why are all the sets max hp and attack?
why not max attack and max speed with jolly so it can outspeed walls like slowbro?
why not max attack and max speed with jolly so it can outspeed walls like slowbro?
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Escavalier
- Thread starter TEA_DEMON
- Start date
Because their is nothing that slowbrow can do to him that he fears. (Besides a scald burn)
I mean, he's so slow it's just better to annihilate whatever is attacking you on the next turn, or put it all into defenses so that you can stall/take the hit of whatever it is that you want really.
Yeah, real mature there. Are you going to act like a six year old now and accuse me of getting my ass kicked by Escavalier? No, Escavalier never 6-0'd me because I never honestly met someone who would use Escavalier. I see Scizor much more often. And even if I met an escavalier, I don't see how it can sweep a team, with that incredibly low speed (with no technician bullet punch), and very shallow offensive movepool that most walls can take (skarmory and forretress says hi).
And because "you like him more" is not a competitive reason why you would use something over something better. That's like saying, if you were playing chess, and your pawn was able to reach the other side of the board, you would rather have another bishop instead of another queen just because "you like diagonal man". No one ever won tournaments or beat professionals at this game because they just "liked" a certain pokemon. If that happened, you would see Pikachu fanboys win uber matches because they "liked" Pikachu.
If you think that Escavalier competes with Scizor for roles, show me the proof. If it competes with Scizor so bad, then why isn't its usage as high as Scizor? If people think it's as good as scizor, then where are the usage stats that SHOWS Escavalier are favored on teams more often?
And no, I'm not picking on Escavalier because it looks bad (as a matter of fact, I think it's a very creative idea for a pokemon), but because there are just better pokemon out there. I'm not saying it's a bad pokemon (it's good for an attacker), it's just that Scizor is better. It's like Blaziken vs. Infernape. Sure, Blaziken had great mixed stats, an awesome typing, and a very wide movepool, but Infernape was just better than it at doing its job. That's why Blaziken was UU, and Infernape was OU. If Infernape never existed, then I'm positive Blaziken would be OU.
Look, I'm done explaining to you this shit. I have no problem with you using it, or anyone else using it as a matter of fact. I'm only here to say that Scizor can perform this guy's role so much better. Show me multiple reasons why Escavalier can be better, or find a niche set Scizor cannot perform or outclass it in (except for TR, because Escavalier is king in that), then I'll be convinced.
Maxing out that 20 base speed won't outspeed much, besides maybe slow walls, but it doesn't have trouble with them in the first place (unless they have a surprise HP fire). Giving max HP gives a substantial amount of bulk that ensures it can survive hits better.
Ok, i'm going to dispute this stupid claim right now. A 4/0 Gyarados takes 45.9% - 54.1% from a Choice Band Return, which is a guranteed 2HKO with Stealth Rock, and even Megahorn pulls off the same task, shaving off 40.5% - 47.7%. Bulky Gyarados does fare a bit better, but still doesn't fidn the time to set up safely, having Return deal 36.8% - 43.5%, which I think is a slight chance of not 2HKOing with Stealth Rock, but Gyarados is getting no chance of setting up here. a Meaghorn definitley doesn't 2HKO, dealing 32.4% - 38.1%, but Gyarados is being left with around 18% of his HP remaining.
Someone's a little late. I either messed up on the calcs, or it's marriland's fault. Either way, I take back what I said.
I agree with the notion that Escavalier should never run speed EV's, but it is threatened by Flamethrower. Just thought I'd point that out as I'm posting anyway.
It is not directly outclassed due to one move: Megahorn. If you want a "Scout" (as good as scouts can be this gen due to team preview) then you want CB Scizor. If you want a bulky SD sweeper, you want Specially Defensive Scizor. If you want a Trick Room Sweeper, you pick Escavalier. If you want to spam Megahorn (while still checking most threats Scizor does as well), you use Escavalier. The raw power of Megahorn is what sets it apart. It is by no means useless, but for the average team, Scizor is generally better.
A better comparison would be picking Machamp over Conkeldurr. If you don't want the priority of Mach Punch, and you don't want to attempt a sweep with Bulk Up, why not? There are still positives, even if the average team prefers Conkeldurr.
Did you even read my earlier posts? I already know of megahorn and TR abuse, as well as extra bulk. Those are small niches that Escavalier has over Scizor, but in the long run, it isn't worth it. (except for TR abuse, that's some good shit).
Then why do you keep asking for more reasons to use him? Scizor is easier to fit on any average team, but Excavalier can provide the insane power that some teams would rather prefer. It's sorta like Hydreigon and Latios: Latios may be able to fit on the average team with more ease, but Hyderigon has many perks that make it a viable option for some teams.
No admittedly I didn't. The impression I was getting from your post is that Escavalier is useless. If we both agree that Scizor is generally better and Escavalier does have some advantages over Scizor in certain circumstances, then there's nothing to argue about lol.
You're absolutely correct there. Escavalier DOES have its perks over scizor, which I already said in several posts ago. As I have said before, it is just not enough. Megahorn, better defenses, slightly higher attack, and TR abuse is not enough to make it stand out from scizor. There are instances that Escavalier is better than scizor for some teams. However, I can't think of any team that would prefer Esca instead of Scizor. (besides trick room, once again)
Also, just a small nitpick. Hydreigon and Latios are too different to compare to Scizor and Escavalier.
