Emerald Battle Frontier Guide PLEASE HELP DEVELOPING

We were asking for the Gen IV Frontier....which I have played. Still a fair amount of horseshit involved, but it's far more surmountable, I would argue.
I ditched my old username and wasn't on Smogon when they came out, so maybe people here wanted the Gen IV one. Most of the discussion on the web I got into referred to Emerald's; because the G/S remake included stuff from Crystal, and people were upset the R/S remake ditched a big feature from Emerald.
And I do agree that one much easier, I think the streaks needed for gold were much shorter too.
 
Tfw you train up a CurseLax to be able to beat electrics and Annabel's CM Reflect Raikou solos you anyway. Why is it taking less than 30% from +1 lax body slam AND from CB Mence double-edge :/

Sigh this is just tedious at this point. So much for the Suicune/Snorlax/Salamence combo.

I'm certain Suicune+CB Mence is correct, Cune is so dominant and Salamence covers the gaps phenomenally (and cockblocks the hell out of Machamp/Heracross) but what's the other answer?

I can do Steelix or Flygon (yay more training...) But then what do I do vs Starmie et al?

Maybe the answer is leading Snorlax instead of Cune throughout the last round so that I can set up immediately vs Anabel?

The only other possible idea I can think of is a CM Reflect Celebi but that's hardly an option on cart

Edit: Amnesia Lax?
 
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Was the battle arena always this easy? After doing the tower for so long I'm noticing that arena opponent's scale in difficulty about half as fast as normal. My team of Zapdos / Metagross / Salamence are rampaging through arena right now, silver Greta posted little challenge and I've now acquired symbols at all facilities, 2 gold and 5 silver!

edit: lost my arena streak at 46 (boss at 56), but it was entirely my own fault, I got greedy in a situation where there wasn't any tangible benefit to doing do (zapdos vs blissey is always a loss for zapdos) and in not choosing the optimal move set metagross up for failure via counter, making salamence 1v2 a no-win situation (still should have won the mence vs mence but threw that one too lol)
 
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NixHex

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I have recently gone on an RNG spree, with some that are really hard-to-obtain or require breeding, in the last month. I'm exhausted and I want to just play the damn Battle Frontier again so I have something to do on the train. Here's what I got. Note that it put weird items like Sweet Heart since PkHex is made for all generations. I have all the relevant items so I'm down for any suggestions. Some of these sets I have copied straight from earlier posts in this thread, so thanks for the inspiration guys!

SUICUNE (Suicune)
IVs: 30 Atk
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Calm Mind

FLYGON (Flygon) (M) @ Inquiry Mail
IVs: 25 Def
EVs: 255 Atk / 3 SpA (lol woops) / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Hasty Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Protect
- Fire Blast

KINGDRA (Kingdra) (M) @ Sweet Heart
IVs: 13 Atk
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Swift Swim
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Modest Nature
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rest
- Rain Dance

REGICE (Regice)
IVs: 29 HP / 12 Atk / 30 SpD / 4 Spe
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Def / 252 SpA
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Psych Up

REGIROCK (Regirock)
IVs: 27 HP / 25 Atk / 25 Def / 7 SpA / 30 SpD / 17 Spe
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 40
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature
- Rock Throw
- Curse
- Superpower
- Ancient Power

SNORLAX (Snorlax) (M)
IVs: 22 SpA
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 Def
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Headbutt
- Rest
- Curse

ZAPDOS (Zapdos)
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
EVs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Agility
- Detect
- Hidden Power [Grass]

LATIAS (Latias) (F)
IVs: 21 HP / 5 Atk / 22 Def / 12 SpA / 19 SpD / 6 Spe (lol damn roamer)
Ability: Levitate
Level: 40
Adamant Nature (lol)
- Water Sport
- Refresh
- Mist Ball
- Psychic

REGISTEEL (Registeel)
IVs: 26 Atk / 30 Def / 2 SpA / 26 Spe
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 40
Careful Nature
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Curse
- Superpower
- Ancient Power

Even though I already have the Tower gold symbol, I want to go for long streaks now. I really need help with Zapdos and Snorlax. Note that Metal Sound and Extrasensory are not options on Zapdos because it came from LeafGreen. Here are some ideas I had in mind:

Snorlax @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Body Slam / Return / Double Edge
- Rest
- Earthquake / Shadow Ball / Sleep Talk

Only reason I'm considering Shadow Ball is for the few ghosts hanging around. Can't hit Gengar with Earthquake, unfortunately. But I think overall EQ would be the better choice since it covers Rock and Steel, both which are a pain for Snorlax running mono-normal.

ZAPDOS (Zapdos)
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
EVs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Detect / Rain Dance
- Light Screen / Rain Dance

Thunderbolt for diversity, but Thunder for rain in conjunction with Kingdra. I worked my butt off to get HP Grass so that's non-negotiable. I wouldn't mind RNGing another Zapdos with HP Ice eventually but for now, this is what I got. Other than those moves, this Pokemon's movepool is annoyingly shallow.
 
For Zapdos I recommend Thunder Wave for sure, and then any of Toxic, Light Screen, or Rest, the latter only with a bulky spread.

