The pun is there isn't Battle Frontier in any of them.
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Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII
- Thread starter DHR-107
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This thought has occurred to me as well. I think it's possible we'll see the final designs looking similar to those leaks, but not identical.
If it's true I hope the Litten one looks better than the leak
Same here. I 'could' see "Dart -> Arrow" for Dartrix and the whole exaggerated performer thing for Brionne (The one that is most likely IMO)... but that's it. They are not similar enough for them to be actual evolutions... but then again, plenty of final starter evolutions work that way. Funny that I find the Water starter to have the most logical final evolution when they tend to have drastic changes in their final stage (Feraligatr and Swampert are the only ones I can think of right now that do bear noticeable resemblance to their previous stages)
I really don't get why some people are saying that the middle stage starters don't match with the leaked final stages.
- Dartrix is starting to develop the "hood", even if it looks just like a leafy tuft atm, it's even more focused on launching quill-like feathers (it can even change their trajectories), it starts to show more its open wings and the seed-like brown feathers are almost identical to the final leaked stage. To confirm that even more, it has "dart" in its name, and it could be inferred that "Rowlet" is partially derived from "arrow". Even as a minor touches, its bowtie starts to point downward as the hood laces on the final form, and its tail as now 2 lobes instead of 1 (in progression it would only make sense for the last one to have 3, as it is indeed in the leaked one). This middle stage is actually even more related to its supposed last stage than other previous starters.
- Torracat is getting much bulkier, but mostly in its forearms, which are used to deliver strong punches. Its beard/mane and tail are now getting much more similar to that of the leaked last stage, and the red pattern on its forehead now touches the eyes, exactly like in the last stage. The most obvious connection though it's clearly the "fire sac": even if Torracat has it on its neck, it's exactly what the last stage has on its "belt", and an extruding front-facing fire sack wasn't obvious at all from Litten's design. This one has the weakest inference of the three, but still pointing towards the leaked stage more than other previous middle stage starters, so it's still pretty solid.
- Brionne is obviously getting more "feminine", something not deducible from Popplio. Its collar becomes a multi-layer dress, layers that the leaked last stage still has (as a collar, as a "skirt", on its tail and an additional one on its "hair"). Its tail is getting more fish-like (sea lions don't have a fish-like tail at all, mermaids do as our leaked final stage), and it now has two small braids formed by pearl-like spheres (popplio doesn't have "hair" at all, last leaked stage has fluent hair with pearl-like spheres in it). Brionne is also getting whiter and the 2nd stage has plenty of white (while Popplio not much), and it's white in every part Brionne is too (tail, fins, snout, "pearls"). Its concept is shifting from a clown to a ballerina/idol that is far closer to the singer/diva 3rd stage. With a bit of speculation, it's stated that Brionne behaviour is related to the moonlight, pointing towards a fairy type, highly likely considering the Selkie/Mermaid theme of the last stage (psychic type is a second possibility, but it's more related to space objects rather than the creature influenced by them, as we see with Lunaala not being a fairy type AND Solgaleo not being a fire type -nor Lunatone or Solrock respectively- while Clefable indeed is a fairy along with moves like moonlight or moonblast). Brionne is a perfect match with the leaked evo as much as Dartrix, but even more undoubtable considering that it was even less deducible from its first stage.
What I'm trying to say is: there's no doubt the leaked starters final evos are legit (with Mallow confirming it months ago), but the middle stages mostly confirm that their also close to the final designs. That wasn't sure months ago, they could've been dropped official ideas, but now it's different. I'm not saying they will be identical of course, we don't know how old those sketches are, but I'm pretty sure the design will be pretty much that, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't change at all. People who're saying that they're "too big of a jump" from their respective middle stages just didn't analize the designs well enough. If you're still hoping for a quadrupedal final Litten's evo, well, there's still a possibility that the 3d model will have a different stance from the sketches, something like Mega Abomasnow wouldn't be too farfetched, but I actually doubt it as it would hamper the "wrestler concept" (likely an homage to Tiger Mask, Gamefreak isn't new to homages to classic franchisings).
