Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

Hello!

Due to covid, I find myself spending a lot of time at home. Was packing up my room when I found my old emerald GBA. When I opened it, I found a letter written 10 years ago, promising myself that I will conquer battle tower 1 day for at least the silver medal (50 wins) or Gold medal (100wins). These medals are for the secret base and not the golden symbols. I have all 7 silver symbols, with 1 gold in the dome. My previous record was 47, and I was able to push it to 48 this play through, but am generally still struggling to get at least 50 wins. Preferably I would like to get the golden symbol (70wins). Would appreciate some input here guys! I am focusing on open level, and have close to one full box of lv100 Pokemon. Following the steps laid out by my 10 year old self, here are my leading pokemon:

Slaking
Nature: Adamant Item: Choice Band
252 ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Double Edge
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
- Rock slide

Latias (From emerald, without the IV glitch in ruby or saphire)
Nature: Modest Item: Leftovers
252 SP ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Psychic
- Ice beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Tyranitar
Nature: Adamant Item: Chesto Berry
252 ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Earthquake
- Rock slide
- Rest
- Dragon dance

Gyarados
Nature: Adament Item: Chesto Berry
252 ATK / 252 SPD / 4 HP
- Earthquake
- Hyper beam
- Rest
- Dragon dance

Strategy:
Pretty self-explanatory: I lead with slaking to get to try a KO to make it 3-2, then swap into either 1 of my special or physical sweeper to set up depending on their resistance. Tyranitar or Gyarados will try to get a extra DD in with rest+chesto.

Dilemma:
Slaking and Latias have served me well and are pretty much locked for me. What is remaining is my 3rd slot. I use Tyranitar as his stats are better than Gyarados, but he creates x2 weakness for bug and fighting combined with Latias and Slaking. However, the moveset for Gyarados creates situations where I am walled by Gengar and ghost pokemon in general. I know hyper beam sucks, but with my internal battery dead and no additional GBA/cartridge, I have no access to return/double edge etc. I appreciate the intimidate by Gyarados but it somehow hasn't help me much, whereas the sandstream by Tyranitar can be a double edged sword. Any other suggestion would be appreciated!

Other EV trained Pokemon:
Scizor, Milotic, Suicune (lousy IV from firered), Heracross, Snorlax, Swampert, Porygon2, Skarmony, Hitmonlee (WHY 10 year old me!), Magmar (omg why did I waste so much time), Pikachu (with light ball), Sceptile with dragon claw

Other Non EV trained Pokemon:
Dragonite, Charizard, Genar, Rhydon, Articuno, Walrein, Houndoom, Tyranitar (another copy)

* I caught a shiny Poochyena while moving around trying to do stuff like finding heart scale etc!

* Will upload a photo of the letter from 10 years ago if I manage to get the gold symbol.
 
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Update:

I know its nothing much compared to the streaks found here, but I managed to break my previous best of 48 with 52 this time round. I lost to a Regirock that I couldn't kill. Fight is break down as followed:

He had on him leftovers with the following moves:
- Thunder wave
- Ancient power
- Rock slide
- Minimize (or was it double team?)

Turn 1: Slaking misses brick break for some reason. Regirock uses ancient power. Boosts everything.

Turn 2: Slaking truant, I had no choice but to swap to Latias (my only special sweeper) since Regirock has lower sp def than his monster def. Able to land ice beam. This is probably where I started to mess up, didn't know it was not super effective, should have went with STAB psychic. Damages only like 1/4 or 1/3 of his hp.

Turn 3 onwards: This is probably where I screwed up big time. I got caught in a power up battle with Regi, hoping than my STAB psychic will hit him hard after I get +6 or decrease his sp def. But his leftovers, minimize, ancient power and left overs proved too much. Latias was able to damage more than 3/4 of his hp eventually, before I swap in Tyranitar to DD and get a +6 and stall with rest. However, my misses combined with this boost from ancient power and leftovers eventually healed him back close to full health.

End turn: I was eventually able to force him to struggle, but with Slaking I was unable to hit any brick break again due to this minimize. He finished me with struggle. His leftovers was just enough to cover the recoil dmg. It was a pretty agonizing process. To be fair, even if the brick break hit in the beginning I doubt it would have made much difference to be honest.


x1.jpg


I guess this counts as fulfilling a part of my childhood goals? Since I got the silver medal and placed it in my secret base...

x2.jpg


The funny thing is I won 2 previous close battles against these stalling strategies. (Registeel and wailord) Albeit painfully...

This might be a sign for me to develop a counter against a staller or something. I had a scizor with swift that was developed specifically for this. But it doesn't seem to gel well with Slaking and Latias in my trial runs. Unfortunately, I do not have aerial ace anymore to counter these pesky teams too. I am considering Adedede's strategy of using Wobbufet to build on my slaking-make-it-3-2-strategy.

