Explosion

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HART4FLOON said:
Are you serious? -____-

Explosion doesn't halve the defense of the opponent anymore so it no longer does the godly damage that a suicide bomber should do.
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it still got 100 more BP than Meteor Mash wich is Metagross most powerful attack. Just because it isnt godly damage anymore it is still extreme damage and going out with a bang is usually a better option than going out with less damage.

Its not anymore an option for walls like Forry, Nattorei and the likes and sadly it isnt even a serious option for Heatran anymore who would else benefit from the higher acc of magma storm for his heatrap set, but powerful sweepers like metagross still benefit from it as it will still OHKO plenty of things.
 
Even though I didn't use Explosion much (even on CB Gross I'd run MM/EQ/TP/BB mostly), but this sucks for many things like Heatran and Gengar. Though it doesn't mean it's a 'useless' move now. It still has 250 base power, and can be still used on Pokemon like Licki and CBGross.
 
Gamefreak, why must you insist on ruining the metagame?? Why?!?! On another note, swords dance usage was severely cut this generation. Last generation, they were handing that TM out like candy on Halloween, but this generation not nearly as many physical sweepers (pokemon with high base attack) who should have gotten it got this move.
 
lmitchell0012 said:
Gamefreak, why must you insist on ruining the metagame??
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They didn't ruin it. They gave us a new metagame. If absolutely nothing changed between Gen IV and Gen V then the metagame would go stale.

I don't see why people have automatically ruled Explosion as being terrible, it's still got a very high BP, highest in the game?
The point of Explosion isn't to lead with it right off the bat, it's to blow up your weakened pokemon that you know is going to die any way, and hopefully kill your opponent's pokemon at the same time. If it doesn't die, it'll still be severely crippled and able to be revenge killed by the next pokemon that switches in.

Explosion does less damage, but it is in no way less useful than before.
 
Why is everyone complaining about Blissey?

She can't do jackshit this generation. You won't be seeing much of her pink rear anyway.
 
Rackham said:
Even suicide leads could most likely do as much damage with another powerful STAB
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Name any other move that has 500 base power.

Stab head smash from aggron or relicanth has 225 power, not even half. Iron fist focus punch has 280 power, skill link STAB icicle spear has 187,5 power.

500 is alot
 
It halved the defense of the pokemon you used it on in 4th gen? hahaha, thanks for the heads up, I had no idea it did.

Anyway, ignoring that, 250 is not a low number(highest in the game i believe) and will still leave the oppsing teams pokemon severly crippled, making it practically useless and easily revenged, thereby basically taking out a keyplayer in the team. Is that a useless move?
 
A wall/special attacker exploding on another wall won't cripple it at all (mostly walls use explosion). It's also resisted alot. Before it did decent damage vs those who resisted it, now it does not.

And while it's still worth using at times at 250 bp, it's just not worth the moveslot.
 
lumpor said:
Name any other move that has 500 base power.

Stab head smash from aggron or relicanth has 225 power, not even half. Iron fist focus punch has 280 power, skill link STAB icicle spear has 187,5 power.

500 is alot
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It's 250 base power in this gen. That is a huge hit considering almost nothing in OU gets STAB on it, it doesn't hit any types for Super Effective damage, one type is immune to it, two types resist it, and it costs you a Pokemon to use. Explosion got nerfed in this gen, big time.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
It's 250 base power in this gen. That is a huge hit considering almost nothing in OU gets STAB on it, it doesn't hit any types for Super Effective damage, one type is immune to it, two types resist it, and it costs you a Pokemon to use. Explosion got nerfed in this gen, big time.
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That's a key point: it costs you a Pokemon to use Explosion.
It's a lot less viable when more things can survive it in return.
I think triple battles are the reason for the reduction in power.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
It's 250 base power in this gen. That is a huge hit considering almost nothing in OU gets STAB on it, it doesn't hit any types for Super Effective damage, one type is immune to it, two types resist it, and it costs you a Pokemon to use. Explosion got nerfed in this gen, big time.
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Yeah I know. I replied to someone who said that the nerf didn't matter because "explosion was never good anyway since those who use explosion could instead just use a stab move for roughly the same power" and I demonstrated how explosion had alot more power than any other stab move
 
Saint Ashes said:
They didn't ruin it. They gave us a new metagame. If absolutely nothing changed between Gen IV and Gen V then the metagame would go stale.

I don't see why people have automatically ruled Explosion as being terrible, it's still got a very high BP, highest in the game?
The point of Explosion isn't to lead with it right off the bat, it's to blow up your weakened pokemon that you know is going to die any way, and hopefully kill your opponent's pokemon at the same time. If it doesn't die, it'll still be severely crippled and able to be revenge killed by the next pokemon that switches in.

