Gen III Battle Frontier Discussion and Records

[submenceisop]

Nice one, bro. I am surprised how well you did with Scizor because like you said mixed punches and fast special sweepers can be deadly. I run Starmie/Salamence and I have been getting real unlucky but the two work wonders together so I know I will get Gold symbol with these alone. Have you tried Scope Lens/Lansat Berry Starmie? I have because Salac/Petaya berry are out of reach and was wondering if you found crucial critical hits Starmie can score OHKOs with useful. Brightpowder is fine and like Scope Lens gives you that extra chance to hit for more damage you would expect. I have made up for time with Mysticwater myself but I feel after 50 battles or so it's probably not as effective as a hax item would be.

Arena is about team selection and order and I run a Latias in my third slot because Ice-type moves that do knock Salamence out are set up bait for Calm Mind sweepers. This is what I am trying and bar unreal luck, I am well on my way. My record is 53 right now so I wasn't far off but there's always that chance you get that Electabuzz or Alakazam leads that can take out Starmie, Salamence and even your Scizor but you managed to avoid such, where as myself I get these leads and have to set up with Latias after they take out two/thirds of my team.

I congratulate you on your gold symbol and avoiding elemental punches :)

Just recently, I lost to some Brightpowder, Electric-type, which evaded all my attacks from turn 1 with Double Team, and win judges decisions taking my run back to 0.

Thanks! I tried bright powder and scope lens in the earlier stages for Starmie, but it never really came into play often. Starmie either faints or gets walled, so getting it down to 25% for lansat would be rare. I decided I rather have the consistent effect of boosted surfs, but maybe you want the potential miss or potential crit. It's definitely your own preference. I actually lost twice before reaching 83, both around 40 ish, to Electabuzz and registeel with t-bolt and ice punch, so I wasn't completely lucky. But I definitely agree that the timing of when you face threats like electabuzz/zam/gengar plays a huge part in potential losses. I found that if you don't run into something with elemental coverage (ice/electric/fire), it's sweep city with this team. Had a couple close calls against Snorlax too with the curse set and the double team set. If I had heracross in that slot instead of Scizor like most people, I probably lose those, because by the time Scizor comes out, Lax has a couple of evasion or defense boosts. Thankfully, Scizor can SD up and deal enough damage to win by decision or a timely crit.

I actually lost my 84th match ALL TO DECISIONS. A little salty about that, but I'll upload it. It's my fault for forgetting to change the order for that battle. I also changed my scizor from wing attack to hp ground, which left me walled by gengar. I probably could have had steel wing/wing attack in the last slot, because agility wasn't all that useful anyway. I also debated between running two dragons as well, but I decided that I didn't want 2 dragon/ice weaknesses.

I don't love set up in this format, mainly because of the decision format and potential hax. Three turns isn't long enough for multiple set ups and I find Latias lacks the oomph before multiple boosts. I prefer Latios for this reason.
If I were to try again, I would experiment with Gengar lead with explosion/d-bond. With a combo of Latios/Salamence+ Metagross/Scizor/Heracross. I also love the idea of Regice with rest/t-bolt/icebeam/-twave with chesto berry, but don't know how to fit it. Maybe as the lead instead of Gengar.
Congratuations to you too! Good luck.
https://kapwi.ng/c/UmUZphXe
- Greta 84 loss
Looking back, I still had a chance had my Salamence not hit itself before Umbreon used rest. It would have koed the gengar and Breloom. Wow. Confusion, hypnosis landing with 2 turn sleep. Robbed.

 

[Taylor]

Thanks! I tried bright powder and scope lens in the earlier stages for Starmie, but it never really came into play often. Starmie either faints or gets walled, so getting it down to 25% for lansat would be rare. I decided I rather have the consistent effect of boosted surfs, but maybe you want the potential miss or potential crit. It's definitely your own preference. I actually lost twice before reaching 83, both around 40 ish, to Electabuzz and registeel with t-bolt and ice punch, so I wasn't completely lucky. But I definitely agree that the timing of when you face threats like electabuzz/zam/gengar plays a huge part in potential losses. I found that if you don't run into something with elemental coverage (ice/electric/fire), it's sweep city with this team. Had a couple close calls against Snorlax too with the curse set and the double team set. If I had heracross in that slot instead of Scizor like most people, I probably lose those, because by the time Scizor comes out, Lax has a couple of evasion or defense boosts. Thankfully, Scizor can SD up and deal enough damage to win by decision or a timely crit.

I actually lost my 84th match ALL TO DECISIONS. A little salty about that, but I'll upload it. It's my fault for forgetting to change the order for that battle. I also changed my scizor from wing attack to hp ground, which left me walled by gengar. I probably could have had steel wing/wing attack in the last slot, because agility wasn't all that useful anyway. I also debated between running two dragons as well, but I decided that I didn't want 2 dragon/ice weaknesses.

I don't love set up in this format, mainly because of the decision format and potential hax. Three turns isn't long enough for multiple set ups and I find Latias lacks the oomph before multiple boosts. I prefer Latios for this reason.
If I were to try again, I would experiment with Gengar lead with explosion/d-bond. With a combo of Latios/Salamence+ Metagross/Scizor/Heracross. I also love the idea of Regice with rest/t-bolt/icebeam/-twave with chesto berry, but don't know how to fit it. Maybe as the lead instead of Gengar.
Congratuations to you too! Good luck.

I considered Twistedspoon for that extra boost and going for Special Defense drops vs. bulky Normal-types as well but you were right with Mysticwater being the best option for a solid run to get a good streak going. You need that power vs. Registeel/Metagross. Yes Snorlax can Quick Claw faint your pokemon, evade your attack or set up so I can see why you had problems with that, I just got lucky vs. one because Fly on Salamence allowed me to waste a turn, sort've acting like a makeshift Protect. Scizor's Steel-typing playing a critical role in type synergy and I have played with that third slot, and Latios is better for this team for sure.

You can run Metagross/Salamence/Latios I think because you first have your bulky lead that goes down to attacks Salamence can deal with, hit anything that dealt a critical Earthquake. Lastly, your Intimdate from Salamence who say happens to lose to something Latios can deal with would allow you to Calm Mind turn one and go to town.

Perhaps Gengar offensively can work with Explosion / Fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunderbolt and folow up with either Latios/Starmie to hopefully clean most teams. Together they should take down anything and from there Salamence could take any bulky threat that walled them?

edit: yeah decisions called badly suck :)

I GOT 63RD WIN AND ARENAS GOLD SYMBOL FINALLY I CAN MOVE ON TO NEXT FACILITY! :)

 

[Eisenherz]

So I was inquiring about the history of Gen 3 streaks in the Discord server earlier today, and some people mentioned mysterious records by a French user that goes by mystic251. A link to the person's blog in French was dropped, and what I found in there was... interesting? That person has delved very deep into theories that may or may not be rooted in actual game mechanics (I'll let others discuss that because I have very little experience with Gens 3 and 4). In any case, I thought it would be worth translating his blog and post it here for anyone curious about the inner workings of someone with, apparently, several records for those facilities?

He has 2 posts regarding this, one is a long introduction that ends with how he got into the battle facilities and his "%C" theory, and the second details his theories. I'll break down the second post into smaller sections because it's very long, and he doesn't use paragraphs, but rather uses a new line for every sentence. The posts, even in French, contain a lot of puzzling sentences and has typos and grammatical errors all over, so if some things sound curious here, there's a good chance it sounded just as curious in the original post (though it's a quick translation job so it's certainly not perfect).

