Eviolite

[Garganator]

What do we know about this little item ? Not many informations yet, however we know two things:

a) It boosts BOTH defenses on NFE type Pokemon
b) It's not one time use

In other words, pre-evolution stone is an item, which works like a free Cosmic Power (however we still don't know the exact number). Anyway, my guess is that this stone will boost defenses by 50%. There's one good reason for this - NFE Pokemon in general are weak, so maybe GameFreak wanted to show them some love by introducing this one little item for them. Well, at first it may be totally useless, especially in competitive way. Why would I bother with using Pokemon (even with this boost) which are most of time weaker versions of their fully evolved cousins ? Answer is quite simple - as you may find some interesting NFE Pokemon to use this one certain item in really good way. And also surprisingly in some cases they may be even superior. Ok, it's time to show some Pokemon, which may use this item in really good way.

#233 - Porygon2

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Stats
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Base Stat Total: 515
Base Stats: | 85 | 80 | 90 | 105 | 95 | 60 |

Probably my favorite example here. I explained it further in Porygon2 thread, so I won't make it long here. For first with x1,5 boost Porygon2 may handle most physical hits in game, while surviving almost every single non-fighting move (even when boosted) and retaliating with Ice Beam/Thunderbolt. Probably in new metagame, with all those Dragons and other, not less powerfull threats Porygon2 may find his one main niche - really good tank and thanks to Recover Porygon2 won't miss this Leftovers too much. Don't underestimate this guy as he may be this anti-metagame key for which many players look for. Some damage calculations with Max HP/Max Def Bold Porygon2.

SALAMENCE

POSITIVE nature 252 SpA Life Orb Draco Meteor vs 252 HP +1 SpD (thanks to Stone) Porygon2

54.01% --> 63.64%

POSITIVE nature Life Orb 252 Atk Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (with Stone) Bold Porygon2

39.57% --> 46.79%

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +1 Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold +1 Def (with Stone) Bold Porygon2

54.01% --> 63.64%

ONONOKUSU

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +1 Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold +1 Def (thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

62.57% --> 73.80%

Neutral Nature Life Orb 252 Atk +2 Dragon Claw vs 252 HP/252 Def Bold (thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

55.35% --> 65.24%

GROUDON

Positive Nature Life Orb 252 Atk Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Porygon2

36.10% --> 42.51%

RAYQUAZA

+2 Adamant Dragon Claw Life Orb Rayquaza vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

57.22% --> 67.65%

+1 Adamant Outrage Life Orb Rayquaza vs 252 HP/252 Def +1 Def (Thanks to Stone) Bold Porygon2

64.17% --> 75.67%

#113 - Chansey

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Stats
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Base Stat Total: 450
Base Stats: | 250 | 5 | 5 | 35 | 105 | 50 |

Chansey. The older sister of Chansey. Pokemon good in one, and only one thing. Of course I mean in special walling. In Generation 4 Chansey was used mainly as niche UU Special Wall on hardcore stall teams. And unfortunately there was a good reason for this - Chansey offenses are so pathetic, that player is forced only to use Seismic Toss as an offensive move or status just to even touch enemy Pokemon. In other words totally niche, however the best Pokemon at this job. Does Pre-Evolution Stone change anything here ? Well, honestly not much. However it boosts one important thing - it boosts her physical defense, probably the biggest weakness, while boosting Special Defense. Well, let's compare her to Blissey against some physical attacks. Let's assume in both cases Max HP/Max Def Bold EVs spreads. In other words as physically defensive spreads as possible.

Choice Band Adamant Crunch Tyranitar VS

Chansey = 41.05% --> 48.58%
Blissey = 55.88% --> 65.97%

First huge difference. Chansey with this EVs spread may be 2OHKOed only 6% of time with SR up. While Blissey doesn't stand a chance. However it doesn't end here.

Choice Band Adamant U-Turn Scizor VS

Chansey = 35.37% --> 41.76%
Blissey = 47.90% --> 56.44%

Another perfect example. Not that Chansey should stay in (SuperPower will hurt), however in some situations this may be quite crucial. Surprisingly, Chansey takes U-Turn as well as... Max HP/Max Def Swampert. Anyway, another proof on how it helps our poor Chansey.