- Dartrix is starting to develop the "hood", even if it looks just like a leafy tuft atm, it's even more focused on launching quill-like feathers (it can even change their trajectories), it starts to show more its open wings and the seed-like brown feathers are almost identical to the final leaked stage. To confirm that even more, it has "dart" in its name, and it could be inferred that "Rowlet" is partially derived from "arrow". Even as a minor touches, its bowtie starts to point downward as the hood laces on the final form, and its tail as now 2 lobes instead of 1 (in progression it would only make sense for the last one to have 3, as it is indeed in the leaked one). This middle stage is actually even more related to its supposed last stage than other previous starters.
- Torracat is getting much bulkier, but mostly in its forearms, which are used to deliver strong punches. Its beard/mane and tail are now getting much more similar to that of the leaked last stage, and the red pattern on its forehead now touches the eyes, exactly like in the last stage. The most obvious connection though it's clearly the "fire sac": even if Torracat has it on its neck, it's exactly what the last stage has on its "belt", and an extruding front-facing fire sack wasn't obvious at all from Litten's design. This one has the weakest inference of the three, but still pointing towards the leaked stage more than other previous middle stage starters, so it's still pretty solid.
- Brionne is obviously getting more "feminine", something not deducible from Popplio. Its collar becomes a multi-layer dress, layers that the leaked last stage still has (as a collar, as a "skirt", on its tail and an additional one on its "hair"). Its tail is getting more fish-like (sea lions don't have a fish-like tail at all, mermaids do as our leaked final stage), and it now has two small braids formed by pearl-like spheres (popplio doesn't have "hair" at all, last leaked stage has fluent hair with pearl-like spheres in it). Brionne is also getting whiter and the 2nd stage has plenty of white (while Popplio not much), and it's white in every part Brionne is too (tail, fins, snout, "pearls"). Its concept is shifting from a clown to a ballerina/idol that is far closer to the singer/diva 3rd stage. With a bit of speculation, it's stated that Brionne behaviour is related to the moonlight, pointing towards a fairy type, highly likely considering the Selkie/Mermaid theme of the last stage (psychic type is a second possibility, but it's more related to space objects rather than the creature influenced by them, as we see with Lunaala not being a fairy type AND Solgaleo not being a fire type -nor Lunatone or Solrock respectively- while Clefable indeed is a fairy along with moves like moonlight or moonblast). Brionne is a perfect match with the leaked evo as much as Dartrix, but even more undoubtable considering that it was even less deducible from its first stage.
What I'm trying to say is: there's no doubt the leaked starters final evos are legit (with Mallow confirming it months ago), but the middle stages mostly confirm that their also close to the final designs. That wasn't sure months ago, they could've been dropped official ideas, but now it's different. I'm not saying they will be identical of course, we don't know how old those sketches are, but I'm pretty sure the design will be pretty much that, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't change at all. People who're saying that they're "too big of a jump" from their respective middle stages just didn't analize the designs well enough. If you're still hoping for a quadrupedal final Litten's evo, well, there's still a possibility that the 3d model will have a different stance from the sketches, something like Mega Abomasnow wouldn't be too farfetched, but I actually doubt it as it would hamper the "wrestler concept" (likely an homage to Tiger Mask, Gamefreak isn't new to homages to classic franchisings).
Agreed 100%, and since an image speaks louder than words I'm also just gonna leave this here.
I for one have no doubts that those are indeed the final designs.
Greninja and Empoleon do seem to have fairly big jumps between middle and final stage designs
The idea isn't that they aren't legit, but depending on when publishing and distribution began and when those concept art pages were drawn up, it is possible that the final starters designs have been adjusted. Concept art pages are subject to change. (And that's Game Freaks's "CONFIDENTIAL" stamp so its their concept art, not the animation studio's - none of that "it's anime concept art the designs are obviously finalized.") The abstract concept is there, but the visual designs do make big leaps that have only been seen in a few starters (looking at you Samurott, and Greninja). Torracat has the closest visual cohesion with its leaked final evo, followed closely by Brionne (despite looking like it could replace Popplio as the basic form and no one would bat an eye), and Dartrix has the least visual cohesion. None of them - even these 3 - have ever been so bad that I've felt like there *has* to be another form in between the middle and final evolutions (Samurott retains the biggest design gap), but there is an aesthetic design gap and until a definitive timeline or the games themselves proves otherwise, a reasonable possibility exists that the final starters will have minor tweaks when we see their game data.
