Gen V RNG Breeding Guide (gone again)

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I HAVEN'T UPDATED THIS GUIDE YET, BUT RNG REPORTER 9.8 ALLOWS YOU TO SEARCH FOR SHINY EGGS INSTEAD OF MANUALLY COMBING SEEDS FROM GIFT SPREADS. (You still may need to check the inheritance of the spreads it finds at this point, though)
This is a guide that will ultimately allow you to hatch flawless shiny eggs using standard RNG abuse on your Black or White retail game cartridge! You need no emulator or external device! Just your computer and your DS and game cartridge! :)

If you need real-time help, it may be best to check #smogonwifi on IRC.

Note: If you use a Power Item, you will get results different from those listed in RNG Reporter. This may include but is not limited to differing inheritance profiles, differing natures, differing abilities, differing genders, frame shifts, and differing shininess than what is reported.

Also remember, it's much more likely that you're doing something wrong than it is that RNG Reporter is wrong. Please don't complain that RNG Reporter is wrong until you have tried multiple times with an aberrant result, and provide enough info (basically, everything you put into RNG reporter) to figure out what's going on. 9/10 times (or more) it's going to be an error on your part :P

If you're asking for help finding your SSF, you'll need to tell me your egg's IVs, parent's IVs, and your full seed as well as the gender, nature, ability, and characteristic of the hatched egg.

  1. This Post: Introduction and Prerequisites
  2. Second Post: Overkill Method (Start here if you have no idea what to do)
  3. Third Post: PIDRNG Primer - Controlling Nature, Ability, Gender, etc.
  4. Fourth Post: Genetic Method -- Basis for breeding Shiny Pokemon
  5. Fifth Post: Easily breeding Shiny Pokemon with the Genetic Method
  6. Sixth Post: Determining your Shifted Starting Frame (SSF) When Using an Everstone

***If you don't know what you're doing at all start with Post 1 and you should follow through Methods 1 and 2 before attempting 3/4.

***If you already understand PIDRNG, I recommend you read my PIDRNG primer (post 3) anyway since I recommend a few different things for more consistent results, and I introduce terminology and abbreviations I reference in the following posts. After that, you can skip to 3/4 at your leisure without any problems, I think.

Just remember...

Statistically, Your Pokémon Game HATES You
You just can't get those battle-ready 'mons easily on your DS by chance (most of the time, anyway). Luckily, Smogon has some super-geniuses who have cracked the code on how your game generates Pokémon, and you can use that to your advantage. I'm not one of those super-geniuses, but I did struggle with the RNG for a while and I've developed some methods for RNG breeding that you may find useful.

So, you already know how to standard RNG abuse for stationary legends and wild Pokemon with specific IV spreads but RNG breeding is giving you the shivers? Well, I had the same problem, and I've noticed it seems to be confusing a lot of people, so I'd like to help you out with some tips, tricks, and ways to make the statistically unlikely become your reality!

This is my first time writing a guide, and I apologize if some of my wording is funny.

There are a few prerequisites to standard abuse RNG breeding in Gen V Pokemon games, however!

  • The latest version of RNG Reporter. You can probably do the same thing for PPRNG, but you'll need to know the differences in the interfaces I guess. Either way, this information may be useful to you.
  • Knowledge of DS callibration and parameter finding in Gen V for standard abuse
  • Knowledge of how to RNG wild Pokemon and stationary legendaries in Gen V (hitting your seed) using standard abuse
  • On that note, you need a DS Lite or earlier. If you have a 3ds or DSi, well. Sorry, it won't work! You'll have to learn C-gear abuse, which I don't know yet.
  • Patience
  • $25
  • Ok, so you don't need $25, but you do need all the others.

If you don't know how to do any of this, head over to The 5th Gen PRNG Help Thread where you can find all the info you need.

I also recommend the following two Youtube videos by bearsfan092:

RNG Abuse Part 1
RNG Abuse Part 2

They're also linked in the help thread, but they're an excellent resource. I RNG'd my first Pokemon in B/W by following the first video listed, and it was amazing :)

Special Thanks: OmegaDonut, Kaphotics, and all the other amazing people who made RNG abuse possible. Also to bearsfan092 for his easy-to-follow video instructions.

If you still don't know how to hit seeds/calibrate for your DS parameters in Gen V and catch wild Pokemon with specific spreads, then gtfo this thread and go to one of the resources I posted.

From here on I'll assume you know how to do that.

Next Post: Overkill Method For Flawless Breeding
Method 1: Building a Sand Castle with a Bulldozer

or, How to Give a Statistician a Stroke.