Introduction

We are in 2004, I sign up on the Pokémania forum, I remain there for months, and one day, I see the thread “how many hall of fames do you have?”.
Well, I don’t remember if that was exactly the title, but you get it.
I boot up my console, and look for the 2nd time ever at the hall of fame screen on Sapphire.
It shows 746… Whoa, I had no idea how many I had done, and I hadn’t even wondered.
The last time I looked at it, it was for my first hall of fame, July 28th 2003.
I simply post my number on the forum, but of course, they didn’t believe me at first.
It’s understandable, we’re in 2004, “scording[?]” was VERY limited, even non-existent, since I’m the one who started the trend.
I confirmed it was true, and they asked me to post a picture.
I didn’t know of any server or hosting service.
Achamo, a member of the forum whom I got along well with, gave me a link to Skyblog.
You can imagine the rest I guess, I posted the picture of my trainer card, and as my 2nd post, the hall of fame screen.
I posted the picture, they believed me, and then asked how I did it.
I explained the principle of Talking, at the time it didn’t have a name, so they told me I should give it one, just to know what we’re talking about.
The “you know the method used to train pokémon to lv 100 thanks to the exp share” wasn’t practical at all.
Since I was the one who discovered it, they said I should name it.
I said Talking randomly, and it doesn’t have much to do with the method, but hey, I was only 15, and my English wasn’t very good.
It comes from the move Sleep Talk (Blabla Dodo in French), a move that allows you to move while you sleep.
In Talking, you can play while you do other things, but I didn’t know what the English word meant.
And there you have it, the blog was born, and so was Talking.
Sadly, the forum died in 2005, so I searched for another…
I went to Pokélord, their way of working was a little weird, and I didn’t like it.
So I left, but a player from Pokélord followed me on Skyrock.
You probably guessed it, that was Fireruby.
He’s the one who introduced me to the website ShinyHunters, and just a week later, the forum of that website opens.
I sign up… ugh, we’re only three. lulz
Link Elfe and Chiwigum. Others came after, like Aquathan or Nosfrat.
I already knew about shinies, since I had 3 at the time.
My Crobat, a Tentacruel and a traded Exploud, and a few days later, I encountered a Spheal.
You could say this shiny hunting forum brought me luck, since it came really fast.
After the first shiny capture of the forum, I made a new topic to express my joy, and a member had the idea of creating a topic for all new catches, but with time, I don’t remember at all who that was.
Emerald releases, I find a shiny Mightyena, and of course, the Battle Frontier.
I liked that thing, but I wasn’t at the same level I’m at now, and I wasn’t getting many achievements there, so I kept going with Talks.
One day, a dude comes see me, Drax.
He came from the Pokémon Challenge forum, Dark Raikou’s website.
He tells me about the team of an American player, Tang.
A group of players that played together.
Tang, the best of the group, asked Drax to come see me.
He wanted me in his team, because I was in good relation with the players, my TC/Talks attracted attention, and he needed a “poster boy” for the group.
That’s right, PvP players weren’t really popular at the time…
We made a deal.
He taught me to play, and I joined his group.
The undefeated PSC player didn’t anticipate that I would end up surpassing him.
Years pass, and I simply feel like moving on to other things.
I leave the group in November 2008, after being there for 2 and a half years (Yumut, Prixma and Sparda followed).
I decided to take back the Groupe Béa and to stop PvP.
There comes a time when one must move on.
It’s way too time-consuming, and since I wasn’t motivated anymore, it transpired to my plays, I prefer playing casually at home, especially since Tang told me about %C.
Just like Talking, this method had no name, I gave it one.
Traditionally, in 2008, we only exchanged Pokémon 2 or 3 times for attempt.
It made for results like my 413 BTS at the time, or the small 518 in BTD.
Good, but I went further, and found that it was more beneficial to entirely change the team every round.
It worked better, but haxx really limited our record attempts…
I did some UU, to get into the habit of being more careful of my plays, and in the end, it turned out that the “luck formula” of the AI was calculated according to the stats of the team.
And there, I finally understood how it had to be played.
%C wasn’t a must, since strong Pokémon destroy through everything, except in the case of haxx, but with this, it becomes completely logical that it got introduced in the game.
It’s well thought, except, low BST Pokémon aren’t always bad for fighting, for example Smeargle.
From 2008 to 2015, I dedicated myself to records in the Battle Frontier, and I keep great memory from it.

%C

Some explanations on %C
You know the Battle Tower, I suppose?
Fighting AI using 3 Pokémon of level 50 or 100.
The game in the eyes of beginner players for singles is to take a team of 3 Pokémon of the facility’s level (50 if you picked 50, 100 if 100).
The first goal is to get 100 wins to get an additional star on the Trainer Card.
Sure, but then what?
If you haven’t lost, you can keep going, from 105 to 112, then from 112 to 119.
It’s basic plays.
We can go a bit further.
Take 3 very strong Pokémon that are effective on as many possible Pokémon in the Tower to get a better streak.
Yeah that’s an idea, but that remains novice-level, because there’s too much randomness.
Back to the 105-112 example, we can observe some Pokémon appear more often than others, but in 112-119, “I feel like it’s a little different”.
That’s right, the percentage of chance for certain Pokémon to show up in 105-112 could be completely different from 112-119.
So, instead of taking 3 ferocious beasts that can beat about everything in theory, you can take 3 different Pokémon, that counter less generic threats, but that target the specific list in which you are, for example 133-140.
“There aren’t many changes, it really is just details”. When starting, sure, certain Pokémons’ percentage rate of showing up rise or go down very slowly. That’s so the player can play in a traditional way without being bothered by the programming.
Then, when you get to a certain number, the difference between 2 stretches can be night and day.
And you can know, “before even going”, before even trying.
“I often see Ninetales, followed by Arcanine or Blaziken”.
Yes, the Pokémon also have a certain symbiotic relation.
To sum up, every stretch has certain odds to encounter specific trainers, and every trainer has certain odds to encounter specific Pokémon.
For example, Axel the Dragon Tamer can use Tyranitar and Latias, but not Latios in this one stretch, but Latios will be included in very high odds in another.
However, our dear Axel will never be able to use Flareon, in no list whatsoever.
Of course, he’s a Dragon Tamer, not a Gentleman!
To benefit from this system, one needs to make a list of Trainers and Pokémon that show up, but differentiate between the different series [stretches].
For example, you can’t take the list of 252-259 to play 259-266.
So if you play a lot, you know what you’re about to get, and you can raise the streak little by little.
Not bad, right? I love this way of playing.
“I can’t get good streaks, incredible stuff always happens to me, like Fissure + Quick Claw…”
Just imagine, we know what we’re about to face, it would be way too easy to take strong stuff against stupid AIs…
That’s right, if it wasn’t of that, we could easily top the counter at 9999.
Nintendo thought about that and made sure it wasn’t possible.
Yeah but that’s still frustrating, isn’t it? We can’t get further because of pre-programmed “bad luck” in the game.
Nintendo once again thought of that.
The AI’s luck is calculated from the total stat points of your team. (The name of this method is: ACH = Automatic critical hits / AHI = Automatic haxx items)
Basically, when you use big bad guys, you improve the odds of getting beat down.
“Sure, I can take weaker Pokémon, but how can I play them against the AI’s Pokémon, that have the base stats of the Pokémon I was previously using?”
Do you remember? I said the odds of encountering certain Pokémon change depending on stretches.
Some Pokémon are OU (OverUsed), others are UU (UnderUsed), or NU (NeverUsed).
I’m summarizing, you know!… There’s a lot more nuance than this, for example some middle+ and middle-.
In any case, there are some Pokémon with high odds of showing up, others have lower odds, and others none at all (0%).
You need to take into account all Trainers of the stretch you’re in, all the Pokémon also, and look for the flaws.
Every Pokémon has its weaknesses, and even with a weaker Pokémon, if you play with this in mind, you win anyway.
It’s very hard to build something that works well, especially when it’s only for 7 Trainers.
Then, you get the idea, you change the team, and you do it all over again.

WiFi Battle Tower

The WiFi Battle Tower (DPPt)
Playing against other human player’s Pokémon, but they’re used by the AI.
There’s no %C, so how can we get a good streak?
It’s exactly the same as in singles.
By using weaker Pokémon, you get less bad luck, and to know what Pokémon you’ll face, you can play with 2 games.
In the first, you look at the 7 trainers registered in the room, and with the second, you beat them down!
Use quiet rooms with few people, you can often get 7 times the same person, so it’s very easy compared to traditional Battle Tower.

Smeargle in the Battle Hall

Smeargle in BH (Battle Hall)
That’s right! A beginner would find it laughable, but it’s the best Pokémon to use for this facility. It has an infinite movepool, it’s very strong but has low stats, so for ACH/AHI (Automatic critical hits/haxx items), it’s a very good return on investment.
What’s more, at 950, Smeargle’s list remains blocked on the previous, you always get the same thing, and there are many Pokémon with 0%.

Battle Factory

Battle Factory
“I can’t use my own Pokémon, how can I use %C?”
As you know, the AI decides the Pokémon it’ll use based on your current streak, but there’s also the number of trades in the factory.
The game will base itself off of this for the Pokémon you’ll be able to select:
WS = Opponent’s Pokémon, and R/T = Yours.
Technically, it’s very difficult.

Multi Link

Multi Link
%C is a bit different in this kind of facility.
To begin with, the way fighting works is different.
There are 2 trainers, one side for each, if one of the 2 doesn’t have anymore Pokémon but the other still has 2, they won’t send anymore from their side.
Trainer #1 will use the stretch list of Player 1, and the 2nd, Player 2.
How to capitalize on it?
You use an “official” cartridge where you want the final score to show up, and 2 other cartridges.
On the first, you achieve the streak, on the 2 others, you can keep going to get desired Pokémon, or simply the other way around, for the same reason.
The 2nd Trainer is therefore customizable as much as you want (at least from the trainers available in the game), but don’t hope to always get stuff like Natu with the 2nd Trainer, because difficulty is regulated by the cycles (not to mix up with the cycles of BW, it’s the same name for a very different thing).
This method isn’t used a lot, because it’s really too difficult technically, and it’s very time-consuming.