Sadly, my streaks leading up to this was:

- 39 wins (Misplay)
- 20 wins (Messing around with random teams - Hearcross swap Tyranitar)
- 48 wins (Infamous RNG Rhydon horn drill x2, probably had a quick claw, my +3 Tyranitar missed earthquake to finish him off)
- 28 wins (Messing around with random teams - Suicune swap Tyranitar)
- 20 wins (Messing around with random teams - Swampert swap Tyranitar)
- 38 wins (Realize that Tyranitar is probably still a better fit than Gyarados)
- 28 wins (Messing around with random teams - Skarmony swap Tyranitar)
- 37 wins (Triple critical hits from Heracross. That has got to be a first. But to be fair, Latias and Tyranitar is weak against bug to begin with. I can usually finish him off with Slaking double edge in first turn but somehow missed in the first turn)
- 52 wins (Regirock staller)

I have a brave nature Metagross still in my PC. And a Swarmpert (It didn't do as well in my trial run tho, maybe I don't know how to play it right. Should I just try to use those typical teams people use to clear battle tower? (Latios, Metagross, Swampert) Unfortunately, I don't have earthquake anymore for Metagross. I am considering getting an additional GBA and sapphire cart to trade.

Man it was really a struggle. I have already scanned through all the available docs/ guides online...I even looked at the trainer list for emerald (some are missing btw) How did you guys achieve your streaks? Is it a matter of trying 20-40 rounds or swapping things in and out? At this point I don't know if I should continue trying with the same team (Latias, Slaking, Tyranitar) or try to bring in something new.
 
Hello!

Due to covid, I find myself spending a lot of time at home. Was packing up my room when I found my old emerald GBA. When I opened it, I found a letter written 10 years ago, promising myself that I will conquer battle tower 1 day for at least the silver medal (50 wins) or Gold medal (100wins). These medals are for the secret base and not the golden symbols. I have all 7 silver symbols, with 1 gold in the dome. My previous record was 47, and I was able to push it to 48 this play through, but am generally still struggling to get at least 50 wins. Preferably I would like to get the golden symbol (70wins). Would appreciate some input here guys! I am focusing on open level, and have close to one full box of lv100 Pokemon.
Hey, welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing! Apologies in case you still have not received any feedback yet, so I'll try to do my best and help you on this.


Following the steps laid out by my 10 year old self, here are my leading pokemon:

Slaking
Nature: Adamant Item: Choice Band
252 ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Double Edge
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball
- Rock slide

Latias (From emerald, without the IV glitch in ruby or saphire)
Nature: Modest Item: Leftovers
252 SP ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Psychic
- Ice beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind

Tyranitar
Nature: Adamant Item: Chesto Berry
252 ATK / 252 SPE / 4 HP
- Earthquake
- Rock slide
- Rest
- Dragon dance

Gyarados
Nature: Adament Item: Chesto Berry
252 ATK / 252 SPD / 4 HP
- Earthquake
- Hyper beam
- Rest
- Dragon dance

Strategy:
Pretty self-explanatory: I lead with slaking to get to try a KO to make it 3-2, then swap into either 1 of my special or physical sweeper to set up depending on their resistance. Tyranitar or Gyarados will try to get a extra DD in with rest+chesto.

Dilemma:
Slaking and Latias have served me well and are pretty much locked for me. What is remaining is my 3rd slot. I use Tyranitar as his stats are better than Gyarados, but he creates x2 weakness for bug and fighting combined with Latias and Slaking. However, the moveset for Gyarados creates situations where I am walled by Gengar and ghost pokemon in general. I know hyper beam sucks, but with my internal battery dead and no additional GBA/cartridge, I have no access to return/double edge etc. I appreciate the intimidate by Gyarados but it somehow hasn't help me much, whereas the sandstream by Tyranitar can be a double edged sword. Any other suggestion would be appreciated!
I'd probably would say that Slaking is running decent moves although there could be some improvements. If you have a Level 100 Pickup Linoone in your Emerald game, there's a 1% chance of finding a TM26 which contains Earthquake. I'm not sure if you already used that TM but in case you haven't, I recommend using the cloning glitch, to its full extent, so you can duplicate its TM several times and keep some extras.

If you're willing to invest the effort on this, I'd recommend replacing Rock Slide with Earthquake on Slaking. Ground coverage is too important to miss out and it's the move that will allow Slaking to destroy Metagross, which is a Pokemon that laughs at Brick Break. Talking about Brick Break, it isn't a terrible move but when you consider that Hyper Beam exists, the coverage isn't really worth it. Hyper Beam is a nuke that will allow Slaking to heavily damage Blissey, Umbreon and other fat Pokemon.

On Tyranitar, I don't think Rest is a bad move but have you considered using Taunt over it? Taunt is a really neat move that will allow Tyranitar to soft-check Double Team spammers like Umbreon and Ludicolo while setting up safely. Take into account that in Gen 3, Taunt only lasts for the next turn, unlike the newer games where it can last up to 3-4 turns.

On Gyarados, Hyper Beam is not a really good choice and I have to say that a physical Gyarados will struggle without a STAB to use. Hyper Beam is also not a good choice to use as your "pseudo-STAB" due to the recharge turn. If you really value the Intimidate factor, I would strongly recommend to use Salamence. If you cannot RNG a good HP Flying on Gyarados, I'd recommend breeding a Salamence since it can use Aerial Ace (a move which will never miss) and it pretty much does the same a Dragon Dance attacker should do.

If you're looking for a Pokemon to use alongside Slaking and Latias, I think that Milotic will complement your team much better. I personally believe that any Gyarados without a form of Hidden Power STAB won't be successful, but Milotic will provide an Ice resist helping Latias while it is bulky enough from the special side to take hits.

