Gen 7 OM Competitive Discussion

Decided to do some calcs for some interesting mons in M&M.

First one is on Nihilego:

Rock/Poison

Calc Storm on Nihilego:

Nihilego @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Dazzling Gleam
- Power Gem
- Thunder

OFFENSIVE CALCS:
252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableite Blissey: 121-144 (16.9 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 211-250 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Altarianite Entei: 552-650 (148.3 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 456-536 (127.7 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 350-412 (89 - 104.8%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Slowbro: 262-309 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Thunder vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Aggronite Slowbro: 354-418 (90 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Pidgeotite Nihilego Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pinsirite Cobalion: 208-246 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

DEFENSIVE CALCS:
252 Atk Pixilate Altarinite Entei Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pidgeotite Nihilego: 175-207 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 4 HP Pidgeotite Nihilego: 50-50 (13.8 - 13.8%) -- guaranteed 8HKO

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pidgeotite Nihilego: 1392-1636 (386.6 - 454.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pidgeotite Nihilego in Harsh Sun: 217-256 (60.2 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pidgeotite Nihilego: 1156-1368 (321.1 - 380%) -- guaranteed OHKO

100 SpA Sablenite Suicune Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pidgeotite Nihilego: 152-182 (42.2 - 50.5%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Ampharos Volcanion Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pidgeotite Nihilego: 248-294 (68.8 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Yeah, I see no viability in the mon at least with P-ite.
 
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its not hard to just look them up yourself lmao

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/look-here-first-pokemon-sun-and-moon-mine-resource-thread.3586425/
or alternatively each mon has its own thread with all of its stats and whatnot: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/sun-and-moon.374/
It's hard when you're on mobile, constantly scrolling through. If you're going to make a couple paragraphs discussing a pokemon take a minute extra to tell us what the pokemon actually is tbh.
 
Here's some Calc storming on Pheromosa:
Bug/Fighting
Abilities: Beast Boost
HP: 71
Atk: 137
Def: 37
SpAtk: 137
SpDef: 37
Spe: 151

Crazy attack, crazy SpA, crazy speed.

Bad movepool and absolutely no bulk - a definite glass cannon. However full speed EV's gives 441 speed - insane. WILL OUTSPEED A GLALITE WEAVILE.

Pheromosa @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-Turn
- High Jump Kick
- Roost
- Poison Jab

252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Blissey: 738-870 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (RIP WALL)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 247-292 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aggronite Slowbro: 386-456 (97.9 - 115.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock (Did not take filter into account, please ignore)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 67-79 (16.5 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO (Thats some decent Uturn damage on a pdon)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Sablenite Mew: 284-336 (70.2 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 294-348 (79 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Tough Claws Pheromosa High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Entei: 180-212 (48.3 - 56.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This mon could work very well imo with some psychic terrain blocking priority with it's huge speed. However if it takes a hit it's pretty much done for.
 
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Here's some Calc storming on Buzzwole:

Buzzwole
Bug/Fighting
Abilities: Beast Boost
HP: 107
Atk: 139
Def: 139
SpAtk: 53
SpDef: 53
Spe: 79

Decent all around, watch out for Special Attackers.

Buzzwole @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leech Life
- Superpower
- Ice Punch / Thunder Punch
- Lunge
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sablenite Blissey: 686-810 (96 - 113.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Filter Slowbro: 270-319 (68.7 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Blue Orb Skarmory: 201-237 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latiasite Heatran: 536-632 (165.4 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsirite Noivern: 174-206 (55.7 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 156 HP / 0 Def Pinsirite Klinklang: 270-318 (90 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blazikenite Landorus: 343-404 (207.8 - 244.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 117-138 (36.5 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pinsirite Cobalion: 262-310 (80.8 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pidgeonite Gengar: 82-97 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- 83.2% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 326-386 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 182-215 (46.1 - 54.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Leech Life vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 121-143 (30.7 - 36.2%) -- 55.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 382-450 (111.6 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Tough Claws Aerodactylite Buzzwole Leech Life vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 253-298 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I think this can actually have some use, depending on how the meta plays out.
 
