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Espeon

Vash1306 said:
Can someone please explain Magic Mirror again? I know it reflex stat changing effects but entry hazards as well? Also if Espeon is sent out with Stealth Rock or any other entry hazard, will it reflect the damage?
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No, Espeon would still take SR/Spikes damage/be poisoned by Toxic Spikes if it switched into those hazards.

However, if Espeon switches into an a opponent that is using SR or Toxic Spikes, the hazards will end up on your opponents side of the field, not yours.
 
Leading with Espeon doesn't have that much merit apart from an auto-Taunt since Metagross, Heatran, Azelf and everything will just screw it up by attacking directly. And when it's forced out the opposing lead will have a chance to get up its hazards anyway. I just feel a better idea would be starting with a Metagross or anything that invites Taunt or opposing Skarmory/Forretress to set-up their hazards and then switching Espeon in on the first turn to reflect Taunt or snatch some hazards for free.
 
Shimrit As said:
Leading with Espeon doesn't have that much merit apart from an auto-Taunt since Metagross, Heatran, Azelf and everything will just screw it up by attacking directly. And when it's forced out the opposing lead will have a chance to get up its hazards anyway. I just feel a better idea would be starting with a Metagross or anything that invites Taunt or opposing Skarmory/Forretress to set-up their hazards and then switching Espeon in on the first turn to reflect Taunt or snatch some hazards for free.
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Ah but that is why u dont lead with it! Start with a pokemon then when the opponent begins setting up switch in Espeon! They'll set up FOR you! :D
 
Charlemagne said:
No, Espeon would still take SR/Spikes damage/be poisoned by Toxic Spikes if it switched into those hazards.

However, if Espeon switches into an a opponent that is using SR or Toxic Spikes, the hazards will end up on your opponents side of the field, not yours.
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Wait, what? How does that even happen? They're not "Stat-changing" moves, IIRC - unless you are talking about the changes that would occur to your HP?
 
When I saw this change I was thinking more of a choice specs set, switching Espeon in and out. For example if you know they're going to use Toxic/Thunder wave next turn, swap in Espeon, as they switch hit the switch in with a strong hit, then switch out.

A lot of things are faster then Espeon this gen, getting it in and out and hitting hard will be more important for it then setting itself up.
 
This is great news! Espeon has been my all time favourite Pokemon for a very long time and now isn't outclassed by Alakazam :D

This is a great ability, I can see Espeon switching into a Stealth Rock... opponent rage :D
 
I suppose the only thing that makes Espeon viable over Alakazam is the new awesome ability it gets...maybe it could work with something like Swampert where its fairly predictable that the enemy is going to Taunt/rocks and get in Espeon to reflect it back (It reflects taunt back right?).Other than that it still seems kidna outclassed except when you can get it in on a few predicted Toxic/Thunder wave....
 
Wasted said:
Wait, what? How does that even happen? They're not "Stat-changing" moves, IIRC - unless you are talking about the changes that would occur to your HP?
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'Cause Magic Mirror doesn't only reflect stat-changing moves. It reflects Thunder Wave, Will-o-Wisp, Stealth Rock, Spikes, Confuse Ray...


I'm pretty sure it was every status move that caused problems to the opponent, other than Teeter Dance?
 
Magic Mirror is an incredible ability and I think Espeon is going to be huge. There isn't a question of a doubt about Alakazam being outclassed now - this ability is just that good (as far as I can see). Personally if this Pokemon was available gen 4 i'd be running it on basically every one of my teams, but we'll just have to wait and see where Espeon fits into the Gen 5 metagame. A possible set could be:

Espeon @ Leftovers
Timid - Magic Mirror
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Psycho Shock / Psychic
- Signal Beam (Sazandora [Dark/Dragon] will actually eat you otherwise)
- HP Fire / Baton Pass (escape Pursuit, scout, pass boosts)

This and combinations of it will be one of the first Pokemon I'll be trying out once a sim comes out.
 
