Garchomp's functionality in ubers

[Yuuki-kun]

I'm not saying that Garchomp is uber but it does out speed a lot of threats/walls. Just look at the calcs.
Hopefully, It will be of help for anyone deciding to ban Garchomp :D

(Note: no Lefties metalkid's damage calc can't calculate them.) So far the only advantage of adamant CB is 2HKO on Lugia.

Giratina Bold
252 hp/ 224 def evs

CB Adamant Outrage Damage: 421 - 496 Damage: 83.53% - 98.41% a 2HKO possibly a OHKO if the lefties are knocked off

CB Jolly Outrage Damage: 384 - 452 Damage: 76.19% - 89.68% A guaranteed 2HKO

Lugia Bold
252hp/ 52 def

CB Adamant Stone edge Damage: 252 - 297 Damage: 60.58% - 71.39% 2HKO but worries to ice beam.

CB Adamant Stone Edge(Critical hit)Damage: 505 - 594 Damage: 121.39% - 142.79% A guaranteed OHKO.

CB Jolly Stone Edge Damage: 230 - 271 Damage: 55.29% - 65.14%
A 2HKO And A critical hit also scores an OHKO.

Dialga Quiet
120 hp evs

CB Adamant Earthquake Damage: 464 - 546 Damage: 125.07% - 147.17% An OHKO. No need to worry about draco meteor because you out speed it anyways.

CB Jolly earthquake Damage: 423 - 498 Damage: 114.02% - 134.23% OHKO regardless.

Palkia Jolly
38 hp evs

CB Jolly Dragon Claw Damage: 423 - 498 Damage: 114.02% - 134.23% No need to post adamant calcs since you need to out speed it

Pokemon that would be out sped and OHKO
Rayquaza

Now for ScarfChomp Calcs

Latias Timid
112 hp evs

Scarfed Adamant Outrage Damage: 474 - 558 Damage: 144.07% - 169.60% OHKO but 2HKO with Dragon Claw though.

(Not that anyone Care but scarfed adamant Chomp Outspeed Deoxys A and OHKO.)


Now to discuss Garchomps viability in ubers.(Just in case he gets banned)

Got this idea off Shoddy Battle Chat

~werpooler2492

 

[Olie]

I'm not sure why you listed Adamant Garchomp, as It's only jolly used today.

What about calcs for kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, Lati@s, Manaphy, Deoxys-D?

They could also be considered "main threats"

 

[Yuuki-kun]

I did the Latias Calcs already. And I think it wouldn't be wise to leave garchomp in with sweepers. I only listed the main walls in Ubers. I also listed Adamant CB chomp because it still outspeed those walls if you prioritize them. But by just looking at the calcs, Jolly would still be recommended though. And you do realize that you need to out speed Latias or get threated for an OHKO. But deoxys-D and manaphy seem to be problems though. The walls that I posted are mostly weak to Chomp.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

I'd just use SD...........why use Outrage and get revenge fucked for sure. SD DC/EQ should take care of most things in Ubers as it is.

 

[Yuuki-kun]

I'd just use SD...........why use Outrage and get revenge fucked for sure. SD DC/EQ should take care of most things in Ubers as it is.

Actually, A very good Idea. I was thinking though of posing and Immediate threat to ubers. Also help lure our ice beamers for sure

 

[Eternal]

I'm not sure why you listed Adamant Garchomp, as It's only jolly used today.

What about calcs for kyogre, Groudon, Mewtwo, Lati@s, Manaphy, Deoxys-D?

They could also be considered "main threats"

Adamant Garchomp with SD has its worthiness in OU play. It guarantees many OHKO such as EQ OHKO Blissey. Outrage OHKO Swampert, Zapdos, etc.

Heck try out Outrage + SD + Orb. Thats something almst unstoppable.

The main reason you'd use jolly would be the reason you don't want base 100 pokes to be all jolly. Or the usual Garchomp vs Garchomp speed tie. (Which if you say to me is the lamest and no skill way to get through anything)

 

[Yuuki-kun]

Adamant Garchomp with SD has its worthiness in OU play. It guarantees many OHKO such as EQ OHKO Blissey. Outrage OHKO Swampert, Zapdos, etc.

Heck try out Outrage + SD + Orb. Thats something almst unstoppable.

