There aren't really any sure counters for anything. Scarfgon or Scarf Szandora can outspeed and KO SD versions, and Hippo with Ice Fang/Mamoswine can take out scarf versions
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Garchomp
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
Cresselia can also take hits and Ice Beam back, defensive Celebi can recover and Leech Seed (but it's setup fodder unless it runs HP Ice), Dusclops/Dusknoir can take a few hits and Will-O-Wisp or Ice Punch, and there are a few other bulky walls that can take unboosted hits.
The problem is if Garchomp gets up an SD, it 2HKOs all these walls, many of them are setup fodder, and being walls, unless they have a recovery move, they're severely crippled by taking Garchomp's Outrages.
Also, as a rule, anything Scarfed should be easily dealt with, IMO.
The problem is if Garchomp gets up an SD, it 2HKOs all these walls, many of them are setup fodder, and being walls, unless they have a recovery move, they're severely crippled by taking Garchomp's Outrages.
Also, as a rule, anything Scarfed should be easily dealt with, IMO.
Tangrowth walls Garchomp pretty well. It loses the choice of Earthquake against it (16.3% - 19.3%), and even a Sun boosted Fire fang does little to it (without sun it does 28.2% - 33.7%). Outrage also fails to 2HKO without a boost (38.9% - 46%).
If you factor in healing from Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Ingrain/Synthesis then those damages really start to look dismal.
A SD variant does little better as at +2 Outrage does 59.7% - 70.5%. Which could then be healed off with Giga Drain/Synthesis.
The Calcs were done with a Jolly 252 Life Orb. +2 boosts was done without life orb, to factor in the prevalence of Yache berry on those sets.
If you factor in healing from Giga Drain/Leech Seed/Ingrain/Synthesis then those damages really start to look dismal.
A SD variant does little better as at +2 Outrage does 59.7% - 70.5%. Which could then be healed off with Giga Drain/Synthesis.
The Calcs were done with a Jolly 252 Life Orb. +2 boosts was done without life orb, to factor in the prevalence of Yache berry on those sets.
You would think that with support from politoed, a choice specs kingdra could easily OHKO this thing. Unbelievably difficult to counter, I think not!! I think that kingdra has successfully dethroned garchomp as the most useful dragon this gen.
Well yeah, with the brokenness that is Drizzle, pokes like Kingdra become pretty crazily powerful, that's not really a discredit to Garchomp
It isn't "broken" but yea drizzle+swift swim kingdra=annoying sweeper. I'm just saying that in a metagame where rain is quite common, garchomp will have some issues.
It's not broken to have 3 - 4 Super fast,super strong mons only walled by few(that are still easily killed) that are not seen in every team?
Swift Swim Kingdra isn't an annoying sweeper,it's a super fast,super strong,hard to kill sweeper.
Not much can take those boosted Hydro Pumps.
Oh,you survived Kingdra? Here comes Ludicolo.
You beat Ludicolo? Here comes friggen Kabutops.
GG
Anyway,back to Chomp.
He's still super strong any way you look at him.
The only things keeping him from Ubers are Lati@s,by forcing him to run Scarf sets.
If Soul Dew gets released,I have a feeling Garchomp is going back to Ubers.
I've been running the good old SD chomp set on my sun team with fire fang and a yache berry. I sometimes swap out the berry for a life orb, allowing me to score an OHKO on 252/252 Skarm with relative ease and handle balloon steels a tad easier. Yeah, the latis are a huge pain though, no way around that with chomp.
You forgot floatzel, LOL. Yes, we get it. Drizzle is annoying, but let's not forget ninetails, the other pokemon that got the ability to summon permanent weather.
Yet the things that abuse Sun aren't nearly as threatening as the ones that abuse Rain,heck not even close to Sand.
Hail though,just sucks.
Skarmbliss works well with chomp. I use a bulky chomp on my stall team to set up rocks and phase with dragon tail. It can come in on attacks aimed at Skarms weaknesses without any trouble and it can bluff a much more offensively potent set.