?

wait, so just so ive got this correct, Magic Mirror Ability works like a permanent Magic Coat? if so, that would mean that Magic Coat can reflect stealth rocks and hazards back at the opponent now...

as far as ive understood, Magic Coat was never able to reflect hazards. maybe that was only in Gen IV or maybe ive been reading it wrong all this time, but serebii and here on smogon both have Magic coat as not being able to reflect hazards back (or at least they dont mention it in their in-depth move descriptions). maybe the Gen V version of the move was boosted as well?

can somebody test Magic Coat in Black/White to see if it reflects hazards. because if it does, it is a safe bet to say that Espeon will be able to do it with its new ability. but for now i think this still needs more confirmation...
 
PJ_Graphix said:
wait, so just so ive got this correct, Magic Mirror Ability works like a permanent Magic Coat? if so, that would mean that Magic Coat can reflect stealth rocks and hazards back at the opponent now...

as far as ive understood, Magic Coat was never able to reflect hazards. maybe that was only in Gen IV or maybe ive been reading it wrong all this time, but serebii and here on smogon both have Magic coat as not being able to reflect hazards back (or at least they dont mention it in their in-depth move descriptions). maybe the Gen V version of the move was boosted as well?

can somebody test Magic Coat in Black/White to see if it reflects hazards. because if it does, it is a safe bet to say that Espeon will be able to do it with its new ability. but for now i think this still needs more confirmation...
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You (and everyone else) should be paying more attention to the move changes in the stickied research thread.
 
PJ_Graphix said:
wait, so just so ive got this correct, Magic Mirror Ability works like a permanent Magic Coat? if so, that would mean that Magic Coat can reflect stealth rocks and hazards back at the opponent now...

as far as ive understood, Magic Coat was never able to reflect hazards. maybe that was only in Gen IV or maybe ive been reading it wrong all this time, but serebii and here on smogon both have Magic coat as not being able to reflect hazards back (or at least they dont mention it in their in-depth move descriptions). maybe the Gen V version of the move was boosted as well?

can somebody test Magic Coat in Black/White to see if it reflects hazards. because if it does, it is a safe bet to say that Espeon will be able to do it with its new ability. but for now i think this still needs more confirmation...
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Welcome to "Uncharted Territory", we have a research thread at the top. >__>

EDIT: ninja'd, even if the time looks kinda strange to me. Smogon REALLY loads slowly these days...
 
Legacy Raider said:
Magic Mirror is an incredible ability and I think Espeon is going to be huge. There isn't a question of a doubt about Alakazam being outclassed now - this ability is just that good (as far as I can see). Personally if this Pokemon was available gen 4 i'd be running it on basically every one of my teams, but we'll just have to wait and see where Espeon fits into the Gen 5 metagame. A possible set could be:

Espeon @ Leftovers
Timid - Magic Mirror
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Calm Mind
- Psycho Shock / Psychic
- Signal Beam (Sazandora [Dark/Dragon] will actually eat you otherwise)
- HP Fire / Baton Pass (escape Pursuit, scout, pass boosts)

This and combinations of it will be one of the first Pokemon I'll be trying out once a sim comes out.
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I don't think you can use Signal Beam with a Magic Mirror Espeon....Signal Beam isn't available in fifth gen, which really disappoints me. I loved using it on Espeon.
 
Yuuki said:
I don't think you can use Signal Beam with a Magic Mirror Espeon....Signal Beam isn't available in fifth gen, which really disappoints me. I loved using it on Espeon.
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That pretty much means Espeon has to run Hidden Power just to deal with Sazandora...
 
Honestly, worrying about movesets isn't even that important. You can teach this thing tackle/flail/cut/flash, and it would still be a viable addition to most teams.

For the most part, I think the old sets that are already listed for Espeon apply very well. I figure since her new ability lets her become a godly supporter by simply existing, using wish or dual screens (or both) would be a good idea. Her attacking movepool is actually somehow worse this gen with the loss of signal beam, so limiting her to 1 or 2 attacks, then focusing on support moves seems to be the most practical application of her talents.
 