Ok so ih8ih8sn0w confirmed in chat that Steelworker gives x1.5 boost to Steel moves. If you don't know Steelworker, it's Dhelmise's Ability (If you don't know Dhelmise, it's that Grass/Ghost mon that shapes like anchor btw). It prob won't be big as Steel is not the greatest offensive typing but having an Ability that gives a Band/Specs boost to Steel moves can be good I think.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
speaking of ih8, idk where to ask them, so ill just ask here. how does arceus work now? it seems like arc MIGHT not be entirely limited to running multitype+ plates, as that would mean arc would need to be coded with z crystals too. test these:

arceus-dark with multitype and spooky plate.
arceus normal with no multitype and plate
arceus dark with no multitype or plate.
arceus ghost with multitype and no plate.

i think this might be the generation that arc no longer needs its plates/z crystal, but its possible either way. so id like some confirmation pls ~<3 plus, i think this is HUGE information for BH, so i bet everyone wants info on this too.
 

ih8ih8sn0w

Koreaboo
is a Researcher Alumnus
speaking of ih8, idk where to ask them, so ill just ask here. how does arceus work now? it seems like arc MIGHT not be entirely limited to running multitype+ plates, as that would mean arc would need to be coded with z crystals too. test these:

arceus-dark with multitype and spooky plate.
arceus normal with no multitype and plate
arceus dark with no multitype or plate.
arceus ghost with multitype and no plate.

i think this might be the generation that arc no longer needs its plates/z crystal, but its possible either way. so id like some confirmation pls ~<3 plus, i think this is HUGE information for BH, so i bet everyone wants info on this too.
Ghost with Dark Forme
Normal with Normal Forme (Pixie Plate)
Giving it a crystal in game reset its ability (Normal and psychic gem after injecting again) :(
Normal with Dark Forme
 
Ok so ih8ih8sn0w confirmed in chat that Steelworker gives x1.5 boost to Steel moves. If you don't know Steelworker, it's Dhelmise's Ability (If you don't know Dhelmise, it's that Grass/Ghost mon that shapes like anchor btw). It prob won't be big as Steel is not the greatest offensive typing but having an Ability that gives a Band/Specs boost to Steel moves can be good I think.
Steelworker might gets some use from Doom Desire Dialga, Heavy Slam Mega-Metagross, Gyro Ball Escavalier, a sweeper with Sunsteel Strike.
 
Apparently dark types are also immune to prankster assist and nature power, if this is true does this mean assist could remain unbanned in BH? The main selling point for assist teams were their ability to sweep with powerful priority attacks after all. Just one dark type and assist teams can potentially be kept at bay. its not like offensive dark types are niche or gimmicky either, Ttar, gyarados and maybe yveltal are all relevant threats
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Apparently dark types are also immune to prankster assist and nature power, if this is true does this mean assist could remain unbanned in BH? The main selling point for assist teams were their ability to sweep with powerful priority attacks after all. Just one dark type and assist teams can potentially be kept at bay. its not like offensive dark types are niche or gimmicky either, Ttar, gyarados and maybe yveltal are all relevant threats
Not only that, we have Dazzling, Queenly Majesty, and Psychic Surge (or just random Psychic Terrain) to keep them at bay. Sure, not all Assist teams made use of (exclusively) Prankster Primal Groudon, but non-Prankster ones can be handled fairly similarly to regular, non-Assist Primal Groudon. I think an unban would be worthy of consideration.

On another note, can we get some confirmation as to whether or not the EV limit will be in place when the metagame goes live (I'm assuming very soon)? I think it would be best to leave it in place until we see concrete evidence that something has changed since ORAS.
 