With this method, we will prevent the egg inheritance system from generating any IVs we don't want by ensuring both parents have the target IVs in all stats and all IVs on the inheritance frame match our target spreads.
It's a wasteful method, but it works and is very easy since you don't have to worry too much about PIDRNG and NPCs won't bother you so much (or at all, really). This is a good method if you just want your flawless egg now and don't want to be arsed with calibrating starting frames in PIDRNG or, well, learning anything particularly new.

OVERKILL METHOD: Letting RNG Reporter do the work for us.

Thought: *
Effort: **
Time: *****
Shiny: If you're lucky or particularly tenacious.

Required: **Target IV spread on Frame 8 of MTIVRNG.
**(Optional, but recommended) Target IV spread on frame 1-7 of MTIVRNG.

Advantages: **Fairly easy, no need to bother with too much PIDRNG advancement if you don't mind hatching a few eggs.
**Guaranteed every egg will have your target IV spread as long as you hit your seed.
**Works great for Pokemon catchable in Unova, although you'd only bother if you really need an egg move, or just want a hatched 'mon for some reason.

Disadvantages: **The chances of a particular spread appearing on any particular frame 8 is 1/1073741824, so you may be searching seeds for a while.
**Unless you're lucky, or abused your TID/SID (in which case you probably don't need this guide), don't count on this method for shiny flawless eggs, as the chance of having a shiny spread in PIDRNG on the same seed as your IV spread on frame 8 with the proper nature and ability in the first 1000 frames of PIDRNG is something like 2.8 x 10^-11, or 3 in 100 billion. You have better things to do with your life than listen to your Chatot say "Poop" 4000 times, so that's what the other methods are for.
**If you can't RNG in Gen IV, it will be much harder to get parents if the required Pokemon is not available in Unova.

Step 1: Find a seed for your eggs.

Since you have already callibrated and found your DS parameters, I'm going to assume you know what the main screen of RNG reporter (the one with RNG Reporter 9.XX BETA in the title bar) and Time Finder are.
We're going to breed a flawless Venipede with Spikes/Toxic Spikes egg moves, for an example.

IVs 31/31/31/31/31/31
Toxic Spikes

In Time finder, select Method 5 (Standard Seed) and set the min and max frames to 8. Set the Encounter type to Gift Pokemon. Hit ==31 on all of the stats, after all we're searching for a flawless spread. Note that the chance of this appearing is so low, we may have to search multiple months to find a seed. Optionally, if you don't care about flawlessness, you can set the attacking stat you don't plan on using to "None" and it will search for all 31/31/31/X/31/31 spreads, for example, which are much more common.
Open the 5th Gen DS Parameters tab and ensure that keypresses are set to 3. If your L/R buttons are disabled, skip them, but this will severely hinder your results.

Let time finder chug away for a while. If you don't find anything, change the month and try again.

This can be infuriating. Although, it is notable that if you're not interested in directly manipulating gender and nature, it doesn't HAVE to be on frame 8. If you find a spread on, frame 12, for example, you could just use normal advancements to push forward to frame 4, and then eggs would be generated on frame 12. Our ultimate goal with the methods which deviate from this one, though, is shiny flawless eggs, so I'm not going to cover this, since you can't really get shiny eggs this way.

Step 2: Find a seed for your parents (Optional)

This can be easier, because you don't need it to be on a specific frame. I usually set the min frame to 1 and max frames to 6, so I only have to walk 128 steps with a max of 5 Pokemon in my party. Note that I set this to "optional." That's because you can just use your frame 8 seed for your eggs, and advance the MTIVRNG to frame 8 by walking 896 steps with a single Pokemon in your party.

Step 3: Capture Parents

I assumed you already know how to capture flawless Pokemon because this step I don't really feel like explaining when there are plenty of guides on the internet already. I've provided links to at least one of them, so you should learn that first. It's not very hard. In fact, it's mind-numbingly easy. So just grab a coffee or a matcha latte or whatever it is you enjoy drinking learn how to do that. Apply those skills to catching parents for your flawless egg.
In this case, we need a female Venipede and a male Pineco. Hey, both appear in Unova. You should use a synchronizer or PIDRNG control or heavy praying to get at least one with the nature you want your baby to have, so you can use the everstone when breeding. We'll need to raise Pinceo to level 28 to learn Spikes, and then evolve it into Forretress at level 31 to teach it Toxic Spikes at the move relearner.

Step 4: Like they do on the Discovery Channel

Place your parents in the daycare. Give the correct-natured parent an everstone, unless you're feeling particularly in the favor of some deity or you plan to PIDRNG your nature, which you can, I just don't see why you would bother. Hop on your bike and then run around on route 3 until the old man tries to solicit you for illicit activities. DON'T TALK TO HIM. Walk up to him and save your game. Then turn it off.

Step 5: Hit your seed!