Either Shadow Ball or Earthquake is fine, I'm trying out Amnesia ATM. I wouldn't personally bother with Shadow Ball, worst case scenario you can PP stall a Gengar without too much concern
 

NixHex

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Thanks man. Didn't think about the PP stall; makes sense since I can drain myself of Curse, while skipping two turns of PP use from Rest whenever I drop too low for comfort. What would you recommendfor the Normal STAB attack? I'm thinking Return for the power and longevity, and her Friendliness stat should be maxed by now. Also I can just see myself getting frustrated by not having a way to hit Rocks and Steels more often than facing a floating Ghost.
 
Return is fine. I use Body Slam. The difference won't really matter much. If you're EVed for bulk (which you probably should be) you aren't one shotting things until +3 anyway
 

NixHex

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Return is fine. I use Body Slam. The difference won't really matter much. If you're EVed for bulk (which you probably should be) you aren't one shotting things until +3 anyway
It's max HP / Attack but yeah I see what you're saying, 110 base attack can't magically power through stuff on its own. Also, I have no problem cloning or re-breeding and giving it a bulkier spread. What spread works best for bulk?
 
I'm using the standard bulky CurseLax spread tweaked for my EVs, gets a good amount of special bulk to live attacks and throws in some defense up to 199 to better the Curses
 

NixHex

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The hax really is no joke. This battle took place on the "every pokemon gets a ribbon if you win this round" phase of Battle Tower Singles Lv 50, and I got to 56. Don't know if I'll go further since I already got the Gold doing open level.
 

NixHex

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arena_gold_shine.png
frontier_five_gold.png

Hell yes! For the first seven rounds, some sets that have already been discussed:

Regice @ Lax Incense
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Psych Up

Zapdos @ Leftovers
-Thunderbolt
-HP Grass
-Thunder Wave
-Light Screen

Flygon @ Lum Berry
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide
-Fire Blast
-Protect

Regice is such a bulky lead, absorbing special attacks and doing fine against most Fire attacks, while taking advantage of Psych Up for all those Double Team users. I've had a few instances where I trace a Dragon Dance (or two, from separate pokemon) and sweep. BoltBeam coverage is good as ever, and even bulky stuff (ahem Blissey) can be taken down just by spamming Ice Beam due to the three turn limit. Lax Incense sounds dumb as usually the hax is against you in the Frontier, but it came in clutch so many times, minimizing damage or stupid status moves.

Zapdos is Zapdos. I don't think I used Thunder Wave once in this run, this is just the same Zapdos I raised for Battle Tower. I may have used Light Screen for added bulk, but for the most part I just spammed Thunderbolt. I actually really appreciate HP Grass as it takes out garbage like Rhydon and less bulky Ground types. I think it even 3HKOed (too lazy to check the calc, but it's Modest) a Flygon in one of the later rounds, which was dope.

Flygon was pretty unnecessary for the most part but it's a fast last mon and will clean up whatever Zapdos can't manage to finish off. Not too much else to say about it except QuakeSlide coverage is always appreciated. Again, it's fast, and that's what matters.

In the final round I built my team around Tycoon Greta.

Heracross @ Choice Band
-Earthquake
-Brick Break
-Megahorn
-Rock Slide

Regice @ Lax Incense
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Psych Up

Latios @ Scope Lens
-Dragon Claw
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt

Fun fact: I have not moved Earthquake out of the first slot, so in battle 1 of round 8, I quaked against a lead Gyarados. Luckily the revenge kill was trivial. Anyway, this thing performed like a champ as usual. Offense is everything, and Choice Band is the best way to achieve that, especially with something this powerful. Against Greta, I landed the first Megahorn on Umbreon, and took a chunk out of Gengar before it revenge killed me with a Psychic Crit (not sure how I went first, and I don't think the crit mattered even from full health).

Regice didn't do much besides spam Ice Beam, then fainted to Destiny Bond.

Latios vs. Breloom... pretty self-explanatory. However, I must say that Latios got extremely lucky in the second to last battle. It was down to Latios vs last mon Walrein and 3HKOed with Thunderbolt, avoiding a potentially disastrous Blizzard. RNGesus has been kind to me today, ultimately granting me my fifth gold! Thank you everyone for the set ideas, it has been a blast.

This leaves my two least favorite facilities, which I'm just going to avoid for now. Instead I'm gonna mess with some Doubles Rain in Battle Tower, and/or make use of that Suicune that I worked so hard to get.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
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Against Greta, I landed the first Megahorn on Umbreon, and took a chunk out of Gengar before it revenge killed me with a Psychic Crit (not sure how I went first, and I don't think the crit mattered even from full health).
Greta's Gengar runs a strange combination of nature and EVs: Modest, but with 252/0/252/6/0/0 EVs. That puts Gengar at 130 Speed which is slower than a max Speed Heracross, even if it's Adamant.

Congrats for selecting the perfect song to go over that video getting the gold Guts Symbol!
 
Three weeks later we return to the evening shift and with that we return as well to the Battle Frontier, picking up at the end of round 5 from where we left off the last run through. Some might recall that we had much trials and tribulations with our Snorlax set, feeling heavily vulnerable to many special threats with a bit of bad luck. Well, after today I'm confident in saying that this lineup is one of the best (non-TrickBand cheese) 3 mon sets possible to bring to the Tower, if not the optimal one as we have finally vanquished Anabel and acquired the Gold Tower Symbol!

