Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion

I don't want to get everyone's hopes up, but since everyone is playing the same illegal moon ROM, there's a good chance this isn't the case.

There are 19 buyable stones in Moon. There are 19 non-legendary, non-starter missing stones. Gee, I wonder where you might be able to get those 19 stones? They're version exclusive if you're a little dense

This still leaves the Hoenn starters and Legendary mega stones in the dark, but that's a significantly larger pool than this post implies.
I highly doubt it would matter either way as whoever runs the meta said they would allow unreleased stones anyway.
 
I don't think Z-moves can be Sketched, but they should be playable in STABmons, by the way.
Actually, no, they shouldn't. STABmons's premise is built on giving new moves to Pokemon assuming the Pokemon could learn it outside of battle, hence why mega Pokemon can't reverse transfer moves to their base formes. Z-moves are only available in battle and thus cannot be learned like normal moves in STABmons.
 

Uselesscrab

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Presenting inaugural Gen 7 BH replays! You can't save replays on the development server so I had to download them. Make sure you click the download button instead of just clicking on the file itself so you don't get a giant blob of text. In order, they go from right to left. I'll probably add more soon.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0BwXNBPKJAe9ebFloT2h5VGR3U00

edit: one thing to note is that custom game still uses some gen 6 mechanics
 
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MacChaeger

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Sorry for double post but this is a very different topic. (Feel free to merge my posts or delete the previous one if necessary)

I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, but it's probably worth noting:



While many of them are likely to function like a superior version of Natural Gift in BH or Sketchmons (can they be sketched? idk) — they have 1 PP — it can be restored by a Leppa Berry, which might be fun in combination with Harvest (credit to nyan kat for this idea). Here's a list of the so-called "Special Z-Moves" (I may have screwed up at some point):

Pulverizing Pancake — 210 BP, Normal, Physical
Stoked Sparksurfer — 175 BP + paralysis, Electric, Special
Catastropika — 210 BP, Electric, Physical
10,000,000 Volts Thunderbolt — 195 BP + high crit rate, Electric, Special
Extreme Evoboost — sharply increases Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed
Guardian of Alola — Damages the target for 75% of its remaining HP
Sinister Arrow Raid— 180 BP, Ghost, Physical
Malicious Moonsault — 180 BP, Dark, Physical
Oceanic Operetta — 195 BP, Water, Special
Genesis Supernova — 185 BP + sets Psychic Terrain, Psychic, Special
Soul-Stealing Seven Star Strike — 195 BP, Ghost, Physical

I don't expect most of these to be especially popular because of the high cost associated with using a 1 PP move (and the relinquishing of an item and/or ability slot if you want to use them more than once), but I am also not looking forward to being hit with -ate Pulverizing Pancake or facing a Dazzling (or any ability really) Extreme Evoboost user.
leppa cycle harvest evoboost les go rip meta 2016

seriously though, leppacycle might become viable in bh JUST to use these amazing moves more then once. my question, is what happens when you pp max it? does it freeze the game? say its unaffected? or boost the pp to 2, or even 3?
Fun thing about using Harvest + Leppa Berry: if you both do it at the same time, the game ends in a tie due to endless battle clause! http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-478024534
 
I wanted to know something. Everyone is speaking of harvesting Leppa Berry to run infinite Z moves. But how? Z move require a Z stone. So how can a pokemon hold both Leppa Berry and Z stone. Unless it's Enchanted items metagame. And iirc The z moves are not ordinary moves that can be learnt. So in BH can you really put z moves on a pokemon?
 
I wanted to know something. Everyone is speaking of harvesting Leppa Berry to run infinite Z moves. But how? Z move require a Z stone. So how can a pokemon hold both Leppa Berry and Z stone. Unless it's Enchanted items metagame. And iirc The z moves are not ordinary moves that can be learnt. So in BH can you really put z moves on a pokemon?
In BH the signature Z moves like Extreme Evoboost and Pulverising Pancake can be put on any Pokemon without needing the item, except they only have 1 PP. Just so everyone knows, Leppa Berry + Z moves doesn't work properly atm on showdown bc the Z moves have their PP coded weirdly.
 
