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Gen V Initial NU Metagame Thread

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Pinsir is one of the most versatile threats and is the hardest to defend against. Scarf isn't totally necessary since Pinsir wants as much power as possible to muscle its way through its checks, and base 85 is actually "fast" in NU. Basically Pinsir can be summarized thusly:

Pinsir@Item
Jolly / Mold Breaker
252 atk / 252 spe / 4 hp
X-Scissor
Close Combat
Earthquake
Swords Dance / Stealth Rock / Stone Edge

For SD, use Life Orb or Leftovers or Sash
For SR, use Sash and use it as a lead (it beats most other leads 1 on 1)
For Stone Edge, use Band or Scarf

In my opinion SD is the hardest to deal with since the defacto Bug/Fighting checks in NU (Weezing/Muk) get dominated by SD Mold Breaker Earthquake.
 
Also seconding the "Pinsir is beast" sentiment. Mold Breaker is the superior option since there are a lot of threats and stops to Pinsir that fall to a Mold Breaker Earthquake (Weezing and Eelektross, for example). It also has the benefit of allowing OHKO's on Sturdy users like Aggron and Bastiodon with CC or EQ.

Like the poster above already said, Pinsir appreciates as much power as it can get. Scarf variants are generally ineffective since Pinsir really relies on switching moves to get good coverage with his STAB.

That said, he's definitely one of the MVP's of my team.
 
Pinsir is also SR weak, and it might just be me but I'm not really a fan of having an SR weak Scarfer. Pinsir also doesn't hit nearly as hard as things like Sawk do because STAB X-Scissor =/= STAB CC. SD is by far its best set because being choice-locked sucks when you have solid coverage and a great ability to abuse.

Glad Pinsir's finally getting some props.
 
is it me or is Rock Polish Torterra a beast? He gets great moves with some pretty nice coverage to (wood) hammer his way through some of the top threats. Opportunities to set up come by quite often due to his high bulk and the fact that slower bulky waters are pretty common (cough Slowking cough)

I personally run a spread of 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe / with a Jolly nature holding leftovers. He has enough speed after a rock polish to take on common scarf abusers and his power is insane due to his strong attacks and his high attack stat of 317. He has some problems with pokemon like Weezing and Toxic Spikes are a pain when you're using Wood Hammer, but overall he's a pretty threatening sweeper who can take on common threats with EdgeQuake coverage and Wood Hammer.
 
TickingSeedotBomb said:
is it me or is Rock Polish Torterra a beast? He gets great moves with some pretty nice coverage to (wood) hammer his way through some of the top threats. Opportunities to set up come by quite often due to his high bulk and the fact that slower bulky waters are pretty common (cough Slowking cough)

I personally run a spread of 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe / with a Jolly nature holding leftovers. He has enough speed after a rock polish to take on common scarf abusers and his power is insane due to his strong attacks and his high attack stat of 317. He has some problems with pokemon like Weezing and Toxic Spikes are a pain when you're using Wood Hammer, but overall he's a pretty threatening sweeper who can take on common threats with EdgeQuake coverage and Wood Hammer.
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Yeah, Torterra is really good. Weezing is a fullstop to it and bulkier mons like Mesprit can live a Wood Hammer and one-shot it with Ice Beam but aside from those I've had little standing in its way.
 
Same. But what's the best item for it? Leftovers... you lack power, but life orb just adds to the ridiculous recoil damage from Wood Hammer. Your thoughts?

Also, Musharna is amazing against Weezing as it would prefer to take a WoW as opposed to a toxic from something else. It also has access to moonlight, CM, and a bunch of other good moves! Shadow Ball can help against Mesprit, but I run HP fighting personally. Musharna is like the Cresselia of this tier ha ha!
 
Rock Polish really is one of the better sweepers in the metagame, only reliably stopped 100% of the time by Weezing.
 
Is Toxic Spikes on Roselia and Scolipede worth it anymore? With those two (as well as less-common stuff like Amoonguss) being pretty common in the meta, TSpikes are pretty easy to absorb, and Spikes becomes more valuable than the other hazard every day. What do you guys think?
 
I like Leftovers on it anyway because the recoil + hazards and any extraneous damage you take when setting up really builds up. Seed Bomb doesn't hit nearly as hard as Wood Hammer and when you use LO + Seed Bomb, Life Orb still cuts into your HP when you use Stone Edge/EQ which kinda makes the "lack of recoil" worthless imo.

Honestly I greatly prefer to set up Spikes anyway. Toxic Spikes hardly helps with anything anyway because the metagame seems really... switch-dependant anyway. Spikes also definitely helps wear down everything so much faster than Toxic Spikes, whereas it's not even worth setting up Toxic Spikes until their Poison-type is gone.

Plus Scolipede is cool in the sense that it can even sweep with its own entry hazards.
 
I thought Toxic Spikes are only really good if you're using a stall team, or the opponent's using a stall team, or you're using some very specific things. Some cases, tspikes can even hurt you because you can't paralyze opposing offensive threats, etc. I think the only thing in NU that possibly viable that benefits from Tspikes to begin with is... Walrein?

Yeah idk if tspikes were even good to begin with.
 
Yea. Toxic Spikes aren't as good as Spikes imo. Poison types are more common down here than in other tiers and it's just not worth it imo.