But here we go. What king of difference it makes when taking special hits. And here it looks also interesting. It's best to show it on example.

Choice Specs Flash Fire Boosted Fire Blast Timid Heatran VS

Chansey = 40.06% --> 47.30%
Blissey = 47.48% --> 56.02%

Yep, here's the difference. However Blissey is saved by one little thing - Leftovers, which almost negates advantage which Chansey has here. Chansey has 30 SpD points LESS then Chansey, which is huge difference. If Blissey switches directly - it looses when compared to Chansey. However when Blissey switch in while not taking hit, she fares a bit better, as this little Leftovers helps in this case. And most important thing - Blissey may use special attacks, while Chansey means free boost for Ghost type Pokemon. But yeah, Chansey gains a huge boost with this Stone, which this proves. Anyway, Chansey surprisingly with this boost may be compared to Blissey. Heck, may be even better in some situations. But still - Chansey still struggle against strong physical attackers and unlike Blissey can't threat any switch-in with SE effective offensive attack, making her much less vulnerable against stat-up users. Just to end this - Chansey is another Pokemon, which gains second life as a NFE Pokemon and will surely find a place in some teams, even in higher tiers.

#207 - Gligar

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Stats
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Base Stat Total: 515
Base Stats: | 65 | 75 | 105 | 35 | 65 | 85 |

Gligar, pokemon with mediocre statistics around, however with great defensive typing. In UU it wasn't used much, however it provided unique niche in checking many offensive UU/NU Pokemon like Pinsir, Hitmonlee, non-Ice Punch Primeape or even tested right now Heracross (to some extent). Anyway, his main uses are checking and walling Fighting and Bug type attackers, which Gligar do quite well. However it's mainly outclassed by Gliscor, which of course is true. Gliscor has much higher defense, better attack and speed - really important statistics for physical walls. But Pre-Evolution Stone again helps here. Unlike mentioned two earlier Pokemon, Gligar doesn't have raw stats to really shine in higher tiers and will probably end in lower tiers. However, it may provide with unique niche if your team is in desperate need for it. For first Gliscor sets use right now (and I don't think this may change, but who knows ?) mostly Speed EVs to outspeed few certain threats, while I think Gligar should concentrate on abusing his new received bulk. Time to check few calculations. Let's go with Heracross, as both of those Pokemon do good job here, especially if Gliscor will be forced to run more Defensive EVs to counter some new physical behemots instead of speed.

+2 Flame Orb 252 Atk Jolly Facade Heracross VS

Gliscor = 77.68% --> 91.53%
Gligar = 61.98% --> 73.05%

In other words, +2 Flame Orb Facade can't OHKO Gligar, while there's 28% for OHKO when Max HP/Max Def Impish Gliscor try to do the same.

But someone may say - Heracross in this fast paced metagame ? Nope, I don't think it's the only niche where Gligar may try his luck in walling certain Pokemon. Let's go with Randorosu. 101 base speed, 125 base Atk and access to Swords Dance may make it one of the most dangerous sweepers in Gen 5. Well, this is also where difference in damage helps our litle Gligar.

+2 Life Orb 252 Atk Jolly Stone Edge Randorosu VS

Gliscor = 48.02% --> 56.78%
Gligar = 38.62% --> 45.51%

Just to make it short. Gliscor is 2OHKOed by Randorosu, while Gligar can't be 2OHKOed back. In other words Gligar may be able to run Toxic, Roost any damage back and let the Toxic + Life Orb recoils do the job. While Gliscor can't afford to try his luck with Toxic and must use Ice Fang, which may not knock out Rankurusu back.

However may Gligar use this additional bulk on special side ? Well, he surely can. And I think Gligar has higher advantage here even more.