The triumphant team:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Brave
Ability: Pressure
HP: 401
Attack: 191
Defense: 267
Special Attack: 240
Special Defense: 264
Speed: 171

Moves:
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Rest


Snorlax (M) @ Chesto Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Immunity
HP: 497
Attack: 273
Defense: 199
Special Attack: 144
Special Defense: 294
Speed: 93

Moves:
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Rest


Salamence (F) @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Intimidate
HP: 328
Attack: 369
Defense: 196
Special Attack: 208
Special Defense: 196
Speed: 327

Moves:
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge


This is mostly a "fuck yeah I finally did it!" post but if anyone has questions about finally winning or about the team itself (Amnesia Lax!) or wants to try this for themselves I'm happy to go into depth on strategies and approaches to situations and how to play it etc.
 

NixHex

Rollin' down Rodeo with my shotgun
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Story time:
Last week I flew to St. Louis for my cousin's wedding where i'd be drilled by distant relatives as to why i'm not married, why my cousin is getting married before me, and whether or not i'm even getting married. Coping mechanism: start a second emerald file in order to obtain shiny, purposefully shitty natured Latios and Latias. I RNG'd the TID/SID the night prior. Two plane flights + a couple nights playing before bed + train rides to and from work got me through the game. In the end I gained:

LATIAS (Latias) (F)
ShinyLatias.png

IVs: 31/1/28/31/21/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Shiny: Yes
Gentle Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam


LATIOS (Latios) (M)
Minty.png

IVs: 24/25/3/31/19/14
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Shiny: Yes
Hasty Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

My weekend concluded like this:
maven.png

gold_spirits_symbol.png


In the end, I ended up putting both to use in the Battle Palace, making the past week and a half totally worth it... I guess. Latios performed graciously in the first 18 rounds (took me a while lol), and Latias was great in the final round against Spenser's weak (read: inaccurate) Blizzards from Suicune.

To be completely truthful, I hate Battle Palace. That is because most of the good natures (Adamant, Jolly, Modest, Timid, Calm, Bold, etc) are total ass, and the natures that are good in Palace aren't exactly readily available if you already have a bunch of Pokemon, especially for legendary or hard to breed lines. Hasty is okay I guess, but c'mon Gentle? I at least found use for the Lonely DD Tar I used in Pyramid, and my Naughty DD Mence did work. I already had a Hasty Gengar from my silver run long ago, as well as a Flygon that I didn't end up using since too many dragons. This run took a lot of luck, and not much skill or planning. I just used what was available to me.

Rounds 1-5
GENGAR (Gengar) (M) @ King's Rock

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 254 Spe
Hasty Nature
Level: 60
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Confuse Ray

SALAMENCE (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry

EVs: 56 HP / 100 Atk / 100 SpA / 254 Spe
Naughty by Nature
Level: 60
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast

LATIOS (Latios) (M) @ Scope Lens

EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Hasty Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

Round 6 (w/ Spenser)
GENGAR (Gengar) (M) @ King's Rock

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 254 Spe
Hasty Nature
Level: 60
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Confuse Ray

TYRANITAR (Tyranitar) (F) @ BlackGlasses

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 86 SpA / 168 Spe
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 60
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Crunch

LATIAS (Latias) (F) @ Scope Lens

EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
Level: 60
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

FINAL BATTLE

Three weeks later we return to the evening shift and with that we return as well to the Battle Frontier, picking up at the end of round 5 from where we left off the last run through. Some might recall that we had much trials and tribulations with our Snorlax set, feeling heavily vulnerable to many special threats with a bit of bad luck. Well, after today I'm confident in saying that this lineup is one of the best (non-TrickBand cheese) 3 mon sets possible to bring to the Tower, if not the optimal one as we have finally vanquished Anabel and acquired the Gold Tower Symbol!

The triumphant team:

Suicune @ Leftovers
Nature: Brave
Ability: Pressure
HP: 401
Attack: 191
Defense: 267
Special Attack: 240
Special Defense: 264
Speed: 171

Moves:
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Calm Mind
- Rest


Snorlax (M) @ Chesto Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Immunity
HP: 497
Attack: 273
Defense: 199
Special Attack: 144
Special Defense: 294
Speed: 93

Moves:
- Body Slam
- Curse
- Amnesia
- Rest


Salamence (F) @ Choice Band
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Intimidate
HP: 328
Attack: 369
Defense: 196
Special Attack: 208
Special Defense: 196
Speed: 327

Moves:
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Double-Edge


This is mostly a "fuck yeah I finally did it!" post but if anyone has questions about finally winning or about the team itself (Amnesia Lax!) or wants to try this for themselves I'm happy to go into depth on strategies and approaches to situations and how to play it etc.
Texas, congrats on the win! Glad to see the final sets. Are you going to continue climbing? I imagine those multi-thousand streaks that guys like Jumpman16 and turskain et. al get aren't possible on Emerald but it'd be cool to see how high you get.

Regarding Snorlax, has Immunity given you any notable benefits? I run Thick Fat to give it more resistances but it's so naturally bulky on the special side that I might be over-doing it a little.
 