Hit your seed as if you were going to capture a wild Pokemon. As stated previously, I'm assuming you already know how to do this, so if you don't, I don't know why you're still reading this! After hitting your seed, load your game and pick up your egg (and hope that having its egg ripped out of its clutches didn't scar the parents emotionally somehow). If you want, you can verify that you hit your seed by flying somewhere with high-level Pokemon (you can fly to Victory Road, I think) and immediately catching a wild Pokemon, then checking its IVs. If you hit your seed, the Pokemon you catch should have the IVs from frame one of frames 14-20 of your seed. (From time finder, right click your seed and select "Copy full seed to clipboard." Paste it in the "Seed" box on the main screen of RNG Reporter, select Method 5 (Standard Seed) and hit "Generate" to get a long list of the IV frames generated by your seed).
I usually just hatch the egg though, because I like wasting time, and it's so suspenseful!

Step 6: Play the slots and Profit!

If you did everything right (Including hitting your seed), your Pokemon should have the IV spread for which you were looking. It probably has the wrong ability or nature or something, because the game doesn't like you. In this case, you can either try to control it with PIDRNG (but I doubt you would, since you wouldn't use this method if you were adept at PIDRNG), or you can just try again, flailing randomly before picking up your egg. Statistically, you should only need to hatch 4 eggs for a specific nature + ability on a 2-ability Pokemon.

Don't worry, we'll get there eventually.

Anyway, this is kind of the Windows Vista method of doing this, as it's slow, clunky, kind of annoying, and certain features or goals we want are hard to utilize or require selling your soul to acheive. Luckily, we can tweak this method into something more streamlined.

Next Post: A little more control
Method 2: Controlling the Chaos

or, Making Pseudorandom Lemonade out of Pseudorandom Lemons

ROUTE 3 PIDRNG PRIMER: Nature, Ability, and Gender Manipulation


We're basically doing method 1 + some extra work, so estimate the stars for that :P


  • You must have progressed with the first method up to the point where the day-care man has an egg for you, but you haven't picked it up yet.
  • You must have at least one Chatot with a custom-chatter recorded in your party.
  • Because we're deviating from a specific point in method 1, you should have met all of its prerequisites as well!

Step 1: Know some Background Info!

Unlike the MTIVRNG, the PIDRNG, which controls the Nature/Ability/Gender/Shininess of your egg, doesn't start at frame 1. To make it worse, randomly-moving NPCS, such as most of the NPCs on Route 3 where you will be picking up your egg, bother the PIDRNG and attempt to foil you. Like I said, the game hates you.

LUCKILY, by saving in the old dude's face, and bringing up the menu immediately as the game loads, we can pretty much ensure the same starting frame.

We are lucky in that looking at Chatot's summary after it has a custom cry allows us to advance the PIDRNG by 1 frame each time we view it, so we can advance the PIDRNG without leaving the menu -- which is beneficial because NPCs don't advance the PIDRNG while we have the game paused.

Step 2: Find your "Shifted Starting Frame"

In RNG Reporter's Time Finder, right click your frame 8 seed and select "Copy full seed to clipboard." On the main screen of RNG reporter, in the Method Box, select "Breeding (BW)" (or BW International if you're for whatever reason using mixed-nation parents) and paste your full seed into the seed box. If you're using a Ditto parent, be sure to select "Ditto Parent." Hit Generate. You'll get a list of frames and a PID, nature, ability, gender, etc. We'll call these "PIFs" or "PID/Inheritance Frames."

I'm not sure exactly how this works, but when you load your game, it shifts the PIDRNG somewhere into the 40-60 range, and this "Starting Frame (SF)" varies from seed to seed, but in areas with no NPCs, is (always? fairly?) consistent for any specific seed. Route 3 has wandering NPCs, however, and their initialization shifts the PIDRNG further by an amount which varies from save to save. The bolded part is important. Anytime you use a new save, you have to redo this step because the NPCs will have different starting positions!

Anyway, we're not even going to find THAT starting frame, because I find there's often a discrepancy between that frame and the frames after we chatter once. So we'll call the Shifted Starting Frame (SSF) the frame we get after loading the menu immediately after starting the game and listening to Chatot once on it summary. I feel this is important, because I began to have much more consistent results after I started using the SSF instead of the SF.

Please note that this is terminology I'm making up for the purposes of this guide, and you probably won't see it elsewhere.

Generally, SFs are in the 40-60 range, for reference. I find that on route 3, SSFs are generally in the 50-55 range, so, that's a good place to start looking.

Load your game, and spam "X starting during the season screen to pull up your menu as fast as possible. Select "Pokemon" and view Chatot's summary. Before you start this, you may want to record something you find interesting for Chatot to say, as you'll be listening to it a lot. My Chatot usually says "Poop," because I have the maturity of a 7-old, but my Chatot has also periodically said many other immature things.

