Flareon - A task that can't be done?

Resetx

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Flareon is a Pokemon that has a special place in my heart despite in inability to truly function well in any OU environment. Flareon happens to have an extremely high attack stat, although you can almost never make use of it because of his lack of speed. This can be made up for in at least few ways, although only two are truly notable.

First of all you can make an effort to baton pass an agility to him. The real problem with this is that despite the ease of doing this, flareon can't really stand an attack after that (Possibly if he resists it or its a non-super effective special attack). This can be remedied by using some sort of sleep move, or encore but this takes longer to set up and doesn't function very well. In this particular situation Flareon would have to use a ev spread that looks something like this:

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Flareon@Life Orb
Adamant
31/31/31/31/31/31 (Rather unrealistic)
134 hp/ 252 atk/ 124 spe (with an agility this will outspeed anything that isn't scarfed other than nijask)

Then comes the moveset which also is another reason why flareon is UU, There is practically nothing that it can use to abuse its extremely high attack. It's best two attacks being return and fire fang. Bite can cover other typing, Quick attack/Rock Smash/Iron tail/ Giga impact can go in the last slot but quick attack is probably your best bet if you can't pull off the agility.


The second option for trying to increase flareons usefulness in the metagame would be a choice scarf, The moveset would look pretty much the same but the EV's would have to be max in speed to pull it off not to mention the need for a +Spe nature.


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Flareon@Choice Scarf
Jolly
6 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 speed

Return
Fire Fang
Iron Tail
Bite

No need for quick attack in this set as you should outspeed most non-scarfed opponents anyways.


Anyways, thoughts?

tl;dr

Flareon can succesfully take a pass from an agility and fair pretty well, or maxamize its speed with a choice scarf.
 
Well anyone who simply looks at its moveset knows why it isn't used too often.

Until it gets Flare Blitz or at least a few other elemental fang attacks, it wont be seeing the light of day.
 
Isn't there a better physical fire type Pokemon that also happens to look like a dog? There's a reason he is UU. He can't ever work in the higher tiers unless he gets better STAB and a more diverse move pool. If you even have to contemplate for your final move slot between Giga Impact and Iron Tail, that's when you know your choices are limited.
 
Caelum said:
Isn't there a better physical fire type Pokemon that also happens to look like a dog?
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Yes: Arcanine. And it's not used that often either, even though its movepool, its stats and its ability are much better.

So Flareon is doomed.
 
Hell yeah, I feel the same way! A few things, though...

I don't even know if the Flame Orber will work; I've seen a person say it doesn't, but I haven't tested. If it does, it's a true shame it can't burn itself to take advantage of Facade as well. Although in case you get poisoned or whatever it's still a pretty decent option.

Trick Room support could be worth consideration, I think.
 
Oh, that's right. Anyway it'd be a pretty nice surprise for any Trickers still out there, most hopefully after they spit out some Tspikes first. If not there's still Guts possessors.

I know there was something said about the item, and I'm sure this was it. So I'm pretty positive that it wouldn't work.

But still, Facade is definitely an attractive option for Flareon (it beats out both Return and a SE Fire Fang), and it seems like it'd be easy enough to get it paralyzed or poisoned.
 
X-Act said:
Yes: Arcanine. And it's not used that often either, even though its movepool, its stats and its ability are much better.

So Flareon is doomed.
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It seems so strange to me, it's almost like Gamefreak took Flareon and said lets make him a downgraded version of Arcanine. Instead of Extreme Speed, we'll give him Quick Attack. Instead of Flare Blitz, ah, Fire Fang will do. Arcanine gets Crunch? Better give Flareon Bite. It seems to me their move pools almost correspond to one another, except one got the short end of the stick in almost every way.
 
doppio said:
Hell yeah, I feel the same way! A few things, though...

I don't even know if the Flame Orber will work; I've seen a person say it doesn't, but I haven't tested. If it does, it's a true shame it can't burn itself to take advantage of Facade as well. Although in case you get poisoned or whatever it's still a pretty decent option.

Trick Room support could be worth consideration, I think.
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There IS Toxic Orb you realize?

Though, if you want to use a FacadeOrber, you are better off with Swellow or Heracross. :\

Flareon is just outclassed in EVERYTHING. GameFreak really really hates the Fire-type Eevee. Hopefully next gen he will get some kinda boost.
 
For everyone's reference, here's the complete list of moves that Flareon learns that Arcanine doesn't.

Tackle
Tail Whip
Sand-Attack
Growl
Quick Attack
Baton Pass
Last Resort
Trump Card
Smog
Scary Face

Charm (Arcanine gets via XD)
Flail
Curse
Tickle
Wish
Yawn
Fake Tears
Covet

Rain Dance
Shadow Ball

Mud-Slap

Tackle, Tail Whip, Sand-Attack, Mud-Slap and Growl are all next to worthless. Quick Attack is outclassed by ExtremeSpeed. Flareon doesn't get anything noteworthy to Baton Pass. It isn't bulky enough to use Trump Card or pass Wishes. Scary Face is mediocre at best. It's too slow to sweep with Flail. Rain Dance is counter-productive. The list goes on.

I'm a person who always tries to make the most out of every Pokémon. I carefully analyze their movepools, searching for unique combos. I'd like to believe that every fully evolved Pokémon has a niche and that no Pokémon is strictly worse than any other.

Flareon just sucks. Even if it were to learn Flare Blitz, Arcanine still does it better with its higher HP to absorb the recoil. At level 57, when other evolutions of Eevee are learning moves like Mean Look and Mirror Coat, Flareon learns Smog. Smog! For those of us that don't have Smog's effect memorized, it has 20 base power, 70% accuracy, and a 40% chance to cause normal poison if it hits. That right there is GameFreak flipping Flareon the bird.