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Story time:
Last week I flew to St. Louis for my cousin's wedding where i'd be drilled by distant relatives as to why i'm not married, why my cousin is getting married before me, and whether or not i'm even getting married. Coping mechanism: start a second emerald file in order to obtain shiny, purposefully shitty natured Latios and Latias. I RNG'd the TID/SID the night prior. Two plane flights + a couple nights playing before bed + train rides to and from work got me through the game. In the end I gained:

LATIAS (Latias) (F)
View attachment 118840
IVs: 31/1/28/31/21/31
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Shiny: Yes
Gentle Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam


LATIOS (Latios) (M)
View attachment 118841
IVs: 24/25/3/31/19/14
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Shiny: Yes
Hasty Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

My weekend concluded like this:
View attachment 118847
View attachment 118848

In the end, I ended up putting both to use in the Battle Palace, making the past week and a half totally worth it... I guess. Latios performed graciously in the first 18 rounds (took me a while lol), and Latias was great in the final round against Spenser's weak (read: inaccurate) Blizzards from Suicune.

To be completely truthful, I hate Battle Palace. That is because most of the good natures (Adamant, Jolly, Modest, Timid, Calm, Bold, etc) are total ass, and the natures that are good in Palace aren't exactly readily available if you already have a bunch of Pokemon, especially for legendary or hard to breed lines. Hasty is okay I guess, but c'mon Gentle? I at least found use for the Lonely DD Tar I used in Pyramid, and my Naughty DD Mence did work. I already had a Hasty Gengar from my silver run long ago, as well as a Flygon that I didn't end up using since too many dragons. This run took a lot of luck, and not much skill or planning. I just used what was available to me.

Rounds 1-5
GENGAR (Gengar) (M) @ King's Rock

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 254 Spe
Hasty Nature
Level: 60
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Confuse Ray

SALAMENCE (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry

EVs: 56 HP / 100 Atk / 100 SpA / 254 Spe
Naughty by Nature
Level: 60
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast

LATIOS (Latios) (M) @ Scope Lens

EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Ability: Levitate
Level: 60
Hasty Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake

Round 6 (w/ Spenser)
GENGAR (Gengar) (M) @ King's Rock

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 254 Spe
Hasty Nature
Level: 60
- Thunderbolt
- Psychic
- Fire Punch
- Confuse Ray

TYRANITAR (Tyranitar) (F) @ BlackGlasses

EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 86 SpA / 168 Spe
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 60
Lonely Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Crunch

LATIAS (Latias) (F) @ Scope Lens

EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Gentle Nature
Level: 60
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

FINAL BATTLE


Texas, congrats on the win! Glad to see the final sets. Are you going to continue climbing? I imagine those multi-thousand streaks that guys like Jumpman16 and turskain et. al get aren't possible on Emerald but it'd be cool to see how high you get.

Regarding Snorlax, has Immunity given you any notable benefits? I run Thick Fat to give it more resistances but it's so naturally bulky on the special side that I might be over-doing it a little.
Probably not for a while, though once I get all the gold's i might go for a 100 win streak. As long as I stay disciplined there's little reason I should be able to go for a long time, this team as is has become incredibly resilient with Amnesia adding lax insurance. I can only see runs ending to things like a lucky Quick Claw Dewgong or multiple crits from a CM Raikou. Immunity wasn't particularly helpful, only tangentially useful vs things like DT shuckle or the one Toxic Suicune PP staller set. Thick Fat would have been preferred but I was very very done with breeding when I got my Lax, and I couldn't figure out my timing for egg breeding rng abuse the same way I did with stationary Regice.
 
I was messing around with a Battle Palace team to find a team that can get as high of a streak as possible. I changed the Salamence in the video to a Wishmence though. The description of the video explains how the team works, the EV spreads, etc.


Edit: I've been thinking about some improvements for this team. Some of them are kind of obvious in hindsight, but I figure I may as well list these for my own book keeping.

After replacing changing Salamence's moveset, I initially came up with this moveset:

Salamence @ Shell Bell
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 20 Def / 136 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
-Aerial Ace
-Earthquake
-Wish
-Toxic
This Salamence is supposed to counter Fighting types, most notably Heracross, Machamp, Breloom, and Hariyama. 100 Atk allows Salamence to always 2HKO 170 HP / 170 Def Adamant Machamp (bulkiest Machamp in BF) with Aerial Ace. 136 Spe allows Salamence to outspeed an Endure-Reversal Heracross (which does not have Rock Slide) and an all-out attacking Heracross with Rock Slide. The main flaw with this is moveset is Toxic since many Fighting-type Pokemon have Guts, but I wasn't really sure what support move to run since Salamence lacks pretty much any useful moves that fall under the "Support" category other than Toxic and Roar. The other less obvious flaw is that this Salamence is never going to OHKO any Machamp (as far as I know because I haven't run the calcs on 0 HP / 0 Def Machamp since its set is garbage anyways). Some of these Machamp run Counter, so this can also backfire.

Careful is used because it allows Salamence to spam Wish at >=50% HP, which is the best time to use Wish (which may seem a little bit counterintuitive), while still having a decent % chance to Attack at both >=50% HP and <50% HP.

Here's my second idea for a Wishmence designed to counter fighting Pokemon.