Hit "B" to exit the summary screen and "B" again to exit the Pokemon screen. I suggest you pause here for a second and catch your breath. You must be very fast for this next part! When you're ready, Hit "B" a third time to exit the game menu, and immediately spam A to pick up your egg from the old man.
It's a good idea to verify you hit your seed at this point by flying to Victory road and catching a Pokemon. Its IVs should match up to one of frames 14-20, as described toward the end of method 1.

For this reason, a good party for RNG breeding is a Flame Body Pokemon, 2x Chatot, and a Sweet Scenter

Hatch your egg, and note its gender, nature, and ability. Figure out what ability 0/1 are if your Pokemon has 2 abilities. You can use the Pokedex in RNG reporter, or there are various resources online. So lets say we hatched a Sassy Female Venipede with Poison Point. Poison point is ability "0," so we'd look in RNG reporter for a frame with "Sassy" in the Nature Column, "0" in the Ability Column, and "F" listed in the 50% gender column. The chance this appears is 1%, so we should be able to pinpoint our SSF with no problem. If there's ambiguity, then turn off the DS, hit your seed again, and check the nature again by chattering twice. You can repeat that, increasing the number of chatters as necessary to find a sequence in RNG reporter and find your SSF.

Step 3: Find a suitable frame!

Ok, so you have your SSF! Now we need to find a target in RNG reporter. Let's say we want a female Venipede with Swarm (ability 1) and a Jolly Nature.
So, we would scroll down from our SSF until a frame said "Jolly" in the nature column, "1" in the ability column, and "F" in the gender 50% column.

Suppose our SSF is 51 and we find our desired nature, ability, and gender on frame 105. This would mean, when we load the game we'd need to chatter (105 -51) + 1 times, or 55 times (we add 1 since our SSF required us to chatter once).

Step 4: Chatter away!

Turn off your DS, re-hit your seed, and when you load the menu at start, instead of chattering once, chatter the number of times you figured out in step 3. So, for our venipede, we'd chatter 55 times. Exit the menu as you did to find the SSF and pick up the egg immediately. Verify your seed if you want, and hatch the egg. It should be exactly as you wanted it to be! If not, try again.

It's possible you could have somehow advanced not far enough or too far. Check your result against the neighborhood of frames around your target if you're sure you hit your seed, and try to alter your number of chatters to hit it if necessary. Sometimes this happens.

Next Post: Abusing Inheritance
Method 3: Genetic Method

or, I couldn't think of anything clever

Background: While flawless spreads appear on a specific frame approximately 1 in a billion seeds, eggs are not generated randomly. In fact, 3 IVs come from our parents. Hence, we can control 3 of our egg's IVs, and we only need the RNG to generate 3 numbers. The probability that a frame has X/X/X/31/31/31 or any variation of such is 1/32000 or so, which are much better odds.

GENETIC METHOD: Flawless Babies with Half-flawless Spreads and Selected Parents


Thought: ***
Effort: ***
Time: **
Shiny: This is the basis of the method we'll use to abuse for flawless shiny eggs.

Basically, the theory is that if we can use X/X/X/31/31/31 as our egg frame (or some permutation of it), we can find parents with the desired IVs in the X spots, and find a PIF with the proper inheritance values to create our flawless Pokemon without spending 19 days looking for seeds.

Step 1: Open up time finder and set it up just as you would have for method 1, except instead of selecting all of the IVs to be 31, only set 3 of them to 31 (or whatever you want them to be). When you hit generate, you'll get A LOT OF HITS.

For the remainder of this guide, assume we have set them to None/None/None/31/31/31. If you're doing something different, correct accordingly.

Copy and paste full seeds into the Seed and generate using BW (Breeding). Look for a seed with a PIF with the proper nature, gender, and ability that inherits, HP, Attack, and Defense in a reasonable range. "Reasonable" is relative, but try to aim for something in the 75-100 range for now.

Select an everstone nature. We're going to use the everstone now to make things easier on us as far as finding a target frame! (Actually, if you can find one that doesn't require everstone for the proper ability, it will be easier to find your SSF, but it'll probably require more chattering. It's up to you)

Let's say we want a Jolly female Swarm Venipede again and assume we found a seed, and Jolly/Female/Swarm appears on frame 115, where the Inheritance Profile is Ma/Ma/Fe/--/--/--. The blank spots will have IVs generated from our frame 8 spread (which are all 31s in those positions).

This means that we must find a female Venipede with a 31 in defense and a male Pineco with 31 in HP/Attack. You can easily RNG these in like 10 minutes. If you search for seeds, you'll get results all over the place. Anyway, make sure one of them has the proper nature so you can use an everstone if necessary.