Decentralization bug

0 in WS Glitch / Decentralization bug
First of all, WS means Win Streak. That means the streak number is current.
There is a glitch in the Emerald Frontier, which erases you current streak numbers.
If you have played this game long enough, it’s very probable you encountered it before.
Thankfully, your main streaks will never be affected (in Emerald anyway).
There are, actually, 3 different bugs.
The first cuts the current streak number and puts it as previous, without erasing the streak number.
The second erases the current streak number, puts it as previous, and the third erases the streak number, but leaves it as current.
Why am I talking about this? It’s a bothersome bug, but you can take advantage of it.
In the Factory, for example, you can bring your streak number to 0, but keep the R/T number (the one corresponding to the team you can choose), and therefore pick with which stretch list to start.
For example, I have 0 as my WS (Win Streak), so the list of opponents will be the 0 one, but the R/T are not at 0, so I’ll get a starting list that should be unavailable at the level I’m at.
For Factory, you sometimes get a R/T that’s very unfavorable for the WS number, so if you can decentralize it to predict the stretch in which you’d have problems, then you have an advantage and the possibility to get the streak number a little further, until you find another spot like that one.
The problem (well, it’s for the better really) is that it only works once by streak, you can’t modify your R/T if you’re already in.
That was in Emerald.
This bug also exists in Platinum (and HGSS).
It doesn’t have the same function in that game.
A decentralization here brings the streak number back to 0, but the list of opponents remains on the WS that the game should have been at.
“Well then that’s not useful!” But it is! On the contrary, it’s very useful.
It has been used notably (and exclusively) for Smeargle’s BH.
It’s very difficult to block the list to 950, and there are several zones with low odds of success.
Thanks to this bug, and if you play linked, you can start with the list of a 950 right away without having to block the list.
It’s quite the advance for this facility, and therefore, players have been able to do many more attempts to improve the streak record.
To trigger the bug, in Emerald, it comes during an exchange of data.
Do a lot of it to improve your odds of getting it.
If you have a Backup Tool, you can extract the sav to keep the 0 in WS in a folder.
This way, if you lose, and you want to restart with 0 WS, you will only need to reinject the savefile (the same applies to linked in Platinum).
In Platinum, we don’t really know how to get it, but if you play a lot, after some time, it’ll happen, and a savefile in 0 WS is getting shared among singles players anyway.
For those that remember, you can check out this article. ;)
“For Platinum Factory, sure, but can you use it for the Battle Castle (in particular for the points)?” For now, there is no bug found to keep points and remove the WS. But even then, if the WS is based on the wins you previously had, it’s useless.
It could have been useful to not have the 9999 points limits, but it doesn’t get reached anyway.

Black & White

Black & White
The cycle system has changed.
It’s no longer a list tied to a stretch and the number of wins that makes difficulty rise (that’s why there’s Singles and Super Singles, for example), but rather the number of times one has participated.
But no worries, after the 7th cycle, the same starts again from 1.
You only have to make random attempts at will to come back to cycle 1 (or to the one you want to have).
Another thing, the number of Pokémon to have gotten KOd can also change the cycle.
1 Pokémon KO = 1 more cycle, it’s not really bothersome, but making lists will take more time, since you really need to know what you’re doing, and to know what you’re doing, it requires a lot of attempts.
For those who didn’t understand, you can travel between cycles at will by making sure certain Pokémon die in certain places where you can afford to do so.
This system is exclusive to BW and also exists in BW2.
“If I’m in the middle of a fight, and one of my Pokémon is KOd, when does the cycle change happen?”
In the next stretch, quite simply, there’s won’t be a cycle change during an ongoing stretch, since it’s already been loaded by the game.

X&Y

X&Y
There are no more stretches in Battle Maison, and therefore, no more %C.
We don’t know yet whether or not there are cycles, or even if it’s working the same way as 3rd and 4th gens, or 5th gen.
The %C Move is still there, since it logically cannot be removed, and the release of these two new games gives me the occasion to tell you about it.
As you know, regular %C tells you what Pokémon will be picked depending of how many wins you have (well, in other games of course), %C Move tells you what the Pokémon will do depending on your team, or on what happened during the battle if the battle is already ongoing.
There is a tiny glimpse at this in my article on X&Y Talking.
I should precise this is more like a way of understanding the AI and the priorities it will have, rather than a thing put in the game on purpose.

Summary

In summary
For every stretch [series] of battles, the odds of encountering certain Pokémon from the AI changes.
“Bad luck” can be removed if you use Pokémon with low base stats (be careful to use decent things still).
Every stretch features an exploitable weakness.
You can’t mix up the lists between facilities, Battle Tower Singles has its own list, Battle Tower Doubles too, same with the Battle Castle, the Battle Arcade, etc…
The Battle Hall doesn’t have its own list, you can’t use the list of a Solo Togekiss in a Solo Latias for example.
Battle Hall’s list becomes fixed at 950 for Smeargle.
BW and XY are shit. (lewl troll)
All that’s left for me is to wish you good luck.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Frontier players think of all this!

 

[submenceisop]

So I was inquiring about the history of Gen 3 streaks in the Discord server earlier today, and some people mentioned mysterious records by a French user that goes by mystic251. A link to the person's blog in French was dropped, and what I found in there was... interesting? That person has delved very deep into theories that may or may not be rooted in actual game mechanics (I'll let others discuss that because I have very little experience with Gens 3 and 4). In any case, I thought it would be worth translating his blog and post it here for anyone curious about the inner workings of someone with, apparently, several records for those facilities?

He has 2 posts regarding this, one is a long introduction that ends with how he got into the battle facilities and his "%C" theory, and the second details his theories. I'll break down the second post into smaller sections because it's very long, and he doesn't use paragraphs, but rather uses a new line for every sentence. The posts, even in French, contain a lot of puzzling sentences and has typos and grammatical errors all over, so if some things sound curious here, there's a good chance it sounded just as curious in the original post (though it's a quick translation job so it's certainly not perfect).

Introduction

We are in 2004, I sign up on the Pokémania forum, I remain there for months, and one day, I see the thread “how many hall of fames do you have?”.
Well, I don’t remember if that was exactly the title, but you get it.
I boot up my console, and look for the 2nd time ever at the hall of fame screen on Sapphire.
It shows 746… Whoa, I had no idea how many I had done, and I hadn’t even wondered.
The last time I looked at it, it was for my first hall of fame, July 28th 2003.
I simply post my number on the forum, but of course, they didn’t believe me at first.
It’s understandable, we’re in 2004, “scording[?]” was VERY limited, even non-existent, since I’m the one who started the trend.
I confirmed it was true, and they asked me to post a picture.
I didn’t know of any server or hosting service.
Achamo, a member of the forum whom I got along well with, gave me a link to Skyblog.
You can imagine the rest I guess, I posted the picture of my trainer card, and as my 2nd post, the hall of fame screen.
I posted the picture, they believed me, and then asked how I did it.
I explained the principle of Talking, at the time it didn’t have a name, so they told me I should give it one, just to know what we’re talking about.
The “you know the method used to train pokémon to lv 100 thanks to the exp share” wasn’t practical at all.
Since I was the one who discovered it, they said I should name it.
I said Talking randomly, and it doesn’t have much to do with the method, but hey, I was only 15, and my English wasn’t very good.
It comes from the move Sleep Talk (Blabla Dodo in French), a move that allows you to move while you sleep.
In Talking, you can play while you do other things, but I didn’t know what the English word meant.
And there you have it, the blog was born, and so was Talking.
Sadly, the forum died in 2005, so I searched for another…
I went to Pokélord, their way of working was a little weird, and I didn’t like it.
So I left, but a player from Pokélord followed me on Skyrock.
You probably guessed it, that was Fireruby.
He’s the one who introduced me to the website ShinyHunters, and just a week later, the forum of that website opens.
I sign up… ugh, we’re only three. lulz
Link Elfe and Chiwigum. Others came after, like Aquathan or Nosfrat.
I already knew about shinies, since I had 3 at the time.
My Crobat, a Tentacruel and a traded Exploud, and a few days later, I encountered a Spheal.
You could say this shiny hunting forum brought me luck, since it came really fast.
After the first shiny capture of the forum, I made a new topic to express my joy, and a member had the idea of creating a topic for all new catches, but with time, I don’t remember at all who that was.
Emerald releases, I find a shiny Mightyena, and of course, the Battle Frontier.
I liked that thing, but I wasn’t at the same level I’m at now, and I wasn’t getting many achievements there, so I kept going with Talks.
One day, a dude comes see me, Drax.
He came from the Pokémon Challenge forum, Dark Raikou’s website.
He tells me about the team of an American player, Tang.
A group of players that played together.
Tang, the best of the group, asked Drax to come see me.
He wanted me in his team, because I was in good relation with the players, my TC/Talks attracted attention, and he needed a “poster boy” for the group.
That’s right, PvP players weren’t really popular at the time…
We made a deal.
He taught me to play, and I joined his group.
The undefeated PSC player didn’t anticipate that I would end up surpassing him.
Years pass, and I simply feel like moving on to other things.
I leave the group in November 2008, after being there for 2 and a half years (Yumut, Prixma and Sparda followed).
I decided to take back the Groupe Béa and to stop PvP.
There comes a time when one must move on.
It’s way too time-consuming, and since I wasn’t motivated anymore, it transpired to my plays, I prefer playing casually at home, especially since Tang told me about %C.
Just like Talking, this method had no name, I gave it one.
Traditionally, in 2008, we only exchanged Pokémon 2 or 3 times for attempt.
It made for results like my 413 BTS at the time, or the small 518 in BTD.
Good, but I went further, and found that it was more beneficial to entirely change the team every round.
It worked better, but haxx really limited our record attempts…
I did some UU, to get into the habit of being more careful of my plays, and in the end, it turned out that the “luck formula” of the AI was calculated according to the stats of the team.
And there, I finally understood how it had to be played.
%C wasn’t a must, since strong Pokémon destroy through everything, except in the case of haxx, but with this, it becomes completely logical that it got introduced in the game.
It’s well thought, except, low BST Pokémon aren’t always bad for fighting, for example Smeargle.
From 2008 to 2015, I dedicated myself to records in the Battle Frontier, and I keep great memory from it.