Salamence @ Sharp Beak
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
-Aerial Ace
-Earthquake
-Wish
-Roar

With Sharp Beak, this Salamence is still able to 2HKO all Machamp (assuming Machamp is at +0 Def). Furthermore, I realized that outspeeding Heracross actually isn't that important since Salamence can just run lots of bulk. Most Heracross don't even have Rock Slide anyway, and for those that do, you can simply switch back and forth between Swampert and Salamence. 16 Speed EVs hits 240 speed, which outspeeds tons of miscellaneous threats in the frontier. There are a lot of Pokemon (mostly legendaries) that sit at 236 Speed, and a few Pokemon (most Breloom and one or two Metagross) that sit at 239 Speed. There is a rom dump available that is actually somewhere on this forum that has every single possible Pokemon in the Battle Frontier that I pulled this information from. Back on topic, Roar negates the problems with having Toxic as the support move for a Pokemon meant to counter Fighting-type Pokemon that mostly have Guts as their ability. Roar also allows Salamence to phaze Bulk Up variants of these Pokemon. However, this sit still has the obvious problem with Pokemon like Machamp using Counter, but this revised EV spread and moveset is hypothetically better. I haven't actually tested this moveset yet either.

Then for Salamence to avoid Counter from fighting types, I thought about using a specially-based Wishmence:

Salamence @ ???
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
-Flamethrower
-Wish
-Protect
-Dragon Claw / Toxic

This set basically functions the same as the set above, but avoids any issues with Counter. I haven't tested this idea either. Unlike the set above, this set is actually capable of being incapable of using its power. However, Calm nature means that Salamence will ever use a Support move at either >= 50% HP or <50% HP, so it's not very relevant. This Salamence always has a good chance of using an attack move or a Defense move (Wish and Protect) at >= 50% HP or <50% HP, and I think that Protect complements Wish much better than Roar does. Obviously Toxic is a better move to use than Dragon Claw in every single case except against Pokemon with Guts. However, the issue with this is that this Salamence is made to specifically counter these Guts Pokemon, and Pokemon Guts happen to disproportionately be Fighting-type. It is true that Calm nature has a quite low chance of using Support moves at >= 50% HP or <50% HP, so I guess it's still worth considering.

These Salamence sets made me think about some other possible Pokemon that hard-counter all Fighting-type Pokemon (including Heracross). Zapdos was the next Pokemon that came to mind. As I've stated earlier, the AI doesn't like to use Hidden Power. This implies that Zapdos only has a few potentially useful attacks available to it. These include Thunderbolt (obviously), Drill Peck, Extrasensory, and Sky Attack. From this, it's pretty clear that Zapdos is pretty much always going to lose to Ground (and therefore most Rock) Pokemon. Extransensory is also pretty useless at dealing with Fighting Pokemon specifically since Thunderbolt will already deal lots of damage. Electric/Flying would offer the best overall type-coverage, meaning that if Zapdos runs more than one attack move, the combination should always be Thunderbolt + Drill Peck / Sky Attack.

Here was my first idea with a Zapdos using 2 attacking moves.

Zapdos @ Sharp Beak
Nature: Docile/Quirky
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Atk / 196 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
-Thunderbolt
-Sky Attack
-Rest
-Filler (hopefully a support move)

With 44 EVs in Attack, Zapdos is able to OHKO all Counter Machamp 100% of the time (since all Counter Machamp run 252 HP / 0 Def with an Adamant nature). Even with an Adamant nature + 252 EVs in Attack + a Sharp Beak, Zapdos would never OHKO Counter Machamp ever. Zapdos needs a Choice Band with a lot of EVs in Attack to make that possible, which is obviously not worth it. That's why I chose Sky Attack over Drill Peck, even though the move is a gimmick in most cases. 16 Speed EVs are used to hit 240 Speed to outspeed the things I mentioned earlier. The remaining EVs went into HP and Defense to allow Zapdos to tank physical hits more effectively. However, there is a small chance that this Zapdos is 2HKO'd by 252 Atk Adamant nature Machamp using Rock Slide.

Docile/Quirky nature are the least detrimental nature possible since they lower neither of Zapdos's offensive stats, defenses, or speed. Docile/Quirky nature also gives Zapdos the best chance to use either an attacking move or Rest. The last move is a filler move since Zapdos doesn't have any other attack moves worth using, and the usual best support moves (Thunder Wave and Toxic) shouldn't be used just in case Zapdos decides to use them on a Fighting Pokemon. I obviously haven't tested this idea, but it's something I was considering.

However, I thought that Zapdos was a gimmick, so I decided to use something that focused on using only 1 attacking move. The first set I got was the following:

Zapdos @ Lum Berry
Nature: Bold
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 31/0/31/31/31/31
-Thunderbolt
-Rest
-Light Screen
-Metal Sound / Roar / Flash (?)

This very physically defensive Zapdos that can tank hits from every Fighting Pokemon. This Zapdos only takes like ~45% max from 252 Atk Adamant Machamp Rock Slide. I really wish Zapdos learned Reflect, but Light Screen is still an awesome move. Oddly enough, Light Screen falls under the "Defense" category and not the "Support" Category, so the last moveslot was dedicated to a Support move that does not potentially benefit Guts Pokemon. If these fighting Pokemon didn't have Guts a lot of the time, I'd definitely use Thunder Wave or Toxic. Metal Sound is a Support move that allows Zapdos's Thunderbolt to deal tons of damage, and Roar can phase some annoying Double Team users (if it hits). I suppose that Flash could also work on Zapdos since he's so bulky and has Pressure.

Bold is also a solid nature for the Battle Palace since it gives Zapdos a good chance to use Metal Sound and Thunderbolt at >=50% HP. Zapdos will most likely use Thunderbolt or Rest when at <50% HP. The other good nature is Calm, but I honestly think that the extra defense from Bold is probably better. I haven't tested this set as well, but I think that this Zapdos is a really good Fighting-type counter, so Snorlax has a higher chance to sweep.