Other EV trained Pokemon:
Scizor, Milotic, Suicune (lousy IV from firered), Heracross, Snorlax, Swampert, Porygon2, Skarmony, Hitmonlee (WHY 10 year old me!), Magmar (omg why did I waste so much time), Pikachu (with light ball), Sceptile with dragon claw

Other Non EV trained Pokemon:
Dragonite, Charizard, Genar, Rhydon, Articuno, Walrein, Houndoom, Tyranitar (another copy)

* I caught a shiny Poochyena while moving around trying to do stuff like finding heart scale etc!

* Will upload a photo of the letter from 10 years ago if I manage to get the gold symbol.
Would probably say that all the Pokemon you have EV trained are solid picks for Frontier. I would discourage using the Suicune since due to a known glitch, 4 of its stats are locked into 0 IVs. Cool Pokemon to use though, might not be terrible depending on the nature you have.

Scizor might be good if you're using a Baton Pass set. Milotic is the perfect bulky water to use over Suicune since at least you can get better IVs out from it. Heracross and Snorlax are two great Pokemon to use as physical attackers. Porygon2 and Skarm will be useful! Sceptile is the best grass type on this game, so you can't go wrong with it. I think that a solid addition to your pool would be Metagross. You would be surprised by how strong it can be when used with a Choice Band and it is arguably the best Steel type to use. Sorry if my post is not insightful enough since it was kind of late for me on the moment I wrote this review.
 
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Hi guys

i was thinking about building an open level battle tower team around this thing:

aerodactyl
Leftovers
ability: pressure
Jolly nature
252/0/4/0/0/252
Protect
Substitute
Torment
scary face(?)

I might link this one up with a setup sweeper like latios.

whats your thoughts on this, any ideas for team mates?
 
Hi guys

i was thinking about building an open level battle tower team around this thing:

aerodactyl
Leftovers
ability: pressure
Jolly nature
252/0/4/0/0/252
Protect
Substitute
Torment
scary face(?)

I might link this one up with a setup sweeper like latios.

whats your thoughts on this, any ideas for team mates?
If you completely want to go bonkers with PressureStall Aerodactyl, I recommend using the set from this post. It doesn't work on its own without support, however. You need a lead that preferably steals Quick Claws or handles the Quick Claw-holders in another fashion. Since Aerodactyl usually has no time to use Torment (and if it does, it typically doesn't need it), having Torment on your lead is a very nice idea. Other stuff this Aerodactyl struggles with are 4-move coverage special attackers (see the Latios, Starmie, etc. from the post), so ideally you have some kind of setup sweeper that either handles these on its own while setting up (e.g. Umbreon or Raikou), or your lead can cripple them.

The only real benefit of using an Aerodactyl like this is EQ immunity and the ability to outspeed Crobat with more bulk EVs if you wish, but in most cases Raikou is a far better fast Pressurestaller, since it has a great matchup against the blisteringly fast Jolteon-4 as well. Even slow Pressurestallers like Articuno or Suicune usually out-niche Aerodactyl it because their Substitutes don't break against a greater pool of attacks, and getting the Speed advantage can be done quite reliably with a good lead. Think of Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, String Shot and indeed, even Scary Face.

Nevertheless, Aerodactyl is pretty cool for resisting Double-Edge and being able to learn Torment itself. Don't overestimate its bulk though; even if you do end up using Torment, they'll usually take a good chunk of health before it can start SubTect stalling, and that's where you are vulnerable to critical hits and side effects.

If you want a decently reliable yet fast Pressure stall setup team, I would recommend either Suicune lead + fast DT Sub BP Zapdos + DDMence or a classic Pressure "meme" team consisting of Dusclops, Articuno and Suicune that submenceisop and I once constructed to achieve decent results. Good luck!
 
Hi guys

i was thinking about building an open level battle tower team around this thing:

aerodactyl
Leftovers
ability: pressure
Jolly nature
252/0/4/0/0/252
Protect
Substitute
Torment
scary face(?)

I might link this one up with a setup sweeper like latios.

whats your thoughts on this, any ideas for team mates?
I only think that Scary Face is the only wasted move on this set. 90% accuracy doesn't makes it worthwhile to drop the Speed stat against most foes that will be much more slower than Aerodactyl anyways and if you really want to abuse Pressure, there are much better moves that you can run on that 4th slot. You can probably run Taunt or even Rock Slide on that move slot since it will prevent Aerodactyl from being a sitting duck on the match. A good friend of mine, Thomaz did some experimentation with Aerodactyl before and it's a good Pokemon that can beat many sets that rely on a single super-effective move to hit it.

The biggest issue with using Aerodactyl though comes from the fact that its weaknesses are extremely common in Gen 3. Even if you try to find a Pokemon that can cover most of them, it's defensive typing is not really that good and it will overlap with one of your team members. The only Pokemon that has the best defensive synergy with Aerodactyl is Quagsire (which is mostly due to Water Absorb granting an immunity to Water), immune to Electric and it resists Steel & Rock.

As Actaeon mentioned, Aerodactyl will struggle against opponents like Starmie, Lati@s or Alakazam who can carry more than 2 super-effective moves to hit it. It's inferior to Moltres as a staller simply because unlike the fire bird, it can't recover its health. The weaknesses to Water, Electric and Ice alone is what makes Aerodactyl so difficult to use other than a niche Choice Bander who can at least score a decent amount of OHKOs.
 
