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General Fighting Game Discussion

lol

by that logic, even though Fight Night and UFC aren't 'traditional' fighting games, they're still fighting games.. but, everybody knows it isn't a fighting game.

hell, by that logic, pokemon is a turned based fighting game... lolol

and word to guy above me.. word of mouth via reliable sources - a lot of your favorite "known" players dislike Marvel even though they still play it.. Same goes for SF4.
 
Smash has elements of spacing, hitboxes, priority, projectiles, combos, mind games, predictions, yomi, etc. Please give a legitimate argument or reasons on why Smash isn't a fighter other than lol and you might have a case. No one calls it a traditional fighting game, but its a fighting game nonetheless.

Also, did anyone see Fchamp going off on his stream. I thought it was hilarious. I know he's a douchebag, but it was still funny.
 
Fight Night has arguable concepts of spacing/footsies/strategic movement, it has similar concepts of yomi/prediction/player reading/mind games, though, I'm not sure if its hit detection is done with hitboxes/hurtboxes

But, it's not a fighting game. It's a sports sim with many comparable elements to fighting games.

Smash lacks -

a definitive corner
high/low blocking

adds shit like platforms and edges

Not to mention, in order to make it a "fighting game" it has to be stripped of the many elements of the game that add too much random chance ie items, and the banned stages.

A good example would be a game my friends and I created, like 15 years ago in order to turn FF Tactics into a psuedo competitive turn based strat game.. but.. even if that lil game we made up out of boredom spread to national competitive levels.. it doesn't change the fact that tactics is not a competitive game.

all in all smash is a party game with comparable elements to fighting games.. and a community that created a competitive game out of that.. but not a true fighting game.
 
Next post trying to decide whether or not the Smash Bros. series falls under the fighting genre gets infracted. Get back on topic.
 
At this point I can tell that andy is just a stream monster that likes getting everyone mad.

The actual top level players of fighters don't even diss smash as a fighter anymore. Apex was a great show of that. The people playing there were absolutely great about Smash being THE fighter there, the commentators were giving some props to the community. It's just the stream monsters that try to make the game look bad.

You are the cancer. Stop trying to make arbitrary rules about what is and isn't a fighter. It's these kinds of people that make innovation in the games industry so rare now.
 
Outlaw said:
Firestorm is probably a SSB enthusiast.
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That and there's a dedicated SSB thread, and that's where anything SSB-related should go. Just to be clear, SSB has it's own thread because it has a much bigger following here than most traditional fighters (not because it isn't one).
 
UltiMario said:
At this point I can tell that andy is just a stream monster that likes getting everyone mad.

The actual top level players of fighters don't even diss smash as a fighter anymore. Apex was a great show of that. The people playing there were absolutely great about Smash being THE fighter there, the commentators were giving some props to the community. It's just the stream monsters that try to make the game look bad.

You are the cancer. Stop trying to make arbitrary rules about what is and isn't a fighter. It's these kinds of people that make innovation in the games industry so rare now.
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The funny thing is I've been playing fighting games since before streams existed.. I'm from the era where we played in the arcade, kid.. don't get it confused.

I never said the game was bad, I have no intents on dissing the game. I'm friends with a former 'top' smash player, and we've had conversations about this type of thing.. and dude even said, "it's(melee) a good competitive game, but, it's not really a fighting game".
 
Kristoph said:
How about Ono's statement that "customization is the future of fighting games," or whatever? That was pretty interesting. And like, actually discussion-worthy??
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Terrible, terrible idea.

I said the same thing on SRK.. he's already removed a good aspect of timing, he's removed aspects of execution, and now he's looking to remove the concept of match up / character knowledge. Which is one of the most important factors in competing in the genre. Arguably, one of the only concepts in competitive fighting games that haven't been dumbed down in newer games.. simply because it couldn't be.

edit: One thing it's actually good for - is may finally push the core of the scene away from these newer, casual oriented games by Capcom to some other companies' fighters.
 