%C

Some explanations on %C
You know the Battle Tower, I suppose?
Fighting AI using 3 Pokémon of level 50 or 100.
The game in the eyes of beginner players for singles is to take a team of 3 Pokémon of the facility’s level (50 if you picked 50, 100 if 100).
The first goal is to get 100 wins to get an additional star on the Trainer Card.
Sure, but then what?
If you haven’t lost, you can keep going, from 105 to 112, then from 112 to 119.
It’s basic plays.
We can go a bit further.
Take 3 very strong Pokémon that are effective on as many possible Pokémon in the Tower to get a better streak.
Yeah that’s an idea, but that remains novice-level, because there’s too much randomness.
Back to the 105-112 example, we can observe some Pokémon appear more often than others, but in 112-119, “I feel like it’s a little different”.
That’s right, the percentage of chance for certain Pokémon to show up in 105-112 could be completely different from 112-119.
So, instead of taking 3 ferocious beasts that can beat about everything in theory, you can take 3 different Pokémon, that counter less generic threats, but that target the specific list in which you are, for example 133-140.
“There aren’t many changes, it really is just details”. When starting, sure, certain Pokémons’ percentage rate of showing up rise or go down very slowly. That’s so the player can play in a traditional way without being bothered by the programming.
Then, when you get to a certain number, the difference between 2 stretches can be night and day.
And you can know, “before even going”, before even trying.
“I often see Ninetales, followed by Arcanine or Blaziken”.
Yes, the Pokémon also have a certain symbiotic relation.
To sum up, every stretch has certain odds to encounter specific trainers, and every trainer has certain odds to encounter specific Pokémon.
For example, Axel the Dragon Tamer can use Tyranitar and Latias, but not Latios in this one stretch, but Latios will be included in very high odds in another.
However, our dear Axel will never be able to use Flareon, in no list whatsoever.
Of course, he’s a Dragon Tamer, not a Gentleman!
To benefit from this system, one needs to make a list of Trainers and Pokémon that show up, but differentiate between the different series [stretches].
For example, you can’t take the list of 252-259 to play 259-266.
So if you play a lot, you know what you’re about to get, and you can raise the streak little by little.
Not bad, right? I love this way of playing.
“I can’t get good streaks, incredible stuff always happens to me, like Fissure + Quick Claw…”
Just imagine, we know what we’re about to face, it would be way too easy to take strong stuff against stupid AIs…
That’s right, if it wasn’t of that, we could easily top the counter at 9999.
Nintendo thought about that and made sure it wasn’t possible.
Yeah but that’s still frustrating, isn’t it? We can’t get further because of pre-programmed “bad luck” in the game.
Nintendo once again thought of that.
The AI’s luck is calculated from the total stat points of your team. (The name of this method is: ACH = Automatic critical hits / AHI = Automatic haxx items)
Basically, when you use big bad guys, you improve the odds of getting beat down.
“Sure, I can take weaker Pokémon, but how can I play them against the AI’s Pokémon, that have the base stats of the Pokémon I was previously using?”
Do you remember? I said the odds of encountering certain Pokémon change depending on stretches.
Some Pokémon are OU (OverUsed), others are UU (UnderUsed), or NU (NeverUsed).
I’m summarizing, you know!… There’s a lot more nuance than this, for example some middle+ and middle-.
In any case, there are some Pokémon with high odds of showing up, others have lower odds, and others none at all (0%).
You need to take into account all Trainers of the stretch you’re in, all the Pokémon also, and look for the flaws.
Every Pokémon has its weaknesses, and even with a weaker Pokémon, if you play with this in mind, you win anyway.
It’s very hard to build something that works well, especially when it’s only for 7 Trainers.
Then, you get the idea, you change the team, and you do it all over again.

WiFi Battle Tower

The WiFi Battle Tower (DPPt)
Playing against other human player’s Pokémon, but they’re used by the AI.
There’s no %C, so how can we get a good streak?
It’s exactly the same as in singles.
By using weaker Pokémon, you get less bad luck, and to know what Pokémon you’ll face, you can play with 2 games.
In the first, you look at the 7 trainers registered in the room, and with the second, you beat them down!
Use quiet rooms with few people, you can often get 7 times the same person, so it’s very easy compared to traditional Battle Tower.

Smeargle in the Battle Hall

Smeargle in BH (Battle Hall)
That’s right! A beginner would find it laughable, but it’s the best Pokémon to use for this facility. It has an infinite movepool, it’s very strong but has low stats, so for ACH/AHI (Automatic critical hits/haxx items), it’s a very good return on investment.
What’s more, at 950, Smeargle’s list remains blocked on the previous, you always get the same thing, and there are many Pokémon with 0%.

Battle Factory

Battle Factory
“I can’t use my own Pokémon, how can I use %C?”
As you know, the AI decides the Pokémon it’ll use based on your current streak, but there’s also the number of trades in the factory.
The game will base itself off of this for the Pokémon you’ll be able to select:
WS = Opponent’s Pokémon, and R/T = Yours.
Technically, it’s very difficult.

Multi Link

Multi Link
%C is a bit different in this kind of facility.
To begin with, the way fighting works is different.
There are 2 trainers, one side for each, if one of the 2 doesn’t have anymore Pokémon but the other still has 2, they won’t send anymore from their side.
Trainer #1 will use the stretch list of Player 1, and the 2nd, Player 2.
How to capitalize on it?
You use an “official” cartridge where you want the final score to show up, and 2 other cartridges.
On the first, you achieve the streak, on the 2 others, you can keep going to get desired Pokémon, or simply the other way around, for the same reason.
The 2nd Trainer is therefore customizable as much as you want (at least from the trainers available in the game), but don’t hope to always get stuff like Natu with the 2nd Trainer, because difficulty is regulated by the cycles (not to mix up with the cycles of BW, it’s the same name for a very different thing).
This method isn’t used a lot, because it’s really too difficult technically, and it’s very time-consuming.

Decentralization bug

0 in WS Glitch / Decentralization bug
First of all, WS means Win Streak. That means the streak number is current.
There is a glitch in the Emerald Frontier, which erases you current streak numbers.
If you have played this game long enough, it’s very probable you encountered it before.
Thankfully, your main streaks will never be affected (in Emerald anyway).
There are, actually, 3 different bugs.
The first cuts the current streak number and puts it as previous, without erasing the streak number.
The second erases the current streak number, puts it as previous, and the third erases the streak number, but leaves it as current.
Why am I talking about this? It’s a bothersome bug, but you can take advantage of it.
In the Factory, for example, you can bring your streak number to 0, but keep the R/T number (the one corresponding to the team you can choose), and therefore pick with which stretch list to start.
For example, I have 0 as my WS (Win Streak), so the list of opponents will be the 0 one, but the R/T are not at 0, so I’ll get a starting list that should be unavailable at the level I’m at.
For Factory, you sometimes get a R/T that’s very unfavorable for the WS number, so if you can decentralize it to predict the stretch in which you’d have problems, then you have an advantage and the possibility to get the streak number a little further, until you find another spot like that one.
The problem (well, it’s for the better really) is that it only works once by streak, you can’t modify your R/T if you’re already in.
That was in Emerald.
This bug also exists in Platinum (and HGSS).
It doesn’t have the same function in that game.
A decentralization here brings the streak number back to 0, but the list of opponents remains on the WS that the game should have been at.
“Well then that’s not useful!” But it is! On the contrary, it’s very useful.
It has been used notably (and exclusively) for Smeargle’s BH.
It’s very difficult to block the list to 950, and there are several zones with low odds of success.
Thanks to this bug, and if you play linked, you can start with the list of a 950 right away without having to block the list.
It’s quite the advance for this facility, and therefore, players have been able to do many more attempts to improve the streak record.
To trigger the bug, in Emerald, it comes during an exchange of data.
Do a lot of it to improve your odds of getting it.
If you have a Backup Tool, you can extract the sav to keep the 0 in WS in a folder.
This way, if you lose, and you want to restart with 0 WS, you will only need to reinject the savefile (the same applies to linked in Platinum).
In Platinum, we don’t really know how to get it, but if you play a lot, after some time, it’ll happen, and a savefile in 0 WS is getting shared among singles players anyway.
For those that remember, you can check out this article. ;)
“For Platinum Factory, sure, but can you use it for the Battle Castle (in particular for the points)?” For now, there is no bug found to keep points and remove the WS. But even then, if the WS is based on the wins you previously had, it’s useless.
It could have been useful to not have the 9999 points limits, but it doesn’t get reached anyway.

Black & White

Black & White
The cycle system has changed.
It’s no longer a list tied to a stretch and the number of wins that makes difficulty rise (that’s why there’s Singles and Super Singles, for example), but rather the number of times one has participated.
But no worries, after the 7th cycle, the same starts again from 1.
You only have to make random attempts at will to come back to cycle 1 (or to the one you want to have).
Another thing, the number of Pokémon to have gotten KOd can also change the cycle.
1 Pokémon KO = 1 more cycle, it’s not really bothersome, but making lists will take more time, since you really need to know what you’re doing, and to know what you’re doing, it requires a lot of attempts.
For those who didn’t understand, you can travel between cycles at will by making sure certain Pokémon die in certain places where you can afford to do so.
This system is exclusive to BW and also exists in BW2.
“If I’m in the middle of a fight, and one of my Pokémon is KOd, when does the cycle change happen?”
In the next stretch, quite simply, there’s won’t be a cycle change during an ongoing stretch, since it’s already been loaded by the game.

