My goodness. Genosect is insanely powerful. If you got an Att boost from Download, use can use U-turn, and if you got a Sp.Att boost from download, you can use Bug Buzz or the other elemental moves ( Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Flamethrower ). equip it with Choice Scarf to do even more damage
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Genesect
- Thread starter Ad Terminum
- Start date
I wouldnt go as far as to say Shandera is the reason hes being held back really.I think it can be compared to say Gengar's condition last gen.Even though Scizor is troublesome for him it didnt really force you to run something like MYSTIC all the time.Idk why people are only talking about Scarf either though lol.RP is pretty cool.And ive been using the Scarfed set with a LO instead and its been really helpful aginst stall.
While Shandera is easily his most common counter, I think Rotom-H is actually a stronger counter because he resists all of Genosekuto's main moves (Bug, Fire, Electric, Ice).
Well, typewise at least. He doesn't trap him also.
Well, typewise at least. He doesn't trap him also.
Shed shell.
In the case of Geno it doesn't really matter, it gets download which is basically a substitute to life orb and choice specs, if you can nab the boost of your choice.
It won't need the speed of choice scarf when using shed shell. If you ask me, it works fine in theory
Also, what if you kill something with flamethrower or thunderbolt? Shandera or Magnezone(and even Dugtrio) can come in and stomp you flat even if you have that scarf since they'll survive at least one, and you can't u-turn. Shed shell will save you.
I think it's worth testing at least.
Also, that's the worst argument for banning shadow tag.
It won't need the speed of choice scarf when using shed shell. If you ask me, it works fine in theory
Also, what if you kill something with flamethrower or thunderbolt? Shandera or Magnezone(and even Dugtrio) can come in and stomp you flat even if you have that scarf since they'll survive at least one, and you can't u-turn. Shed shell will save you.
I think it's worth testing at least.
Also, that's the worst argument for banning shadow tag.
Shandera isn't Genosect's problem. Both RP and Scarf are perfectly capable of beating it. Actually, I really can't name much of anything that beats Genosect consistently besides Blissey, Chansey, and maybe Heatran. Beating him outright is rather difficult while he's spamming U-turn, but no amount of U-turns will keep yout from being walled by ChanseBliss.
How does Chansey/Blissey wall U-Turn. Also, a Download, Claw Sharpen (if you want to go that route), X-Scissor easily 2 hit koes them and unless Blissey has Flamethrower/Thunderwave, it'll kill them. Chansey will always have Toxic as far as I know and Seismic Toss/Wish/Protect which you can take advantage of with another Claw Sharpen.
Claw Sharpen might not be great, but it does force things out and can then use Thunder/Blizzard/etc.
You can't Claw Sharpen with scarf, nor is it a good idea to use with Rock Polish, so you're going to lose out speed-wise if you go that route.
It isn't that slow and has a pretty good typing that really only fears Flamethrower. It trolls a lot of the threatening non-choice scarfers anyway and most things that are naturally faster are lesser seen unless it's Latios, Shaymin-S, Deoxys, Darkrai (surprised for no Terakion for how useful it is but what have you). Go debated Ubers! It doesn't want to take hits from those.
And/or bait an Eccentric Ditto and/or Transform Pokemon by opting for a super-effective against "itself" Techno Buster and/or Hidden Power.
Hidden Power wouldn't work, since Transform/Eccentric copies IVs, but Techno Buster would. Sharp-eyed players might notice the cartridge, but it'd probably be a good surprise most of the time.
Well, Rotom-H is now crap, so I don't think he'll see much use
Totally different roles. Scizor has Technician, Pursuit, Bullet Punch, and better defenses
Not at all.Generally as a Revenge killer they perform pretty much the exact same role of powerful U-turn in conjunction with other means of revenging.I think Genosekuto is far far better then Scizor at this because he has more powerful moves,Greater coverage while Scizor is pretty much stuck with only Bullet Punch which has a bad typing and is walled by a lot.