The main reason you'd use jolly would be the reason you don't want base 100 pokes to be all jolly. Or the usual Garchomp vs Garchomp speed tie. (Which if you say to me is the lamest and no skill way to get through anything)

Um, like we are talking about Chomp in ubers. Going back to the topic, since hail is very uncommon in ubers, how about this chomp set

Focus Sasher
252 atk 12 hp 224 spd
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Swords Dance
Outrage
Stone Edge
Dragon Claw/earth quake

This Chomp get at least one SD under his belt the kill the walls listed above

or


SubSalac
Garchomp Jolly @Salac berry
252 atk 252 spd 6 hp

Substitute
Swords Dance
Outrage
Stone Edge


Sub on the switch. Get SD in Sub until Salac activates, the kill. Only problem is that it is limited to only two moves,Unlike above. Outspeeds Palkia and friends.

 

[Tracker]

The problem is getting Garchomp in on a switch. How much would X move from Y uber do is an important question to ask here. Garchomp as a revenge killer may be possible, but Dugtrio does mich better because of Arena Trap. Deoxys-A/S also does much better because it gets pursuit. The Outrage thing is also a bit iffy. A Groundon or other tankish pokemon could easily come in and set up on you.

 

[Syberia]

Hopefully, It will be of help for anyone deciding to ban Garchomp :D

Garchomp's functionality in ubers has nothing to do with whether or not he is banned from OU. It is whether or not he is broken in OU that matters. How well he does or does not perform in ubers is completely irrelevant.

 

[Thunderpup]

Syberia said it best.

Seaking shouldn't be uber just because it can compete there. Neither should garchump.

 

[Sudo]

Garchomp's functionality in ubers has nothing to do with whether or not he is banned from OU. It is whether or not he is broken in OU that matters. How well he does or does not perform in ubers is completely irrelevant.

I wouldn't write off the issue that fast. If Garchomp can do great in an environment where pokemon, banned from OU due to their strength, dominate, doesn't that say something considerable about Garchomp's status in OU?

 

[Maji]

I wouldn't write off the issue that fast. If Garchomp can do great in an environment where pokemon, banned from OU due to their strength, dominate, doesn't that say something considerable about Garchomp's status in OU?

Not at all Quilfish can preform well in ubers is it uber material all that matters is does it overpower its current tier.

 

[Thunderpup]

Seaking with swift swim and megahorn sucks in ou. Seaking with swift swim and megahorn is pretty viable in Ubers. That's the point.

You can't banish a pokemon to Ubers just because it works there. Seaking will never be uber. This proves nothing. Ubers is built for pokemon who are too powerful for standard play. If garchomp is deemed too powerful for standard play, he'll be moved.

 

[RaikouLover]

All the points are made ^^^^ You'd be surprised how many BL AND UU pokemon are very usable and perhaps MORE usable in ubers than OU. Toxicroak, Lanturn, Honchrow, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Quilfish, Seaking, Shiftry, Eggy <--- are all usable in ubers and can be used effectively. Hell, Shedinja is only seen in ubers... But this is a piss-poor argument as none of these pokemon are "uber."

 

[Sudo]

I already knew that the status of a pokemon in the OU metagame shouldn't be solely determined by its performance in another tier, but the point I'm trying to make is that in Garchomp's case, his performance in Ubers should be a big indicator in his debate.

If you're going to compare my point to the fact that several UU/BL pokemon are usable in OU play, you should consider why they can be so in the first place. The main reason is that most of their abilities are triggered with auto-weather; they don't need to waste a turn setting up, when they would otherwise usually die due to their fragility. So, in this sense, those UU/BL pokemon are dependent on another pokemon for their success; they can't kick ass on the merit of their own unboosted stats.

Garchomp, on the other hand, can pose an immediate threat to most of the titans, as demonstrated by the OP's post, and follow up with a quick 1 or 2-KO. How many OU pokemon are able to obliterate Giratina (the game's supposedly best physical wall), Dialga, Rayquaza, and Palkia with one moveset? That's something that should be considered here.

 

[Syberia]

I already knew that the status of a pokemon in the OU metagame shouldn't be solely determined by its performance in another tier, but the point I'm trying to make is that in Garchomp's case, his performance in Ubers should be a big indicator in his debate.

"Should not at all be influenced by its performance in another tier."

 

[Sudo]

"Should not at all be influenced by its performance in another tier."

I'd like you to explain, because otherwise it's a useless quip.

 

[Thunderpup]

Look, it's very simple.
If garchomp is too powerful for OU (standard) play, then he will be moved, regardless of his usability there.
For all I care, he could be too good for ubers, but as long as he stays OU, we don't need to discuss this.