Skarmbliss can eat ice attacks all day assuming you know what side of the spectrum they'll be coming from (And I can't think of a mixed threat other than that new Ice dragon that commonly carries ice moves from both sides). If played correctly Blissey can keep Chomp in the game for a long time with wish.
Chomp is a good mixed wall to switch in when you don't know what your foe is going to use. With a fire move he makes a good lead against sun teams, setting up the dreaded rocks, hitting the fire types with EQ and the grass types with sun boosted fire attacks. Outside of sun teams he can use his fire attack to hit the x4 fire weak steel types that love to come in on him.
I do max HP, and split the remaining EV's between both defenses. I'm sure somebody has a better bulky EV distribution somewhere in this thread.
Skarmbliss can eat ice attacks all day assuming you know what side of the spectrum they'll be coming from (And I can't think of a mixed threat other than that new Ice dragon that commonly carries ice moves from both sides). If played correctly Blissey can keep Chomp in the game for a long time with wish.
Chomp is a good mixed wall to switch in when you don't know what your foe is going to use. With a fire move he makes a good lead against sun teams, setting up the dreaded rocks, hitting the fire types with EQ and the grass types with sun boosted fire attacks. Outside of sun teams he can use his fire attack to hit the x4 fire weak steel types that love to come in on him.
I do max HP, and split the remaining EV's between both defenses. I'm sure somebody has a better bulky EV distribution somewhere in this thread.
He is walled by skarm (since the two other moves are EG and a dragon move) who can phaze it easily.
Mold Breaker doesn't only negate Levitate, Sturdy, Wonder Guard, etc...
But I think I heard it can also ignore Sand Veil and Snow Cloak's evasion attempts right?
Maybe one reason why Garchomp is thrown to the Ubers is because of its ability under Sandstorm...if I'm a bit correct.
Mold Breaker Haxorus might probably counter non-scarfed Garchomp under sandstorm, without worrying about missing, because Mold Breaker will penetrate through Sand Veil.
But I think I heard it can also ignore Sand Veil and Snow Cloak's evasion attempts right?
Maybe one reason why Garchomp is thrown to the Ubers is because of its ability under Sandstorm...if I'm a bit correct.
Mold Breaker Haxorus might probably counter non-scarfed Garchomp under sandstorm, without worrying about missing, because Mold Breaker will penetrate through Sand Veil.
MB does negate it, but there's two problems with that:
1. Chomp outspeeds unless Haxorus is Scarfed
2. By the time you get Haxorus in, Chomp will likely be behind a Sub - which means Haxorus' only hope is to Dual Chop the Chomp. Problem with that is, is that Dual Chop doesn't KO through Sub even with Adamant/252 Atk.
Porygon2 is the one counter to Garchomp, if you switch him in right in then he can take 3 outrages or one +2 outrage and OHKO back with Ice Beam, he really takes him down and all of the dragons easily.
I'm not worried about Garchomp, all my pokemon outspeed it, same goes with Haxorus and Hydreigon, what I'm worried about is Ferrothorn, it's combination of typing, bulk, STAB moves and blistering speed make it a huge threat to my team.
deo-s cant keep up with them thorns x)
essentially sand veil is the be all and end all of the problem. it can very easily be dealt with assuming your moves are 100% accurate.
anyways ive been testing salac chomp lately. outrage + earthquake is all garchomp needs, and increasing its speed gives it so much freedom.
ive also tried 404 subschomp as well.
man... gone are the days when you just slapped choice scarf on it and were forced to run jolly.
I have been wondering though...
1) is sdsubchomp (or just sdchomp) with d.claw, not outrage, good enough to be used for nearly its "full" potential in battle subway?
2) must a sdsubchomp have d.claw and not outrage in standard 6v6 battles? personally i do think d.claw is a must but yeah
1) is sdsubchomp (or just sdchomp) with d.claw, not outrage, good enough to be used for nearly its "full" potential in battle subway?
2) must a sdsubchomp have d.claw and not outrage in standard 6v6 battles? personally i do think d.claw is a must but yeah