Step 2: Obtain Parents

This is just like in method 1, except your restrictions are much more relaxed. It should be self explanatory :)

Step 3: Breed!

Put the parents in the daycare and wait until the daycare man yells at you. Then, walk up to him and save directly in front of him. Then turn off your game.

Step 4: Find your SSF.

It's harder with the Everstone because if you manage to hatch one with the Everstone nature the first time, it's not always easy to determine where it was. If so, just keep redoing it, increasing the number of chatters by 1 each time until you can match a sequence. There are ways to pinpoint the starting frame without using a sequence, sometimes, through logical deduction: paying close attention to the parents' and baby's IVs, and the inherited stats list on the PIFs in RNG reporter.

You should eventually figure out your SSF and be able to calculate the number of Chatters required to advance to your target!

Step 5: Chatter and hatch!

Nothing's changed here. It's just like before, hit your seed, chatter however many times you need to reach your target. Then pick up your egg, verify your seed, and hatch your perfect Pokemon!

Next: "Easy" Shiny Pokemon!
Method 4: "Smart" Shiny Breeding

NOTE: You can now use Shiny Egg Finder to do most of the grunt work for you listed in this post.

I am typing this from Ljubljana, Slovenia and the keyboard is different so I apologize for anz weirdness.


1.) Open the Shiny Egg Finder tab. Itćs between the time finder and the parameters tab, or at least in that same area.ž

2.) Set the min frame to 70 and the max frame to whatever zzou are willing to chater to. I usuallz set it to around 200.

3.) Input as much of zour parents IVs as you know. If zyou know all of them, then RNG reporter will do the characteristic calculation for you, but I donćt know if itćs right 100 percent of the time, so buyer beware.

4.) Specify as much of nature and abilitz that zou wish.

5.) Hit generate. It assumes zou are saved in front of the daycare man, so it only considers frame 8 spreads. Itćll give zou useable frames.

This is the best fast summary I can give zou right now, as I donćt want to take up much more of the courtesz computerćs time!

Greetings from Ljubljana!

ONE STEP FURTHER: Flawless Shinies via the Genetic Method


Thought: ****
Effort: ***
Time: *****
Shiny: Easiest way to breed shiny eggs, guaranteed!

Background: When we breed for flawlessness AND shininess, we are fighting a losing battle against statistics. Thankfully, the best way of beating statistics over the head with a stick is the law of large numbers.

In other words by inverting the large number law we can see that by doing something with many outcomes an obscenely large number of times, we should eventually achieve an "uncommon" result.

That's why we need the Genetic Method from above. Searching for a "flawless" spread is not likely to give us an easy time when finding a shiny frame without chattering 4000+ times, since we find very few seeds.

BUT, if we search for some permutation of X/X/X/31/31/31, we have magnitudes more seeds and therefore a much higher chance of finding what we're looking for.

  • Everything you needed for the Genetic method above.
  • I cannot help you find your SID. There are many ways you can find it. The easiest way is with an external device, Pokecheck, or IR-GTS. I don't have an external device, and neither Pokecheck nor IR-GTS work for me, so I had to resort to favors XD
Step 1: Setup

Begin the process of searching for seeds as you did in the Genetic Method. We will be searching for X/X/X/31/31/31. Note that you can use any set of 3 IVs, but from now on the guide will assume you are using X/X/X/31/31/31, so alter your own steps accordingly. Now notice the "Shiny Info" on the right side of Time Finder. Input your TID and SID. Select "Shiny Only" and set the max shiny frame to 400 or so. Hit "Generate." You'll notice there's a lot more info when seeds pop up, now. It's mostly useless to you, as egg PIDs don't exactly match.

Step 2: Examine your seeds for a suitable frame and acquire parents.

Start copy/pasting full seeds into "Breeding (BW)" on the main screen. Before you hit "Generate" make sure your TID and SID are in the main screen boxes, and hit "shiny only." It's quite often that the PIFs you find in time finder this way will have a reasonable (<400) frame. Check the nature, gender, ability, and inheritance stats. IN this case, we want to find one that inherits HP, Attack, and Defense from the parents and is reasonably low. (It's okay to use the everstone again).

NOTE: You may have to examine 100+ seeds to find this. It sounds tedious, but it's much better than chattering 7000 times, then realizing you overshot, and having to chatter 7000 times again. It doesn't take too long to copy/paste and hit generate. I can usually find a suitable frame by searching the first hundred returned seeds of a single month. It's all luck and it's much faster than finding a flawless frame with a low shiny PID frame.

Then, you just need to find/RNG parents as we did for the Genetic method.

Step 3: Put in daycare and find your SSF.