Uselesscrab

the life you chose to lead had the desired effect
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Sorry for double post but this is a very different topic. (Feel free to merge my posts or delete the previous one if necessary)

I haven't seen a lot of discussion about this, but it's probably worth noting:

Special Z-Moves function normally regardless of user or item. Ex Life Orb Arceus can use Pulverizing Pancake.
While many of them are likely to function like a superior version of Natural Gift in BH or Sketchmons (can they be sketched? idk) — they have 1 PP — it can be restored by a Leppa Berry, which might be fun in combination with Harvest (credit to nyan kat for this idea). Here's a list of the so-called "Special Z-Moves" (I may have screwed up at some point):

Pulverizing Pancake — 210 BP, Normal, Physical
Stoked Sparksurfer — 175 BP + paralysis, Electric, Special
Catastropika — 210 BP, Electric, Physical
10,000,000 Volts Thunderbolt — 195 BP + high crit rate, Electric, Special
Extreme Evoboost — sharply increases Attack, Defense, Special Attack, Special Defense, Speed
Guardian of Alola — Damages the target for 75% of its remaining HP
Sinister Arrow Raid— 180 BP, Ghost, Physical
Malicious Moonsault — 180 BP, Dark, Physical
Oceanic Operetta — 195 BP, Water, Special
Genesis Supernova — 185 BP + sets Psychic Terrain, Psychic, Special
Soul-Stealing Seven Star Strike — 195 BP, Ghost, Physical

I don't expect most of these to be especially popular because of the high cost associated with using a 1 PP move (and the relinquishing of an item and/or ability slot if you want to use them more than once), but I am also not looking forward to being hit with -ate Pulverizing Pancake or facing a Dazzling (or any ability really) Extreme Evoboost user.
 
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Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
leppa cycle harvest evoboost les go rip meta 2016

seriously though, leppacycle might become viable in bh JUST to use these amazing moves more then once. my question, is what happens when you pp max it? does it freeze the game? say its unaffected? or boost the pp to 2, or even 3?
 
A few questions on Z moves:

- Can moves such as Pulverizing Pancake and Extreme Evoboost be used / are avalible on other mons or just hardcoded / only on Lax and Eevee respectively?
- Can Z moves' max PP be increased at all? For example will they only have one PP max due to help item loss?
- As a follow up question, are all Z moves activated based on help item, similar to a mega evolution?
 
leppa cycle harvest evoboost les go rip meta 2016

seriously though, leppacycle might become viable in bh JUST to use these amazing moves more then once. my question, is what happens when you pp max it? does it freeze the game? say its unaffected? or boost the pp to 2, or even 3?
PP up doesn't work on them, this has been tested.
 
Maybe Lunar Dance will get some utility in BH, since it restores PP.
It seems that -ates don't work on Pulverizing Pancake, even if you put it in a normal move slot.
But this also means that you could run Soul-Stealing 7 Star Strike or Catastropika for coverage in a Normalize Regigigas set.

I don't think Z-moves can be Sketched, but they should be playable in STABmons, by the way.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I'm pretty sure 1 PP moves have been coded to work that way since Gen II introduced Sketch. So I'm not surprised that PP Up doesn't work.
yeah, when i typed it i forgot all about sketch until i was almost done typing, but i figured it was still worth asking because gamefreak has twisted mechanics weird for a bit of things.
 

UltiMario

Out of Obscurity
is a Pokemon Researcher
so...mix and mega just got a HUGE nerf. apparently, only 20 of the 47 mega stones are obtainable. and since you cant bring items from gen 6 to gen 7 via pokebank....yeaaaah we didnt think about that possibility.

these are just via "buyable" stones. so there might be other ways to obtain them, so take this with a grain of salt.
I don't want to get everyone's hopes up, but since everyone is playing the same illegal moon ROM, there's a good chance this isn't the case.

There are 19 buyable stones in Moon. There are 19 non-legendary, non-starter missing stones. Gee, I wonder where you might be able to get those 19 stones? They're version exclusive if you're a little dense

This still leaves the Hoenn starters and Legendary mega stones in the dark, but that's a significantly larger pool than this post implies.
 

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