X&Y

X&Y
There are no more stretches in Battle Maison, and therefore, no more %C.
We don’t know yet whether or not there are cycles, or even if it’s working the same way as 3rd and 4th gens, or 5th gen.
The %C Move is still there, since it logically cannot be removed, and the release of these two new games gives me the occasion to tell you about it.
As you know, regular %C tells you what Pokémon will be picked depending of how many wins you have (well, in other games of course), %C Move tells you what the Pokémon will do depending on your team, or on what happened during the battle if the battle is already ongoing.
There is a tiny glimpse at this in my article on X&Y Talking.
I should precise this is more like a way of understanding the AI and the priorities it will have, rather than a thing put in the game on purpose.

Summary

In summary
For every stretch [series] of battles, the odds of encountering certain Pokémon from the AI changes.
“Bad luck” can be removed if you use Pokémon with low base stats (be careful to use decent things still).
Every stretch features an exploitable weakness.
You can’t mix up the lists between facilities, Battle Tower Singles has its own list, Battle Tower Doubles too, same with the Battle Castle, the Battle Arcade, etc…
The Battle Hall doesn’t have its own list, you can’t use the list of a Solo Togekiss in a Solo Latias for example.
Battle Hall’s list becomes fixed at 950 for Smeargle.
BW and XY are shit. (lewl troll)
All that’s left for me is to wish you good luck.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Frontier players think of all this!

It's not using cheats or save states, so it's technically legal. But I frown upon the idea of this, because it's manipulating the frontier/maison to get easy wins. My personal opinion is to play battles as they come, with pokemon you raised/caught on your own. That's why I don't consider RNG manipulation for natures/ev spreads as cheating, as you still have to go through the effort to time frames perfectly. Kudos to you if you can pull that off, because I still can't even after 10+ years of playing pokemon.

 

[dgice]

It's not using cheats or save states, so it's technically legal. But I frown upon the idea of this, because it's manipulating the frontier/maison to get easy wins. My personal opinion is to play battles as they come, with pokemon you raised/caught on your own. That's why I don't consider RNG manipulation for natures/ev spreads as cheating, as you still have to go through the effort to time frames perfectly. Kudos to you if you can pull that off, because I still can't even after 10+ years of playing pokemon.

We assume he is bullshitting us. You can probably optimize teams for each round sub 49 wins, but post 50 it's all just one giant pool of trainers to the best of our knowledge. We know that different ev spreads on your pokemon will draw out different attacks from your opponent but we have no evidence that lower base stat totals affect which pokemon your opponent will bring. We do know that it's theoretically possible to rng manip which opponent you're facing but likely very effort intensive, he didn't really talk about that. We can't find anywhere on the internet where he posted any teams which is really disappointing. His palace streak alone is very interesting as to get that far you would need some kind of secret weapon no one else has like complete knowledge of the 21 pokemon you will face each 7 battles.

 

[Adedede]

Smeargle in BH (Battle Hall)
That’s right! A beginner would find it laughable, but it’s the best Pokémon to use for this facility. It has an infinite movepool, it’s very strong but has low stats, so for ACH/AHI (Automatic critical hits/haxx items), it’s a very good return on investment.
What’s more, at 950, Smeargle’s list remains blocked on the previous, you always get the same thing, and there are many Pokémon with 0%.

 

[Zsy6]

The complete disassembly of Emerald's code is available, and has been for a while. I've read through the sections controlling AI behavior, and while it's a bit confusing, there is no evidence of any "%C" algorithm or any unfair advantage given to the AI at all.

On a related note, I'm working on a program to assist in RNG manipulating the starting pokemon in the Factory. You enter your current streak and # of swaps, and you get a list of frames with the starting 6 pokemon and the first enemy's team. You can search for specific pokemon that you'd like to use, and also specific pokemon sets. The code comes straight from the game, so I can guarantee its accuracy. Hoping to use the program to break 100 wins in the Factory before releasing it for everyone to try!

 

[Adedede]

Hello everyone! I'm here today to report something really interesting.
I had reached 1792 wins and, after starting a new round of 7 fights, this has happened:

I was really scared of a data reset while recording the video, but at the end I checked the counter and my streak was at 1799, nothing wrong.
Basically the game resets foes' sets generator after 256 rounds of 7 fights (1792), making you face first round enemies from battle n. 1793 and so on, while it regularly keeps counting the wins in the streak.

I'm at *1813 wins at the moment, and I'll update the post to show my "second" fight against Anabel Silver!



EDIT: Sadly, it was Anabel Gold again even if previous enemies were clearly taken from 29-35 battles pool.

First Boss Fight after the glitch

 

[Kommo-o]

I uploaded another video, but this time it's not about Die Deutsche Wissenschaft. This time, I actually made a commentated run with my beloved Team Azure: The team that started everything for me in Gen 3! Honestly, it felt amazing to get back to use Team Azure considering that I do have fond memories of Suicune ending games at +6, Latios cleaning opponents and Steelix cock-blocking Lapras 8. I decided to made a video about this team since I didn't had good quality ones previously with commentary. Hope you enjoy!

Updated Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/96b848cc0592efed

 

[greentyphlosion]

Hello everyone! I'm here today to report something really interesting.
I had reached 1792 wins and, after starting a new round of 7 fights, this has happened:

I was really scared of a data reset while recording the video, but at the end I checked the counter and my streak was at 1799, nothing wrong.
Basically the game resets foes' sets generator after 256 rounds of 7 fights (1792), making you face first round enemies from battle n. 1793 and so on, while it regularly keeps counting the wins in the streak.

I'm at 1820 wins at the moment, and I'll update the post to show my "second" fight against Anabel Silver!

Didn't the Gen 4 Battle Tower do something similar after an improbably high number of wins? I can't remember the number but I'm sure I've seen claims of that nature.

Either way, congrats! Looks like 1792 is the new number to aim for...

 

[Coeur7]

Yes. It was on the same number.

"Incidentally", 1791 is 0x6ff.

 

[Kommo-o]

Yes. It was on the same number.

"Incidentally", 1791 is 0x6ff.

RENEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Coeur7]

Please don't do that. I don't like it.

 

[Kommo-o]

Please don't do that. I don't like it.

In all seriousness, it's good to see you around. You missed our %C shitposting extravaganza

 

[submenceisop]

Just cleared 210 floors in the Battle Pyramid with Latios/Metagross/ Blissey. Kinda bored of it, so I'm going to stop here. It's definitely getting repetitive.
Latios is the lead, has amazing synergy resisting Metagross's weaknesses and vice versa. I gave Metagross the choice band and it provided some defensive backbone and immediate power. Blissey walls all the special waters and fires and only fainted about three times throughout the run (CM Raikou, Sheer cold x2). Blissey was the MVP of the run, healing Latios and Metagross and softboiling on weak wild pokemon.

For the Brandon battles
Latios beats: Zapdos and Moltres.
Metagross beats: Regirock/Registeel/Regice, Articuno.

It took on average 10-15 minutes for me to clear 7 floors. Goal was to find the exit as fast as you can, items were not important with Blissey serving the cleric role. I found the trapping level the most annoying, particularly with Wobuffets, as Latios(has to cm multiple times), Metagross could be trapped by dugtrios and Blissey has to toxic stall. Explosion round and Normal (with hyperbeams from Slaking, Tauros and Snorlax) were also dangerous, as they forced me to use multiple revives even with Blissey. Other notable things that managed to be threats were cm/rest raikou from randomly powerful trainers and scizors.

Also got through the Battle Pike with Starmie, Lum berry Metagross and leftovers Blissey. Lost at Battle 196 to Lucy. Walked into a room on 194 which froze all my mons. Room 195 had a double battle against Starmie and Gengar. Tried to switch to activate natural cure, but Starmie and Metagross fainted with Blissey having to pp stall Gengar to win. Next match is vs Lucy with just blissey, who couldn't solo.

https://pokepast.es/eba23d786389a6b3 Battle Pyramid
https://pokepast.es/55ef155b8ad7fa88 Battle Pike

Last facility left is the Battle Tower! What do you guys use to videotape your runs? I've been filming using the battle video through the game, but I'm going to try to get a full run in.

 

[bobdat]

Hi everyone, this is my first post in the Gen III battle frontier discussion thread but I have been lurking since before Christmas (both here and in the Discord).

I haven't got a ton of time for training on the Gen 3 games although I'd like to do more. But, I have got time for the occasional go at the Battle Factory and that's what I'm posting about.

Battle Factory Singles Open Level - 42 Streak (ongoing)

I actually achieved this back in January but haven't gone back to it. I stopped after I got the Gold Symbol but shoulda continued, really.
I'm not sure whether swapping fairly frequently helped or not; I ended up getting Latias in the 6th and 7th rounds which made a huge difference, plus I got a lot of Regis appearing. My strategy was to swap whenever I could, without seriously endangering my prospects of winning, and that seemed to be roughly half the time.