0 SpA EVs Milotic Neutral Ice Beam VS

Gliscor = 98.31% --> 116.38%
Gligar = 77.84% --> 92.22%

100% OHKO with SR up (with Gliscor) against 20,5% with Gligar. I guess it's worth to invest a bit of SpD on Gligar just to secure survive. Anyway, it looks really good. Ok, time for something else.

Life Orb 252 SpA Roserade Neutral Leaf Storm VS

Gliscor = 103.39% --> 122.03%
Gligar = 81.74% --> 96.41%

Again massive difference. In other words if you want to use bulkier Flying/Earth Pokemon, then Gligar is good alternative. If you want to use something with good speed, solid attack and access to Poison heal, go with Gliscor, which is also more versitale.

Anyway, let's discuss and check potential of other potentially really interesting NFE Pokemon. If you want more calculations, just say against what and I'll add them when I can ;).

[I'll upload other good users of this item later (as it will take longer then I expected). I plan to add Dusclops, Scyther and Rhydon as fast as possible.]

UPDATE

Just tested the item.
For unevolved Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Munchlax, Gligar, Porygon), it boosts both defenses by 50%.
For middle-stage Pokémon (e.g. Porygon2, Dusclops, Chansey), it boosts them only by 30%.
For unevolved Pokémon that don't evolve (e.g. Heracross, Dunsparce, Suicune), it has no effect.

EDIT: It would be great for a few more people to test, though. I might be wrong with those numbers (I'm pretty certain, though).

EDIT: Well, for now thanks to Wichu we may assume that ALL NFE Pokemon have 50% boost to defenses. At least for now, more tests are always welcome.

 

[M BLADE]

Maybe also add Scyther (it's a NFE right?).
I know Scyther is a sweeper, but the defense boosts are meant for Baton Passing, or bulky SD too (i don't know if it gets Roost now though).

 

[Wanderer]

The defense boosts probably can't be passed, since item stat boosts don't count as regular stat boosts. Pretty impressive item if it's a 1.5x boost.

 

[kyu]

+2 Life Orb 252 Atk Jolly Stone Edge Rankurusu VS

Gliscor = 48.02% --> 56.78%
Gligar = 38.62% --> 45.51%

Just to make it short. Gliscor is 2OHKOed by Rankurusu, while Gligar can't be 2OHKOed back. In other words Gligar may be able to run Toxic, Roost any damage back and let the Toxic + Life Orb recoils do the job.

I'm not sure what you intended to say here, but I don't think you meant Rankurusu. Rankurusu is a Psychic-type with base 65 attack and Magic Guard that doesn't learn Stone Edge.

Edit: Sorry, posted after not refreshing the page for a couple minutes.

 

[IcyMan28]

Chansey vs. Blissey is an issue of physical defense vs. special defense. As noted by the OP, Leftovers almost completely nullifies the SpD boost that Chansey gets, making its advantage a mere 1%-2%.

Physically speaking, however, Blissey is far surpassed by Chansey despite Lefties.

 

[Garganator]

I think OP is confusing Rankurusu with Onokonusu.

Sry, I'm a bit tired -_-. I meant Randorosu, dumb mistake on my part. Fixed.

Maybe also add Scyther (it's a NFE right?).
I know Scyther is a sweeper, but the defense boosts are meant for Baton Passing, or bulky SD too (i don't know if it gets Roost now though).

Well, I think Scyther may run bulky sets right now, so why not. I'll add it as fast as I could.

Also added calculations from Porygon2 thread to this one.

 

[diinbong]

If I had to guess I would say it would be more like a traditional boosting item and boost by 10% or 20%... 50% is way too much. Even so, out of these three examples only Porygon2 is worthwhile considering (as you said yourself) Blissey gets Leftovers and so does Gliscor (or Toxic Orb or whatever).

 

[ΩDonut]

We still don't have confirmation that the Pre-Evolution Stone affects Pokemon that have been evolved once, even if they are NFE.

Let's not get too excited about something that is likely not to work the way we think. Let's steer the discussion towards first-stage Pokemon, those we know for sure are going to get the boost.

