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Ferrothorn
- Thread starter Not Scicky
- Start date
If you are using ferrothorn on a stall team power whip is much better. The idea of stall is to slowly wear down opponents via switching onto hazards, status, and leech seed....etc. Gyro ball has too low pp to be effective on a full stall team. If it is part stall with maybe 2 sweepers then gyro ball will be fine.
Well honestly you have to consider what your using ferrothorn for, if your using it to beat off Rotom-W or other water types, if you need Ferrothorn to beat down dragons, your gonna need gyro-ball, its as simple as that, neither is innately better.
I've found that Power Whip and Gyro Ball are both so useful it seems a shame to not use one of them. It allows Ferrothorn to more effectively wall as it can threaten a wider range of foes.
Protect isn't really THAT useful IMO...it's nice to get a bit of residual damage/healing via leech seed, but dropping a coverage move just for that seems counterproductive.
As for better ev spreads...I don't know. I like the current spread, since it nicely balances his defenses, but you could easily tweak it to make it more offensive, or more oriented towards physical/special defense.
Protect isn't really THAT useful IMO...it's nice to get a bit of residual damage/healing via leech seed, but dropping a coverage move just for that seems counterproductive.
As for better ev spreads...I don't know. I like the current spread, since it nicely balances his defenses, but you could easily tweak it to make it more offensive, or more oriented towards physical/special defense.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
Depends. If you have Chansey/Blissey or Specially Defensive Jirachi on your rain stall already, run an EV spread of 248 HP / 80 Def / 180 SDef, Impish Nature. If you don't have one of those, run 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef, Careful Nature. Either way, your moveset should be Protect / Spikes / Leech Seed / Power Whip (Gyro Ball's PP is way too low + Power Whip lets you scare off bulky waters that could otherwise wall you easily).
To those who say Protect is useless on Ferrothorn, it's not. It prolongs Ferro's life, allowing it to Leech Seed stall things for extra damage on them and extra recovery for you. It also lets Ferrothorn scout out annoying stuff like Trick Rotom-W and Superpower Scizor, which also helps greatly against VoltTurn teams, since rain stall struggles with that playstyle often. I highly recommend Protect on any Ferrothorn, since the 4th moveslot is very subjective and Protect is so useful for a defensive Pokemon like Ferro in general.
After 2 years of BW, I finally faced a Curse ferro in the rain the other day. It caught me so off gaurd that it killed 3 pokemon and lost me the game. The thing can be nigh on impossible to take out if you aren't packing any boosting attackers.
In regards to EVs and movesets - not long ago someone posted a defensive set with bulldoze and gyro ball with the EVs in attack to kill zone. It seems in theory that would be a great set for ferro at the moment
edit: I also have almost always run Protect when I use Ferro for all the reasons which Lavos just listed.
In regards to EVs and movesets - not long ago someone posted a defensive set with bulldoze and gyro ball with the EVs in attack to kill zone. It seems in theory that would be a great set for ferro at the moment
edit: I also have almost always run Protect when I use Ferro for all the reasons which Lavos just listed.
Oh, I wasn't trying to say protect is useless...just that I prefer to have the extra attacking move.
I don't understand the purpose of Thunder Wave on ferrothorn. I commonly hear its for the salamence or the dragonite on the switch. but both are nearly ohko'd by gyroball on the switch after rocks.
The only pokemon I can think of that would switch in on ferrothorn and twave would be beneficial against it would be the SubCM Jirachi set or Reuniclus.
I don't think anyone has posted this set yet:
Ferrothorn@Rocky helmet
Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spe)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk.
-gyro ball
-Spikes/Power whip
-Rest
-Sleep talk
This thing had caused so many rage quits.
The idea is simple, beat down the opponent with iron barbs + rocky helmet (which deals 29% damage) or with gyro ball/power whip.
I use spikes, as it punishes spinners who take 29% damage if they try to spin on ferro, while abusing Sleep talk.
