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- Thread starter GatoDelFuego
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Sooo... Total Buiscuit just died within the past 24 hours, and people are already slandering him, and essentially dancing on his grave because he supported not the harassment of women, but the betterment of games journalism. Seriously, some of these comments make me sick.
I mean, there are much more people defending him, which is awesome, but still, some of this shit just makes you lose hope for the future of politics in general, if some of us will be celebrating the death of people like a game reviewer who did nothing but support a *slightly* political movement about GAMING in an entirely apolitical way.
I mean, there are much more people defending him, which is awesome, but still, some of this shit just makes you lose hope for the future of politics in general, if some of us will be celebrating the death of people like a game reviewer who did nothing but support a *slightly* political movement about GAMING in an entirely apolitical way.
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There was nothing "slightly" political about gamergate, and you cannot apolitically take political stances. That's a contradiction. Death shouldn't automatically depoliticise (read: sanitise) someone's beliefs.
That being said, even though I had certain problems with TB's stance on the issue, I respected his independence on the matter. Treating him like this after his death is beneath rock bottom. That's just masturbating on rock-hard self-righteousness and is unlikely to do anything other than make you look like a gigantic fucking tool.
That being said, even though I had certain problems with TB's stance on the issue, I respected his independence on the matter. Treating him like this after his death is beneath rock bottom. That's just masturbating on rock-hard self-righteousness and is unlikely to do anything other than make you look like a gigantic fucking tool.
holy shit, i didn't think that people still actually thought gamergate wasn't just an alt-right recuritment tactic that was wrapped in a super, super thin shell of caring about game journalism. It only attacked minorities and other's that didn't bend to what their mob mentality wanted. It was an entirely political thing and trying to pass it off as anything else is disingenuous and disgusting
also, no, Totalbiscut was a shitty fucking person who did terrible things, never apologize for them, and regularly got people dogpiled for small shit because his petty ego couldn't handle being criticized for said horrible shit. Don't try and tell me people who had to deal with his shit can't be happy or celebrate that he can't do that shit anymore, and thhat they need to be respectful about it
Actually, having to read more about what he ahs done, i'll say it myself: I am glad he is dead and unable to continue being a disgusting and awful person. Only wish his fanbase would have died along with him so no one would have to listen to them either
also, no, Totalbiscut was a shitty fucking person who did terrible things, never apologize for them, and regularly got people dogpiled for small shit because his petty ego couldn't handle being criticized for said horrible shit. Don't try and tell me people who had to deal with his shit can't be happy or celebrate that he can't do that shit anymore, and thhat they need to be respectful about it
Actually, having to read more about what he ahs done, i'll say it myself: I am glad he is dead and unable to continue being a disgusting and awful person. Only wish his fanbase would have died along with him so no one would have to listen to them either
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from what i've seen tb seems like an asshole but unless we're talking about the death of a rapist or a war criminal or something of that caliber i think it's pretty tasteless to dance on someone's grave. not even saying you can't criticize the dude post-mortem but is today really the best day to be like "uhhh reminder that totalbiscuit is a problematic person and deserved to die"?
i personally don't really consider optics to be very important but i know the vast majority of leftists aren't capable of abandoning liberalism and still think optics are a big thing, so i ask those who are concerned about the left's optics and are also willing to bash some video game rando on the day of his death: how do you think this type of response will be received by the general public?
i personally don't really consider optics to be very important but i know the vast majority of leftists aren't capable of abandoning liberalism and still think optics are a big thing, so i ask those who are concerned about the left's optics and are also willing to bash some video game rando on the day of his death: how do you think this type of response will be received by the general public?
Really, I'm curious, what internet crimes was totalbiscuit ever guilty of? Even searching for articles about his pro-gamergate opinions, there is little mention of the Terrible Things that he did. Most articles I find of his criticism say that he's lied on twitter, or operated on false facts in stories in his gamergate "support". Ok, so he's got a lot of personal bias? Who is he "dogpiling"? Who was it that totalbiscuit doxxed and harassed?
Do you think that saying stuff like this makes you a hero? Is it some kind of joke I'm just not getting? Saying "man, I wish all these people I hate would die" is pretty damn extreme.
I don't think "the general public" will ever know who totalbiscuit is. Which is the part that confuses me the most about his entire history. What the hell made TB so despised? Why is he such a popular target for an internet villain? I see him getting more hate than people like damn keemstar, who barely made it into the "mainstream" news world.