There's nothing new here. Absolutely nothing! Just do it as you've done it before.

Step 4: Advance with chatter and pick up your egg.

Chatter the required number of times (Target Frame # - SSF# +1) and pick up your egg. You'll probably want to verify your seed as mentioned before.

If you've done everything right, you should have a shiny egg with the desired traits! Hatch it and revel in your victory :)

Next: Streamlining, Other options, and Hidden Powers (Coming Soon)
Determining your SSF with an Everstone

If you're fortunate enough to hatch an egg that's not your everstone nature, you likely won't have to do anything whatsoever. You'll probably just be able to match nature/gender/ability to the list in RNG Reporter and go on your merry way.
If you do hatch an egg with your everstone nature, there are a few things you can do to figure out your SSF.


  • Knowledge of your parents IVs.
  • A calculator capable of converting hexadecimal to decimal. this one works fine
  • A calculator capable of doing modular arithmetic this one works fine
  • A piece of paper and something to write with.

For the calcualtors, you can use any hexadecimal converter you wish. For modular arithmetic, you can use WolframAlpha, it's pretty good (just type in 499 mod 6, for example, to find the remainder of 499 when divided by 6). You can also use my Python toolbox, but I'll get to that later.

Step 1: Check the Baby's IVs and Compare Inheritance

You can do this with Rare Candies if you want, but I usually just go to the potential judge inside Gear Station in Nimbasa City. It's useful when you're passing down and your seed has known 31 IVs, because he'll tell you which stats "Can't Be Better," instantly. It's then easy to see whether the stat came from your seed or was inherited. As of RNG Reporter 9.79, you can display the parents IVs in the search by right clicking in the window where the Breeding (BW) information is displayed and selecting "Display Parents in Search" (toward the bottom). This allows you to input the parents' IVs and the IVs from the RNG (frame 8 IVs) and will show you the exact IVs of the egg generated on frames.

For example:

My frame 8 spread has X/X/X/31/31/31 and both parents are hexflawless. I hatch a baby with 31/31/X/31/31/31. Then, I only need to look at frames where Attack and Defense were inherited from the parents.

Step 2: Check the PID % 6 vs. the Characteristic

If you can't determine it by inheritance, you can use a mechanic introduced in DPPt, the characteristic to help determine your starting frame. On the summary screen, the characteristic clues you into the highest IV -- it's where it says "Often Dozes Off, Alert to Sounds," etc. In the case of an IV tie, the PID is used to determine the characteristic of the Pokemon, hence, we have an additional "comb" with which to match Pokemon.
In the case of an IV tie, the stat mentioned in the characteristic is determined by the following algorithm:

 [b]Let[/b] I = [H,A,D,S,SA,SD] indexed as HP IV = H = 0, Attack IV= A = 1, Defense IV= D = 2, Speed IV = S = 3,  Special Attack IV = SA = 4, and Special Defense IV = SD = 5 be the list of IVs.
 [b]Let[/b] M = max[I], the maximum IV in I.
 [b]Initialize[/b] T = [], an empty list.

 [b]Scan[/b] the list I.  [b]If[/b] an element in I == (is equal to) M, then add its numerical index (e.g. 0 for HP) to T.
 Now, T is the [b]list of stat indices participating in the IV tie.[/b]
 [b]Let[/b] P = PID, the PID of the Pokemon (a hexadecimal value).
 [b]Let[/b] i = P % 6, the remainder of the PID when divided by 6. i is equal to 0 (HP),1 (Attack),2 (Defense),3 (Speed),4 (Sp. Attack), or 5 (Sp. Defense).  This is the [b]characteristic index stat[/b].

 [b]Scan[/b] T for i.
 [b]If[/b] i is [b]in[/b] T, then i is the [b]characteristic stat[/b].
 [b]If[/b] i is [b]not in[/b] [T], then add 1 to i and mod by 6.  (In other words, If i = 5, then i + 1 = 0)
 [b]Scan[/b] again and continue to add 1 to the index until the [b]characteristic stat[/b] is found.
It's highly possible you don't care about the above, and hence I've hidden it. In either case, we can use this to our advantage.

If you're at this point, you likely have multiple frames you're looking at as a potential starting frame. As long as they have differing PIDs, you should in many cases be able to determine which frame you are with this method.

1.) Convert the PIDs from your frames into decimal form with a calculator.
2.) Find the remainders when the decimal form of your PIDs are divided by 6 (numbers 0-5).

3.) Now, draw a hexagon on your piece of paper. Label the top point 0 and then label the other points, 1,2,3,4,5 going clockwise, like so:

4.) Mark the points of the Hexagon which correspond to the stats which are tied as max on your baby (in most cases, mark the stats which the subway judge says "can't be better.")