Rest + Sleep talk is where the fun comes.
When you are down to low health (usually after 4-5 hits), use rest and sleep talk for 2 turns, then rest again if your health is low or beat down the opponent.
This thing has helped me many times with stuff like gyarados, dragonite (fire punching this thing won't be easy) as well as special pokemons like jolteon or politoed.
Power whip can be used if you want that power against grass types.
This set might seem gimmick, but it has worked for me every time (except those times when i switch into unexpected fire blasts) and i use it on nearly all my ferrothorns.
But what do you guys think about this set?
Ferrothorn@Rocky helmet
Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spe)
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Atk.
-gyro ball
-Spikes/Power whip
-Rest
-Sleep talk
This thing had caused so many rage quits.
The idea is simple, beat down the opponent with iron barbs + rocky helmet (which deals 29% damage) or with gyro ball/power whip.
I use spikes, as it punishes spinners who take 29% damage if they try to spin on ferro, while abusing Sleep talk.
Rest + Sleep talk is where the fun comes.
When you are down to low health (usually after 4-5 hits), use rest and sleep talk for 2 turns, then rest again if your health is low or beat down the opponent.
This thing has helped me many times with stuff like gyarados, dragonite (fire punching this thing won't be easy) as well as special pokemons like jolteon or politoed.
Power whip can be used if you want that power against grass types.
This set might seem gimmick, but it has worked for me every time (except those times when i switch into unexpected fire blasts) and i use it on nearly all my ferrothorns.
But what do you guys think about this set?
Lavos
Banned deucer.
The above set has potential, but the problem lies in BW's god-awful Sleep mechanics, which reset your sleep turns every time you switch out. In my opinion you're only going to be able to get about one Rest off per game, because once the opponent figures out it's a RestTalk Ferrothorn they're going to send in their appropriate counter (Heatran, CB Scizor, etc.) and force you to get out of the way. Don't get me wrong, your set is a fantastic weapon against spinners and surely has caused many a ragequit, but I'd hesitate a little before slapping it onto any old team. I think it would work very well on Rain Stall, because Chansey/Blissey's Heal Bell could cure you of Sleep, allowing you to have some more control over what moves you're firing off while still preserving that ability to instantly recover to full health that Ferrothorn likes so much. Thanks for posting the set, I'll definitely give it a try!
If using with Cleric support, do you really need sleep talk?
Lavos
Banned deucer.
I would definitely still use it. Comes in handy in a pinch. Then you don't have to just switch out as soon as you've Rested, either. You can stay in and fish for attacks with Sleep Talk instead. On Rain Stall, Sleep Talk definitely has its merits, cleric or no cleric.
Yeah, the new sleep mechanics have been quite some problem sometimes, but i usually pull of 2-3 rests per game, as most opponents just switch in scizor or gliscor if they don't have heatran. This could work as a good heatran lure as well, but forretress with volt switch is probably better.
I often use this as my status absorber, as it takes scalds like a boss and paralysis just boosts gyro balls power. Spore can be annoying due to the random sleep turns, but if i sleep talk all the time then i will only miss one turn.
One problem i know of is that ferrothorn is slightly easy to set up on if you have fire punch or gyarados.
Most set up sweepers take huge damage from gyro ball (so many people has made that misstake by setting up cloyster on Ferro), but gyarados is resistant to it and can 2-3HKO with a +2 earthquake.
Dragonite is 2-3HKOed by gyro ball but can KO Ferro with fire punch he takes 29% damage by doing so, however).
I was thinking of adding leech seed instead of spikes, as it stops most set-up sweepers and often works like lefties, but if sleep talk selects leech seed, then i either waste a turn or surprise a switch-in (80% of the time it is going to be the former).
Anyway, thanks for the comments, and i am glad you liked it!
That's the exact moveset I run on my Rainstall, and since it has Chansey to wall special threats I'll try out the impish spread!