I would wager totalbiscuit is two orders of magnitude less famous than logan paul; do they really garner equal hate? Are they equal on the Supervillain scale?
And of course, of course, optics is very important and all that stuff that you actually were curious about.
This sounds like more of a knee-jerk moral reaction rather than a genuine analytical response to the situation at hand. Why would you piss on a dead guy - one whose worst crime was max being a bigot - like he was someone beneath dirt?
That's vindictive.
Now this doesn't mean the anger is fake or unjustified. TB was indeed a moving part in the machine of misogynist desire or whatever. We still recognise his complicity in the system and guard ourselves. Educate ourselves and others against such hagiography.
That is admirable.
But that cannot happen if you are an asshole to dead people. If you go down that path you cannot complain about the "deluded" masses being lured away by demagogues wailing about the "regressive left."(we have a few budding ones in these forums itself) . They will do that because they want to have nothing to do with you at all. least of all to empathise with you. I'm not morally judging it myself, but just informing you about the reaction such an act induces. No human responds positively to the notion of being robbed of dignity.
Dignity is not a zero-sum game. Please do not take it away from others chasing a phyrric victory. The gamergate crowd refused to understand precisely this, and it would be tragic irony to repeat that error.
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e: (1) responding w/ "he was worse than you think" is completely missing the point. (2) there is a clear difference between calling out dead people as assholes and fucking celebrating their death like it's christmas and wishing genocide upon an entire fanbase lol.
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Man who repeatedly told those he disagreed with to get cancer and die does just that. It is not being an asshole to the dead to say an asshole was an asshole. His death changes nothing. The joy relief and catharsis found in his death isn’t a thing you can moralize and poopoo over because at the end of the day his worst crime wasn’t just being a bigot it was being a ringleader of a mob of bigots.
It’s a super common play for everyone to try and say “well online harassment isn’t that bad it’s not THAT pervasive how bad can a simple dogpile even be?” Spoilers it’s real fucking bad and the faster we actually listen to the minority groups who were and are the target of such concern trolling harassment campaigns that are “just about the ethics in games journalism” or “just about properly respecting those who’ve met a tragic end” the faster we can move to actually addressing how real an issue it actually is.
Yes TotalBiscuit wasn’t a war criminal he wasn’t a rapist or a murderer, but he was a serial harasser who leveraged his popularity to be not just one negative voice but one of hundreds or thousands who descended upon a person at once. Minimizing the vile shit he did and attempting to decry those who refuse to let all of that be forgotten is aiding and abetting the longevity of a continuous harassment machine.
The only reason anyone is even talking about this as a thing is because of the same tactics, people name searching TB and dogpiling anyone who said “fuck this guy for what he did glad he can’t do it anymore”. It’s ridiculously laughable how effective it is as a campaign.
It’s a super common play for everyone to try and say “well online harassment isn’t that bad it’s not THAT pervasive how bad can a simple dogpile even be?” Spoilers it’s real fucking bad and the faster we actually listen to the minority groups who were and are the target of such concern trolling harassment campaigns that are “just about the ethics in games journalism” or “just about properly respecting those who’ve met a tragic end” the faster we can move to actually addressing how real an issue it actually is.
Yes TotalBiscuit wasn’t a war criminal he wasn’t a rapist or a murderer, but he was a serial harasser who leveraged his popularity to be not just one negative voice but one of hundreds or thousands who descended upon a person at once. Minimizing the vile shit he did and attempting to decry those who refuse to let all of that be forgotten is aiding and abetting the longevity of a continuous harassment machine.
The only reason anyone is even talking about this as a thing is because of the same tactics, people name searching TB and dogpiling anyone who said “fuck this guy for what he did glad he can’t do it anymore”. It’s ridiculously laughable how effective it is as a campaign.
might need to reevaluate ur priorities if the death of a videogame youtuber gives u joy and catharsis
Just dont make fun of the dead. It says more about you than it does about them, and they arent even around anymore to care.
Ps: GatoDelFuego, plz dont delete this post. i would go much further into detail as to why people shouldn't make fun of the dead, but last time i did that you deleted both my posts. Stay cool, my dude
Ps: GatoDelFuego, plz dont delete this post. i would go much further into detail as to why people shouldn't make fun of the dead, but last time i did that you deleted both my posts. Stay cool, my dude
no you didn't, you just said "don't make fun of the dead", posted your standard game of thrones gif, and said that love was your greatest weakness.
You want to discuss things then go right ahead. Neither this thread nor cong are your spam playgrounds.
