Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

[Axelsaurus]

So, here we are, finally.

I like Silvadi, it has some "legendary beast" vibe, and it does look more like a "permanent form change" rather than a regular evolution, as I thought. It's even possibile that we never get the chance to use the constrained form/pre-evo, as it could straight-out evolve after deciding to follow us (or even before, in the page we can see Gladion activating its Memory, so... Don't know). The mini-Arceus ability and the pseudo-judgement attack are all nice additions, but people need to be careful considering it an Arceus for lower tiers: I wouldn't be surprised in the least if this thing will actually be on par with Arceus itself stat-wise. A range of 580-720 BST is likely anyway, we'll see.
As for Jangmo-o evos, I'm not sure. I was really hoping for the first wingless, non legendary, fully evolved quadrupedal dragon, I was also hoping to see a ram-like head-fighter (you know GF, animals CAN FIGHT without fists and kicks! Not every fighting type has to be a bipedal punch-dealing creature, I thought you understood it with the musketeers...), but here we got these... I'm not saying they look bad, but I feel Jararanga as especially overdesigned. I prefer the more simple scale placement of Jangmo-o, I loved it and I wished just for a grown-up version of it this time, of course with more details but not anything as complicated as what we got. However, scans are always tricky, even if I'd preferred a different development, the 3d models change a lot the perception of it. I could just turn to love them while seeing them animated, but as of now I'm quite neutral.

 

[XaCez]

I think Jararango looks terrible. I see where they're going with the design, but damn is it ugly. Maybe that's just on purpose though. Hopefully it'll look better in-game.

 

[Absolclaw]

Every single revealed design looked 100x better in game anyway, so there's no worries there.

 

[DHR-107]

So, some decent posts and some not so decent ones...

Jangmo-O's evolution looks pretty cool tbh. I really like the armour and the colours of it.

Norne I can only assume people are looking at the tail and seeing this:

Which I can kinda understand, but agree that it's wrong. Nothing about the design looks remotely like Quetzalcoatl. To me, it looks far more like some kind of Horse Armour/Knightly armour than anything else. Latched plate armour is something which is mostly Asian in usage iirc? And this design looks far more Asian than Mexican :|

Type Null getting an evo is kinda strange, but I like the mechanics behind it. Arceus was never really available for usage outside of niche things, so having something with the same sort of premise is obviously (looking at the posts) something a lot of people wanted. I can't say I am that excited about it though. Doesn't really do anything for me.

I need to hunt down some more reviewers thoughts of the demo they were allowed to play, Count Bleck did an awesome job of collating a lot of information from those previews. I watched the Game Explain one last night and they noted a few interesting things. He basically confirmed it was mostly the E3 Demo which they played, which still had a few mons they weren't allowed to talk about in it...

Looking forward to the "official" announcement of some of these mons tomorrow (and maybe some others). Remember to check back here around 1400BST (2200JST) for more discussion :)

 

[yourDeadGrandad]

Finally! :D

I have to say, I really like the evolution of Type: Null.

I've never had an Arceus of my very own in-game, so I'm hoping this one can finally make the team.

Have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the Kukulkan dragon though. Jangmo-o had so much potential....

 

[Cainchin]

Now that all the info leaked is confirmed to be true i'm going to comment on them.

Type:Null evolving into Silvadi (in Japanese the name sounds more like Chivalry and guess what, It had a helmet like knights before evolving!) The fact it can change type with an item and having a signature move that adapts to its type is awesome and it can be any time anytime it wants. I would like the specifics of AR system so it's not just a clone of Arceus's multitype ability.

I think is safe to say that Type:Null upon evolving not only will it lose the helmet (Which If i remember right not only it was a limiter it also weight a lot) permanently and gain an ability but also gain stats eventhough it looks all around the same with the exceptions of a white head.

Jangmo-o's Evolution line looks awesome (It's like a Great Macao the resemblance is near uncanny.) Dragon/Fight is awesome and good along with soundproof utility which most likely will keep at the third stage.

Alolan Grimer confirms Alolan Muk and they're Poison Dark this type already exist together so what matters is the movepool and stats and it needs to diferentiate from Drapion and Skuntank which shares type with.

 

[MrTharne]

Have to say I'm a bit disappointed by the Kukulkan dragon though. Jangmo-o had so much potential....

Oh boy...here it comes.