Actually, no, they shouldn't. STABmons's premise is built on giving new moves to Pokemon assuming the Pokemon could learn it outside of battle, hence why mega Pokemon can't reverse transfer moves to their base formes. Z-moves are only available in battle and thus cannot be learned like normal moves in STABmons.
Oh, i see. Sorry i was wrong.
 

UltiMario

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Custom Games aren't even properly working yet so idk if this is implemented, but I'd figure its BH relevant so I'd throw it out there: If we're trying to be faithful to the games, there is no text associated with using a normal slot Z-Move. Whatever move you're using remains hidden from the other player.
 

The Immortal

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Custom Games aren't even properly working yet so idk if this is implemented, but I'd figure its BH relevant so I'd throw it out there: If we're trying to be faithful to the games, there is no text associated with using a normal slot Z-Move. Whatever move you're using remains hidden from the other player.
is it possible to get a video of using it? and using it a second time too, with no pp.
 
Custom Games aren't even properly working yet so idk if this is implemented, but I'd figure its BH relevant so I'd throw it out there: If we're trying to be faithful to the games, there is no text associated with using a normal slot Z-Move. Whatever move you're using remains hidden from the other player.
If you hack Extreme Evoboost into your moveset and use it, does the opponent see the stat changes?
 

ih8ih8sn0w

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is it possible to get a video of using it? and using it a second time too, with no pp.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9e7xcUkDbCsWHB6LVZ5YW0yaUU/view?usp=sharing There isn't any audio besides static, so turn volume down.

If it gets to 0 pp, you cannot select it at all, doesn't even give a no pp left indicator.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9e7xcUkDbCsNk5lYzZfY0ltNUE/view?usp=sharing

One more thing, damage is applied instantly when used as a normal move. I will upload a video of that tonight because I need to go now.

If you hack Extreme Evoboost into your moveset and use it, does the opponent see the stat changes?
Yes.
 
Ok so I posted that in BH suspect and bans earlier but deleted because I had no reason to post it in suspect and bans.

RIP THE GREATEST MOVE IN GEN 6 BH
Shore Up now completely outclasses Milk Drink no matter the user.
Anyway it could be particularly good on Sand stream mons. Adrian was already running Sand Stream Diancie in Oras for example and a few other mons might want to try it out.
If you think it's useless I was running shore up on every mon earlier and battled someone with sand stream.

Spectral Thief depending on if it goes past sub or not (which I think ppl said it does), now completely outclasses Heart Swap. The problem with heart swap is that if you used it but can't punish the opponant they would just start boosting again and you wouldn't be able to heart swap because you already have boosts. With spectral thief you can do it repeatedly and yourself get more and more boost everytime and it's immune to taunt. It also provides Passive stuff like Giratina with a way to deal decent damage.
That's what I said originally anyway but I'm pretty confused on the mechanics of Spectral thief, I used it against a subbed Rayquaza and I damaged him through the sub but didn't steal the boosts, is this intended behaviour?

Potentially not garbage sets:

Lunala @ Fairium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Stored Power
- Extreme Evoboost
- Fleur Cannon

Really I just wanted to have something kinda like mmy except with Stab Moongeist beam that way I can run Stored power and still have a Stab to click when unboosted (I also have an easier time forcing out Gira n stuff)

This thing can actually beat two common unaware users with rocks support which is pretty good.