I don't think it's a bad idea in and of itself. The idea of slightly different fighters is not bad, especially if it's done in the right way. I like the idea of the groove system CvS had (though to be honest, I don't really know much about it) and even something like choosing between old and new characters in ST.

The problem is generally the community figures out which groove/style is definitively better. I think that's why the gem system is set up the way it is with more available customization (multiple gem selection to make per character opposed to one groove selection).

I understand why they are going for it from a gameplay design (past the casual pleasing) but as a fan it makes me uneasy cause obviously, I just don't trust Capcom about it hahah.

Good news is 'ccording to Mike Ross, Gootecks, and Aris they were saying gems seem like a very major factor when they got a chance to play with them, but we'll have to wait for it to see of course.
 
I donno..

I played a LOT of CvS2 from the early 2000s on to about 2007/8 when I started playing guilty gear..

The game had 6 grooves. And while the grooves offered different systems, not too much changed about the character.. some gave you a run vs a walk, some added the ability of a roll (and with a roll, roll cancelable specials), S groove gave you dodge, P groove - parries, K groove just defense and rage mode, A groove - everybody's favorite aspect aka custom combos (not really fuck A groove)..

But, it was all stuff that you knew about.. and while it was more to learn, the more you played and experienced, the more you learned to combat it.

If I'm not mistaken, by the gist of Ono's comments, he wants to be able to completely customize all the different aspects of a character.. to where you have no idea wtf kind of Ryu you're looking at.. which is a terrible idea.
 
I haven't been following the SFvsT coverage very much, but these gems sound like Arcana Hearts' system of character+arcana choice.
I know Arcana Heart is a somewhat respected fighter, (getting past the fanservice) so I'm not sure why people are making a big deal about the gems?
Am I right in assuming this or is it more extensive than I'm thinking it to be?
 
andysensei said:
If I'm not mistaken, by the gist of Ono's comments, he wants to be able to completely customize all the different aspects of a character.. to where you have no idea wtf kind of Ryu you're looking at.. which is a terrible idea.
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Well at least it won't be like that during the gem system. You'll see what type of gems your opponent picks and I guess will be displayed similar to ultras/any other style of choice in current fighting games.

Temperantia said:
I haven't been following the SFvsT coverage very much, but these gems sound like Arcana Hearts' system of character+arcana choice.
I know Arcana Heart is a somewhat respected fighter, (getting past the fanservice) so I'm not sure why people are making a big deal about the gems?
Am I right in assuming this or is it more extensive than I'm thinking it to be?
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The thing with gems is that not only is it sketchy about whether we want crazy customization in fighters but Capcom announced they want gems to take away things like "the difference of skill level between players" with things like auto block and auto tech gems. Some of the gems are aimed to be anti-competitive which obviously is not something that sounds promising.

Also, there are concerns with how some gems are pre-order only and based on where you pre-order from which could be a nightmare for tournament directors.

Anyway, apparently Capcom said there's a no gem mode so SFxT can fall back to that if necessary.
 
Xaq said:
Anyway, apparently Capcom said there's a no gem mode so SFxT can fall back to that if necessary.
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This is correct, there will be free DLC post launch with a "Tournament mode" that removes the gem system.

Speaking of SFxT, I'm pretty peeved that Mega Man and Pac-man are Playstation exclusive. That doesn't make any amount of sense at all.
 
Veedrock said:
This is correct, there will be free DLC post launch with a "Tournament mode" that removes the gem system.

Speaking of SFxT, I'm pretty peeved that Mega Man and Pac-man are Playstation exclusive. That doesn't make any amount of sense at all.
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basically, blame Microsoft ith being dicks in regards to DLC and whatnot.
I should go preorder it soon for my PS3 though, wanna make sure I get that stuff on launchday :D
 
Xaqwais said:
The thing with gems is that not only is it sketchy about whether we want crazy customization in fighters but Capcom announced they want gems to take away things like "the difference of skill level between players" with things like auto block and auto tech gems. Some of the gems are aimed to be anti-competitive which obviously is not something that sounds promising.
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The skill-bending gems also drain a bar of meter on use.

