you have Stealth Rock up as well (I'd assume you would have it somewhere on your team, this set doesn't work well as a solo hazard setter) this set is useless against them. Not to mention that Defog cannot be blocked like Rapid Spin, so you'll need to deal with Empoleon/Scizor/any other Pokemon that has access to it as quickly as possible. Fairies are immune to Dragon Tail as well, so refuse to be phazed by this set and they commonly have high SPDef so aren't very afraid of Venoshock unless you've already got toxic spikes up when they come in. Mawile/Klefki are also immune to poison. Poison is a fairly weak attacking type for those opponents that don't care about the stat drops (think stallers or walls, though you at least have poison immunity yourself), and it doesn't hit Steel types at all. Dragalge is also physically weak and slow and especially as a phazer will be taking quite a few hits; relying on a Pokemon that cannot survive many physical hits, especially one that is weak to Earthquake, seems like a bad idea to me. Sure he can nuke their attacking stats, but his horrible speed means he is often taking a hit before he gets to do that. Leftovers are a MUST in my opinion, as it's the only thing that will keep Dragalge alive long enough to do an effective amount of phazing.

I do realize you'll have teammates, just wanted to outline some problems that Draggy here would have (every Poison/Steel/Flying type in existance, as well as Levitate the most common ability in Pokemon, Dugtrio, Poison Heal, Guts, Defoggers/Rapid Spinners, Mawile/Klefki, and don't forget that there are Pokemon like Skarmory, Heatran or Mega-Venusaur that are common walls that don't care about certain Flying/Steel/Poison weaknesses meaning you'll need lots of coverage), that makes it seem like you'd need a fully dedicated team to phazing/dealing with counter phazers/dealing with immune and problem Pokemon.

I like the concept, though, and would be interested in seeing the team you'd use for this set or if you have experience with it. Don't get me wrong here, not trying to put a damper on you, just trying to analyze what you'd have to deal with.

I'd also highly suggest having your own Dugtrio to trap Poison/Steel types since those are a big problem.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I like the venoshock set, but having a team mate set up T spikes might be preferable so you can have either toxic for flyers/levitators or focus blast to ward off steel types. I'd try toxic and go team him up with a dugtrio like cpmd4 said to deal with steels. Let me know how this set tests out, the shuffler + poisoning capabilities/abusing seems like it has potential

 

[Cyrus Cryonox]

To be honest (I don't know if this is meta-coherent or not), I was planning or getting a MP Magnezone specifically to blast Steels in the face. That's basically one less factor to counter the Toxic spread with. Suddenly Empoleon, Klefki, Mawile, Heatran, Ferrothorn and such aren't that much a big deal. As far as spinners are concerned, I believe some of them are clipped by either T-Bolt (Blastoise for the sake of an example) or Fire HP (Excadrill. Having an Air Balloon helps here.) As far as Levitate and Flyers are on the table, I think Gravity support would be cool enough to go with it, something like a support Clefable. Defoggers...yeah. Scizor gets gibbed by HP Fire and bird Pokemon get wiped out by T-Bolt. So far, my team for Dragalge would look like this:
Dragalge
MP Magnezone
Support Clefable w/ Gravity

 

[G-Von]

Any word on what Dragalge gets through breeding? I feel like if it gets Gunk Shot, Outrage/Dragon Claw, it might be able to pull off a banded adaptability set.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

The only moves I know of dragalge gets through breeding are acid armor, haze, play rough, toxic spikes, and venom drench. There may be more we haven't discovered and he might get more with pokebank, but it looks like his special level moves are his only real option