Yeah, my Dartrix will definitely be called Ghirahim...lol
Also I love how they showed all the OP megas to herald the mechanic's return!
There was so much wishful thinking in some quarters that they weren't going to be in Sun/Moon.
Overall, nice trailer. I think the final starter forms will be substantially like what was leaked long ago.
Also I love how they showed all the OP megas to herald the mechanic's return!
There was so much wishful thinking in some quarters that they weren't going to be in Sun/Moon.
Overall, nice trailer. I think the final starter forms will be substantially like what was leaked long ago.
Also using CHALK as an example of a team that can be shared through QR.
It's obvious they know the consequences of these features, but well, it's not that bad, considering some people simply won't have enough free time to make a competitive team. Especially if they lack the caps or the penta or hexaflawless Pokemon with the right egg/event moves.
It's simply the GF version of "Go to Rate My Team and copypaste their exportable file".
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If you read what I wrote, I never said that those design are "obviously finalized". I said that giving the many conceptual similarities with the now revealed middle stages, it's almost sure that those concept are confirmed, with only eventual minor changes: "I'm not saying they will be identical of course, we don't know how old those sketches are, but I'm pretty sure the design will be pretty much that". They COULD be the very same, they'll most likely be very similar anyway, and the new middle stages don't suggest a different route conceptually and design-wise, on the contrary they reinforce the connection with the leaked ones. This is what I meant.
I strongly disagree on the "low visual cohesion" part, but I already said why. Still, there isn't much more to discuss without risking to go OT, we'll see when the games'll be out. :)
So, at long last, the evolved forms of the starters. I think they're kind of neat, I suppose. They only stick around for the middle third of the game or so, and are likely to be shafted when it comes to merchandise, so in either case it's not something I'll develop too strong opinions about. Probably for this reason, the reveal of the middle evo starters didn't get me very hyped. We knew that they would come, and we already knew the end result. Confirming that there is, in fact, a middle stage isn't that exciting.
I think I'll still stick with Rowlet after seeing how the starters evolve. But I plan on getting both Sun and Moon, and am unsure on what to pick in the other one. Maybe Popplio, so I can nickname it "Tarth". It will be very fun for a portion of the game, at least.
I really like the return of Join Avenue, though. In B2W2, I really enjoyed attracting new customers and seeing the shops grow with new stuff to get every day. It gave the game much-needed "daily content", which helped its longevity immensely. XY is almost devoid of daily content, and ORAS has very little once you've seen all the Mirage Islands, so I was looking forward to see it again in Z. Now, there was no Z, which made me fear they'd skip daily content until SuMo's follow-up games (in 2018 or so), but it seems to be back, in the base games even!
As for the three PC islands... I have a feeling it'll be a feature I use once and never again. But who knows, maybe it will be fun?
Now, bring on November!
I think I'll still stick with Rowlet after seeing how the starters evolve. But I plan on getting both Sun and Moon, and am unsure on what to pick in the other one. Maybe Popplio, so I can nickname it "Tarth". It will be very fun for a portion of the game, at least.
I really like the return of Join Avenue, though. In B2W2, I really enjoyed attracting new customers and seeing the shops grow with new stuff to get every day. It gave the game much-needed "daily content", which helped its longevity immensely. XY is almost devoid of daily content, and ORAS has very little once you've seen all the Mirage Islands, so I was looking forward to see it again in Z. Now, there was no Z, which made me fear they'd skip daily content until SuMo's follow-up games (in 2018 or so), but it seems to be back, in the base games even!