It’s almost as if you didn’t read a word I said about how reductionist it is to say he was just a youtuber. Bill Cosby was just a black guy who made funny noises. David Duke is just a guy who used to be the leader of a recreational club. Like, lol? Dude repeatedly would rile up an angry mob and harassed hundreds of people with it.
Might need to reevaluate your own priorities if you don’t see how that’s pretty clearly a thing that could leave a lasting harmful impression on people.
So we're comparing someone who made a career on video games making a few comments on an issue pertinent to video games with an actor who raped people and a klan wizard? Would also really like to see some proper evidence of TB urging his followers to descend on quinn et al and being some evil ringleader of le gamergate goons that you claim he is. Or perhaps come back to this thread when you're ready to have a real discussion without hiding behind your false equivalencies and pathetic attempts at trolling
It’s not a false equivalency to compare a serial abuser to other serial abusers you’re just upset because I’m listening to those he abused and how he did it and you’re refusing to accept that anyone could ever have experienced abuse at his hands and anyone who says they did is lying. It’s cool how freely and easily you’re flipping through the old GG playbook though. “Where is the PROOF that he TOLD his followers to do ANYTHING.” Everyone knows there’s none because that wasn’t how the mob attacked andyaknowit. A simple quote tweet of someone on the subject is all that was needed at times. But yeah whatevs I’m trolling because he had a fkd up part in some fkd up shit and I’m allowing people to be affected by that in a variety of ways while you and others are getting worked up about people being allowed to react a certain way or something? It’s not really clear why you care tbh.
So, asking for examples of something is "the gamergate playbook"?
you're telling me that if you try and use Twitter, you are responsible for what your followers do if you quote tweet somebody? I don't think that you can judge many people in the world by their "followers" (with the exception of maybe people like, cultists), and on Twitter of all places that seems to be the least controllable place.
dude's followers harass people and he tells them they aren't actually harassing ppl
he calls a movement that is highly political and normalizing of online harassment a movement about journalistic ethics, and as we all just saw itt the most political assertions are those which paint some position or activity as 'apolitical'
you want proof that this dude is a piece of shit but then you also want ppl to stop dragging his name through the mud, yall really need to make up your minds.
did you mistake demoness for an investigative reporter here to educate you in exchange for clicks? why are you asking her for proof? dont you know how to use google? or do u just enjoy a good, and extremely ironic, dogpiling?
here i did it for you
from a retraction by a company that published him
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2017/08/17/on-our-totalbiscuit-article
"That context would be that Bain inarguably came to engage with and encourage Gamergate. He has in the past argued that it was not a harassment campaign and not a misogynist movement, an account that any of us working here at Kotaku UK would vehemently dispute from personal experience. It was a mistake not to include this context in the interview, and it was insensitive to those to whom Gamergate and its followers have caused pain."
and then an article which really gets into why you probably cant find a lot of stuff about totalbiscuit: his followers harass people.
https://medium.com/@SvizraLion/everything-totalbiscuit-got-wrong-in-way-too-many-words-4df407e8113c
the format on this one ^ is confusing because tb's statements are rendered in plain text with the author's 'corrective' comments are in bold. you can see tb had maintained an understanding of online harassment in which only threats and doxxing are considered forms of harassment, other abuses are dismissed and/or naturalized
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Gamergate
"August 18:
yawn
i don't care about optics, but i find it funny that those that do can't really see how they look when they get caught doing a dogpile because they can't google search
now ppl are probably gonna dismiss my post as like 'oh he wasn't really that bad' 'why are you trying to bring dirt on him itt, ur such vengeful hater'.
tl;dr
*michelle wolf voice*
yall are obsessed with people hating on dead tb. did yall used to date someone that hated on tb? because you pretend like you hate demoness' post, but I think you secretly love it.
he calls a movement that is highly political and normalizing of online harassment a movement about journalistic ethics, and as we all just saw itt the most political assertions are those which paint some position or activity as 'apolitical'
you want proof that this dude is a piece of shit but then you also want ppl to stop dragging his name through the mud, yall really need to make up your minds.
did you mistake demoness for an investigative reporter here to educate you in exchange for clicks? why are you asking her for proof? dont you know how to use google? or do u just enjoy a good, and extremely ironic, dogpiling?