I only think that Scary Face is the only wasted move on this set. 90% accuracy doesn't makes it worthwhile to drop the Speed stat against most foes that will be much more slower than Aerodactyl anyways and if you really want to abuse Pressure, there are much better moves that you can run on that 4th slot. You can probably run Taunt or even Rock Slide on that move slot since it will prevent Aerodactyl from being a sitting duck on the match. A good friend of mine, Thomaz did some experimentation with Aerodactyl before and it's a good Pokemon that can beat many sets that rely on a single super-effective move to hit it.

The biggest issue with using Aerodactyl though comes from the fact that its weaknesses are extremely common in Gen 3. Even if you try to find a Pokemon that can cover most of them, it's defensive typing is not really that good and it will overlap with one of your team members. The only Pokemon that has the best defensive synergy with Aerodactyl is Quagsire (which is mostly due to Water Absorb granting an immunity to Water), immune to Electric and it resists Steel & Rock.

As Actaeon mentioned, Aerodactyl will struggle against opponents like Starmie, Lati@s or Alakazam who can carry more than 2 super-effective moves to hit it. It's inferior to Moltres as a staller simply because unlike the fire bird, it can't recover its health. The weaknesses to Water, Electric and Ice alone is what makes Aerodactyl so difficult to use other than a niche Choice Bander who can at least score a decent amount of OHKOs.
Come to think of it, maybe it has a niche in the Battle Dome where it can literally outspeed every Pokemon that has no Quick Claw due to the reduced IVs of the opponents. This might also put it a position where its Substitutes can survive some coverage moves, and (again due to the reduced IVs) it might be able to sweep through Struggling opponents with the always-hitting Aerial Ace. Have a potential team member lead that can Torment + steal/knock off/phaze Quick Claws, and simply use Aerodactyl as the lead + a more dangerous setup sweeper if this isn't needed. Fun idea? I guess something like Protect/Substitute/AerialAce/(Whirlwind/Torment/Toxic/Flamethrower) could do the job.

Edit: A SubTect Curse Aerial Ace is also stupidly good I think. Outstall the first, setup with unbreakable subs against Struggle, then either OHKO the next or "slow-stall" the next opponent while avoiding QC shenanigans. They can never win a setup race this way, not even with Curse or Double Team, unless they are CurseSkarm, Registeel or Regirock maybe. But then they don't have Leftovers :)
 
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Hello there!

It's been a while since my last activity on these forums due to my burnout related to the games themselves, but I recently picked Emerald up again and have been working on achieving higher streaks with the teams I used the last times without much success. After some pretty bad attempts to go for higher streaks, I finally decided to start working on my own team to create for Battle Tower purposes. Since my knowledge is still fairly limited, I came here in order to hopefully get some helpful suggestions/feedback on how I could optimize my team.

So, here's what I was working on:

Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Toxic

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Blissey @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 168 SpD / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Growl

Since I really liked the concept of Kommo-o's Moltres team, I attempted to sort of go for the same thing, just in a more offensive fashion, so I decided to give CB Aerodactyl a shot and build a team around it. I had a hard time finding an at least somewhat suitable offensive partner for Aerodactyl that would synergize with it in terms of typing, so I tried to give CM Raikou a shot. Both of them tend to resist each others weakness fairly well and Raikou would be my main answer to bulky water types such as Vaporeon and Suicune which Aerodactyl would most likely struggle with. Since most of the defensive backbones fall flat due to having the same weaknesses, I decided to give Blissey a chance since it's the most versatile defensive Pokemon that would synergize with this team. I still have my doubts if this team would even properly work, as you can see I skipped most of the EV's since I'm not sure where to add them so they're not wasted.

https://pokepast.es/a5395f17dde255a0

I would be more than glad to receive suggestions on what to change about the EV investments, movesets or team members in order to get the most out of this team.
 
Hello there!

It's been a while since my last activity on these forums due to my burnout related to the games themselves, but I recently picked Emerald up again and have been working on achieving higher streaks with the teams I used the last times without much success. After some pretty bad attempts to go for higher streaks, I finally decided to start working on my own team to create for Battle Tower purposes. Since my knowledge is still fairly limited, I came here in order to hopefully get some helpful suggestions/feedback on how I could optimize my team.

So, here's what I was working on:

Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Toxic

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Blissey @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 168 SpD / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Growl

Since I really liked the concept of Kommo-o's Moltres team, I attempted to sort of go for the same thing, just in a more offensive fashion, so I decided to give CB Aerodactyl a shot and build a team around it. I had a hard time finding an at least somewhat suitable offensive partner for Aerodactyl that would synergize with it in terms of typing, so I tried to give CM Raikou a shot. Both of them tend to resist each others weakness fairly well and Raikou would be my main answer to bulky water types such as Vaporeon and Suicune which Aerodactyl would most likely struggle with. Since most of the defensive backbones fall flat due to having the same weaknesses, I decided to give Blissey a chance since it's the most versatile defensive Pokemon that would synergize with this team. I still have my doubts if this team would even properly work, as you can see I skipped most of the EV's since I'm not sure where to add them so they're not wasted.

https://pokepast.es/a5395f17dde255a0

I would be more than glad to receive suggestions on what to change about the EV investments, movesets or team members in order to get the most out of this team.
I'm not a fan of choice band users in the Tower. However, I have no experience using Aerodactyl, so I will let someone else suggest a better set. Although I'm pretty sure Toxic is suboptimal on Aerodactyl.