(Note: The ideal Zapdos moveset to counter Fighting-types would probably be Thunderbolt, Rest, Torment, Reflect with the same EV spread listed if Zapdos learned Torment and Reflect. Reflect is pretty obvious since it halves the damage from physical attacking moves, but Torment is a little bit less obvious. Torment is considered to be a Support move, so it rounds out Zapdos's moveset nicely. Additionally, every single Fighting-type Pokemon only has at most one threatening move to Zapdos on their moveset at any given time. Thus this would allow Zapdos to very effectively deal damage to and stall out these Fighting-type Pokemon. Too bad Zapdos doesn't learn either Torment or Reflect, even though Gyarados somehow learns Torment lol)

Lastly, I can't believe that I forgot that Rest counts as a Defense move when I was thinking of a moveset and EV spread for Snorlax. I'll probably just replace Amnesia with Rest and use the same EV spread since you can't guarantee that Snorlax will stack lots of Curse boosts.

I know this edit was really long, but I was trying to think of a really good Fighting resisting teammate for Snorlax.
 
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Hello,
happy to see people are still playing emerald :)

I played a bunch of Battle Frontier too, and these are my conclusions:
IVs are extremely important. IA rarely invests in speed and most pokemon in the Battle Frontier are bulky waters and normal types.

The best trio to complete the battle frontier is the following:



Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Shadow Ball /Brick Break/Rock Slide

Banded Meteor Mash 2HKO every mon in the battle frontier, I wonder if someone actually managed to get the gold symbolds without him.
Earthquake is useful against the bulky waters that are very commun, and explosion takes care of an annoying mon you need to get rid of immediately (looking at you snorlax) or mons that can carry counter such as swampert and milktank. The last move will be a more accurate move than MM to kill either psychic, flying, or normal types.

For those playing on GBA, you can get a metagross adamant 27/25/29/11/28/31 38.80 sec after reseting the game.




Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Latios forms a good core with metagross, as they resist the other member's weaknesses. Latios has good speed and checks fire/ground types that can be annoying for metagross. Thunderbolt to deal with the bulky water types and skarmory, surf for the steel and fire types, especially houndoom. Since the AI doesn't invest at all in speed, modest nature is preferred.
Lum Berry is here because Soul Dew does NOT work in the battle frontier, and we need leftovers for the last member of the team.

Encounter after 1 min and 16.20 second gives a modest 29/21/15/31/23/29 Latios.

Now this duo can usually win on its own, but bulky water types, houndoom and some ground types can be very annoying.



Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Earthquake
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Swampert checks most pokemon in the game and should be kept for the mons mentionned above, as he has no recovery moves and can't stick around for too long. Avoid switching in swampert into an attack, as a critical hit or a SpeDef drop/burn will kill it in 2 turns. Protect is here for the passive recovery.

To get a good swampert you can use smogon's breeding rng manipulation.
Seed 0:12.71 is easy to get and gives good ivs.


This team can do the battle frontier without too many problems. Hoewever there are some pokemon that deserve to be mentionned for specific areas.


Battle Factory:

This place is the best way to get introduced to the battle frontier. The fact that you don't need trained pokemons and items is nice. You also get to know the pokemon's sets in the Battle Frontier Area.
Taking set with wide powerful coverage moves is very good. A surprisingly effective choice was the special attack gyarados set. Double team are good but makes battles longer.
A good way to build is to only consider water/electric/ground types when building, as the other types can be dealt with much more easily.
Skip good pokemon with bad movesets.

Note: According to werster, the opponent's IVs in the battle factory are tied with your current win streak at the battle tower, making it easier when you have 0 wins there.

Battle Pyramid:

Making specific mons is really good in this area, especially for the trapping round:


Linoone
Ability: Pickup
- Covet
- Return
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

Very good to use on the 3 first rounds, as pickup works in the pyramid. Covet can also steal an item from a trainer, pickup working even if linoone is dead.
When you have linoone in your team, your goal is to get a quick choice band that will make your life 10 times easier.

You can get choice band as item/pickup on:
round 1: Floors 2 and 6
round 2: Floors 3 and 7
round 3: Floor 4
You can also get sacred ashes and leftovers on other floors.


Blissey (F)
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Aromatherapy
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic

Blissey completly breaks the pyramid. Her ability to restore health and status to your other pokemons is amazing.She is good in all rounds besides 4,5 and 8. She also deals with zapdos and moltres against brandon which is always good. It requires RFLG and some breeding though.


Salamence
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aerial Ace
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide

Good mon if you get a second choice band. It can replace swampert after the first round and has a lot of pps to take care of the wild pokemons.
He doesn't have to struggle against the bulky water types that are everywhere on the other areas.



Heracross
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Megahorn
- Brick Break
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Very good for round 6 and 7, not so much for the other. Another great user of choice band.

Taking time to get as many items as possible during the first 3 rounds is great. After round 4, avoid trainers at all costs, as they rarely give useful informations but can end your run (Curselax being the main threat). Note that a square of trainers can be formed around the exit areas, so check out for those.
Round 8 can waste a lot of potions and revives but you should be fine overall.


Battle Dome:

If you use Metagross/Latios/Swampert you will always be in the top left corner of the bracket. With good IVs you should win easily as Trainers have all 0 ivs from round 1 to 10. The average EV spread they use is mentionned in their desciption before the match.