 

[Sir Azelf]

Wow if this is true, im so using p2. He looks to be pretty amazing now and doesn't actually suck at countering dragons.

For lols;

+4 Yache Chomp Outrage vs Max HP/ Max Def Bold p2 @ this item : 81% - 95.5%

Its also a 100% sure fire MixMence and DD Mence counter. Something we all thought we'd never see.

It also counters Ononokusu really well, living everything it can throw at p2 and delivering 80%~ back to it with 0 sp.att Ice Beam. =o That is really impressive considering no sp.att evs.

 

[M BLADE]

The defense boosts probably can't be passed, since item stat boosts don't count as regular stat boosts. Pretty impressive item if it's a 1.5x boost.

If you're talking about what i said, then let me say that what i really meant to say is that the defense boost helps Scyther to Baton Pass safely.

 

[Rykard]

this would also be beast on electabuzz. Compared to vire, the only thing he looses out in is HP and defense (not by much) and physical attack and with the Pre-evolution stone, the alleged boost would give him better defense than vire and even greater special defense since their special defense stats are the same. Plus, electabuzz is significantly faster (105 base making him faster than a lot of things that could earthquake him whereas vire isn't) and has static to make great use of the defense boost.

Plus, they both have the same special attack and a really good special movepool

 

[The King of Harts]

If P2 can use this, I definitely think Analyze is the way to go. The Prevo Stone lets you take more hits and Analyze lets you dish back more damage. It's a pretty good combo.

 

[Jiggy]

We do have Metal Powder for a 50% precedent, so that's what I've been hoping for. If it really is that high, then Perish Song Misdreavus can come back with a vengeance with Dusknoir defenses on her side and new Will-O-Wisp and Calm Mind toys that she didn't have in G/S/C.

If it works on partially-evolved Pokemon and gives even as low a boost as 20%, it should still have use since Dusclops will beat out Dusknoir for sets that don't use attacks and even with only that low boost Porygon2 would still be incredible.

The way to make sure it's worthless would be if it can only be used by first-stages of a three-stage Pokemon. Hope that's not the case.



Edit:

If it's a 50% boost:

Bold Misdreavus with 252/252/0 defenses: 324 HP, 360 Defense, 309 Special Defense
Calm Misdreavus with 252/252/0: 324 HP, 328 Defense, 339 Special Defense
Calm Misdreavus with 252/0/252: 324 HP, 234 Defense, 442 Special Defense

Those are just the extreme ends, so a balance can be found. For comparison, Dusknoir caps at 294 HP and 405/275 defenses in either direction, so this is definitely great.

 

[Joel]

No talk of the classics. :/

If it does work for NFE's, would someone care to do stat calcs for Rhydon and Rhyhorn in a Sandstorm (for use in both Little Cup and NU)?

Perhaps calcs on Onix in a Sandstorm, as well?

 

[Rykard]

it doesnt work on chansey or electabuzz then :(

stupid pre-evolutions after the original ones were make

Lileep and Lickitung would be pretty good candidates for this too

 

[Bologo]

Munchlax would be pretty deadly with this item if it raised both defenses by 50%, since he'd actually be able to run a Curselax set better than Snorlax. The leftovers loss wouldn't matter as much for Munchlax since Curselax always run Rest.

I haven't really worked out an EV spread for what the set would be, but I do know that 252 HP/252 Def Impish Munchlax actually takes physical hits better than a 252 HP/252 Def Impish Skarmory. In addition, if Munchlax decides to go the specially defensive route (though I'm not sure he needs to since he'd have 309 Special Defense even without investment), a 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax takes Special hits just 1% less than 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, which is pretty damn sweet.

Just some calcs to prove my point (assume Munchlax has +1 Def, and +1 SpD):

(note: I didn't choose the attacking pokemon for any reason other than that they were both neutral against Munchlax and his rival in question)

252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Azumarill Waterfall vs.

252 HP/252 Def Impish Munchlax = 40.5% - 47.7%
252 HP/252 Def Impish Skarmory = 40.4% - 47.9%

Meanwhile, 252 SpA Timid Choice Specs Starmie Hydro Pump vs.

