u only get 1 turn so how would u get sun up before that
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Evil Incineroar Has to Die
- Thread starter Adeleine
- Start date
i'm slow
I just realized you can Tera + Z-Move so here’s Illumise’s 73 SpA self here just to show anyone can make agent as long as they have tinted lens:
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Tera Bug Illumise Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Fire Incineroar: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Base move is Bug Buzz)
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Tera Bug Illumise Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Fire Incineroar: 148-176 (37.5 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
(Base move is Bug Buzz)
Few debunks.
As a more general note, due to the way that stat rounding works, there are certain times that a White Herb will provide more damage than a Choice Band on a physical attacker. This will only result in a single point more effective Attack, but worth keeping in mind. There is no scenario where running a Choice Band will outdamage running White Herb if your Pokemon is vulnerable to Intimidate as far as I understand.
244+ Atk Tera Rock Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Incineroar: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 244+ Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Incineroar: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
A quick example to illustrate, despite the purposefully lowered EVs.
Setting aside Metronome calling a specific move (which is way more unlikely than the already dishonorable 10 hit population bomb), Evil Incineroar certainly wouldn't enter the fight in a disadvantageous state like being stat boosted/dropped.
Stakeout does not activate on initial entry to battle, unlike Intimidate's interaction with Lash Out for some reason. Mabosstiff's got Guard Dog so it can use a stronger move thankfully, but it doesn't get the Stakeout modifier. For Stakeout to activate, Evil Incineroar would have to be switching in, which isn't possible in a 1v1.
Unfortunately Evil Incineroar forcefeeds your Pokemon a Full Restore at the start of the battle, making Reversal strategies impossible. If Evil Incineroar did not, then Scrappy Endeavor at 1 HP would be the best non-OHKO strategy due to doing 91.67% to a Level 1 Incineroar.
As a more general note, due to the way that stat rounding works, there are certain times that a White Herb will provide more damage than a Choice Band on a physical attacker. This will only result in a single point more effective Attack, but worth keeping in mind. There is no scenario where running a Choice Band will outdamage running White Herb if your Pokemon is vulnerable to Intimidate as far as I understand.
244+ Atk Tera Rock Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Incineroar: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 244+ Atk Choice Band Tera Rock Rampardos Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Steel Incineroar: 164-194 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
A quick example to illustrate, despite the purposefully lowered EVs.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tera Fighting Sirfetch’d Meteor Assault vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fairy Incineroar: 213-251 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Strategy: Offering Evil Incineroar A Fat Blunt (He Is A Lightweight)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Good Guy Incineroar You're Not Yourself Lately, Try This Fat Blunt (800 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Dragon Evil Incineroar: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I will accept my Agent Ascendant status
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Fire Good Guy Incineroar You're Not Yourself Lately, Try This Fat Blunt (800 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Dragon Evil Incineroar: 398-468 (101 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I will accept my Agent Ascendant status
Ok there is this one tho, for the "high roll of 50%"
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fire Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar in Sun: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fire Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar in Sun: 170-201 (43.1 - 51%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
Incineroar uses the Utility Umbrella to nullify the power of the Sun.
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
EVIL INCINEROAR PULLED OUT HIS EVIL GUN OF EVIL (tm)!
Incineroar Evil Gun of Evil vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Bellibolt: Ev-il (Brainwashed%) -- guaranteed Evil
...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
EVIL INCINEROAR PULLED OUT HIS EVIL GUN OF EVIL (tm)!
Incineroar Evil Gun of Evil vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Bellibolt: Ev-il (Brainwashed%) -- guaranteed Evil
...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Oh god.
I'm wondrously impressed by your all's submissions, but I don't think I can keep up with confirming and editing in submissions - if you've earned your rank, you've earned your rank. If anyone wants to ask a Smogoff mod for ownership of the thread so they can do that stuff, you have my approval. I'll at least handle all outstanding policy questions.
Probably, but if there's any workaround you can find, that's all game (e.g. Thousand Arrows being Ground but hitting Flying).
You are not.
He indeed would not.
This is an excellent find – I formally award you Researcher.
Yes, this is legal.
My heartful thanks to all of you for your dedication to making the world a safer place, free from Evil Incineroar's dastardly wiles.