Also, thanks Zebraiken!
 
Honestly I hate Pinsir in this metagame. Not because it's really good and it slaughters my teams, but because I've used it extensively and the thing sucks ass.

When I use scarf, it doesn't have nearly enough power. When I use band, it gets outsped and destroyed. The Stealth Rock weakness means it comes in like once and dies.

I don't know, but Pinsir just blows. On the other hand, Torterra is like the greatest thing in the metagame. Just saying.
 
Honestly, people need to realize this: Scarf Sawk has 442 Speed. I have swept so many people without thinking just by spamming Close Combat because people don't know its speed stat, I'm honestly getting sick of it. Learn the speed tiers. kthnxbai :3.
 
Totally agree with waterwarrior. Sawk is an amazing scarfer. Close combat, stone edge and earthquake are really all it needs to sweep. 442 speed is insane, and it has freaking sturdy as well. For crying out loud. STURDY. I don't think sawk could become any more awesome and terrifying than it already is.
 
I haven't really joined the NU Metagame yet, but I was hoping to. What about Leavanny? 103 base attack is decent and 92 base speed lets her outspeed things like Sawk and Pinsir. She can Baton Pass a Swords Dance or she can use it with STAB Leaf Blade and X-Scissor. Any opinions?
 
Oh My Biscuits said:
I haven't really joined the NU Metagame yet, but I was hoping to. What about Leavanny? 103 base attack is decent and 92 base speed lets her outspeed things like Sawk and Pinsir. She can Baton Pass a Swords Dance or she can use it with STAB Leaf Blade and X-Scissor. Any opinions?
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There is almost no point in using Leavanny when Leafeon is in the tier. Leafeon has a higher base attack, speed, has more bulk and a better typing. It only doesn't have the STAB X-Scissor, but that barely matters.
 
waterwarrior said:
Honestly, people need to realize this: Scarf Sawk has 442 Speed. I have swept so many people without thinking just by spamming Close Combat because people don't know its speed stat, I'm honestly getting sick of it. Learn the speed tiers. kthnxbai :3.
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Counter: Trick Room Slowking.
 
Another counter is Musharna. IIRC Stone Edge only does like 25% with bold and max Def / HP imo Musharna is underrated, but I can understand why it isn't used as much as it should. Toxic kills it and it has competition with Slowking for a team slot who has the superior Slack Off and Regenerator
 
Xephyr said:
Honestly I hate Pinsir in this metagame. Not because it's really good and it slaughters my teams, but because I've used it extensively and the thing sucks ass.

When I use scarf, it doesn't have nearly enough power. When I use band, it gets outsped and destroyed. The Stealth Rock weakness means it comes in like once and dies.

I don't know, but Pinsir just blows. On the other hand, Torterra is like the greatest thing in the metagame. Just saying.
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Pinsir shouldn't be choiced. If you do its almost entirely outclassed by Sawk: its main STAB is 2/3 as strong as Sawk's, it's SR weak instead of SR resistant, and it doesn't have Sturdy either. Pinsir is best as a Swords Dance variant so it can abuse its great ability and solid coverage to the maximum.

I do agree that Leavanny is probably outclassed but STAB X-Scissor is actually worth something - you hit a lot of the premier walls in NU with your two STABs alone. Think: Musharna, Rhydon, Slowking, Lanturn, Quagsire. Plus you get to nab popular stuff with X-Scissor too, like Mesprit and Exeggutor. I'm pretty sure it's still outclassed because Leafeon isn't SR weak and has better defenses to handle stuff but Leavanny isn't worth instant dismissal, I think.
 
I have some calcs, using Musharna to compare.

Leavanny 252 Atk +2 X-Scissor vs. 252/252 Bold Musharna = 82-96%
Leafeon 252 Atk +2 X-Scissor vs. 252/252 Bold Musharna = 57-67%
Leavanny 252 Atk +2 Leaf Blade vs. 252/252 Bold Musharna = 46-54%
Leafeon 252 Atk +2 Leaf Blade vs. 252/252 Bold Musharna = 48-57%

Leafeon hits harder but with SE STAB's and coverage it's really a moot point. I'd run Leafeon simply for better stats and typing.
 
TickingSeedotBomb said:
Another counter is Musharna. IIRC Stone Edge only does like 25% with bold and max Def / HP imo Musharna is underrated, but I can understand why it isn't used as much as it should. Toxic kills it and it has competition with Slowking for a team slot who has the superior Slack Off and Regenerator
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guess what? everybody forgets that musharna has access to the restalk combo, so toxic doesnt even kill it lol.
 
DragonTamerChris said:
There is almost no point in using Leavanny when Leafeon is in the tier. Leafeon has a higher base attack, speed, has more bulk and a better typing. It only doesn't have the STAB X-Scissor, but that barely matters.
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I've actually tested Leavanny for a while and I must say while OHKOing every major Psychic-type in the tier after an SD + SR is pretty cool, it can't take a hit to save its life, hates hazards + status, and is a bit too slow to BP its boost out if it gets in trouble.
 
Benny in a Jet said:
I have some calcs, using Musharna to compare.
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Because something rarely seen (and in NU, that's saying something) makes a perfect thing to compare usefulness on.

And before I get flamed, I'm not saying Musharna's bad, I'm saying its never seen (which you can't argue no matter how hard you try).
 
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