Explosion does less damage, but it is in no way less useful than before.
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I absolutely agree. This will make people think twice about having to switch in a revenge killer just to finish off a poke who went down to 25% from max HP. This is, in turn, probably going to increase Pursuit usage (and Band/Scarf Scizor usage as well).

Considering the other changes this generation brought related to Explosion usage (Rotom's type change being the biggest one), Game Freak made a smart move in getting rid of the Defense drop. I'll be honest and say that I'll miss its godly power, but it would've dominated the whole Gen V metagame too much.

"That's all I have to say about that."
 
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lumpor said:
Name any other move that has 500 base power.

Stab head smash from aggron or relicanth has 225 power, not even half. Iron fist focus punch has 280 power, skill link STAB icicle spear has 187,5 power.

500 is a lot
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yet surviving to damage another poke is not a lot?

The more you survive the more Pokemon you can possibly or defeat cripple that is the logic why Machamp leads are so popular.

take Azelf now he doesn't need to go boom too take some damage he has other options your making it seem the other options he had was inferior because they don't have 500 base power essentially unbalance move that the only flaw is the user commits suicide.

Flareon said:
Explosion just lost a whole lotta viability
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explosion is still viable as it is still the strongest move in the game enough said, Now you must actual have good attack power to inflict Damage,a explosion from a Metagross who by the way has outstanding physical attack can still OHKO chansey with pre evolution stone which have superior physical defense to blissey .


as people said before me suicide is not the only way to get last ditch damage especially when this gen released a similar move(desperation) and tons of other options.
 
I mean to say, It didn't get to use the move without the nerf. BM was saying "Stuff like Nattorei was so much better with this before the nerf." But it didn't exist before the nerf.
 
Corsola should be higher on that list of Strongest to Weakest users if packing Hustle, which is effectively a STAB boost with lower accuracy. I remember I once calculated the Hustle Explosion of Corsola, and it wasn't much weaker than Golems.

Also, since Explosion and Self-destruct are closer in power now (200 and 250 vs 400 and 500), shouldn't there be a list of good Self-destruct users like Snorlax, I mean 110 base Attack + STAB effectively makes it 300 base power, which is stronger than all of the non Lickilicky Explosions. That and possibly Mewtwo isn't so bad either, considering 110 Base Attack can leave a dent.

ACTUALLY: Is it worth it? Snorlax using 2 Returns actually does more than using Self-destruct... 153 x 2 = 306 > 300

Mewtwo is probably better using its signature new Psychic move which does Physical Damage to Blissey, and with 100 base Power + 50% from STAB at 150, using that move twice does more damage off of its 154 Special Attack Stat than 1 Self-destruct off of its 110 base Attack Stat.
 
hhjj said:
ACTUALLY: Is it worth it? Snorlax using 2 Returns actually does more than using Self-destruct... 153 x 2 = 306 > 300
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Is it really fair to compare it like that? In a Snorlax's life span it could get off a number of attacks that out number 300 in total. It's meant to be a last resort for a Pokemon that's probably about to die anyway.
 
Can somebody actually provide a list of competitive Pokemon that can use Explosion/Selfdestruct viably in Generation Five? I seriously doubt that Pokemon who used it in Generation Four to get rid of Blissey is going to use it now, so I fail to see the point in the move unless it's for a scouting purpose. Which is bad anyways considering Explosion has lower base Power and there is the existence of Volt Change and U-Turn. This turns things like Heatran and Azelf off, obviously.
 
I really don't understand why people are complaining that they can't kill Blissey with Explosion anymore. As if everyone who complains doesn't have another physical attacker on their team, and rely too much on Explosion.

Geez, Blissey still has the ugliest defense in the game, so anything physical can kill her in one or two hits. Use another move. Rework your teams. If this change hadn't occurred, Gen V would still be Explosion-ridden like IV, which is redundant and overused already.

I say it's a good chance for us to actually work on a better team instead of something that revolves around the use of Explosion as a last resort. God, Blissey is like, a bubble. It easily pops.
 
Blissey has much more to worry about this generation, the explosion nerf is really the only thing she gained. Between powerful new special attackers, versatile sweepers with crazy offensive stats, competition from Prevo Stone users, Psycho Shock/Sword of Mystery users, and the sheer power of physical attackers, she is more of a liability than ever.

I'm actually rather glad that Explosion has been nerfed. More capable attackers can still use it to effectively cripple a pokemon; ScarfChomp doesn't actually care if Swampert is weakened to EQ KO range or if it is killed, as it will win anyway. It isn't that nearly automatic win button it used to be, thankfully.
 
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