252+ SpA Lunala Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Yveltal: 354-418 (77.6 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Lunala Stored Power (220 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Mega Audino in Psychic Terrain: 378-445 (92.1 - 108.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


Solgaleo @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Nuzzle
- U-turn
- Icicle Crash
- Darkest Lariat

Have you ever thought "Man regenvest megagross is such a cool mon, I wish they'd make it bulkier"? Because that's pretty much what Solgaleo is since it can be bulkier than Megagross on both sides. (notice I said "can" that's because if you just maximize spd you'll end up having slightly less def than megagross so you can move a few EVs around and be bulkier on both sides just for the fun of it, but maximising spd is better imo)

Calc comparison:
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Metagross: 224-264 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Mega Metagross: 367-434 (100.8 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Mewtwo Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 256-302 (53.5 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Solgaleo: 424-499 (88.7 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

Now I am one of the people that thought "Man regenvest megagross is such a cool mon, I wish they'd make it bulkier" so I'm really gladly to have Solgaleo in the meta.
Anyway darkest lariat is to do as much damage as possible to mmy after it used that garbage eevee z move thing. Nuzzle is to para ppl who use that garbage eevee z move thing.
It's really just standard regenvest megagross but with better bulk so I wanted to point it out. And with all the psychic terrain garbage that will spawn it's bound to be good.

Anyway there's a couple of other sets that I wanna test a bit before sharing, but needless to say there seems to be a lot of possibilities with what gen7 gave us.
 
I was surfing through the pokemon when I ran across Muk-Alola, which has Power of Alchemy.
"This pokemon copies the Ability of an ally that faints."
Coincidentally, Muk-Alola is a Poison/Dark.


Shedinja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: Doesn't matter
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit
(Basically you just need this thing to die.)


Muk-Alola @ Air Balloon
Ability: Power of Alchemy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak

So basically you kill off the Shedinja and send in Muk-Alola, which inherits Wonder Guard. Now you have an invincible Muk! Except for burns, Mold Breaker, trapping moves, and Leech Seed, this thing can't be hit.
 

ihhca

STABman
How do hacked-in Z-Moves and transform interact? Can imposters use the Z-Move? Do the imposters have 5 PP on the Z-Move or just 1? If they have 5, does the move fail after the first use or not?

If they have full access to 5 uses of the Z-Move then this is a pretty awful way to imposter-proof your team, since it benefits the imposter more than you.

Also if you transform into something with Power of Alchemy that has copied an ability, do you get PoA or whatever the copied ability is?
 

Uselesscrab

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I was surfing through the pokemon when I ran across Muk-Alola, which has Power of Alchemy.
"This pokemon copies the Ability of an ally that faints."
Coincidentally, Muk-Alola is a Poison/Dark.


Shedinja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: Doesn't matter
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Final Gambit
(Basically you just need this thing to die.)


Muk-Alola @ Air Balloon
Ability: Power of Alchemy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Curse
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Shadow Sneak

So basically you kill off the Shedinja and send in Muk-Alola, which inherits Wonder Guard. Now you have an invincible Muk! Except for burns, Mold Breaker, trapping moves, and Leech Seed, this thing can't be hit.
I'm pretty sure that this is referring to a doubles ally. In addition, it doesn't work on Wonder Guard anyway. https://twitter.com/squirrelboyVGC/status/797202268189757441
 
How do hacked-in Z-Moves and transform interact? Can imposters use the Z-Move? Do the imposters have 5 PP on the Z-Move or just 1? If they have 5, does the move fail after the first use or not?

If they have full access to 5 uses of the Z-Move then this is a pretty awful way to imposter-proof your team, since it benefits the imposter more than you.

Also if you transform into something with Power of Alchemy that has copied an ability, do you get PoA or whatever the copied ability is?
Transform/Imposter users can copy Z-moves and use them. Even if normal moves have 5 PP if copied, Z-moves have 1 PP.
For Power of Alchemy, i don't know.
 
That confirms it guys! Z-Moves are usable in BH (with 1 PP), but are not usable in Sketchmons and STABmons.
just tried two BH gen7 games.
Guess the mechanics are bugged right now, or I understand the things wrongly.
One is that, my opponents are all just spamming Evoboost, while my encore failed and the pp indicator shows -1, it can still use them. Confirmed no leppa berry involved. I recall that encore fails on Z move, but the PP is definitely wrong for now.
Also, spammed by Mew's signature on lunala, and it used it 3 times...