252+ SpA Turboblaze Tera Ice Kyurem-White Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Steel Incineroar: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Tera Bug Yanmega Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tera Steel Incineroar: 200-236 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Over 50%, Elite Yanmega
Over 50%, Elite Yanmega
as i said before i'm fairly sure a "legit" OHKO range is impossible. kyogre and glalie can manage kills with crits (kyogre needs a roll, glalie always does), but without some serious rule-bendy shenanigans then a no-crit kill isn't happening.
a non-crit kill would require the following:
higher BP moves lower the stat requirement, but not a tremendous amount; 5 extra BP will buy you about 7 BST needed. in addition, due to the position in the damage formula, tinted lens will offer marginally higher damage than alternatives like water bubble or huge power (doubling the end damage rather than BP / attack modifier respectively, the latter two being in the division section of the damage formula). gen 8/7 not having tera opens up a few, but surprisingly not many, windows (ursh-r, both ogres, unnerve crit ttar are the only ones that i know will instakill; chople and no tera means scrappys like sirfetch'd still miss out).
a non-crit kill would require the following:
- choice item
- a damage-doubling ability (unless you are using explosion or have a 150BP move and base 240+ in your attacking stat)
- base stat above 160 (ideally)
- a 150+ BP move
V-create 
Water Spout
Explosion 
Refrigerate Explosion
Gigaton Hammer
Water Spout
Refrigerate Explosion
Gigaton Hammer
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for explosion it just tera ghostsas i said before i'm fairly sure a "legit" OHKO range is impossible. kyogre and glalie can manage kills with crits (kyogre needs a roll, glalie always does), but without some serious rule-bendy shenanigans then a no-crit kill isn't happening.
a non-crit kill ohko would require the following:
- choice item
- a damage-doubling ability (unless you are using explosion or have a 150BP move and base 240+ in your attacking stat)
- base stat above 160 (ideally)
- a 150+ BP move
higher BP moves lower the stat requirement, but not a tremendous amount; 5 extra BP will buy you about 7 BST needed. in addition, due to the position in the damage formula, tinted lens will offer marginally higher damage than alternatives like water bubble or huge power (doubling the end damage rather than BP / attack modifier respectively, the latter two being in the division section of the damage formula). gen 8/7 not having tera opens up a few, but surprisingly not many, windows (ursh-r, both ogres, unnerve crit ttar are the only ones that i know will instakill; chople and no tera means scrappys like sirfetch'd still miss out).V-create
Water Spout
Explosion
Gigaton Hammer
all except kyurem are scrappy, kyurem is refrigerate
lets allow cfzsas i said before i'm fairly sure a "legit" OHKO range is impossible. kyogre and glalie can manage kills with crits (kyogre needs a roll, glalie always does), but without some serious rule-bendy shenanigans then a no-crit kill isn't happening.
a non-crit kill ohko would require the following:
- choice item
- a damage-doubling ability (unless you are using explosion or have a 150BP move and base 240+ in your attacking stat)
- base stat above 160 (ideally)
- a 150+ BP move
higher BP moves lower the stat requirement, but not a tremendous amount; 5 extra BP will buy you about 7 BST needed. in addition, due to the position in the damage formula, tinted lens will offer marginally higher damage than alternatives like water bubble or huge power (doubling the end damage rather than BP / attack modifier respectively, the latter two being in the division section of the damage formula). gen 8/7 not having tera opens up a few, but surprisingly not many, windows (ursh-r, both ogres, unnerve crit ttar are the only ones that i know will instakill; chople and no tera means scrappys like sirfetch'd still miss out).V-create
Water Spout
Explosion
Gigaton Hammer
This set doesn't hit any new or interesting damage numbers, but it is the only set I could find that can make an attempt to outplay evil Incineroar through the means of scouting abilities which calls into question what exactly Incineroar is doing to predict your move.
Genesect is able to make use of Download to identify which stat Incineroar has more investment in and gain the corresponding boost. If Incineroar predicting your set is interpreted as him outplaying you by knowing what move you intend on clicking and loading the appropriate set, it is impossible for Incineroar to predict you if your decision is influenced by what happens between when he locks himself in to the battle and when you click your move (e.g. the Download activation).
If Incineroar wishes to minimize damage, he would run a set with the defensive spread of 252/172/84+ maximising his defense while causing Genesect to gain an attack boost and therefore click Z-Iron Head.
252+ Atk Tera Steel Genesect Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Tera Fire Incineroar: 165-195 (41.8 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Should Incineroar run any other spread, Genesect would be able to deal more damage with Z-Iron Head (for instance sets with more investment in the defenses and less in HP)
252+ Atk Tera Steel Genesect Corkscrew Crash (160 BP) vs. 108 HP / 252 Def Tera Fire Incineroar: 153-181 (42.7 - 50.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO
Or should Incineroar make the mistake of running a spread with special defense equal or lower than defense, he would grant Genesect a special attack boost allowing the more powerful Z-Steel Beam to deal more damage.