Sounds like a pretty heavy price in a game with so little meter. Ultimately you're putting yourself at a disadvantage for using them.
 
Eiganjo said:
basically, blame Microsoft ith being dicks in regards to DLC and whatnot.
I should go preorder it soon for my PS3 though, wanna make sure I get that stuff on launchday :D
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No. Pac-man and Mega Man are not DLC, they are included in the game at launch. They are not Playstation-brand characters like Cole is, so there is literally no reason for them to be exclusive to the PS3/Vita. You're really telling me that Microsoft told them they can't be put in the game?

And I don't understand the dick comments about DLC, especially considering that Capcom has had good experiences with Microsoft in that regards. SSFIV costume catalog packs for example are only available on Xbox 360 because Microsoft fronted the cost; Sony would not do that, so PS3 players can't see other players' costumes unless they also bought them.

Basically, quit talking out your ass. Capcom has been way more neutral towards the consoles in the past that this is a very surprising announcement.
 
Xaqwais said:
The thing with gems is that not only is it sketchy about whether we want crazy customization in fighters but Capcom announced they want gems to take away things like "the difference of skill level between players" with things like auto block and auto tech gems. Some of the gems are aimed to be anti-competitive which obviously is not something that sounds promising.
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That's just bad marketing though. The gems themselves don't seem overtly horrible. The real problems as of right now are the DLC gems and especially the selection process. Ono's attitude regarding customization seems very sketchy though, for sure.

Also, anyone watching Blazblue x Godsgarden? It's in the top 8 now or something, with St1ckbug restreaming and Lord Knight commentating. You better be watching this Res????
 
ok, it was a bit of asstalking I did, but the same thing happened with MK9 with Kratos on PS3 and no-one for the xbox360, for reasons Ed Boon couldnt discuss about.

according to the official statement from Ono:

“We do have the exclusive characters for the Sony platform. We have Cole, the two Sony cats, Kuro and Toro. But basically for the Xbox 360, we were in discussions with [Microsoft] for which character to put in as an exclusive, but we weren’t able to decide on a character because of differences in timing and things like that,” Ono told Xbox360Achievements.com."

"In terms of characters we wish we could have put in the game, Master Chief or Marcus Fenix from Gears of War would have been really cool, but it was just really difficult. We have Cole from inFamous on PS3, which is really cool, but that's just the way it turned out."

but then again, which microsoft character would actually kinda fit in SFXT?

Masster Chief? That Guy from GoW?

Not like the 2 cats are anything worthwhile but I suppose at least Megaman and Pacman couldve been in the xbox version.
 
Kristoph said:
That's just bad marketing though. The gems themselves don't seem overtly horrible. The real problems as of right now are the DLC gems and especially the selection process. Ono's attitude regarding customization seems very sketchy though, for sure.
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Yeah, I don't think the gem system spells doom for the SFxT like some people think, but I was just responding to Temperantia's question about why people are making a fuss.

Hopefully, SFxT is an amazing game, and it does look pretty dang fun. I'll be enjoying my bad boxart Megaman hahaha.

edit whatever: Mike's and Gooteck's impression of gems.
 
Eiganjo said:
stuff
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I know Microsoft was the roadblock in regards to an Xbox-brand character, but I've been talking specifically about Mega Man and Pac-man.

Xaqwais said:
Yeah, I don't think the gem system spells doom for the SFxT like some people think, but I was just responding to Temperantia's question about why people are making a fuss.

Hopefully, SFxT is an amazing game, and it does look pretty dang fun. I'll be enjoying my bad boxart Megaman hahaha.

edit whatever: Mike's and Gooteck's impression of gems.
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Thanks for the video link, good watch. I don't think Gems will be game-breaking either, though it will be a very interesting to see their impact. I hope the selection process is streamlined enough to be viable in tournaments, I'd much prefer to watch tournament level matches with Gems than without.
 
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