A good mon to replace Swampert for is Breloom, as you just have to choose him when you know when he is faster than the opponent and heavily abuse spore+substitute. Since AI almost never invests speed EVs it is a really effective strategy, but it cannot be used as easily in other facilities.The maximum I got with him is 20 wins in a row, which is a tesimony of how effective it is.



Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Leech Seed

There are no Jolly + good IVs before 9 min into the game so you will have to breed it. (see swampert)
Hyper beam/Return Banded Slacking is also a good option to finish the tournaments quickly.


Battle Tower:

Straightforward facility with the biggest downsides being that it has the biggest amounts of fights a.k.a chances to get haxed to death. Use the Metagross/Latios/Swampert core and hope for the best. On the last round, start Swampert, kill raikou, switch metagross vs latios and spam meteor mash.


Battle Arena:


Similar to Battle Tower but you have only 3 turn and you can't switch. Use the killer team and you won't suffer too much besides a potential houndoom.
You can use this link for more information about the mecanics of the facility.

Battle Pike:


Avoid double battles/NPC rooms at all cost UNLESS you only have one pokemon left which unsures you to have an NPC room. Doubles battles can quickly get out of control with some bad luck. Other rooms are fine, though status can be risky. Take the trio and you should win.
See the differents rooms possible


Battle Palace:


Your pokemons choose themselves the attack they will use so spamming A and while watching a TV show might be a great idea for the 3 first rounds :)
In this area, natures are extremely important, which is why you might want to replace your latios for another member with a hasty/naive nature. You can take another latios, salamence is slightly easier to get:


Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Earthquake

This area being extremely random means that you will more than likely get few deaths before winning the gold symbol.
Note: remove explosion from metagross.


With this you should get 7 gold symbols without much issues.

Battle Frontier is a really fun and I really hope they would accept to bring it back in Gen 8. Pokemon players are getting older and there is definitly an public for this kind of post-game modes.
 
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NixHex

Rollin' down Rodeo with my shotgun
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Has anyone tried OHKO moves in Battle Factory? I usually take Horn Drill Nidoking the first chance I get, and of course there's the Fissure / Sheer Cold Walrein. The gamble is actually worth it vs stupid bulky Double Team users which are ALL OVER the place (looking at you Snorlax), as it ignores the evasion boosts and becomes the best option really quickly. Risky in general? Of course. But they fulfill a unique niche.

I find Marowak to be an incredible lead, particularly with Icy Wind. It will most likely get at least one KO per match, especially in earlier rounds where the AI is more lenient and won't always go for a SE attack. Kingdra with Attract is my favorite Special lead. It's powerful and the cheating AI is unlikely to lead with a powerful Dragon move.

Overall though, Factory is just an awful facility - it almost makes Palace look enjoyable. The Pokemon in early rounds are really underpowered, making Double Team extremely difficult to break. Low PP is a bummer, especially with all the would-be-good Grass types relying on SunnyBeam.
 
Hello,
happy to see people are still playing emerald :)

I played a bunch of Battle Frontier too, and these are my conclusions:
IVs are extremely important. IA rarely invests in speed and most pokemon in the Battle Frontier are bulky waters and normal types.

The best trio to complete the battle frontier is the following:



Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Shadow Ball /Brick Break/Rock Slide

Banded Meteor Mash 2HKO every mon in the battle frontier, I wonder if someone actually managed to get the gold symbolds without him.
Earthquake is useful against the bulky waters that are very commun, and explosion takes care of an annoying mon you need to get rid of immediately (looking at you snorlax) or mons that can carry counter such as swampert and milktank. The last move will be a more accurate move than MM to kill either psychic, flying, or normal types.

For those playing on GBA, you can get a metagross adamant 27/25/29/11/28/31 38.80 sec after reseting the game.




Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Psychic
- Dragon Claw
- Thunderbolt
- Surf

Latios forms a good core with metagross, as they resist the other member's weaknesses. Latios has good speed and checks fire/ground types that can be annoying for metagross. Thunderbolt to deal with the bulky water types and skarmory, surf for the steel and fire types, especially houndoom. Since the AI doesn't invest at all in speed, modest nature is preferred.
Lum Berry is here because Soul Dew does NOT work in the battle frontier, and we need leftovers for the last member of the team.

Encounter after 1 min and 16.20 second gives a modest 29/21/15/31/23/29 Latios.

Now this duo can usually win on its own, but bulky water types, houndoom and some ground types can be very annoying.



Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
- Earthquake
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Swampert checks most pokemon in the game and should be kept for the mons mentionned above, as he has no recovery moves and can't stick around for too long. Avoid switching in swampert into an attack, as a critical hit or a SpeDef drop/burn will kill it in 2 turns. Protect is here for the passive recovery.

To get a good swampert you can use smogon's breeding rng manipulation.
Seed 0:12.71 is easy to get and gives good ivs.