I'm going to have to say two things.
One, Rotom-H is not worse, in fact he might be better.
Two, Scizor and Genosekuto perform completely different roles.
Real quick, Rotom-H's defensive typing is amazing now at least in my opinion. Forfeiting the Normal immunity is only sacrificing his role as a rapid spin block and the fighting immunity is unfortunate, but with so many new powerful fighting types running pursuit and payback, he wouldn't have been able to effectively take advantage of that. In response, he got a weakness to water and rock. While rock is a bitch thanks to stealth rock, water is easily handled by having a water absorber, which already carries enough merit on a team to absorb rain booster attacks. In addition he gains a resistance to fire and grass (among others that are less important) while keeping his 4x resistance to bug. In the current meta-game, being able to absorb fire and grass moves are more valuable to me than fighting moves.
On to genosekuto: Scizor has, and always will be in my opinion, a premier revenge killer. With a high powered bullet punch and pursuit, not many pokemon can expect to live after losing half their life to whatever they took out. However, it's not genosekuto's job to revenge kill, it's to scout and dent.
Choice Scarf, with a speed nature and equal attacking stats can do wonders on a team. U-turn for momentum gain and hit Psychic and Dark type's hard while outspeeding even some scarf variants or predict a switch and nail the appropriate beam. If played smartly, he can quickly wear down a team and strike with deadly efficiency. While I have been wrecked at points by a rock polish set or life orb set, very little can be done to stop a choice scarf set other than priority attacks or hoping to whittle him on his switches. With hazard control, he becomes a real nuisance.
One, Rotom-H is not worse, in fact he might be better.
Two, Scizor and Genosekuto perform completely different roles.
Real quick, Rotom-H's defensive typing is amazing now at least in my opinion. Forfeiting the Normal immunity is only sacrificing his role as a rapid spin block and the fighting immunity is unfortunate, but with so many new powerful fighting types running pursuit and payback, he wouldn't have been able to effectively take advantage of that. In response, he got a weakness to water and rock. While rock is a bitch thanks to stealth rock, water is easily handled by having a water absorber, which already carries enough merit on a team to absorb rain booster attacks. In addition he gains a resistance to fire and grass (among others that are less important) while keeping his 4x resistance to bug. In the current meta-game, being able to absorb fire and grass moves are more valuable to me than fighting moves.
On to genosekuto: Scizor has, and always will be in my opinion, a premier revenge killer. With a high powered bullet punch and pursuit, not many pokemon can expect to live after losing half their life to whatever they took out. However, it's not genosekuto's job to revenge kill, it's to scout and dent.
Choice Scarf, with a speed nature and equal attacking stats can do wonders on a team. U-turn for momentum gain and hit Psychic and Dark type's hard while outspeeding even some scarf variants or predict a switch and nail the appropriate beam. If played smartly, he can quickly wear down a team and strike with deadly efficiency. While I have been wrecked at points by a rock polish set or life orb set, very little can be done to stop a choice scarf set other than priority attacks or hoping to whittle him on his switches. With hazard control, he becomes a real nuisance.
As far as I see, Genosect has a really good shot at it using a Rock polish set. If you ever thought AgilLucario can stop offensive teams by speed-sweeping them, take a look at Genosect! Solely, this set:
Genosekuto @ Aqua Cassette
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Techno Buster
- Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
You'll need to time the switch perfectly in order to pull off the Rock Polish. If you manage to pull off a +1 special attack boost through download by switching in correctly, you can consider chances of yourself outright winning the game! If this Genosect ever gets a +2 speed and +1 special attack, it is a real force!
Now, how this set works after the boost is something to look at. Firstly, we have a good STAB move in Bug Buzz which will hurt quite a lot considering the power it comes off of.