Ferrothorn (M) @ Shed Shell / Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Swords Dance
- Stealth Rock / Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
It must be used in trick room team, very good imo. Gyro ball and power whip are a strong stab, bulldoze is for magnezone if you don't want use shed shell or if you want have a stealth rock setter. Sword dance for boost the attack, obv...life orb is an another option maybe better of leftovers but I should try.
Lavos
Banned deucer.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me like a Curse + 3 attacks set would be much more effective, so then you don't have to rely on Trick Room to sweep. In fact, under Rain, Curse Ferro could be a serious problem for teams lacking a phazer or something to burn it with. Check this out:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 248 HP/60 +1 Def Ferrothorn: 83.76% - 99.15%
Damn. If anyone wants to try this monster out, the set is
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Curse
- Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs 248 HP/60 +1 Def Ferrothorn: 83.76% - 99.15%
Damn. If anyone wants to try this monster out, the set is
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 248 HP / 60 Def / 200 SDef
Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Curse
- Bulldoze
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
Leech Seed is usually better than Bulldoze, as it makes you almost unkillable, and also provides some utility when not using Curse. Bulldoze is nice for Heatran and Zone, but Zone will have his Subs broken at +1 from Power Whip, while he can only do 27.27 - 32.95% with HP Fire in rain (against 252 HP / 252 SpD + Ferro), meaning that with some decent prediction you can Leech Seed him, and after you do this, you will only be losing 15% health each turn, which means that you easily set-up and win. And you better have something else to deal with Heatran anyway, as you have a Rain team ffs.
So the Curse set, imo, should use 252/252+ SpD, and Leech Seed instead of Bulldoze (no Terrakion will ever switch into Ferro anyway).
So the Curse set, imo, should use 252/252+ SpD, and Leech Seed instead of Bulldoze (no Terrakion will ever switch into Ferro anyway).
Well .. i think this pokémon is very useful my metagame for this is :
Ferrothorn Careful Nature
Item: Rocky Helmet
252 HP/60 Defense/196 Special Defense
Moves:
Stealth Rock
Leech Seed
Thunder Wave
Power Whip/Gyro Ball (change 0 ivs for Speed and Sassy nature, but i prefer power whip)
Well is simple this pokemon i for traps, if the foe use a salamence or another pokemon with outrage for example, ferrothorn will rape with his autodefense so is a good counterattack for physical sweepers those haven't all his HP and using leech seed you can regenerate and be a thief of health ; thunder wave paralize the scarfers or can be for dragon dancers or some noobs those users of drizzle+swift swim still ; stealth rock, well is stealth rock; and power whip for swampert, GASTRODON, and exactly counterattack with a powerful STAB move that can fail, gyro ball is more rentable but well doesn't have the same coverage
Ferrothorn Careful Nature
Item: Rocky Helmet
252 HP/60 Defense/196 Special Defense
Moves:
Stealth Rock
Leech Seed
Thunder Wave
Power Whip/Gyro Ball (change 0 ivs for Speed and Sassy nature, but i prefer power whip)
Well is simple this pokemon i for traps, if the foe use a salamence or another pokemon with outrage for example, ferrothorn will rape with his autodefense so is a good counterattack for physical sweepers those haven't all his HP and using leech seed you can regenerate and be a thief of health ; thunder wave paralize the scarfers or can be for dragon dancers or some noobs those users of drizzle+swift swim still ; stealth rock, well is stealth rock; and power whip for swampert, GASTRODON, and exactly counterattack with a powerful STAB move that can fail, gyro ball is more rentable but well doesn't have the same coverage
Dark Fallen Angel
FIDDLESTICKS IS ALSO GOOD ON MID!