252 HP/252 Def Impish Munchlax = 39.5% - 46.8%
252 HP/252 Def Impish Skarmory = 98.2% - 115.9%

While this obviously doesn't take into account Skarmory's resistances and reliable recovery, it still shows just how well Munchlax can take physical hits with the preevo stone. Now for Blissey:

252 SpA Timid Choice Specs Starmie Hydro Pump vs.

252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax = 27.8% - 32.9%
252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey = 26.5% - 31.2%

252 Atk Adamant Choice Band Azumarill Waterfall vs.

252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax = 67.9% - 80.4%
252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey = 60.6% - 71.4%

Basically, a 252 HP/252 SpD Careful Munchlax would take special hits almost identically to 252 HP/252 Def Bold Blissey, while taking physical hits a little worse, though that's still pretty impressive considering that Munchlax didn't even invest in his physical Defense.

Anyway, although I haven't really figured out what its Curselax set would be since it seems like the EVs would be kind of hard to get 'just right', I still think Munchlax would have a shitload of potential with the preevo stone.

 

[Thorhammer]

Last I checked, this stone only works on pokemon that haven't evolved at all yet.

Has this been confirmed?

If so, is there any news on whether or not it works with Pokemon that haven't evolved but also have already reached their highest stage of evolution? I assume no, but...

 

[Garganator]

Last I checked, this stone only works on pokemon that haven't evolved at all yet.

If that's true (it would be nice if could someone check it and mostly how high this boost is) we may forget about Porygon2, however Gligar is still viable. Something else worth mention. I guess this:

a) Snover
b) Hippotas

At last they would have usable bulk for summoning weather in lower tiers.

c) Munchlax

Probably with this the best Ghost and Fire types check in lower tiers.

d) Pineco

I know how bad this guy looks, however some people used him as a Spiker in NU. With this it has more then usable defenses.

e) Koffing

For lols. It's quite ironic that with this Koffing has better overall bulk then Weezing. However with this pathetic attacking stats not worth it anyway.

f) Tangela

Hmmm... I see some serious trouble for Tangrowth as they're pretty much similar, while Tangela is faster. IMO with this Tangela is better then Tangrowth (however movepool advantage is on Tangrowth).

I think that's all worth mention from first stage evolutions and which may work on 100 level competition.

 

[The Gardener]

What about Magneton? It's faster than Magnezone and only has ten less SpA.
With a 1.5 boost to its defences (assuming it is 50%) it gets 50/145/105 and a list of resistances as long as my arm. Not too shabby with a 120 special attack and stab thunderbolt.


Edit: Boo on it only boosting first stage pokemon. I guess Magnemite could find some use for it in LC 25/35/105/95/83/45 isn't bad. Not great either, but not bad.

 

[Thorhammer]

What about Magneton? It's faster than Magnezone and only has ten less SpA.
With a 1.5 boost to its defences (assuming it is 50%) it gets 50/145/105 and a list of resistances as long as my arm. Not too shabby with a 120 special attack and stab thunderbolt.


Edit: Boo on it only boosting first stage pokemon. I guess Magnemite could find some use for it in LC 25/35/105/95/83/45 isn't bad. Not great either, but not bad.

Boosts aren't calculated based on base stats.

 

[Sajak]

If only Eevee could make good use out of this... :(

Even with a 50% boost, it's still not looking all that great.

 

[backlot]

Has anybody confirmed that its a 50% boost yet?

Anyway, those Munchlax calcs are pretty cool. He'd be great on a Trick Room team with his incredibly low speed.

 

[Spenstar]

Am I the only one here thinking "Whyaut"? Wynaut would LOVE this item, not to mention the entire LC and MC tiers.

 

[GolemGuy]

I was secretly doing a bit of Shelgon theorymonning back in 4th gen, though I didn't really get anything. But maybe Shelgon could get somewhere now that we have this.

 

[Ryanide]

I think Trapinch would enjoy this item, even if it's still outclassed by dugtrio.