Espeon will most likely get bumped up to some type of lead to prevent stealth rock and then set up a cm baton pass or something of its own
 
Well the thing about non friend code wifi battles... Your opponent can see your pokemon... So if you're battling that way it's definate they will know you're running espeon... Not saying this cannot be worked around but it can cause some issue wouldn't it? But then again there IS Zoroark... Using it right can trick your opponent badly so long as you're careful on it's moves... I think people are going to be swapping Zoroark's around movepool ALOT.
 
It's a shame that Espeon has to trade in her Trick for Magic Mirror, especially considering Tricking 2 Choice Items doesn't lock the user into Trick anymore. Though I suppose Trick Lead Espeon would be good for bluffing Magic Mirror.

With Magic Mirror, even Yawn phasing would be fairly solid way of scouting teams or wasting opponent's berries. Since you don't run the risk of having you Synchronize ability used against you.

I think I might keep running Trick Lead Espy like I always have over Magic Mirror. The power of Modest Espy with sacrificing speed, is too temping. Especially with Pokemon like Erufuun and Agirudaa around.
 
Espeon would be a complete OU or possibly even Uber beast if not for one fact- you can see your foes team before you start. This means they will be much more careful will setting up SR but hey, that's easier for you to keep it away. Amazing ability abuse vs. Paranoia abuse.
 
Quick question, does any one know what would happen if Magic Mirror Xatu or Trace Magic Mirror Gardevoir used a status move on Magic Mirror Espeon? Or what if, hypothetically speaking, Espeon uses something like Swagger when the other pokemon uses Magic Coat?

I'm guessing that only one reflection would happen (so the other pokemon would get statused and Espeon would get swaggered)?

I looked in the Magic Mirror thread and someone asked that there too, but I didn't see a response
 
are female espeon released on dreamworld? becuase i want to know if Assit Power+Magic Mirror it's a legal moveset...

oh, and signal beam it's also a 4th gen move tutor. so it's also illegal with magic mirror
 
Has anyone tried leading with something that is incapable of stopping common leads from setting up, and then switching Espeon into them setting up rocks?

I've had some success with doing that, but I found that Espeon isn't strong enough to defeat said common suicide leads.
Against Aerodactyl I found that it can survive a rock slide, break its sash, and then you can switch in a priority user that survives a single attack to finish it off. I imagine the same can be done against Azelf leads although I haven't come across any. You'd have to run shadow ball, I think, though. Especially when using something that uses Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave.

The main point behind is to actually steal your opponent's entry hazards as opposed to dedicating one of your own pokemon to setting them up.
 
Because of the way the DW works, movesets are all basically tentative. Ponyta gets Heat Wave, a gen IV tutor only move, in the DW, depending on the score you get in the mini game you play with it. A male DW ponyta with Heat Wave can breed with a female DW flame-body ponyta, resulting in about half of babies having the Flame Body ability and all of them having Heat Wave. So, I wouldn't completely rule out Signal Beam/Trick Magic Mirror Espeon, but I also wouldn't plan on it. It could even end up with something ridiculous like Butterfly Dance lol.

Anyways, I gotta say I feel like lead Espeon is a bad idea because it will just get wrecked by most other leads. Specs is a pretty good idea as Magic Mirror is really best when you're switching in and out, because then your opponent has no idea when their status/hazard is going to get reflected on them. Just one proper Magic Mirror switch-in reflection could really get into your opponent's head, perhaps even forcing them to play a more aggressive style.
 
This thing is no joke. I think people might have the mindset that magic mirror is too good to be true, but it isn't. It works as advertised and it's just as good as it sounds. In fact, it's literally on half the teams on I see.

It's a perfect erufuun counter. Most are running u-turn to deal with it.

Nobody leads with it though. You find out quickly that leading with it is a bad idea. It's better to switch into rocks and stuff, because everyone knows what espy is about now and they'll just attack it.

Another interesting note is that I have found psycho shock ridiculously effective. It feels much stronger in general, and it is extremely satisfying to 2hko blissey.
 
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