If you are running Thunder Wave, there is no point on using Gyro Ball. I prefer to use Power Whip since that's one of the reasons why Ferrothorn is a great check to most Water-types, and not using Power Whip makes much more difficult to defeat them, although Power Whip is resisted by so many things.Well .. i think this pokémon is very useful my metagame for this is :
Ferrothorn Careful Nature
Item: Rocky Helmet
252 HP/60 Defense/196 Special Defense
Moves:
Stealth Rock
Leech Seed
Thunder Wave
Power Whip/Gyro Ball (change 0 ivs for Speed and Sassy nature, but i prefer power whip)
Well is simple this pokemon i for traps, if the foe use a salamence or another pokemon with outrage for example, ferrothorn will rape with his autodefense so is a good counterattack for physical sweepers those haven't all his HP and using leech seed you can regenerate and be a thief of health ; thunder wave paralize the scarfers or can be for dragon dancers or some noobs those users of drizzle+swift swim still ; stealth rock, well is stealth rock; and power whip for swampert, GASTRODON, and exactly counterattack with a powerful STAB move that can fail, gyro ball is more rentable but well doesn't have the same coverage
This thing is such a pain to take out; capable walling anything that does not carry fire attacks (with a few exceptions - Kyurem's Blizzard, Tornadus' Hurricane etc). Most sets I see these days run Thunder Wave + Power Whip so that Ferrothorn does not become setup bait to boosting sweepers.
What a dick.
What a dick.
Because I love to necrobump, here goes nothing.
As mentioned by ScarfWynaut and Drunk Demon and September and July respectively, what EV spreads are you guys running on your Ferrothorns? Since the original analysis spread is to avoid Haxorus' Earthquake from 2HKOing, but it got Superpower now, said original is kinda superfluous. Any specific things you guys are hitting to block, or just sticking to the original one to kinda balance defenses in a sense? I personally have been doing the analysis one almost exactly (248 HP / 88+ Def / 172 SpD cause I hate even HP numbers) cause I can't think of a specific threat I need to have Ferro block.
EDIT: Well nevermind I guess...
As mentioned by ScarfWynaut and Drunk Demon and September and July respectively, what EV spreads are you guys running on your Ferrothorns? Since the original analysis spread is to avoid Haxorus' Earthquake from 2HKOing, but it got Superpower now, said original is kinda superfluous. Any specific things you guys are hitting to block, or just sticking to the original one to kinda balance defenses in a sense? I personally have been doing the analysis one almost exactly (248 HP / 88+ Def / 172 SpD cause I hate even HP numbers) cause I can't think of a specific threat I need to have Ferro block.
EDIT: Well nevermind I guess...
Taking a quick trip to the damage calculator, I suppose a spread of 252 HP / 28+ Def / 228 SpD could be helpful. It lets you avoid the 2HKO from Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump in rain, and avoid the 2HKO after SR if you're carrying Protect - whilst still keeping you from being OHKOd by its Secret Sword should you mess up horribly. I don't understand the Smogon thing about running 248 HP on things that don't need it - Ferrothorn is one of these things. It's (ever so slightly) compromising its overall bulk to do so, so I'd really recommend sticking with 252!
Because I love to theorymon, here goes nothing.
Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Powah Whip
I'd considered the effectiveness of this set a while ago, but hadn't got round to properly calcing it (or you know, using it) until recently. Unlike things like Occa Forretress or Wacan Gyarados, for whom the berries don't really serve any useful ends, Chople Ferrothorn is able to check a number of dangerous boosting fighting-type sweepers whose second STAB Ferrothorn conveniently resists, in addition to powerful attackers who would usually rely on fighting-type coverage to muscle past Ferrothorn.
With physical bulk potentially surpassing that of Skamory, fortuitous resistances, 120 BP and 150 BP STAB moves, an option for turn-by-turn recovery outside of Leftovers, and Iron Barbs to place extra damage on physical attackers, Ferrothorn seems like the perfect Chople berry user. Coming in on a stat-boosting move, ChopleThorn uses its bulk to survive an attack that would usually KO it, whilst retaliating with power and residual damage to KO, or cripple the sweeper. In this way it is able to check such threats as CM Keldeo, SD Terrakion, SD Breloom, the aforementioned SD Haxorus, NP Thundurus-T, Sheer Force Landorus-I, SD Toxicroak, and Jolly (lol) Lucario.