 

[DreamPrince]

AR system must stand for " Arceus Ripoff System"

 

[Count Bleck]

So here's a thing that just hit me. A lot of reviewers have been saying that Pokemon has a lot more personality this time around, and will be playing a bigger role int he story than just walking around. I was wondering how this would come up until one reviewer mentioned in an article that it was similar to Yokai Watch.

Now, in yokai watch, there is this guy, Whisper:

He's the first Yokai you meet, cracks jokes, and keeps tracks of all Yokai in the game you encounter, as well as helping you find new ones. Now, I don't think its too far outside the realm of possibility that GF has been doing a lot of studying at their new shiny competitor, especially since YW has been Giving Pokemon a run for their money over in the east. How do they match it?

Of course! A rotom that can talk! And can translate Pokemon speak! If my theory is right, we wont just have Human NPCs, but Pokemon ones as well, who might offer ide quests and missions on the side! Heck, some might even be important to the actual plot directly!

 

[Prof. Almeida]

Man, after a serious ten hours of sitting in front of my computer to do a video translation, I finally ended and thought, "Why not check Smogon to see if someone liked what I wrote?"

Boy, oh boy. To find out about mini-Arceus and the Dragon-Fight Pseudo. This is dope. I'll sleep and dream about the endless Potential of mini-Arceus. Heck, you can even have both Arceus battling at the same time in your team. This is just too good.

And it'd be interesting if, differently than Arceus, mini-Arceus doesn't need to really hold an item, being free to Z-move something or even have other items.

 

[Pyritie]

Wait - what the hell? It's blatantly wearing samurai plate, like'd been theorised months ago. Bloody hell, people are stupid.

Yeah, and the tail looks like one of these, which is also from japan:

The design really looks more like a steel type to me though. It doesn't make me think of a fighting type.

So here's a thing that just hit me. A lot of reviewers have been saying that Pokemon has a lot more personality this time around, and will be playing a bigger role int he story than just walking around. I was wondering how this would come up until one reviewer mentioned in an article that it was similar to Yokai Watch.

Now, in yokai watch, there is this guy, Whisper:

He's the first Yokai you meet, cracks jokes, and keeps tracks of all Yokai in the game you encounter, as well as helping you find new ones. Now, I don't think its too far outside the realm of possibility that GF has been doing a lot of studying at their new shiny competitor, especially since YW has been Giving Pokemon a run for their money over in the east. How do they match it?

Of course! A rotom that can talk! And can translate Pokemon speak! If my theory is right, we wont just have Human NPCs, but Pokemon ones as well, who might offer ide quests and missions on the side! Heck, some might even be important to the actual plot directly!

You're not the first to think that. SM look pretty heavily inspired by yokai watch's success.
Z moves also look similar to soultimate moves, i.e. powerful moves with a long unique animation and some text on the bottom of the screen.
Trials also sound like they'll end up similar to quests like YW has.
Ultra Beasts are probably a stand-in for boss yokai, since you can't befriend the latter and probably can't catch the former.

I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing yet. Yokai watch pretty heavily ripped off pokemon, after all.

 

[MrTharne]

Didn't some leak said that it was suppose to be based on a monk ? Probably why it's fighting type.

 

[Siggu]

About Jangmo-o's evolutions... I'll be frank and say I need the in-game model to judge them (Hopefully we are getting another look today). The artworks don't seem to be good for them, albeit they do look nice. So the theme is 'tribal warrior'?

Gonna go the easy route and nickname them Ryu once I get one.

 

[Kietharr]

Yeah this gen has had that pattern, the pokemon look much better in 3d than on paper.

Anyways I think Gladion ends up becoming a rival type character, almost like Silver as an 'asshole' rival while Hau is kind of the bumbling idiot rival. Seeing as Hau picks the starter that's weak to yours, I bet Gladion will use the memory for his Silvadi that is strong against your starter. The fact that Silvadi seems to be a friendship evo and that Gladion has one also confirms for me that he's not really a bad guy and is probably on the evil team due to circumstance.

 

[MrTharne]

All this talk about the "evil" team, am I the only one who think Team Skull will end up good guys compare to this "Aether Foundation" ?

 

[Kingme1]

This may be silly, and maybe I've never noticed it before but for the English games Dragon type has a blue-purpulish color to it as noted in the picture of Turtonator, however in the images from CoroCoro, the so called Dragon typing for Jangmo-o and its evo line has a brownish color to it similar to Rock or Ground type.

Just wondering if that's how Dragon typing shows in the Japanese images...