So my question is, does Incineroar fall victim to this trap, or does his power exceed tricks like this and he is able to force a specific download boost only to transform into a set with 252/252+ EVs after the move was selected
---
On a sidenote Solg does more damage with Searing Sunraze Smash than it does with Tera Stellar Tera Blast which is currently listed in the hall of fame.
252+ Atk Tera Steel Solgaleo Searing Sunraze Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Fire Incineroar: 192-227 (48.7 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
Interesting idea! Your conceptualization is correct – Evil Incineroar cannot change his set details in the middle of the battle, so he does fall victim to this trap. Well done!
I'm making a formal request for a Less Evil Incineroar category, on the notion that on good days, Evil Incineroar may decide to Terastilize into a resist rather than an immunity if applicable. Less Evil Incineroar would still not allow Electric-Types, to the sadness of any Electro Ball Pokemon candidate.
This would be another category below the others, noting its technical illegitimacy, mainly to honor the poor Agents who would make it, if only Evil Incineroar have the littlest more empathy in his heart.
I understand if this is not acceptable; by Arceus' will may Evil Incineroar finally perish.
This would be another category below the others, noting its technical illegitimacy, mainly to honor the poor Agents who would make it, if only Evil Incineroar have the littlest more empathy in his heart.
I understand if this is not acceptable; by Arceus' will may Evil Incineroar finally perish.
wait if you attack with a type that has an immunity does incineroar tera into that immunity by default or will it instead tera into a type that just resists your attacking type in question
If I recall correctly evil incineroar will prioritize turning into a type immune to the attacking type of applicable (i.e tera ground for electric moves, tera fairy for dragon moves, etc). The only exceptions would be normal and fighting type moves coming from a mon with scrappy, in which case evil incineroar would instead opt for the tera that just resists the type (i.e if they sense a scrappy enhanced fighting move they'll use tera bug instead of tera ghost)
We've had a few strategies that could have OHKO'd Evil Incineroar, if only they were blessed with a full-odds critical hit. But sadly, Evil Incineroar frowns on those weaklings who need to beg Lady Luck for mercy.
But what if there was a way to make such strategies work consistently? And it's even cart-legal, unlike those newfangled NatDex Tera Z-Moves!
In the early days of Scarlet and Violet, there was a period of time in which all online battles used the same RNG seed. This strategy may be RNG-based, but it is not luck-based because it will work every time! Alas, this has been fixed now, so we have no way to run tests and find strategies in this environment.
But what if I had evidence that using Metronome on the first turn with this random seed always results in Gigaton Hammer, and that the move called by Metronome would always crit? Why then...
How do we know that this is what happens? It's simple!
In all seriousness, this was the strongest move I could find with unlimited RNG allowed, beating even Mega Glalie and Kyogre with guaranteed crits. Other strategies using unlimited RNG include Technician Breloom's Bullet Seed critting 5 times (which also OHKOs, except it's even less likely than the Metronome strat).
I also chose to use Metronome (instead of just guaranteed crit Mega Glalie/Kyogre) because the video shows that the first attack will never crit with that RNG seed (I think), but with Metronome we don't know since that move can potentially make multiple RNG rolls. So technically there's no evidence that this doesn't work! Too bad we can't test it anymore.
But what if there was a way to make such strategies work consistently? And it's even cart-legal, unlike those newfangled NatDex Tera Z-Moves!
In the early days of Scarlet and Violet, there was a period of time in which all online battles used the same RNG seed. This strategy may be RNG-based, but it is not luck-based because it will work every time! Alas, this has been fixed now, so we have no way to run tests and find strategies in this environment.
But what if I had evidence that using Metronome on the first turn with this random seed always results in Gigaton Hammer, and that the move called by Metronome would always crit? Why then...
252+ Atk Choice Band Steely Spirit Tera Steel Perrserker Gigaton Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Incineroar on a critical hit: 442-520 (112.1 - 131.9%) -- guaranteed OHKOHow do we know that this is what happens? It's simple!
In all seriousness, this was the strongest move I could find with unlimited RNG allowed, beating even Mega Glalie and Kyogre with guaranteed crits. Other strategies using unlimited RNG include Technician Breloom's Bullet Seed critting 5 times (which also OHKOs, except it's even less likely than the Metronome strat).
I also chose to use Metronome (instead of just guaranteed crit Mega Glalie/Kyogre) because the video shows that the first attack will never crit with that RNG seed (I think), but with Metronome we don't know since that move can potentially make multiple RNG rolls. So technically there's no evidence that this doesn't work! Too bad we can't test it anymore.
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