I can't remember every detail of the run since it was three months ago, but some bits I do remember from the last couple of rounds (sorry for any inaccuracies):

• In one battle, my lead Regirock missed twice in a row with Rock Slide, got frozen and KO'd, my second Pokémon was useless and was OHKO'd; and then I had Latias to sweep all three opponents. I managed it (just) because the opponent's final Pokémon was a Magmar with a bad set.
• Another battle where Regirock missed with Rock Slide and was KO'd, leaving Latias to solo the final two Pokémon: last Pokémon out was a Blastoise with no ice-type moves.
• I had a Regirock with Double Team, I think, and I got to +6 Evasion in a battle against an Arcanine that couldn't hurt me, but the opponent's final Pokémon was the Psych Up Metagross set. It copied +6 Evasion and set to work, hit with Earthquake and OHKO'd Regirock. Luckily when I brought in Latias it got a hit in and KO'd Metagross (I swapped to get Metagross after the battle)
• My Psych Up Metagross v Curselax (set 7): I used Psych Up when Snorlax had +3 Atk and +2 Def. Snorlax hurt itself in confusion twice instead of hitting Metagross with a boosted Earthquake and I swept the rest of the team (swapped to get Snorlax).
• Against Noland for the Gold Symbol was really interesting. I had Articuno, Latias and Snorlax-7. He led with Sheer Cold Lapras. First turn, it used Sheer Cold and OHKO'd Articuno. I switched in Latias, which it put straight to sleep with Sing. I switched (again) for Snorlax, which it put straight to sleep with Sing. Luckily, Snorlax woke up and got the KO with Earthquake, but Lapras did miss two or three Sheer Colds in the meantime. Next up was Shuckle, which was really lucky because the Shuckle set (4) couldn't touch Snorlax. (Toxic/Double Team/Wrap/Rest). Snorlax had Immunity so Toxic was ineffective, and Wrap did almost no damage. I got off 6 Curses but it Double Teamed a few times in the process, and eventually I got a lucky hit with my last PP for Earthquake. Noland's final Pokemon was Dodrio (lol). It landed a Drill Peck which did almost nothing and I got the OHKO with Hyper Beam.

Battle Factory Doubles Open Level - 28 Streak (ended)

(Sorry for bad quality).
I started this format because I noticed there weren't any other records for it, basically, and wondered how hard it was. I actually don't find Doubles all that much harder than Singles, although it is irritating to have to pass on using Earthquake to avoid hurting your partner. I had a few failed streaks that lost after 6 or 7 battles, and I definitely think you're most vulnerable on the first battle of each streak because you can get a bad bunch of rentals. Often there's no synergy between them and you just have to hope for a few wins to pick up some better Pokemon.

One thing I do like is to pick up something with Ice Beam or Blizzard just in case I come across Salamence/Flygon or another Dragon-type. It's easy to KO them, and then you can swap for them in the next battle.

Earthquake is a really good move, despite the occasional damage you inflict on your partner. I had a lot of success with it in this run.

1. I didn't write down any details of what I did in Round 1, but I don't remember any specific problems.
2. Round 2 I ended up with Flygon, Gyarados-2 and Metagross-2. Flygon could EQ without hurting Gyarados, Gyarados wasn't amazing but does have semi-good coverage. Metagross was good as the occasional finisher (and could also EQ without hurting either partner). Actually a fairly easy round because of the good synergy.
3. Round 3 I had Dodrio, Swampert and Heracross. I thought this would be good synergy again because of EQ from Swampert not affecting Dodrio and not very effective on Heracross. Unfortunately Dodrio just kept getting KO'd on the first turn (Electrode, Jolteon, Manectric) so I had a few difficult battles. In the end, the Manectric battle saved me; the opponent had Manectric/Gengar-3/Miltank. Manectric KO'd Dodrio but I revenge-killed it with Swampert (EQ missed Heracross due to Brightpowder). Miltank was useless but Gengar OHKO'd Swampert with Giga Drain eventually, leaving me 1v2. I got incredibly lucky: between Gengar and Miltank, they could easily have finished me off, but for whatever mad AI reason, Gengar used Skill Swap on Heracross (it got Swarm; I got Levitate). Miltank followed up by using Earthquake (!) which KO'd Gengar and did nothing to Heracross. I had Brick Break, so I wore Miltank down, but it got a critical hit with Shadow Ball to give me a bit of a scare before it went down. I swapped Dodrio for Gengar-3 and it was the MVP of the rest of the round (Swampert could EQ and Gengar has good coverage).
4. Round 4 I had Medicham-4/Slowbro/Jolteon to start off with. Medicham isn't amazing but had pretty good coverage, and Slowbro was bulky enough to hang around. Luckily in the first battle the opponent had Salamence-4, wasted its turn using Dragon Dance so Slowbro could KO it with Ice Beam. I swapped Jolteon for Salamence and that was it, the rest of the round was just a matter of wearing things down with Medicham and Slowbro, and Salamence in reserve just in case. I got lucky and faced quite a few weak sets, really, no serious threats. In the final battle of the round, I was facing Mr Mime/Snorlax, and Mr Mime got a first-turn crit OHKO with Thunderbolt on Slowbro, which made things difficult. In the end, Salamence was beaten down by Thunderbolts and Medicham was left to finish Snorlax with Mega Kick until the PP ran out; then Psychic (it was at +2 Atk +2 Def).
5. Unfortunately I started Round 5 with Registeel-4, Altaria and Espeon. First up was Regice/Slowking and I had absolutely no chance. Altaria was OHKO'd by Slowking's Ice Beam; Registeel wore Regice down with Ancientpower but it just used Rest after a bit; Espeon was KO'd on its second turn because Regice and Slowking teamed up to hit it with two Ice Beams; and Registeel just had nothing. I paralyzed both opponent Pokémon, used Double Team to try and get some hax but Registeel-4 doesn't have any way to heal and eventually enough Ice Beams and Surfs hit the mark. I was unlucky to hit two bulky opponents in the first battle with no real offensive threat. None of the options I got offered at the start would have been any better, (Meganium-4...) although I could've used Jolteon-2 to KO Slowking/Roar Regice out, but I don't think it would have changed the result.

The AI is really not very good in doubles, (apart from a occasional outright bad moves like Skill Swap-Earthquake) there were really very few instances of the AI using the Doubles format to its advantage. I had quite a few situations where the opponent would attack my first Pokemon with a move which would have been super effective on my second Pokemon., which seemed pointless.
The only instance of real strategy from the AI was in a previous failed streak, where Claydol-1 used Swagger on its partner which had a Persim Berry, then used Psych Up to get the boost. I managed to win the battle but it was definitely threatening.
I also had fun in a failed streak using Blissey-1 (Toxic/Double Team/Sing/Softboiled) and Lapras-1 (Surf/Attract/Confuse Ray/Sing) to Toxic-stall opponents out with tons of confusion/attraction/evasion hax. Unfortunately I came undone when a Nidoking OHKO'd Blissey with Horn Drill on turn 1.

It's frustrating to lose streaks out of pure bad luck in Pokémon choice but I actually find the Factory a lot less rage-inducing than I used to. It suits me not having as much time to spend on training Pokémon and relatively short streaks on cartridge also save me hours of button-bashing. I like thinking of different strategies on the fly and stuff like that, and I've enjoyed rediscovering Doubles.

Anyway, I love reading and hearing about everyone else's success in the other facilities and I'm pretty proud to have a couple decent streaks of my own. I'm going to try to continue my Singles streak when I've got a bit of time, too, so I'll post an update.

Update 24/04: Battle Factory Singles Open Level - 44 Streak (ended)
Unfortunately, my Singles streak is over this morning.

I entered Round 8 with Weezing-2, Regice-4 and Regirock-6. Swapped Weezing-2 for Flygon-2 after the first battle as I wasn't confident of getting much success with Weezing-2.

In the third battle of the round, the opponent opened with Weezing-1, and Flygon put up Sunny Day, before missing three times in a row with Fire Blast and being KO'd by Sludge Bomb. Regice revenge killed Weezing but not before getting burnt, and next out was Misdreavus-2. Thanks to my burn, Misdreavus couldn't do much except hit with Psychic, and Regice got the KO. Sadly, the final Pokemon was Slowbro-4. Regice paralyzed it and got in two chip-damage Ice Beams before going down to Surf. Regirock is not a good matchup vs. Slowbro and the damage calc said Surf was a guaranteed 2HKO. Rock Slide was a 3HKO on Slowbro, but Slowbro was paralyzed and I decided to bet on flinch/parahax rather than wasting turns trying Swagger/Psych Up which would only improve Rock Slide to a 2HKO anyway (and so take 4 turns instead of 3).
My first Rock Slide produced a flinch; second Rock Slide missed and Slowbro hit with Surf; third Rock Slide hit but Slowbro survived and KO'd Regirock with Surf. I don't think choosing against Swagger was a misplay but clearly it could have gone differently.

I can post proof if necessary but I figured hopefully this much is OK.

 

[submenceisop]

Just got 72 wins in a row in the Battle Arena with Gengar, Latios, Heracross. Will update with video. Insanely lucky until the end. Constant 10% paras, freezes and dodged all the sheer colds. Lost to a Zapdos/Regirock/Entei team. Latios got quick clawed explosion by Regirock, Heracross lost to Entei.

Initially, I had Scizor in the 3rd slot, but that team lost 5 times (Arcanine, Houndoom, Typhlosion, Exploud with Overheat, Bright powder Ampharos with fire punch). Gengar with Hasty and it's given ev spread outspeeds everything but Aerodactyl (1 and 2), Dugtrio, Sceptile, Jolteon 4 and Crobat 3/4). I usually get a favorable matchup in most cases as Gengar either gets the explosion off, allowing me to trade, or gets the SE coverage on something. If it's a special wall, I immediately boom. No nonsense. Does about 80-90% to Snorlax, just about guarantee oko on anything that doesn't resist it. Arguably, you can reduce the evs on attack just a bit, because sometimes Gengar's special attacks could use a little more juice. Like barely missing out on the oko on Rhydon with Ice punch.