I do have experience using Raikou. I found it difficult to use, as the lack of recovery and inability to run mono electric made it require a lot of team support.

Adedede used to run a Raikou set with heavy bulk, on page 14. 220 HP/ 180 Special Defence/ 180 speed. This does make you significantly tankier, as your substitute can now tank a Psychic from Espeon. Unfortunately, you do not ko even Whiscash 4 @ +6.

Look @ this cursed calc.
+6 0 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 156-184 (84.3 - 99.4%)

Whiscash 4 is just one of the major ones with QC, lives a +6 hit and can ko you. Steelix, QC Snorlax, Swampert, Quagsire are others that are significant threats too.

I ran a different set, 92 HP/ 196 SpA, 180 speed/ Rest in Special Def. This set has the ability to ko Whiscash 4 and does have a noticeable power boost. Unfortunately, the lack of bulk is noticeable, as your substitutes can barely stay intact against weaker special attacks @ +1.

+6 196 SpA Raikou Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Whiscash: 185-218 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I also tried Raikou at Open Level. Raikou gets access to crunch, which helps, as the 80 BP instead of 70 BP, allows you to ko whiscash 4 with much less special attack investment. The most relevant number @ open level is 124 special attack evs, which gets up to QC Nidoking.

+6 124 SpA Raikou Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 366-431 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO- Open Level 100

Unfortunately, there's a big problem with Open Level. Tyranitar. Eternal sandstorm is a huge problem if you don't carry a weather changing move, as Raikou can't heal in sand. This is also a problem for Dragonite and every other sweeper relying on leftovers.

I won't take credit for this, but there's good sets for Blissey on the earlier pages. I prefer 106 speed Blissey personally, as the added speed and faster substitute is very valuable. 244 speed, 244 phys def /20 HP.

Other good benchmarks are 84 speed. 172 hp/ 252 def/ 84 speed. Gets up to Haxrein.

I wouldn't recommend s-toss on Blissey. Substitute is far too valuable for Blissey for stalling and protection against OHKO users.
 
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Hello there!

It's been a while since my last activity on these forums due to my burnout related to the games themselves, but I recently picked Emerald up again and have been working on achieving higher streaks with the teams I used the last times without much success. After some pretty bad attempts to go for higher streaks, I finally decided to start working on my own team to create for Battle Tower purposes. Since my knowledge is still fairly limited, I came here in order to hopefully get some helpful suggestions/feedback on how I could optimize my team.

So, here's what I was working on:

Aerodactyl @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Toxic

Raikou @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

Blissey @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Def / 168 SpD / 84 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Growl

Since I really liked the concept of Kommo-o's Moltres team, I attempted to sort of go for the same thing, just in a more offensive fashion, so I decided to give CB Aerodactyl a shot and build a team around it. I had a hard time finding an at least somewhat suitable offensive partner for Aerodactyl that would synergize with it in terms of typing, so I tried to give CM Raikou a shot. Both of them tend to resist each others weakness fairly well and Raikou would be my main answer to bulky water types such as Vaporeon and Suicune which Aerodactyl would most likely struggle with. Since most of the defensive backbones fall flat due to having the same weaknesses, I decided to give Blissey a chance since it's the most versatile defensive Pokemon that would synergize with this team. I still have my doubts if this team would even properly work, as you can see I skipped most of the EV's since I'm not sure where to add them so they're not wasted.

https://pokepast.es/a5395f17dde255a0

I would be more than glad to receive suggestions on what to change about the EV investments, movesets or team members in order to get the most out of this team.
Some of the EVs are botched, but I do have some few suggestions on some of the Pokemon:

:aerodactyl:
On Aerodactyl, I think that Pressure should only be used on a pure stalling set and I wouldn't use it on one that focuses more on offense. You'll mostly want to abuse Pressure because you'll find opportunities to stall your opponent and let another teammate set up on it. The first change would be changing its Ability from Pressure to Rock Head and then replace Toxic with Double Edge. Rock Head provides much more on the offensive side of the spectrum and Toxic feels like a very wasted move on a frail Pokemon like Aerodactyl. Double Edge gives you a much more powerful "pseudo-STAB" than what HP Rock can deal (105 power [with STAB bonus] vs 120 power against neutral targets). It will hit targets such as Blissey much more harder than any of its other moves without the recoil penalty.

:raikou:
On Raikou I'm not too sure on the EV spread you're doing? I've used: 94 HP / 236 SpA / 180 Spe with some good success. 94 HP makes your HP stat equal to 177 which will give you that magic leftovers number + 1 meaning that you can set up a 5th Substitute instead of 4. The rest goes into Special Attack allowing you to deal as much damage as possible.

:blissey:
I like where the team is going and I don't really have a suggestion for Blissey. HeadsILoseTailsYouWin often suggested Brightpowder on the Discord for really good reason. Blissey's bulk is so ridiculous that Blissey can actually afford to run it and somewhat abuse it.