The notable Bug Buzz resisters are Skarmory, Gyarados, Salamence/Dragonite, Heatran, Blaziken, Shandera and Burugeru among many many others. The other two moves are just for this reason. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam is a really tough choice. If Dragons are walling you so hard, Ice Beam can go well with it, destroying them with OHKOes and also hitting the many Flying types which resist Bug Buzz. If water types are giving you hassle, Thunderbolt it is. Note that the overall coverage of thunderbolt in this set is much greater than ice beam, so that is something to consider too.
Oh, the Techno Buster is rather essential here. A water attack here is very nice to take out those Fire types that will wall you hard especially if you are going with Ice Beam. Seeing how effortlessly Heatran and Shandera stop Genosect, a water type Techno Buster is very useful. If you go with Thunderbolt, there is no reason to believe that water Techno Buster is not that effective. It gets the many Ground types out there who will otherwise wall you.
It is tempting to use The BoltBeam here and sacrifice water Techno Buster for one of these moves as well as another item, but there are so many offensive teams out there who get really messed with a fast water type attack user.
Looking at what this genosect stops, we can see many offensive Pokemon getting out-sped right in their tracks and OHKOed. Blaziken can't outspeed +2 speed Genosect even if the Protect works 2 times in a row and Techno Buster is an OHKO. Scarf Shandera is a common switch-in, who is also OHKOed by this and out-sped. Heatran is another one which makes it on the KOed list (albeit this one will probably need the +1 special attack boost to OHKO). Sazandora, Tyranitar and many other Darkies are OHKOed by STAB. There are many more out there, but I'll look at the one I am most concerned about: Doryuuzu. +2 Modest Genosect out-speeds Adamant Doryuuzu in Sandstorm and OHKO with Techno Buster, but Jolly Doryuuzu, though less common, isn't out-sped. So this might be one reason to consider a Timid nature for Genosect, though I don't think Jolly Doryuuzu is all that common. It is something to keep in mind.
As for counters, this version of Genosect (like every other special version) is stopped cold by Blissey. I bet you saw that coming, but that's why we have 5 other Pokemon in a team. Nattorei stops him too, but can only threaten to cripple with Thunder wave. If thunder wave is absent and Genosect has pulled off a +1 special attack download, Bug buzz will hurt and Leech seed just isn't enough to survive the power, especially since Nattorei cannot even touch Genosect with direct moves.
Finally, a surprising counter I found was Ninetales. Though this set manages to take Ninetales somewhat well, he can be a great stop to almost any Genosect. A 100 base speed to guarantee out-speeding and coupled with 100 base special defense to take those shots helps switch in well. Water techno buster is greatly weakened by the Drought ability and Ninetales can just OHKO with a fire move. As I have been seeing, Thunderbolt seems to be the ONLY consistent move on Genosect's sets that can at least hit Ninetales neutrally. Something to think about as a Genosect counter, if not at least a check. Oh and a +1 Hidden power ground from a non-Life Orb Genosect (even from Modest) doesn't OHKO 0 special defense 0 HP Ninetales.
Genosekuto @ Aqua Cassette
Trait: Download
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Techno Buster
- Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
You'll need to time the switch perfectly in order to pull off the Rock Polish. If you manage to pull off a +1 special attack boost through download by switching in correctly, you can consider chances of yourself outright winning the game! If this Genosect ever gets a +2 speed and +1 special attack, it is a real force!
Now, how this set works after the boost is something to look at. Firstly, we have a good STAB move in Bug Buzz which will hurt quite a lot considering the power it comes off of.
The notable Bug Buzz resisters are Skarmory, Gyarados, Salamence/Dragonite, Heatran, Blaziken, Shandera and Burugeru among many many others. The other two moves are just for this reason. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam is a really tough choice. If Dragons are walling you so hard, Ice Beam can go well with it, destroying them with OHKOes and also hitting the many Flying types which resist Bug Buzz. If water types are giving you hassle, Thunderbolt it is. Note that the overall coverage of thunderbolt in this set is much greater than ice beam, so that is something to consider too.