Example: My baby has 31s in HP, Attack and Defense.

5.) Mark (diferently) the point of the hexagon which corresponds to the remainder of the PID divided by 6.

Example: The PID % 6 is 3.

6.) Travel clockwise from your remainder mark until you get to a point which is marked as one of your baby's stats. If a baby had that PID and the IVs you reported, that's the stat which would be mentioned in the characteristic. In our example, even though the index stat is Speed, the characteristic will be defined by HP.

For HP it will say Often dozes off for a 31.
For Attack it will say Likes to thrash about for a 31.
For Defense it will say Capable of taking hits for a 31.
For Speed it will say Alert to sounds for a 31.
For Special Attack it will say Mischievous for a 31.
For Special Defense it will say Somewhat Vain for a 31.

If the baby's characteristic doesn't match what this method predicts for a particular frame, then the baby's PID is different and therefore is not generated on that frame. Check the other frames which match and you should be able to determine your SSF.

In some cases, two frames will have the same PID or end up with the same characteristic. In order to figure it out then, you'll have to try to hatch the next egg in the sequence and figure it out that way.

Using my Python Tool:

1.) Download and install Python 3.2 from
2.) Download Poketools (right click and save as) and extract the file into your Python 3.2 directory (usually C:/Python32 on Windows)
3.) The Windows version comes with IDLE (Python GUI). Run it from the START Menu.
4.) Type from poketools import * and hit Enter.
5.) Type IV = [...] which is the list of your IVs. Input them in this order: Hp, Attack, Defense, Speed, Special Attack, Special Defense. If you don't know one of the IVs, and you know it's less than the max IVs, then you can input 'X'.. Example from earlier, I'd input IV = [31,31,31,'X','X','X']
6.) Type PID = 'XXXXXX' where XXXXXX is your PID and hit Enter. Let's pretend that in this hypothetical example the PID is simply 3, so I'd type PID = '3'
7.) Type characteristic_determine(IV,PID) and hit Enter.

It'll return what the characteristic would say for those IVs and that PID. Here's what it looks like:

Same result as the hexagon method above :toast:
If you want to check the same IVs with a different PID, just redefine PID and enter the same command as step 7 :)
Commonly Encountered Issues

It's not working, why am I such a failure?

In this post, we will explore exactly why you are a failure. It's okay though, we like you anyway.

Problem 1: "I can't hit my seed!"

Let me guess! Your seed involves a combination keypress? There are two possible issues here. The first is easy to remedy.

Potential Cause Number 1: You're not holding down the buttons properly. Wow, you're so dumb. Learn to hold down buttons, it's not that hard! This is overkill, but I usually hold down the buttons until I see N's castle pop up and don't press anything else until after that. Actually it's common for the L and R buttons on DS Lites to suck hardcore when they're old. You may need to skip them in your search. You can do that on the "5th Gen DS Parameters" tab in Time Finder.

The second problem is a bit more infuriating, and there may or may not be anything you can do.

Potential Cause Number 2: Timer0 Fluctuation

When you found your DS parameters, one of them is timer0. It's commonly C7F or C80 or something like that. Anyway, it tends to fluctuate on some systems, especially when keypresses are involved.

It has something to do with the timing of the electronics in your DS system. I honestly don't know if there's anything you can do but just keep trying, but I find that if I time my pressing of the "A" button in a certain way, I can keep my seeds hitting consistently. Since this is a hardware issue, it's likely you'll need to learn the ins and outs of your DS on your own.

Problem 2: "I did everything right, and my Pokemon came out shiny, with the right gender and nature, but didn't have the Dream World ability, when RNG reporter said Dream World: True for the frame!"

The current version of RNG reporter, 9.77 Beta, has this problem fixed. Please be sure you are using the latest version.
Posting is open now.
I don't think I'll use more than 8 posts XD

I'll update with more tips tomorrow!

If I left anything important out, please let me know :)
Thank you for this, I'll just find the equivalents for the pprng, but majority of them are the same anyway, so thanks a lot again! :)
I plan to trial this to BREED my first RNG bred Pokemon tonight. I can RNG captures but my Modest Deino was a fluke of using almost flawless parents and letting the odds do the rest for the other 3 IV's....

This guide has summarised nicely what i need to do. thanks.
No problem :)
People seemed to be having a lot of trouble, and I'd gotten it down to where I could do it while on the bus going to class (although photographic memory helps lol), so I figured I'd share my knowledge XD
This thread is just screaming for a sticky. Although, I watched a video on egg RNG'ing previously, and I have to ask, why not save inside the daycare where you CAN manipulate the IV's? You can use the PC to advance the frame there. Not sure if the steps you take inside the daycare will matter though, although if I had to guess, they do. In that case, it would be wise to use the same step pattern each time so PIDRNG manipulation goes smoothly.
When you step outside of the Daycare, the NPCs initialize differently depending on how you have advanced the RNG, leading to a significant amount of unpredictability, especially when attempting to figure out your starting frame.