1623552853600.png

I think Growl is out of place on this team and maybe you can afford running Substitute instead of it. I don't agree with removing Seismic Toss since it is Blissey's most consistent way of doing damage. I'd probably would say that a Toxic Substaller would be really interesting and Blissey can take advantage of the missed attacks and Substitute safely while stalling out the opponent.

I don't really have more suggestions other than encouraging you to play it! I'm not a big Aerodactyl fan due to how difficult it is to balance defensively, but this can somewhat work. Hope this advice helps you!
 
submenceisop Kommo-o

I thank you both for your suggestions!

I noticed that I forgot to edit the post to adjust the change from Pressure -> Rock Head on Aerodactyl and Toxic -> Double Edge, after seeing that 2 Toxic users would be a waste of a moveslot I reconsidered my decision. I was mainly struggling with the EV investment on this team. Since the EV investment Blissey had on the Moltres team was working incredibly well, I decided to just copy it over since I don't know if it requires changes for this specific team. I guess 252 Atk / 180 Spe on Aerodactyl seems fine so far? I suppose those are the EV's that are pretty obvious since 180 Spe gives it the magic speed number 173 to outspeed 95% of the Frontier Pokemon, and 252 Atk on a CB user that aims for as many OHKO's as possible seems like a good investment. Though I'm not sure where to spend the rest of the EV's for Aerodactyl, maybe there are a few ways to invest them to get some blessed defensive damage calcs? I would be more than happy to receive a suggestion on where to invest the remaining EV points.

If you think these team members would synergize well together with updated movesets and EV's, I would be more than willing to give it a go to see how it performs in general.
 
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Thought I might as well make my first post here on the forum official by saying how happy I am to see my favorite generation still getting love. I hang out in the discord server, but I'm always lurking here on the thread watching the teams be posted to help with my ideas. Its just great to know that even a game as old as Emerald can still get so much appreciation and how we can still learn more and more about the mon's and how to make em go farther in the facilities.

I dont have anything to post rn, but trust me I will try to take a crack at the leaderboards sometime. Rn doing lots of breeding and some Arena on the side in one of my Emeralds before I go back to my true home, the Battle Tower. Planning on finally using some Heracross in it, so hopefully will be able to report a nice streak for it soon once I figure out the rest of the team for it. Anyways I hope to also brainstorm, test, come up with weird shit for teams and have fun with y'all in all of the battle facilities in Emerald.
 
submenceisop Kommo-o

I thank you both for your suggestions!

I noticed that I forgot to edit the post to adjust the change from Pressure -> Rock Head on Aerodactyl and Toxic -> Double Edge, after seeing that 2 Toxic users would be a waste of a moveslot I reconsidered my decision. I was mainly struggling with the EV investment on this team. Since the EV investment Blissey had on the Moltres team was working incredibly well, I decided to just copy it over since I don't know if it requires changes for this specific team. I guess 252 Atk / 180 Spe on Aerodactyl seems fine so far? I suppose those are the EV's that are pretty obvious since 180 Spe gives it the magic speed number 173 to outspeed 95% of the Frontier Pokemon, and 252 Atk on a CB user that aims for as many OHKO's as possible seems like a good investment. Though I'm not sure where to spend the rest of the EV's for Aerodactyl, maybe there are a few ways to invest them to get some blessed defensive damage calcs? I would be more than happy to receive a suggestion on where to invest the remaining EV points.

If you think these team members would synergize well together with updated movesets and EV's, I would be more than willing to give it a go to see how it performs in general.
I think it's a decent Speed tier assuming there is some sort of defensive calc that will allow Aerodactyl to survive a SE hit or something. You can't go wrong with 252 Speed either since it speed ties with the Crobat sets.
 
Alright, I applied the suggested changes to the individual Pokemon and this is the result: https://pokepast.es/4f24b88527c8f096

It looks like a solid prototype team, though I'm not 100% sold on Aerodactyl at the moment, seeing that it's lacking physical power / strong stab moves makes it miss out on many OHKO's against strong physical hitters that could pose to be a threat to this team. Though maybe I'm just not seeing it's potential yet, I guess I'll have to see it in action first in order that judge it properly.
 
Just ended a streak of 378 on Level 50 Battle Tower Doubles! I used pkhex to get the mons so not leaderboard eligible (I don't have the patience haha), but figured I'd document it. This team is heavily inspired by Ab2658's successful doubles team.

:rs/latias:
Latias @ Cheri Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 12 SpD / 180 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Toxic
- Psychic

I was immediately drawn to Ab2658's team because I love Latias and this seemed like a great format for her to shine. I can't imagine what more you'd want out of a screen setter—she's fast, tanky, and has a nontrivial offensive presence. Toxic is an absolute lifesaver against most double team cheese. Calm nature can be pretty great, but I did occasionally find myself wishing it were Timid to get the edge on Gengar (Psychic is a OHKO on the 7/8 Gengar sets, and Gengar1 is not threatening). The Cheri Berry came in handy a few times, but Latias defnintely wishes she had the Lum berry or perhaps even the Leftovers a lot of the time since she tends to take so many hits.