The other one is about the Spectral thief. It should bypass sub and successfully steal the stat at the same time, I assume. I think UltiMario could confirm this more firmly.
 
Here is a answer for everyone who has enough of all the Steam Eruption spam in STABmons:


Araquanid
Type: Water/bug
Abilities: Water Bubble/Water Absorb
Base stats: 68/70/92/50/132/42

Water Bubble is the main selling point of Araquanid. The ability halves damage of Fire-type attacks and makes it immune to burn. Not only that but it also doubles the power of Water-type moves used by the pokémon having the ability. This makes up for Araquanid's low base Attack stat and turns it into a water cannon not even matched by Azumarill. While it normally doesn't really have a good movepool (it really wants Aqua Jet, just look at its Speed), in STABmons it can find a way to shine.

Araquanid @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Heal Order
- Aqua Jet
- Liquidation

If you think of Steam Eruption in STABmons, you think of Keldeo. Its Choice Specs set can shred a lot of things apart, but not this lil' fella. Araquanid can take the hit, recover back up with Heal Order and deal solid damage back with Liquidation, which also has a chance to lower the target's Defense:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Steam Eruption vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Araquanid: 115-136 (33.8 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 111-131 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Althought there is still a chance for Keldeo to 2HKO Araquanid after rocks with Water Spout, it can only do so when running Modest CS. If you're worried about that, you can always invest more EV's into SpD, but that takes away a shunk of Araquanid's power behind its moves. Speaking of which, a STAB Water-bubble-boosted Aqua Jet from this thing really hurts. It can make for a good revenge killer besides the regular E-speeders and if you really want a monster, you can also go with a CB-set:

252+ Atk Choice Band Water Bubble Araquanid Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 144-169 (42.2 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

U-turn is there for momentum. With low speed it can give a safe switch-in after taking a hit.


Araquanid could also go Special. With access to Tail Glow and Quiver Dance it could make for a good (Trick Room) sweeper. 50 SpA is not good but with Water Bubble it essentially has a Huge Power boost to all its Water moves:

+3 252+ SpA Life Orb Water Bubble Araquanid Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 312-367 (88.6 - 104.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Pretty gimmicky, but something even more gimmicky would be Power Split. This moves distributes the offensive stats of user and target evenly between the two. If you find an opportunity to Power Split on pokémon with high Atk/SpA, you can not only start hitting harder, but also take hits better as the opponent has there offenses crippled.
 
Here's a neat little core I've been running on the BH ladder;

Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Thousand Waves
- Topsy-Turvy
- Worry Seed
- Shore Up

I made this Zygodset to check Extreme-evoboost Water-bubble P-yogre spam that was pretty rampant on the ladder. With Evoboost gone however, it has a much easier job considering Water bubble P-ogre prefers to run earth power as its coverage move of choice, which really does nothing to Zygod.
252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde: 54-64 (18.5 - 21.9%) -- possible 5HKO
It serves as a neat trapper for water bubble P-ogre on my team to remove opposing Chansey's

Kyogre-Primal @ Lum Berry
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Earth Power
- Quiver Dance
- Volt Switch

The evs on this used to be different but I had to adjust it for the fact that there is no more evoboost. The ev's allow it to outspeed MM-Y after a quiver. It hits hard straight off the bat because of water bubble so often a QD isn't needed. Volt switch is so that you can volt on the Chansey that comes in to imposter you to bring in Zygod safely.

It's a pretty cool core and I'm having fun using it so far. :o
 
I just tested Shell Bell (item) + Triage (ability) on Showdown to get to know if the damage-healing effect of Shell Bell would count for purpouse to receive +3 priority, but it failed.

Can someone test this in-game just to be sure that's how the mechanics work?

It would be interesting to see Mega-Rayquaza replacing Oblivion Wing for Dragon Ascent.
 

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