Here are the relevant calcs:
I think it can be seen that Ferrothorn becomes a lot more versatile, and more useful as a response to these offensive threats when holding a Chople Berry - either KOing them outright, or after the second round of Life Orb/Iron Barbs recoil, or taking them into easy KO range for a priority user such as Scizor or Breloom. It's worth a try!
Because I love to theorymon, here goes nothing.
Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Powah Whip
I'd considered the effectiveness of this set a while ago, but hadn't got round to properly calcing it (or you know, using it) until recently. Unlike things like Occa Forretress or Wacan Gyarados, for whom the berries don't really serve any useful ends, Chople Ferrothorn is able to check a number of dangerous boosting fighting-type sweepers whose second STAB Ferrothorn conveniently resists, in addition to powerful attackers who would usually rely on fighting-type coverage to muscle past Ferrothorn.
With physical bulk potentially surpassing that of Skamory, fortuitous resistances, 120 BP and 150 BP STAB moves, an option for turn-by-turn recovery outside of Leftovers, and Iron Barbs to place extra damage on physical attackers, Ferrothorn seems like the perfect Chople berry user. Coming in on a stat-boosting move, ChopleThorn uses its bulk to survive an attack that would usually KO it, whilst retaliating with power and residual damage to KO, or cripple the sweeper. In this way it is able to check such threats as CM Keldeo, SD Terrakion, SD Breloom, the aforementioned SD Haxorus, NP Thundurus-T, Sheer Force Landorus-I, SD Toxicroak, and Jolly (lol) Lucario.
Here are the relevant calcs:
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 172-203 (48.86 - 57.67%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 270-318 (83.59 - 98.45%) - plus Life Orb recoil
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 247-292 (70.17 - 82.95%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 498-588 (154.17 - 182.04%)
+2 252+ Atk Fighting Gem Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 205-243 (58.23 - 69.03%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (149 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 184-217 (70.22 - 82.82%) - plus Iron Barbs recoil
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Haxorus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 260-307 (73.86 - 87.21%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 36 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 252-297 (83.44 - 98.34%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 181-213 (51.42 - 60.51%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 168-198 (52.66 - 62.06%)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 234-277 (66.47 - 78.69%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 219-258 (71.1 - 83.76%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 289-341 (82.1 - 96.87%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 154-182 (54.6 - 64.53%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 298-351 (84.65 - 99.71%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 102-121 (34.11 - 40.46%) - plus Life Orb recoil
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 270-318 (83.59 - 98.45%) - plus Life Orb recoil
+2 252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 247-292 (70.17 - 82.95%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 498-588 (154.17 - 182.04%)
+2 252+ Atk Fighting Gem Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 205-243 (58.23 - 69.03%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (149 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 184-217 (70.22 - 82.82%) - plus Iron Barbs recoil
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Haxorus Superpower vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 260-307 (73.86 - 87.21%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 36 HP / 0 Def Haxorus: 252-297 (83.44 - 98.34%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 181-213 (51.42 - 60.51%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 168-198 (52.66 - 62.06%)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Cross Chop vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 234-277 (66.47 - 78.69%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 219-258 (71.1 - 83.76%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 289-341 (82.1 - 96.87%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 154-182 (54.6 - 64.53%) - plus Iron Barbs and Life Orb recoil
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Chople Berry Ferrothorn: 298-351 (84.65 - 99.71%)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-T: 102-121 (34.11 - 40.46%) - plus Life Orb recoil
I think it can be seen that Ferrothorn becomes a lot more versatile, and more useful as a response to these offensive threats when holding a Chople Berry - either KOing them outright, or after the second round of Life Orb/Iron Barbs recoil, or taking them into easy KO range for a priority user such as Scizor or Breloom. It's worth a try!