:rs/tauros:
Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 244 Atk / 8 SpD / 180 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Return
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]

Really fun to use. Initmidate + screens makes Tauros actually able to sponge some hits. Tauros reaches the coveted 168 speed stat to outspeed Starmie and Raikou, and threatens most varinats with OHKOs. Only ever used HP Ghost a couple times for a clean kill on Gengars. I didn't realize until like battle 50 that Earthquake's damage is not nerfed in double battles in gen III, and was very confused why the damage calcs I was doing weren't lining up lol. After I realized that, I started clicking it a lot more frequently. With the weird gen III instant swaps in doubles, it's important to manage your sacks so you don't end up in a spot where Tauros is not locked into Earthquake and have Metagross enter the field.

:rs/latios:
Latios (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Claw
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Protect

No surprise here. I was sceptical about stacking weaknesses with Latias at first, but both are so good that it never really seemed to matter. I followed Ab2658 and went for Modest (with lower speed EVs to hit 159), but I think if I were to try again I would use Timid so I just didn't have to worry about Gengar/Starmie as much. The OHKO on Salamence and friends is nice, though. I kept forgetting that I had Protect and as a result didn't use it very often, but I can see it's utility. I ended up not pivoting with Latios very ovten since it's pretty frail, and a crit on the switch in can be a big problem. One exception is when there's a mon that knows Earthquake with an immune partner, since the AI loves to spam it, even occasionally if you have two levitators out.

:rs/metagross:
Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 156 Atk / 188 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Earthquake
- Shadow Ball
- Aerial Ace

Metagross has great type synergy with the Latis. With screens and lefties it shrugs off so many attacks. I was accidentally using a Jolly Metagross at a similar speed tier that had straight up inferior stats until like battle 200 when I realized that Adamant would let me squeeze out a couple extra stat points, oops lol. A strong steel stab is nice on a team with many ice weaknesses. Earthquake is pretty standard. Shadow Ball is nice for opposing Lati@s and the ghosts that Tauros can't well. Aerial Ace gives me peace of mind against double team spam if Latias isn't able to toxic them.

The Regis are all pretty awkard to deal with. They're all immune to intimidate, could have Counter or Explosion, can't be OHKO'd by any of my mons. Regice threatens the Latis with STAB Ice moves & freezes. Registeel likes Double Team spam, but unlike most evaision hax mons can't be Toxic'd. 3/6 Regirock sets have Explosion, which KOs Latias & Tauros through Reflect, but switching in Metagross could mean eating an Earthquake.

As is often the case, I don't have great counterplay to Quick Claw/Brightpowder OHKO users. Some can be downed turn 1 by a double-up with Latias + Tauros, but obviously this can go awry if their item procs. Usually I opted for attack with Tauros + Screen to make sure I had some insurance against their partner. Lapras/Walrein also threaten big damage and freeze with ice type moves.

If Tauros goes down, fast threats like Starmie are not fun to deal with. If Latias is down (which didn't happen very often), then some double team spammers can snowball quickly.

In the end, I lost in a pretty lame way. Sailor Peter sent out a Lapras and Slowking. I used Double Edge on Lapras and Light Screen Turn 1 since Lapras could carry an OHKO move, but it turned out to be Lapras1 and Slowking2. They spread Attract, Confusion, Sleep, and Paralysis everywhere. Medicham and Machamp were in the back, and scored some crits while my team burned turns with self-hits and full paralysis.


This is the farthest streak I've ever gotten in any gen, and I had a lot of luck carry me through some tight situations. Kind of relieved it's over now though so I can try new teams with less standard pokmeon :)
 
Do you guys think Quagsire has a niche in the battle frontier? It was listed on the Viability Rankings on page 18, and I think it has potential as a mimic of Swampert that can take on bulky waters better. I'm not sure to what degree it's worth using over pert tho.
 
Do you guys think Quagsire has a niche in the battle frontier? It was listed on the Viability Rankings on page 18, and I think it has potential as a mimic of Swampert that can take on bulky waters better. I'm not sure to what degree it's worth using over pert tho.
On my previous experiences using Quagsire, I tried to use to complement Moltres since it resisted every type it was weak to. I mostly did it out of memes just for a good friend of mine. However, I have to say that Quagsire is a very underwhelming Pokemon. You basically trade Swampert's superior BST for a Water immunity and it doesn't really makes the exchange worth it.

One thing I noticed is that Quagsire is extremely vulnerable to critical hits. Unlike the newer games, Quagsire doesn't has any kind of recovery which makes it reliant on Rest to work into. This means that threats like Starmie who have a 2nd STAB to use against Quagsire, will be able to beat it with a critical hit which makes stalling a lot harder. While Quagsire is almost as bulky as Swampert is from the physical side, it's Special Defense is abysmal and you'll have to invest into it to live some attacks. Also, it's offensive stats are underwhelming, which will make it even hard to kill x4 weak stuff to its attacks (Base 85 SpA vs Base 65 SpA / Base 110 Atk vs Base 85 Atk). You'll finding yourself needing investment to 2HKO certain Pokemon (Just to give you an idea, an uninvested Earthquake doesn't even guarantees a 2HKO against 170 HP Metagross).