Using these methods, I'm now able to Hatch a flawless shiny in 2 eggs 80% of the time.

1.) Determine my shifted starting frame. I can usually figure it out by using a python script I wrote that runs on an IV spread and a PID to output the in-game printed characteristic, combined with logical deduction from the inheritance spreads. (Example: If the baby doesn't have flawless speed and my IV spread is X/X/X/31/31/31, then I know there needs to be something listed in the speed slot of the PIF.)

2.) Chatter and hatch my shiny egg. :)

The only times I get screwed up is when timer0 tries to mess with my head XD

It really makes it easier and more efficient if you just stick to frame 8 spreads, and the Genetic Method allows you to do that reliably, albeit with a little bit of inspection effort on your part.
flawless ditto placed in daycare with random corsola. Found a seed of 31-6-31-31-31-31. Loaded the seed in main screen, and searched for a frame with 3 stats being taken bij the "female" wich of one being the defense so that all should be 31. But before that, i had to verify my SSF. So i saved in fron of the egg man, put dat on 04/01/11, and time on 1:28:00. at 1:28:17 (18 without the second delay) I press A and imideatlly after that start+down. Start the game, leaving c-gear off, and rapidlly press A to get my egg. When i hatch it, it has 31 (or 26) attack IVs, but rest crap, and not a nature that comes in my list for a long time.

In other words, from seeing this list, what am I doing wrong? This is the second time i got this bad seed in a row. Is there something I'm missing, or do you know the reason why it's failing? thanks for all the help!
It's probably a timer0 issue. Try varying the timing at which you press A. I find that I need to press "A" at the right moment such that the DS menu fades away right as the seconds "click" hits the next second, and I usually get my seeds consistently.

Edit: I've noticed that timer0 varies most often when I have multiple keypresses involved. I seem have to be the most careful with my timing when there are keypresses like that. It could be my imagination, though.
It's probably a timer0 issue. Try varying the timing at which you press A. I find that I need to press "A" at the right moment such that the DS menu fades away right as the seconds "click" hits the next second, and I usually get my seeds consistently.
You normally got 1 whole second to hit your seed right? Does that i just have to try 1 second less then timing, 2 second less then timing, 1 second more then timing, and 2 seconds more then timing? Or really to half, or split second. I had this problem before, and never knew the problem, so good to know hat this is it haha. Just need to know how roughlly it goes. Again thanks for teh help :)
My time differential is +1. So, I have to hit things at :25 to get a :26 seed, etc.

What I mean exactly is that, when I'm hitting something at :25, I need to hit it so that the DS menu fades away exactly as the "click" for :26 happens in order to get my timer0 consistently.

It takes some practice and experimentation. It also may vary for your DS.

It also could be my imagination. ^___^
My time differential is +1. So, I have to hit things at :25 to get a :26 seed, etc.

What I mean exactly is that, when I'm hitting something at :25, I need to hit it so that the DS menu fades away exactly as the "click" for :26 happens in order to get my timer0 consistently.

It takes some practice and experimentation. It also may vary for your DS.

It also could be my imagination. ^___^
Okey, gonna experiment with that a bit. Once i find it, does it count for all rng or just this case?

Once i found my offset, I can practiclly finish my rng breeding i think, yay! But problems will proberblly be on the way. I'll keep things posted here.
Updated post "8" with Commonly encountered issues. As of now, I have suggested solutions for inability to hit one's seed.
No matter how many times i tried, cant hit my seed. Mine is C80 (timer 0) and 2 kepresses (start+down). I guess i'll try other seeds, and see if the problem is still there. Cus how many times i tried, i'm not hitting my seed.

Also, as for checking if i hit my seed. I pick up my egg with 5 pokemons in party, fly to victory road, walk in, sweet cent and catch, go to box and check. Is this the right way? Or do i need party space? or are there specific steps? or is this alright as i described.
No matter how many times i tried, cant hit my seed. Mine is C80 (timer 0) and 2 kepresses (start+down). I guess i'll try other seeds, and see if the problem is still there. Cus how many times i tried, i'm not hitting my seed.

Also, as for checking if i hit my seed. I pick up my egg with 5 pokemons in party, fly to victory road, walk in, sweet cent and catch, go to box and check. Is this the right way? Or do i need party space? or are there specific steps? or is this alright as i described.
What type of system are you using? Are factoring in your seconds value when you boot the game? Its usually one second before the target time for most people
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