Oh, the Techno Buster is rather essential here. A water attack here is very nice to take out those Fire types that will wall you hard especially if you are going with Ice Beam. Seeing how effortlessly Heatran and Shandera stop Genosect, a water type Techno Buster is very useful. If you go with Thunderbolt, there is no reason to believe that water Techno Buster is not that effective. It gets the many Ground types out there who will otherwise wall you.
It is tempting to use The BoltBeam here and sacrifice water Techno Buster for one of these moves as well as another item, but there are so many offensive teams out there who get really messed with a fast water type attack user.
Looking at what this genosect stops, we can see many offensive Pokemon getting out-sped right in their tracks and OHKOed. Blaziken can't outspeed +2 speed Genosect even if the Protect works 2 times in a row and Techno Buster is an OHKO. Scarf Shandera is a common switch-in, who is also OHKOed by this and out-sped. Heatran is another one which makes it on the KOed list (albeit this one will probably need the +1 special attack boost to OHKO). Sazandora, Tyranitar and many other Darkies are OHKOed by STAB. There are many more out there, but I'll look at the one I am most concerned about: Doryuuzu. +2 Modest Genosect out-speeds Adamant Doryuuzu in Sandstorm and OHKO with Techno Buster, but Jolly Doryuuzu, though less common, isn't out-sped. So this might be one reason to consider a Timid nature for Genosect, though I don't think Jolly Doryuuzu is all that common. It is something to keep in mind.
As for counters, this version of Genosect (like every other special version) is stopped cold by Blissey. I bet you saw that coming, but that's why we have 5 other Pokemon in a team. Nattorei stops him too, but can only threaten to cripple with Thunder wave. If thunder wave is absent and Genosect has pulled off a +1 special attack download, Bug buzz will hurt and Leech seed just isn't enough to survive the power, especially since Nattorei cannot even touch Genosect with direct moves.
Finally, a surprising counter I found was Ninetales. Though this set manages to take Ninetales somewhat well, he can be a great stop to almost any Genosect. A 100 base speed to guarantee out-speeding and coupled with 100 base special defense to take those shots helps switch in well. Water techno buster is greatly weakened by the Drought ability and Ninetales can just OHKO with a fire move. As I have been seeing, Thunderbolt seems to be the ONLY consistent move on Genosect's sets that can at least hit Ninetales neutrally. Something to think about as a Genosect counter, if not at least a check. Oh and a +1 Hidden power ground from a non-Life Orb Genosect (even from Modest) doesn't OHKO 0 special defense 0 HP Ninetales.
I know it's Genosect's signature, but there is really no reason to ever use Techno Buster. Life Orb boosts all of your moves and makes HP Water stronger than Technobuster (but then you might just as well use HP Ground).
LOL, then run LO with a Normal Technobuster. Kidding.
a small nitpick but scizor's defences are 70/100/80 while genosekuto's are 71/95/95 so genosekuto's defences are actually better...
The OP really needs to be updated with a Rock Polish set... with a thread-full of people bawwing about this thing's speed you'd think Rock Polish sets would be in high demand not choice sets, or other boosting moves like nitro charge and claw sharpen. seriously, the OP has Nitro and CS sets but no Rock Polish? Fucking stupid.
MY current favourite set for genosekuto is:
Genosekuto@Life Orb
Naive(+Spe/-SpD)
156 Spe/176 Atk/176 SpA
~Nitro CHarge
~Thunderbolt
~X-Scissor
~Flash Cannon
ThIs mixed set works a treat since you can get the speed boost from nitro charge, and the attack/SpA boost from download, and sweep away with that
Genosekuto@Life Orb
Naive(+Spe/-SpD)
156 Spe/176 Atk/176 SpA
~Nitro CHarge
~Thunderbolt
~X-Scissor
~Flash Cannon
ThIs mixed set works a treat since you can get the speed boost from nitro charge, and the attack/SpA boost from download, and sweep away with that