This team can do the battle frontier without too many problems. Hoewever there are some pokemon that deserve to be mentionned for specific areas.
I wouldn't say the team that Werster used on his gold symbol speedrun is "optimal." It's a good team if all you care about is getting the gold symbols, but it's nothing even close to the level of jumpman's Battle Tower team in Pt/Hg/Ss. If you're going for the highest score possible, that team can easily get destroyed if Pokemon like Curselax are sent out at the wrong time, Quickclaw bullshit, etc. As your streak becomes longer, there is simply a higher chance that things will not work in your favor, and this team literally has no countermeasures to that. None of the Pokemon on this team can heal themselves. Also, if you're going for a high score, the Pokemon you'll be facing after a few rounds have 31 IVs in every stat, and most of the Pokemon used will be pulled from the top category. Saying things like "none of Pokemon in the BF run speed" isn't really true. The highest speed stat in the frontier is a Timid Jolteon with 394 speed, which is literally the highest possible speed Jolteon can have. This is a ROM dump that contains every single Pokemon used in the Battle frontier and gives all their EV spreads and everything. The reason you don't see a lot of Pokemon like Raikou at the 361 speed benchmark is because they all run Modest nature with max speed. A general trend seems to be that Pokemon above 100 base speed usually use neutral natures in speed and boost an attack stat instead. This can be seen with other Pokemon like Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Sceptile, Aerodactyl, Dugtrio, Jolteon, etc.

Another thing I want to mention is that this team also has no way of dealing with bad luck in the Battle Pike. If we assume that this same team is used for all of the facilities and if your Pokemon all get statused from choosing the wrong room, you have no way to get around that. There isn't really one optimal team for every facility in this game. You really have to tailor your team towards the facility if you care about high score since each facility has something about it that changes which strategies are really good. If anything, Blissey is hands down the best Pokemon in the entire game to use in the Battle Pike since it has Natural Cure, Aromatherapy, Softboiled (for its out-of-battle effects), and really solid bulk.

I guess one last thing worth mentioning would be that Choice Band Slaking would probably be on the optimal team for the Battle Dome. This is because you always get to see your opponent's Pokemon and you can use teammates like Destiny Bond Gengar and Selfdestruct Snorlax to ensure that Slaking almost always plays in a 1v1 match, where being choice locked and having Truant aren't nearly as large of liabilities.

Werster obtained the information you're relaying but in more detail here. Hozu should be thanked because this information is absolutely vital (imo) for making really good teams, and it's just great information to know in general.
 
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I wouldn't say the team that Werster used on his gold symbol speedrun is "optimal." It's a good team if all you care about is getting the gold symbols, but it's nothing even close to the level of jumpman's Battle Tower team in Pt/Hg/Ss. If you're going for the highest score possible, that team can easily get destroyed if Pokemon like Curselax are sent out at the wrong time, Quickclaw bullshit, etc. As your streak becomes longer, there is simply a higher chance that things will not work in your favor, and this team literally has no countermeasures to that. None of the Pokemon on this team can heal themselves. Also, if you're going for a high score, the Pokemon you'll be facing after a few rounds have 31 IVs in every stat, and most of the Pokemon used will be pulled from the top category. Saying things like "none of Pokemon in the BF run speed" isn't really true. The highest speed stat in the frontier is a Timid Jolteon with 394 speed, which is literally the highest possible speed Jolteon can have. This is a ROM dump that contains every single Pokemon used in the Battle frontier and gives all their EV spreads and everything. The reason you don't see a lot of Pokemon like Raikou at the 361 speed benchmark is because they all run Modest nature with max speed. A general trend seems to be that Pokemon above 100 base speed usually use neutral natures in speed and boost an attack stat instead. This can be seen with other Pokemon like Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Sceptile, Aerodactyl, Dugtrio, Jolteon, etc.

Another thing I want to mention is that this team also has no way of dealing with bad luck in the Battle Pike. If we assume that this same team is used for all of the facilities and if your Pokemon all get statused from choosing the wrong room, you have no way to get around that. There isn't really one optimal team for every facility in this game. You really have to tailor your team towards the facility if you care about high score since each facility has something about it that changes which strategies are really good. If anything, Blissey is hands down the best Pokemon in the entire game to use in the Battle Pike since it has Natural Cure, Aromatherapy, Softboiled (for its out-of-battle effects), and really solid bulk.
I used this team before discovering werster was using this trio.

Metagross and latio are obvious choices as they can be useful in most facilities AND have good synergy. The 3rd member of the group was harder to find. salamence, blaziken and tyranitar are too weak vs bulky waters, blissey and snorlax don't deal well with ground types and are suseptible to get haxed, breloom is too slow and makes the core weak to fast special sweepers. I haven't tried many other mons to complete the core but swampert works well, and getting gold symbols on first try with this team is doable on many facilities.


To answer on the speed argument, I still consider the amount of mons you outspeed with timid nature is limited. Most of these mons can't 1v1 latios and when they can, they are countered by either swampert or metagross.
Modest gives nice OHKOs/2HKOs that are not always possible with timid nature.

To my knowledge the biggest win streak at the emerald battle tower is 1044, and involves takings bad mons to negate the auto luck factor created by the game.


My b on the trainer list though. Props to Hozu.
 
Excuse me what

If that's true go post a picture and a shitton of details in this thread please
I didn't get this record, it's a french guy named mystic251.
He shows his records in this vid and roughly explain how he managed to get such high scores in this blog. (it's in french)
I can translate what he wrotes in the blog later.

To answer NixHex I'm too scared of missing 5 horn drills in a row so I stopped trying this thing :/
 
Yes this guy, I am not that surprised to see someone already speaked on his behalf lol.
His streaks are insane but he really fits the type of guy playing all day until he gets an insane score. Not to put him down but this is probably to the point it has a negative impact on his education, as he makes a lot of grammar mistakes on his blog.
I do believe these scores are legit.
 

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