Latios is usually in my second slot, just bulky enough to withstand most SE hits and dish back in return. If Latios got crit on Metagross shadow balls/crit on ice beams, my run ends earlier. Lum berry allows me to set up on things that I know carry around status moves and cures untimely freezes and paras.

Heracross is my physical attacker and destroys special walls. Jolly>Adamant for Arena, as you can't switch out and you absolutely need the speed. Here's a list of things that Jolly Hera out speeds that Adamant doesn't: All variants of Arcanine, Houndoom, Rapidash, Xatu, Charizard 4, Flygon 3/4, Salamence 2, Typhlosion 2 and 4 as the main ones). I actually did notice the slight decrease in power, as EQ couldn't oko something like Ampharos, which Adamant assuredly okos. But after losing to constantly losing to fire types with Scizor, I knew I had to go Jolly.

https://pokepast.es/b4d43a511b48c466

Threats to this team
Crobat 3/4 (The ones that are faster and carry shadow ball, aerial ace)
Aerodactyl (1 and 2- Latios takes it on if healthy. Gengar as well, but doesn't get the oko)
Metagross
Gengar( some carry ice punch, psychic or destiny bond)- speed ties with Latios.
Quick Claw users with oko moves
Adamant Dusclops with shadow ball
Starmie- I explode if Gengar is out vs it, Latios takes it on if healthy, Heracross loses to versions with psychic

Edit: Tried to upload the video, but it's over 2 hours long... I'll just get the battle vs Greta.

For Battle 1: Best to lead with Latios/Heracross/Gengar. Latios crushes Heracross with psychic, loses to Umbreon and shedninja. If you miss Rock slide twice vs Shedninja, hopefully fire punch Gengar can get it.

For Greta Battle 2: Gengar, Heracross, Latios. Boom on Umbreon, Umbreon koed by Heracross with Brick break. If Gengar beats Hera, Latios cleans up with psychic.

https://kapwi.ng/c/6j6Hlvoh

 

[Adedede]

Hello everyone!
I'm pretty emotional writing what I'm about to write, not gonna lie.
2K wins finally reached, I'll also post a commented video of the last matches.

I'll celebrate with a better post later, especially to thank from the bottom of my heart those who helped me on this incredible journey

Picture proof

 

[greentyphlosion]

So I'm currently planning out my Battle Tower Singles team and I'd appreciate some advice.

I'm going, as mentioned, with a Dragon-Water-Steel core similar to the one I used in the Palace: I'll be sticking with Dragonite and Suicune, but making Dragonite a bulky DDer this time. Since OHKO users posed a very real threat (and since they tend to be a pain in general) I figured my Steel-type had to be a Sturdy Pokemon to block them.

My initial thoughts were either Steelix or Aggron, perhaps as enfeeblers/pivots rather than direct attackers. Mud-Slap is a good option on either and Steelix has access to Screech and Torment while Aggron can utilise Thunder Wave, Icy Wind, and Counter. Both have their merits in terms of movepools.

Much as I prefer Aggron in terms of aesthetics and its more expansive movepool, there's no getting around the fact that it just... ain't that good. It blocks Fissure but most of the Pokemon that carry that have Earthquake anyway. It's doubly weak to Fighting and isn't strong enough to KO a lot of stuff. So as much as I've been wanting to use it, I'm pretty much forced to conclude it's a non-starter.

The issue, though, is that Steelix... has most of the same problems. It's destroyed by Surf, doesn't like taking Earthquakes, and its stats are generally unimpressive outside of its monstrous Defence. It can't really do much against the Regis or the Latis who pose quite a threat to the other team members.

So the only other Steels with Sturdy are... Skarmory, Forretress, Magneton. I'm reluctant to consider Skarmory since it doesn't synergise as well with Dragonite and Suicune, but it does get a bunch of useful support moves. Forretress was an option I hadn't even considered but it gets a bunch of interesting moves like Spikes, Reflect, and even Refresh (from XD). Unfortunately it doesn't get Mud-Slap or Flash, though. Meanwhile Magneton obviously hates Earthquake but has a great niche in that it can reliably KO Walrein, Lapras, and Dewgong, and of course learns Flash as well as Screech.

Any thoughts on which of these would fit best, and how to optimise them? This is all theory until lockdown's over, though... most of my games are currently at my parent's house at the other end of the country. Ugh.

 

[Kommo-o]

So I'm currently planning out my Battle Tower Singles team and I'd appreciate some advice.

I'm going, as mentioned, with a Dragon-Water-Steel core similar to the one I used in the Palace: I'll be sticking with Dragonite and Suicune, but making Dragonite a bulky DDer this time. Since OHKO users posed a very real threat (and since they tend to be a pain in general) I figured my Steel-type had to be a Sturdy Pokemon to block them.

The issue, though, is that Steelix... has most of the same problems. It's destroyed by Surf, doesn't like taking Earthquakes, and its stats are generally unimpressive outside of its monstrous Defence. It can't really do much against the Regis or the Latis who pose quite a threat to the other team members.

You severely underestimate how effective Steelix is. Steel / Ground is one of the best defensive typings in the game (9 resistances, 2 immunities, Sturdy and the only status ailment that affects it is burn) and while it certainly is weak to Surf, it tanks any non-STAB Earthquake so it isn't true that he doesn't likes to take them, he can tank them when it's actually necessary. The best set it can use is the Torment / Protect set but with full investment in Special Defense. Adedede has been using it some time in here with a Bold nature, but I found it more effective with a Calm nature and full Special Defense investment. It outshines the CB set which isn't a bad set but it beats a lot of stuff 1-v-1 that relies on a single coverage move to hit Steelix, like Metagross 2/3, to the point where it doesn't even needs an attacking move because it guarantees set-up opportunities for its teammates.

I can't speak of Magneton since I never used, but don't dismiss Steelix just like that. It's much better than the other Sturdy users and knowing how to use it will lead to great results while worth mentioning that it synergizes very well with Suicune.

 

[greentyphlosion]

You severely underestimate how effective Steelix is. Steel / Ground is one of the best defensive typings in the game (9 resistances, 2 immunities, Sturdy and the only status ailment that affects it is burn) and while it certainly is weak to Surf, it tanks any non-STAB Earthquake so it isn't true that he doesn't likes to take them, he can tank them when it's actually necessary. The best set it can use is the Torment / Protect set but with full investment in Special Defense. Adedede has been using it some time in here with a Bold nature, but I found it more effective with a Calm nature and full Special Defense investment. It outshines the CB set which isn't a bad set but it beats a lot of stuff 1-v-1 that relies on a single coverage move to hit Steelix, like Metagross 2/3, to the point where it doesn't even needs an attacking move because it guarantees set-up opportunities for its teammates.

I can't speak of Magneton since I never used, but don't dismiss Steelix just like that. It's much better than the other Sturdy users and knowing how to use it will lead to great results while worth mentioning that it synergizes very well with Suicune.

Interesting, thanks.

I've actually never used Steelix at all (even in an in-game playthrough). On paper it just looks distinctly average which I admit did cause me to write it off. That said I did enjoy reading the Team Azure writeup, so I'm happy to give it a try. Protect/Torment/Mud-Slap and a fourth move I'm yet undecided on seems a good shout, but I'll decide the moveset for sure later on.

I'll get breeding then!

 

[Adedede]

greentyphlosion Since we're talking about defensive Steelix, I think it may be interesting to share a team I'm working on again right now, in which I've started to use that Lix set some time ago.

Here is the old team

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...r-discussion-and-records.3648697/post-8267514

I've lately modified this team, so I think it's time to (re)share it:



Mount Sinai 2.0

The team

Mannequin (Moltres) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 52 Def / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Morning Sun
- Protect

Rotten (Steelix) (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpD / 164 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Rest
- Roar
- Torment

Ugly (Blissey) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 28 SpD / 172 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled
- Defense Curl / Seismic Toss / Growl / Protect

Teambuilding process

This team is a hardcore full Stall without a single clear wincon. I'm really proud of this team because it features what probably are my best original ideas and additions to Gen 3 Frontier metagame: fast Blissey, full-support Torment Sturdy Steel, MOLTRES(!!!).
I've kept the classic archetype of Steel + dedicated Special sponge (needed vs. Waters) + fast Ground Immunity/Fight resistance, the same composition first used by Kommo-o in Team Azure and then found even in my IRIDESCENCE and Kommo's DDW:

• Stalling Moltres is my beloved creation and my real love, and in Battle Tower it truly shines. This monster can outspeed and stall 90% of Tower foes (of course one must watch out for Quick Claw!), completely stopping the most dangerous threats to stall like Marowak, Breloom, Machamp and mixed Fire Types. This non-attacking set is the best one Moltres can run for this team, since Will-O-Wisp allows me to win vs. threathening Double Team users with Lefties immune to Toxic (mostly Registeel 4/5) after just one hit, and the halved Atk from Burn is always sweet, giving room to reliably setup a Substitute before enemies faint. Timid with 236+ Spe EVs lets Moltres reach 154, outspeeding the huge pool of neutral Nature 100 BST 255 Spe EVs, while 220 HP EVs are required to reach a Lefties number (193 HP). The rest is put into Def, allowing Moltres to make really bulky Substitutes factoring Burn Atk drop. I also think that every solid stall team should run a Protect lead for scouting advantages, and Moltres is arguably the best;