 

[Pyritie]

This may be silly, and maybe I've never noticed it before but for the English games Dragon type has a blue-purpulish color to it as noted in the picture of Turtonator, however in the images from CoroCoro, the so called Dragon typing for Jangmo-o and its evo line has a brownish color to it similar to Rock or Ground type.

Just wondering if that's how Dragon typing shows in the Japanese images...

The sort of brownish color is also used for dragon type in the TCG. It seems to be its alternate color when its blue-purple isn't used for whatever reason.

 

[Wolfblur]

Honestly the fighting/dragon reminds me a lot of pangolins:

 

[Silverythoughts]

Same as everyone else I love Type Null's 'Evoluation' MINI ARCEUS YES

That fighting/Dragon evolution tree looks...awkward not going to lie. But I'll wait to see its animated form before I make any further judgement.

I love the updated Pokemon Center though - does the coffee shop have any relevance? CAN YOU GIVE POKEMON COFFEE NOW AND MAKE THEM HYPER? (...or is that Pokemon cruelty?...)

 

[TruthfulCake]

I find all this talk about the Mini-Arceus interesting, although I am getting a different vibe from the descriptions.

I mean, they are not being subtle about Silvadi's similarities with Arceus, what with the description for its "Multi Attack" being one that "judges everything (すべてを裁く)" (basically a Judgment attack), and the "AR System" ability which probably is just short for "ARceus", or "Arceus Replica" or something.

But what gets me curious is the way they worded Silvadi's description. First of all, the word "strongest (最強)" is all over the page. One of the captions reads: "The candidate for the strongest Pokemon in Sun/Moon is decided! Silvadi makes its appearance!"

They also used the word "awakening" instead of "evolution" for this one (not sure if there is a precedent for this). The description of how it attains this "awakening" alludes to its breaking its mask, which serves as a "seal" more than anything. Considering that the rest of its design does not change from Type: Null, apart from slight difference in coloration, I suppose this means that Silvadi un-nerfs itself when its seal is broken, instead of attaining a new power boost and shape change like normal evolutions.

The Japanese words used to describe its post-awakening form are all homophones, "shin", with all three kanjis for "New", "True", and "God". The caption reads: "When this "new" Pokemon unleashes its "true" power, a new strongest "legend (God's tale)" is born! There are no limits to this Pokemon!"

I guess what I want to say is, instead of being Mini-Arceus, this thing might end up being as strong as, if not more powerful than Arceus itself. It certainly won't be a first that a man-made copy of a legendary Pokemon surpasses its original. The mask seal might simply be to nerf this godly Pokemon until you are ready to handle its broken (heh) power in-game.

 

[KrewlKat]

Is Null even an organic being. Just look on the sides of its face that some weird looking machinery and the item used to change its type is called memory like a computer memory and the ability is AR system. So either this thing is a cyborg or it's just a robot.

 

[deluge]

By the way, Memory seems like a key item rather than something Null holds. Gladion is clearly holding what appears to be it, plus, it just makes sense considering the nature of z-moves being added this generation.

Hah, this is the first time I considered that, with the current design, only Normal Arceus will be able to use Z-moves. That is assuming that, if Silvadi does not need to hold Memory, they don't rework Multitype's implementation so that Arceus does not have to hold its plates either. It would be kind of weird for GOD to be upstaged in any way by an artificial abomination but I guess that's what Null was made for.

I prefer Silvadi to Jangmo-o's final evo. I have to admit that my first reaction to the latter was that it seemed a bit busy so I can relate to the others who've posted similar feelings. It's not that I don't like it though, and I see where they were going with the design. The Samurai inspiration is obvious and cool.

Minceus is nice. Firstly, I like the unleashed design. Secondly, Multitype is a cool gimmick and it'll be nice to have a (likely) more readily available Pokemon that can do something similar. There will be movepool divergences and stat differences to set it apart. It will certainly NOT have 120 in every stat but it could have a stat or two that's higher than base 120. It's supposed to rival the legendary in power so I could imagine twin base 130+ offenses with less speed and bulk. Hopefully they don't take the Arceus mimcry too literally and do something boring like base 95 all around.

 

[Daemul]

Talking about Type:Null, does anyone else think that his helmet being a limiter hints at Arceus' ring being some sort of a limiter as well?

 

[Phione]

Unlikely plot twist that would be cool: Silvadi actually evolves into Arceus. Arceus was a robot the whole time.

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

Really like Type:Null's evolution.

Jangmo'o's evos do give off a regal vibe as some other people pointed out, and I feel like the design fits the unique typing. Hope it gets Mach Punch or something.....