here i did it for you
from a retraction by a company that published him
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2017/08/17/on-our-totalbiscuit-article
"That context would be that Bain inarguably came to engage with and encourage Gamergate. He has in the past argued that it was not a harassment campaign and not a misogynist movement, an account that any of us working here at Kotaku UK would vehemently dispute from personal experience. It was a mistake not to include this context in the interview, and it was insensitive to those to whom Gamergate and its followers have caused pain."
and then an article which really gets into why you probably cant find a lot of stuff about totalbiscuit: his followers harass people.
https://medium.com/@SvizraLion/everything-totalbiscuit-got-wrong-in-way-too-many-words-4df407e8113c
the format on this one ^ is confusing because tb's statements are rendered in plain text with the author's 'corrective' comments are in bold. you can see tb had maintained an understanding of online harassment in which only threats and doxxing are considered forms of harassment, other abuses are dismissed and/or naturalized
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Gamergate
"August 18:
- John "TotalBiscuit" Bain propagates the slander against Zoe Quinn to his more than 350.000 followers on Twitter, based on the "Zoe Post," the video by Internet Aristocrat and possibly information from the IRC members. He is heavily criticized by independent game developers in reaction."
- Zoe Quinn, having been doxxed on /v/, is harassed via phone calls to her family.
- The Fine Young Capitalists' Matthew Rappard claims on Reddit that Zoe Quinn sabotaged their game jam and doxxed him, without providing any proof (the claims he made under his username SillySladar were deleted and/or edited later on). His call for support is spread on Reddit and 4chan. His accusations seem to be based upon a conversation with Zoe Quinn from March, compiled by /u/metroidcomposite, that apparently was settled in private.
- A Reddit thread on /r/gaming/ about John "TotalBiscuit" Bain's hitpiece gets mass-deleted due to witch-hunting (a breach of global Reddit rules). This was used as an example of "censorship" and "collusion" between Reddit and Zoe Quinn, after one /r/gaming mod warns her about the on-going doxxing in the thread.
- Polytron founder Phil Fish calls out John "TotalBiscuit" Bain for his attack on Zoe Quinn and becomes a target for harassment in the process.
yawn
i don't care about optics, but i find it funny that those that do can't really see how they look when they get caught doing a dogpile because they can't google search
now ppl are probably gonna dismiss my post as like 'oh he wasn't really that bad' 'why are you trying to bring dirt on him itt, ur such vengeful hater'.
tl;dr
*michelle wolf voice*
yall are obsessed with people hating on dead tb. did yall used to date someone that hated on tb? because you pretend like you hate demoness' post, but I think you secretly love it.
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*shrug* idk, i guess i'm giving the left a bad name because someone with no clout or standing in any leftist cricles IRL or online posted that they hated a shitty bigot. and honestly, even with sources, i doubt that anything i said bad about him would have stopped people trying to tell me how much of a shit person I am
important reminder that asking for proof isn’t an attack on the opposing argument and the original post alleging such accusations should be sourced anyway to prevent these disputes. imo leave the vitriol out of the posts, kicking a man when he is dead is quite possibly the dumbest hill i’ve ever seen someone try to die on. if you want to celebrate his death then fine whatever everyone has reasons to hate but leave it out of threads man. dont bring that negativity to the forums. absolutely no reason that there needs to be 10+ posts bickering between whether or not its morally reprehensible to spit on a dead man’s grave (hint, it is). like the man or dislike the man hes gone and shitting on him now does no good. if u want to fight misogyny or racism or journalism or whatever there are plenty of real-time examples you can focus your attention on instead
thanks for rousing me from months of not visiting shitty cong/firebot, assholes
I'm not sure how you can call "GamerGate" solely a political movement and not about journalistic integrity when the origin of it is literally exactly that: some dude got his dick wet and was promoting his girl's shitty non-game as some revolutionary thing. Alright, maybe you could take both things out of the original situation -- Is he eroding trust in the media, by not disclosing his relationship to the game dev whose game he is promoting, or is she abusing her feminine wiles to undeservingly elevate her status in the gaming industry? Maybe a little of both?-- but TotalBiscuit was basically uninvolved in the entire controversy outside of a couple lengthy comments he made where he indeed mostly concerned himself with the former, so seeing uppity SJW-types shit on his grave acting as if he was the Supreme Leader of GamerGate boggles my mind.