• This Steelix set is a copy of my current Skarm (a full support Torment Sturdy Steel first created for IRIDESCENCE) and it's the true glue of the team and my main switch-in for Normal and Rock STAB (from dangerous Quick Claw holders, of course). Swap stalling between it and Moltres can destroy even the worst Armaldo 3, while thanks to Torment (best move in Tower), this Steelix can even win 1v1 vs. Rhydon (!!!). The combination of Protect and Torment is deadly, Chesto Rest is the best way to recover available and Roar is godsend vs. Espeon 4 and dangerous Salamence/other DDancers if they appear in leading position (otherwise they will face one of my Status users behind a Substitute). This spread is a bit slower than my previous one, sitting at 71 Spe and still outpacing Snorlax/Armaldo/Rhydon/Regis (basically everything it has to outspeed). I use an uninvested Bold Nature because it's pretty mandatory considering the potential super-effective Physical hits it may have to tank from threats like Salamence while landing a needed Torment. The rest is put in its low SpD since additional Def investment doesn't achieve nothing in particular, while with 92 SpD EVs Espeon 4 has just 1,4% chances of 3HKO (!);

• In my previous version I used Blissey as a setup sweeper with a classic set from newer gens' Chansey: Minimize + Seismic Toss. Sadly, in Gen 3 this Pokémon is a completely unreliable "sweeper", since there are a lot of Aerial Ace users (even really dangerous ones, like for example Salamence 4 with Dragon Dance), and most of all Seismic Toss doesn't have enough PPs to break through setup Rest Pressure users and Double Team spammers. Factoring this, I've decided to run Toxic on Bliss to form the unresisted Poison/Burn Statuses combo with Moltres, basically ensuring the win vs. every foe (even at +6 Evasion) once a single attempt from one of these moves hits. This pink blob has my original IRIDESCENCE fast spread, keeping Timid instead of Bold for that extra HP/SpD points vs. Special threats and with Lum Berry because Leftovers is sadly taken to keep momentum vs. Status users and healing Bliss vs. Synchronize users when she poisons them. 106 is the most blessed speedtier a Blissey can reach, for real.

I think that choosing the right Bliss' 4th moveslot will be gamechanging for the perfect balance, as Growl was on my IRIDESCENCE's Blissey.
Protect synergizes with Torment Lix and allows Blissey to expand the pool of enemies she can stall out, while Growl helps the rest of the team a lot. Defense Curl is the chosen move right now, but I think I'll drop it because, even at +6 Def, Bliss is of course forced out by almost every Steel or Poison Type, since she has just Toxic to harm foes, even if 64 PPs (as much as Growl) is a big bonus indeed.
Lastly, Seismic Toss helps a lot in bad scenarios where I could be forced to sacrifice Moltres (maybe vs. a Quick Claw Walrein 4 / Whiscash 4, even if they really need a good mountain of hax), but otherwise it seems a bit subpar while giving the best overall utility.

This team is really hard to use, not gonna lie. Without a clear wincon, the match must always be played at full concentration and perfectly planned, scouting not only enemies Pokémons but also Trainer's pool. For example, Moltres should always be behind a Sub when a new foe comes in, since it can then try to gain an advantageous position on Turn 1 immediately using W-o-W vs. Salamence / Metagross / Armaldo / Espeon.
Keep in mind that A.I. tends to have random move picks when PPs are low (and that's basically why a Shed stall doesn't work that effectively), so you always have to pseudo-setup with Substitute (and Defense Curl with Bliss basing on my current moveset) without risking to eat any dangerous move, aware that an unpredicted A.I.'s selection can happen.
It's not user friendly and IRIDESCENCE is faster and easier to approach, but I'm totally in love with this squad.

Exportable version

https://pokepast.es/c4d72dcabfbbb170

To sum up, I'm really glad that the work we've lately done as a community is helpful and inspiring.
It always amazes me to see how far this thread has gone since Team Azure started everything.
To be honest, back in days I had the feeling that some of my insights, like the aformentioned Torment Sturdy user or Moltres itself, could have become useful and some sort of trending for a few Tower's challengers, but I had never expected the pool of players and this thread itself to grow that much and it's really a pleasure.
In the past just "fat" high BST teams were used (and I had played this kind of stuff too of course), but the records were not even close to current ones, while recently I've mostly played "combo" or stalling teams (using Pokémon without a single attacking move at all in every built I've made) and I'm firmly convinced that this kind of approach is the best by far.
For new builders, my only suggestions are to try out as much as you can, to read tips and experiences from veteran players as much as you can, and of course don't be afraid to test out and share the strangest ideas (even on Discord)!

 

[Taylor]

So I got the streak and I was talking on Discord and discovered I could go much further but I have 63 wins and Gold Symbol in Battle Arena finally.

Video

Forgive me for trying to video with one hand :)

Team

https://pokepast.es/3d5831c010e2f15a Salamence didn't have best HP IVs so I had to invest a good 50 or so just to get over 324 for Leftovers. Starmie basically took both my dragons to 40 wins where I had to utilize Inimidate and Calm Mind to deal with anything physical or special, and approproriately sweep with Dragon Dance/CM or just attack for more damage. The only times I lost were against critical Ice Beam or Quick Claw/Brightpowder tactics.

 

[Kommo-o]

Just got 72 wins in a row in the Battle Arena with Gengar, Latios, Heracross. Will update with video. Insanely lucky until the end. Constant 10% paras, freezes and dodged all the sheer colds. Lost to a Zapdos/Regirock/Entei team. Latios got quick clawed explosion by Regirock, Heracross lost to Entei.

Initially, I had Scizor in the 3rd slot, but that team lost 5 times (Arcanine, Houndoom, Typhlosion, Exploud with Overheat, Bright powder Ampharos with fire punch). Gengar with Hasty and it's given ev spread outspeeds everything but Aerodactyl (1 and 2), Dugtrio, Sceptile, Jolteon 4 and Crobat 3/4). I usually get a favorable matchup in most cases as Gengar either gets the explosion off, allowing me to trade, or gets the SE coverage on something. If it's a special wall, I immediately boom. No nonsense. Does about 80-90% to Snorlax, just about guarantee oko on anything that doesn't resist it. Arguably, you can reduce the evs on attack just a bit, because sometimes Gengar's special attacks could use a little more juice. Like barely missing out on the oko on Rhydon with Ice punch.

Latios is usually in my second slot, just bulky enough to withstand most SE hits and dish back in return. If Latios got crit on Metagross shadow balls/crit on ice beams, my run ends earlier. Lum berry allows me to set up on things that I know carry around status moves and cures untimely freezes and paras.

Heracross is my physical attacker and destroys special walls. Jolly>Adamant for Arena, as you can't switch out and you absolutely need the speed. Here's a list of things that Jolly Hera out speeds that Adamant doesn't: All variants of Arcanine, Houndoom, Rapidash, Xatu, Charizard 4, Flygon 3/4, Salamence 2, Typhlosion 2 and 4 as the main ones). I actually did notice the slight decrease in power, as EQ couldn't oko something like Ampharos, which Adamant assuredly okos. But after losing to constantly losing to fire types with Scizor, I knew I had to go Jolly.

https://pokepast.es/b4d43a511b48c466

Threats to this team
Crobat 3/4 (The ones that are faster and carry shadow ball, aerial ace)
Aerodactyl (1 and 2- Latios takes it on if healthy. Gengar as well, but doesn't get the oko)
Metagross
Gengar( some carry ice punch, psychic or destiny bond)- speed ties with Latios.
Quick Claw users with oko moves
Adamant Dusclops with shadow ball
Starmie- I explode if Gengar is out vs it, Latios takes it on if healthy, Heracross loses to versions with psychic

Edit: Tried to upload the video, but it's over 2 hours long... I'll just get the battle vs Greta.

For Battle 1: Best to lead with Latios/Heracross/Gengar. Latios crushes Heracross with psychic, loses to Umbreon and shedninja. If you miss Rock slide twice vs Shedninja, hopefully fire punch Gengar can get it.

For Greta Battle 2: Gengar, Heracross, Latios. Boom on Umbreon, Umbreon koed by Heracross with Brick break. If Gengar beats Hera, Latios cleans up with psychic.

https://kapwi.ng/c/6j6Hlvoh

Did you made this run with Heracross on the Battle Arena at Lv.50?

 

[Adedede]

Did you made this run with Heracross on the Battle Arena at Lv.50?

If you are implying that Heracross doesn't learn Megahorn until lv.53, this is also a move that can be passed on Egg if a Male parent is an Heracross that knows it.
Basically, an Egg Heracross can legitimately learn Megahorn at lv.5, while a Wild one cannot until 53.

Sources:

just did it myself

Since just one move has passed from Male parent to Egg, I've failed a few tries until I used as a parent a Male that only knew Megahorn.
It's different, for example, for Agility Metagross at lv.50, because Metagross learns Agility at lv.66 and sadly this move is not in Beldum learnset, so it cannot be passed through breeding and then this set is illegal.

It may not be that immediate and I don't know if submenceisop has done these passages (that are really easy, for sure way easier than RNG a flawless Hera), and since his Hera is in a Poké Ball looking at the video (other Balls of course are not possible if breeded), his set is potentially legal.
We have on leaderboards players that admitted to use fake Pokémons with legal sets, so I don't think it should be an issue.