You do realise you are contradicting yourself right?
You can't say both "Escavalier DOES have its perks over scizor" and "it is just not enough" because a perk the definition of it being enough.
Then, please, stop saying "he's outclassed, he's out classed, he's outclassed"
The point is to discuss him, if it means a comparison, that's fine, just don't endlessly repeat "he's out classed" over and over. Also, don't act like you have a personal vendetta against the guy, the reason people are attacking you is because you're posts are hostile, so we post hostile responses.
So, clean slate.
Team's that already have a scout, bulky teams, stall teams, damage sponge, toxic spreader, trick room counter...
No, it is not. A perk is when a pokemon has something over another pokemon. For example, Flareon has a higher attack than Arcanine. That's a perk flareon has. Is it enough to ensure that Arcanine is not used more/ouclasses it? No it isn't. Otherwise, you would see Flareon and Arcanine both equally being used.
I was hostile? LOL! I'm no longer taking you seriously anymore.
Oh good, that means I can now ignore everything you've said. :naughty:
Flamethrower says hi, but really it's not worth it to invest in speed, when you can invest in HP and or SpD and take special hits better.
lol @ all these previous posts about scizor vs escavalier
I am sorry to beat a dead horse and all... but outside of his trick room niche... this guy is very underwheming.... very.... i know this place is chock full of escavalier fans and all but for sheer utility scizor is just a better pokemon... i dont think anyone can deny that... like once you see escavlier on the team preview, you pretty much know what it can do... if there arent trick room supporting pokemon, then it is almost always choice band... otherwise its swords dance... 9 times out of 10 anyways...
the choice band set is ok... but locking yourself into megahorn isnt always the best thing to do.... and the other moves can be set up on by a handful of very scary pokes... I didnt say a bunch.. but a handfull... and because of its weak movepool u can have serious problems even with the choice band set... if u trap something with pursuit... u can be set up on by alot of pokes... (fighting trio? sd lucario? pretty much any steel type?). if u predict a switch and use return... even if you predict correctly... after the opponent knows your locked into return.. ghosts and bulky pokemon can set up on you...
Even on trickroom the thing is not doing much to swiftnite... it can stall out the 5 turns of trick room or simply phase it whenever it wants... granted that is ONE pokemon... but i just used it as an example... there are a few others that are just not very threatened by the guy... (cursepert loves trick room escavlier to set up on)
I cant really even begin to ponder why we are comparing the two to be honest... as a ton of previous posters said... they have different niches. I dont think anyone is denying that... I think it boils down to the fact that almost any escavlier you see... is one of two types of escavlier... and even if you dont predict the right one... it aint as bad as mispredicting swords dance vs cb scizor...
Not trying to ruffle any feathers here... just thought i would point out the obvious...
I am sorry to beat a dead horse and all... but outside of his trick room niche... this guy is very underwheming.... very.... i know this place is chock full of escavalier fans and all but for sheer utility scizor is just a better pokemon... i dont think anyone can deny that... like once you see escavlier on the team preview, you pretty much know what it can do... if there arent trick room supporting pokemon, then it is almost always choice band... otherwise its swords dance... 9 times out of 10 anyways...
the choice band set is ok... but locking yourself into megahorn isnt always the best thing to do.... and the other moves can be set up on by a handful of very scary pokes... I didnt say a bunch.. but a handfull... and because of its weak movepool u can have serious problems even with the choice band set... if u trap something with pursuit... u can be set up on by alot of pokes... (fighting trio? sd lucario? pretty much any steel type?). if u predict a switch and use return... even if you predict correctly... after the opponent knows your locked into return.. ghosts and bulky pokemon can set up on you...
Even on trickroom the thing is not doing much to swiftnite... it can stall out the 5 turns of trick room or simply phase it whenever it wants... granted that is ONE pokemon... but i just used it as an example... there are a few others that are just not very threatened by the guy... (cursepert loves trick room escavlier to set up on)
I cant really even begin to ponder why we are comparing the two to be honest... as a ton of previous posters said... they have different niches. I dont think anyone is denying that... I think it boils down to the fact that almost any escavlier you see... is one of two types of escavlier... and even if you dont predict the right one... it aint as bad as mispredicting swords dance vs cb scizor...
Not trying to ruffle any feathers here... just thought i would point out the obvious...
Couple things. Dragonite no matter the set isn't going to enjoy taking choice banded iron heads anytime soon. Also no one really runs Cursepert at all.
You do like the ellipsis a lot, don't you? Apart from that, almost every pokemon has its hard counters. Some don't, and as such, they have been banished to Ubers. That's not quite the valid point... And if you mispredict the kind of Escavalier you're facing, you most likely have yourslef a dead poke on your hands. Not what you usually want :P
Dude flareon has no perk over arcanine. You need to see his movepool first.
A good example of perk and advantage was Dnite and mence in G4.
I think what needs to be said here is that if you're not going to post something constructive here, don't post at all. No one here wants to hear "Scizor's better, it's outclassed, Lol @ Escavalier fanboys" over and over again...
It's such a shame, Escavalier has a base 135 Attack, yet has nothing to show for it, except for Megahorn.
^^ nod