As for the three PC islands... I have a feeling it'll be a feature I use once and never again. But who knows, maybe it will be fun?
Now, bring on November!
My guess is that at least the whole excavation island or whatever (Isle Aphun according to the website) will be really, really useful, probably more efficient at getting evolutionary stones than say, super training, and it can (presumably) be going on while you're doing other things. The promo video shows 4 results from the island, 3 of which are evo stones, and the website shows 6 rewards, 4 of which are evo stones. I'm guessing higher level pokemon will mean better stones but that's not really an obstacle in the later game.
Also, in the wild pokemon island (Isle Abeens) promo picture on the website, the interface has a thing that says "Poke Bean Effects Last For:" and then "None" underneath. I'm guessing we'll be able to get Poke Beans from some island that will let us do things like increase the probability of wild pokemon joining you, or make different kinds appear, or hidden abilities, or something. Makes me kind of excited and intrigued about this island. Could possibly be similar to the Poke Radar (Edit: I meant DexNav. Derp) in helping get rare pokemon?
I was screaming thank you at my phone when they confirmed megas...
I do doubt that rental teams will be usable in major VGC tournaments. Premier Challenges may allow them unless they have a way to check for that/disable it for those. (Iirc hack checks at those are a lot more difficult since it is a local level kind of deal)
Most likely I see it as a valuable training tool: Players can share sample teams for newer players to practice with and others can pass teams along to training partners to gather data on how teams perform or even practice certain matchups more easily.
You're probably right about hidden abilities being the upshot of that Poke-Bean island. Which, on the surface of it, seems like about as frustrating a system for that as the evolution stone-excavation is useful.
It definitely harkens back to Gen 5 then, if that is the case. I wonder how many types if Pokebeans there will be? I'm sure you can use then to lure certain types to the island more frequently.
The only reason I used to use Pokémon Showdown was to practice with winning teams from VGC so as to understand how they were built and go from there. Without the need to breed everything in-game just to try and fail at it, it's awesome. And I'm I' sure there'll be a way to build a full team in a website or so, the way we do at Showdown, and generate a QR code for that, effectively making Showdown kinda obsolete.
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Eh, PS won't be entirely obsolete. It will still be nice for testing stuff before generating a QR, and there are OMs that can't be recreated in game.
Oh shit.
That'd be cool. Showdown implementing QR code generation would be awesome, even if it draws play away from its non-Smogon formats (which I don't think anyone would have a problem with).
I'm kinda late to the party and I don't have anything new to say about the middle stages. Just that I love everything so far, S&M is really heading to be the best game EVER!
And I love how intelligent GameFreak is to announce the most polemical thing on VGC with the starters so they watered down the while thing. I think it's clever and wise on their part to not allow Mega another season.
And I love how intelligent GameFreak is to announce the most polemical thing on VGC with the starters so they watered down the while thing. I think it's clever and wise on their part to not allow Mega another season.
I'm glad mega evolution is back, even if it was gimmicky and made some Pokemon OP. Pidgeot and Beedrill can still be useful! For the record, I was Team Rowlet from the start and it looks like I'm staying that way if Litten3 hasn't changed from the leaks (because to me it's ugly - sorry and all that). It's not often I end up with the majority opinion...
Looking back at the Poké-Pelago pictures, it is me or the beans look suspiciously similar to the gummies from PMD?
I find it interesting that they specifically had this wording in the trailer:
"Relive Mega-Evolutions".
Seems to be both no new megas and a hint that they're currently done with that tangential type of evolution. Which, in many ways, is a shame. Excepting a few OP ones I did enjoy Megas.
Who knows, maybe they've got something planned later but for now it seems that Mega's (and now maybe even Z moves in the future) were/are generation specific.
"Relive Mega-Evolutions".
Seems to be both no new megas and a hint that they're currently done with that tangential type of evolution. Which, in many ways, is a shame. Excepting a few OP ones I did enjoy Megas.
Who knows, maybe they've got something planned later but for now it seems that Mega's (and now maybe even Z moves in the future) were/are generation specific.
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