While Swampert has similar issues when it comes to the preservation of their health, Quagsire's inferior BST holds him back to the point where Water Absorb makes it really hard to justify its niche. It's vulnerable to crits which means that Water types that have a secondary STAB to hit it like Starmie and Lapras can walk past it with some luck. It isn't strong enough to 2HKO certain threats and needs some investment to do which will force you to think really hard on how you want to split your EVs. Swampert can at least split its investment without being conditioned to do something because it can invest on a really decent amount of Attack or Special Attack while still retaining most of its bulk. Swampert can take more damage from both sides of the spectrum and retaliate hard. Base 110 Attack is really good, even without investment, which makes a more defensive role still viable.

Personally I believe its niche is extremely low and Actaeon proposed an interesting role but if you're expecting Quagsire to do the same stuff Swampert does as a mixed bulky attacker, you will find yourself extremely disappointed.
 
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On my previous experiences using Quagsire, I tried to use to complement Moltres since it resisted every type it was weak to. I mostly did it out of memes just for a good friend of mine. However, I have to say that Quagsire is a very underwhelming Pokemon. You basically trade Swampert's superior BST for a Water immunity and it doesn't really makes the exchange worth it.

One thing I noticed is that Quagsire is extremely vulnerable to critical hits. Unlike the newer games, Quagsire doesn't has any kind of recovery which makes it reliant on Rest to work into. This means that threats like Starmie who have a 2nd STAB to use against Quagsire, will be able to beat it with a critical hit which makes stalling a lot harder. While Quagsire is almost as bulky as Swampert is from the physical side, it's offensive stats are underwhelming, which will make it even hard to kill x4 weak stuff to its attacks (Base 85 SpA vs Base 65 SpA / Base 110 Atk vs Base 85 Atk). You'll finding yourself needing investment to 2HKO certain Pokemon (Just to give you an idea, an uninvested Earthquake doesn't even guarantees a 2HKO against 170 HP Metagross).

While Swampert has similar issues when it comes to the preservation of their health, Quagsire's inferior BST holds him back to the point where Water Absorb makes it really hard to justify its niche. It's vulnerable to crits which means that Water types that have a secondary STAB to hit it like Starmie and Lapras can walk past it with some luck. It isn't strong enough to 2HKO certain threats and needs some investment to do which will force you to think really hard on how you want to split your EVs. Swampert can at least split its investment without being conditioned to do something because it can invest on a really decent amount of Attack or Special Attack while still retaining most of its bulk. Swampert can take more damage from both sides of the spectrum and retaliate hard. Base 110 Attack is really good, even without investment, which makes a more defensive role still viable.

Personally I believe its niche is extremely low and Actaeon proposed an interesting role but if you're expecting Quagsire to do the same stuff Swampert does as a mixed bulky attacker, you will find yourself extremely disappointed.
I see.... def a shame. Even bigger shame that it doesn't get encore nor recover this gen, cause both would be really cool
 
I see. I unfortunately don't have colosseum, so if I wanna use Suicune, I have to settle with bad IVs.
Its a shame that FRLG doesn't have the battle tower glitch like RS where you could get a better IV roamer, or even a battle tower in general. Just keep in mind the Suicune will get you to some good point in a streak, but maybe not as far as you would want it to. Like Once the AIs mons start scaling up their IVs you will notice your Suicune start to lag behind them. If you want you could possibly use a Milotic as a replacement for Suicune since you dont have access to good IVs via Colo, just as a possible suggestion. That is if you know where your feebas tiles are and got the time to train one up. Its no Suicune, but Milotic is still an amazing Pokemon in itself. And if you dont have your Feebas tiles found, it just means an afternoon or night fishing each tile 5ish times until you find one.
Its up to you, but I wouldn't suggest using a FRLG roamer for streaks, it will just end up being a detriment to you in the long run imo. But if you do go with the FRLG Suicune I will be interested in seeing how far it gets non the less. I wish you luck tho :blobthumbsup:
 
Its a shame that FRLG doesn't have the battle tower glitch like RS where you could get a better IV roamer, or even a battle tower in general. Just keep in mind the Suicune will get you to some good point in a streak, but maybe not as far as you would want it to. Like Once the AIs mons start scaling up their IVs you will notice your Suicune start to lag behind them. If you want you could possibly use a Milotic as a replacement for Suicune since you dont have access to good IVs via Colo, just as a possible suggestion. That is if you know where your feebas tiles are and got the time to train one up. Its no Suicune, but Milotic is still an amazing Pokemon in itself. And if you dont have your Feebas tiles found, it just means an afternoon or night fishing each tile 5ish times until you find one.
Its up to you, but I wouldn't suggest using a FRLG roamer for streaks, it will just end up being a detriment to you in the long run imo. But if you do go with the FRLG Suicune I will be interested in seeing how far it gets non the less. I wish you luck tho :blobthumbsup:
Thanks for the response! The roamers bug is a real shame, really wanted to use Raikou, who is prolly affected even more badly by the bug. My next targets for a team would prolly be moltres, tho I feel like it would be lackluster if I'm not using rng manip as not having hp grass would be really bad vs water types, a very dominant type in the frontier. My next target after that is prolly aerodactyl, and gengar is definitely a big one

edit: I might also just say fuck it and go with FRLG Suicune purely for the challenge. Compared to a perfect iv Suicune, its base stats are about 100/x/100/75/100/75 which honestly, isn't that bad but it's still not great

also, do you guys have any good ideas for choice band aerodactyl team mates?
 
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