Me personally, I do believe GamerGate was a media thing primarily. The main reason it took on a second identity of being a misogyny campaign is because radical SJWs and especially media personalities so concerned about covering their own asses instead of owning up to their dishonesty pushed the narrative so hard to label anybody remotely associated with the so-called "movement" as literally Hitler to discredit their accusations (instead of actually cleaning up their acts), some individual trolls started doing it because they were going to labeled regardless and chose to make the offenders pay for their crimes, so to speak. Yes, when you baselessly attack a large group of people minding their own business, some of them will seek revenge. WHO KNEW? There's no grand conspiracy by gamerbros to keep women out of gaming here. It's like getting temp-banned for no reason from somewhere, making an alt, and then getting perma-banned for ban evading. Should they have registered an alt? No, that's an inappropriate response and in some manner they deserve to be chided for that decision, but ultimately they didn't do anything wrong in the first place.
TB wasn't a fucking "ringleader" of anything. He barely gave a shit about GamerGate and did his best to stay the fuck out of the whole controversy, at worst making a couple of lengthy comments similar to what I said above about the ordeal as a sort of basic explanation to his listeners and response to his harassers. Now, wanna shit on his grave because you thought TB was a huge asshole in general? Fine, but be a little more respectful about it in the company of strangers some of whom may not necessarily share your strong feelings against him. Save the more vile commentary for your like-minded little cliques, and don't hate him for something he wasn't really even involved in.
Me, I barely knew TB outside of the fact he existed and involved in gaming journalism. I didn't much care for his way of reviewing games but I rather respected the integrity of his work.
I'm not sure how you can call "GamerGate" solely a political movement and not about journalistic integrity when the origin of it is literally exactly that: some dude got his dick wet and was promoting his girl's shitty non-game as some revolutionary thing. Alright, maybe you could take both things out of the original situation -- Is he eroding trust in the media, by not disclosing his relationship to the game dev whose game he is promoting, or is she abusing her feminine wiles to undeservingly elevate her status in the gaming industry? Maybe a little of both?-- but TotalBiscuit was basically uninvolved in the entire controversy outside of a couple lengthy comments he made where he indeed mostly concerned himself with the former, so seeing uppity SJW-types shit on his grave acting as if he was the Supreme Leader of GamerGate boggles my mind.
Me personally, I do believe GamerGate was a media thing primarily. The main reason it took on a second identity of being a misogyny campaign is because radical SJWs and especially media personalities so concerned about covering their own asses instead of owning up to their dishonesty pushed the narrative so hard to label anybody remotely associated with the so-called "movement" as literally Hitler to discredit their accusations (instead of actually cleaning up their acts), some individual trolls started doing it because they were going to labeled regardless and chose to make the offenders pay for their crimes, so to speak. Yes, when you baselessly attack a large group of people minding their own business, some of them will seek revenge. WHO KNEW? There's no grand conspiracy by gamerbros to keep women out of gaming here. It's like getting temp-banned for no reason from somewhere, making an alt, and then getting perma-banned for ban evading. Should they have registered an alt? No, that's an inappropriate response and in some manner they deserve to be chided for that decision, but ultimately they didn't do anything wrong in the first place.
TB wasn't a fucking "ringleader" of anything. He barely gave a shit about GamerGate and did his best to stay the fuck out of the whole controversy, at worst making a couple of lengthy comments similar to what I said above about the ordeal as a sort of basic explanation to his listeners and response to his harassers. Now, wanna shit on his grave because you thought TB was a huge asshole in general? Fine, but be a little more respectful about it in the company of strangers some of whom may not necessarily share your strong feelings against him. Save the more vile commentary for your like-minded little cliques, and don't hate him for something he wasn't really even involved in.
Me, I barely knew TB outside of the fact he existed and involved in gaming journalism. I didn't much care for his way of reviewing games but I rather respected the integrity of his work.
does someone have a response to the “the U.S. is at an all time unemployment low of 3.8%” quip that he’s been slinging around, because that feels like a deeply misconstrued statistic (such as his statitistic that he had 50+% approval rating). I find it hard to believe with so many jobs closing down + businesses closing branches that theres actually an increase in employment, or at least in jobs that mattered. I couldnt really find anything substantial while googling so im hoping another internet warrior could point me in the right direction
hard to believe a man thats directly attacking his allies in UK Germany and Canada also is responsible for a low unemployment rate, theres gotta be a piece of the puzzle im missing (not that im looking for one, employment isnt everything but a low unemployment is still good).
hard to believe a man thats directly attacking his allies in UK Germany and Canada also is responsible for a low unemployment rate, theres gotta be a piece of the puzzle im missing (not that im looking for one, employment isnt everything but a low unemployment is still good).
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