Nobody is discussing how well wobuffet works in ubers, in fact he's rarely seen there, but it's popular opinion he should move because he is too powerful for OU.

 

[Raikou]

His point isn't that Garchomp's viability in ubers is the reason he should or should not be moved there. His point is that Garchomp performs well as an uber Pokemon which speaks for itself about his power level, regardless of where he is tiered right now.

 

[SubVersion]

His point is that Garchomp performs well as an uber Pokemon which speaks for itself about his power level, regardless of where he is tiered right now.

... Which is completely wrong, anyway. Several Pokemon perform well in Ubers, even ones that don't fit the "but they benefit from auto-weather" excuse. Blissey, Forretress, Metagross, Shedinja, Heracross, Dugtrio... None of these Pokemon even come close to being Uber yet they perform admirably well in that metagame.

Part of the reason Garchomp does well is because a large portion of the Uber metagame is Dragon type and thus weak to his attacks. That's the same reason Heracross' Megahorn can be so effective: The pool of usable pokemon is smaller and a lot of them are Psychics.

This "He works in Ubers, therefor he must have Uber powers" assertion just doesn't work when you consider the myriad of other factors.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Seconding the much better SD/DC/EQ/FF set for Ubers since outrage is asking for trouble with all of the Dragon and Ice move using Scarfers, Darkrai, Lati@s, Lugia etc.

Sure, Garchomp can perform well in Ubers, but so can Quagsire. Those calculations are pretty neat to look at, actually. I would be interested to see some calculations against Garchomp too, such as taking Extremespeeds, Kyogre Surfs and coming into Groudon EQs, etc

 

[Ambitions]

It doesn't matter at all if it can handle the uber environment its a tier pokemon are banned to.

His point isn't that Garchomp's viability in ubers is the reason he should or should not be moved there.

... Which is completely wrong,

Seconded SubVersion.

I mean why isn't every one saying Scyther should be uber? By this kids logic it should be because it can function there.

 

[IggyBot]

I wouldn't write off the issue that fast. If Garchomp can do great in an environment where pokemon, banned from OU due to their strength, dominate, doesn't that say something considerable about Garchomp's status in OU?

There's nothing to write off. As far as I know, how a pokemon performs in ubers has never been looked at when determining tier status. It's already been proven, in this topic and another a little while back, as well as players actually using Garchomp, that it works in ubers. The base 102 speed allows him to outspeed both Rayquaza and Palkia, two other major threats, and the combination of STAB attacks lets him take out a myriad of uber threats. Yeah, this was established a long time ago.

There are several, non-weather dependant pokemon that perform exceptionally well in ubers. Some examples off the top of my head: Metagross, Forretress, Dugtrio, Jirachi, Celebi, Scizor, Blissey, I could probably keep going if you want me to.

So since these pokemon work well in uber play, does that somehow make their OU performance better?

 

[BlueCookies]

I'm not saying that Garchomp is uber but it does out speed a lot of threats/walls. Just look at the calcs.
Hopefully, It will be of help for anyone deciding to ban Garchomp :D

Now to discuss Garchomps viability in ubers.(Just in case he gets banned)

First of all, how Garchomp does in Ubers doesn't matter in the decision of whether he should be banned or not. Second, you can already use him in Ubers, it doesn't matter if he's banned or not. Lastly, Garchomp has already seen some usage in Ubers. I don't think he's great for Ubers, but he's definitely not bad. CB can get revenge killed easily, but he does pose more of an immediate threat. The SD set has to set up and imo, if I'm going to be setting up a Dragon Pokemon, I would rather give Rayquaza a DD than Garchomp a SD. Everyone who has said that the SD set is better because it is not as easily revenge killed has a point, but the fact that it doesn't pose an immediate threat is big imo. Considdering that in Ubers where Garchomp has a lot tougher time dominating like it does in OU, and Yache Berry won't help it because Dragon type attacks are also very common from faster Pokemon like Lati@s and the ever common Scarfed Palkia, I don't think he's that great, but is certainly useful. I think Scarf would be best for him imo, not CB or SD.

 

[Sudo]

There are several, non-weather dependant pokemon that perform exceptionally well in ubers. Some examples off the top of my head: Metagross, Forretress, Dugtrio, Jirachi, Celebi, Scizor, Blissey, I could probably keep going if you want me to.

So since these pokemon work well in uber play, does that somehow make their OU performance better?

It certainly does complement their status in the overall metagame.

Yeah, this discussion can't really get anywhere until the community agrees upon a clearer definition and guidelines of the Uber tier.