It's a damn shame, because I like Flareon. It's always been my favorite Eeveelution. I have no illusions about its lack of utility, though. My favorite set for it is Overheat and Last Resort, and even that set is terrible.
 
Flareon does have a few things going for it, but the sets up there are just plain terrible. Return/Fire Fang/Iron Tail/Bite? Ouch! People often get distracted by his Attack and start going for Adamant 252 sets, unaware that they're gonna be doing pitiful damage.

I guess I'd do something like...

Flareon @ Leftovers
Calm nature
252 HP / 82 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-Wisp
- HP Ground.

Now you've probably got the best counter to Ninetales as he immunes Flamethrower and takes pitiful damage from Energy Ball even after several Nasty Plots. HP Ground deals up to 44%.

Secondly, you've got a perfect switch into Sunnybeamers that occassionally see use in UU as Nasty Plot Dark Pulse from Shiftry doesn't even 2HKO.

Will-o-Wisp cripples the physical attackers that will be perpetually throwing themselves at Flareon, Wish supports Flareon and the rest of the team and Flamethrower deals consistent damage off Flareon's decent Special Attack...sure, it's not a fantastic set and I've never used it before, but it seems to have some potential and could certainly fill a niche in a UU squad.
 
Flareon needs to have infernape movepool just to start looking good but in the end it just got screwed by a bad (in todays metagame) typing bad base stat distributation and a bad movepool hell flareon would improve just by getting a normal secondary typing at least then it could use 130 base attack returns
 
Lee said:
Flareon does have a few things going for it, but the sets up there are just plain terrible. Return/Fire Fang/Iron Tail/Bite? Ouch! People often get distracted by his Attack and start going for Adamant 252 sets, unaware that they're gonna be doing pitiful damage.

I guess I'd do something like...

Flareon @ Leftovers
Calm nature
252 HP / 82 SpA / 176 SpD
- Wish
- Flamethrower
- Will-o-Wisp
- HP Ground.

Now you've probably got the best counter to Ninetales as he immunes Flamethrower and takes pitiful damage from Energy Ball even after several Nasty Plots. HP Ground deals up to 44%.

Secondly, you've got a perfect switch into Sunnybeamers that occassionally see use in UU as Nasty Plot Dark Pulse from Shiftry doesn't even 2HKO.

Will-o-Wisp cripples the physical attackers that will be perpetually throwing themselves at Flareon, Wish supports Flareon and the rest of the team and Flamethrower deals consistent damage off Flareon's decent Special Attack...sure, it's not a fantastic set and I've never used it before, but it seems to have some potential and could certainly fill a niche in a UU squad.
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I've been trying a similar set, which works ok. Wish/Toxic/Protect/Flamethrower (look familiar?). I tried it with WoW over Protect too, which also works decently. With maxed HP and Special Defense it handles weak Surfs quite easily and makes a decent staller/supporter. I've used both Choice sets, and they're really quite poor. He's too slow and his movepool is way too limited to make any kind of impact as an all out attacker. You really are better off trying to use his support options, otherwise he is just a crappy version of Rapidash or Ninetales.
 
However, Ninetales could still sleep Flareon. Too bad it can't fit Rest-Talk in there without losing much needed verstatlity, as that'd really help.

For me, I'm gonna try to use this set:

"Sinking Ship" @ Leftovers
Quiet nature
196 HP / 96 ATK / 16 DEF / 202 SAT
- Fake Tears
- Flamethrower
- HP Ground
- Facade

I'm forgoing Wish, because I want to have someone else wish. However I may stick it over Fake Tears and end up with two wishers.

Wishy said:
There IS Toxic Orb you realize?

Though, if you want to use a FacadeOrber, you are better off with Swellow or Heracross. :\

Flareon is just outclassed in EVERYTHING. GameFreak really really hates the Fire-type Eevee. Hopefully next gen he will get some kinda boost.
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The point of this would be...? It's pretty slow, so it'll be costing Flareon some extra hit points (but Wish could keep it afloat, either its own or a teamate's). I'm thinking it would better to get Flareon paralyzed, as it'll still get the usual recovery and the drop in speed will not matter so much. (And it could play even better with Trick Room support, although you are relying on your opponent creating the opportunity).

If you want to know what I think, it should've gotten a different ability as well because Flash Fire doesn't suit it very well IMO.
 
Flareon @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 SDef/4 Def
Careful Nature
Trait: Flash Fire

- Curse
- Wish
- Fire Fang
- Baton Pass

Flareon's not that bad of a Curser, especially since he can at least hurt things, unlike Umbreon. Fire Fang is the only attack there since this guy can Baton Pass those boosts away if he gets in any sort of trouble, also passes Wishes nicely. It works kinda like EspyJump, but it's Flareon, and it has a much weaker STAB, but hey, at least it's got an immunity and 5 resistances! That plus the ass-load of Special Defense will definitely help this guy take punches in bunches to get those Curses off.
 
Back in GSC it could learn Zap Cannon via TM. If it still learned that, it might make an OK addition to a Gravity team. I'm usually not one for the 'what if X learned Y' stuff, but it could do with some Electric-type moves in general. Flareon's got enough fur for it to be plausible and it would certainly set it apart from most other Fire-types. Sort of a reverse Manectric, if you will.
 
I made a fairly long post on this sort of thing in the past. If you're going to use Flareon, don't use it as a worse Arcanine, because then you might as well... Use Arcanine. You have to take advantage of what it does better. Baton Pass, Wish, Fake Tears, and Yawn are the only useful advantages, and those aren't that good.

/edit: Found it: What is the best set for a Pokemon?
 
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