I guess the OP needs to be reformatted such that the Mega Gengar sets are hidden and the Gengar sets are pushed to the top as well as adding more sets as suggested by members. Lot's of work to be done, I've left 3 threads and a trading one due to severe illness so hopefully within the next 3 days everything will be updated.
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Pokémon Gengar
- Thread starter X5Dragon
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I once used the SubSplit set and it works somewhat well, but anything that Gengar cannot 2HKO counters it. I do not know what two coverage moves to use due to the existence of Fairies. Focus Blast + Shadow Ball has the potential to 2HKO Blissey (yes potential since the RNG gods may not allow you to realize it, but this seems to be a dubious proposition because Focus Blast can be PP stalled), but Focus Blast does not hit Fairies so can use Sludge Bomb.
Also, Moonblast does enough damage that it breaks Gengar's subs unless one invests in HP or special defense, but for Gengar speed and power is almost non-negotiable. I doubt it can be a good general stallbreaker or anticleric in Gen 6 simply due to Fairies, but it does perform well against certain teams. Gengar has excellent typing and ability, but the SubSplit set suffers from a serious case of 4MSS as Substitute and Pain Split consume two slots. Also, not to mention the existence of Greninja and various Sucker Punch users.
Edit: Sub Split Gengar is a hard counter to Kangaskhan if it runs Power-up Punch/Earthquake/Sucker Punch/and Return as it can PP stall Sucker Punch. I think there may be a trend for it to start running Crunch now because Sucker Punch (unfortunately, I really wish it was nerfed so it does not hit super-effectively) does not trigger the attack drop on King's Shield.
Greninja seems to occupy the niche of "special all out attacker" in terms of coverage. Compared to Greninja, Gengar can only claim to pure offensive supremacy are more powerful neutral attacks. Landorus-I* also competes against it as an all-out special attacker since it wins in sheer damage output.
*it originally said Landorus-T
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I usually run SubSplit Gengar, and despite admittedly running into 4MSS between wanting to run both Focus Miss and Sludge Bomb, I haven't really had much problems using it (I usually opt for Sludge Bomb, as Gengar's teammates can easily handle Blissey and T-tar, and STAB Sludge Bomb is not something to be underestimated, least of all by Fairies). Sucker Punch hasn't yet been a problem because it's pretty easy to predict when a poke has it, and Substitute pretty much solves any issues (not to mention getting a free switch into something else). It's actually really easy to play around Kangaskhan since it has a lot of checks if it's not at +2, so the free switch works out reaaaaaallll nicely. Although Greninja and Landorus-T outshine Gengar as an all-out offensive special attacker, I think SubSplit Gengar's a much better team player because you can really play around your opponent trying to deal with your SubSplitting ways.
So yeah, SubSplit Gengar's not going to be able to beat every single team, but I've found it can find a situation to come in and be annoying to the opponent at almost every point during the match. It needs teammates to function, but it's not hard finding teammates that can support and appreciate Gengar's presence.
I've browsed through all the pages here and there over some time, but, now that Mega Gengar is Uber and banned from OU, could someone help me out with my moveset???
I'm not that seriously into competitive battling, and Gengar is my favorite pokemon.
Timid
252 speed/252 sp. attack/ the rest to HP
Held item??? (was Gengarite)
Substitute
Disable
Shadow Ball
Dazzling Gleam
So should I drop Dazzling Gleam for Sludge Bomb (I read Sludge Wave isn't available to Gengar even through TM because it's Dream World only?)
Any advice is appreciated. I'm new, so apologies if I posted incorrectly.
I'm not that seriously into competitive battling, and Gengar is my favorite pokemon.
Timid
252 speed/252 sp. attack/ the rest to HP
Held item??? (was Gengarite)
Substitute
Disable
Shadow Ball
Dazzling Gleam
So should I drop Dazzling Gleam for Sludge Bomb (I read Sludge Wave isn't available to Gengar even through TM because it's Dream World only?)
Any advice is appreciated. I'm new, so apologies if I posted incorrectly.
According to Serebii, Gengar now gets Reflect Type as an egg move. How viable would this be on a set for him?
t-tar switches in -> reflect type on pursuit -> escape
it can be pulled off, but subbing on the switch or something is usually preferred.
Not at all. Gengar is so frail even resisted attacks hit pretty hard. Giving up a moveslot and a turn for a extremely situational move that will most likely make you lose your stab is not smart. You are better off using substitute. It's very gimmicky on latias, a very bulky sweeper with boosting moves. If latias can't really pull it off, Gengar can't.
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I was skeptical of the utility of SubSplit Gengar. Substitutes are quite fearsome especially if one cannot break the sub or one has to use a move such as Hydro Pump in an attempt to break it. This is one reason why Tyraniboah and Gen 4/5 SubSplit Gengar was a premiere stall breaker as Blissey cannot break the former's subs in two turns. An uninvested Clefable's Moonblast does not guarantee breaking Gengar's subs, but uninvested Slyveon's Moonblast does.
SubSplit does require prediction though when to use the Sub especially during a switch. Moreover, Gengar is a popular substitute user so there is an incentive to attack to break a newly formed Sub, so one does not have the element of surprise. I am generally a more conservative player in regards to prediction (although I am not averse to using confusion, paralysis, Scald, and flinch hax in an attempt to gain free turns or cripple something but I generally prefer accurate attacks such as Scald over Hydro Pump) so it does not suit my playing style.
HORRIBLY LATE REPLY: What if you used Disable instead of Substitute? It'd be riskier (if the opponent switches attacks you're probably dead), but it saves you from Pursuit very effectively if T-tar tries to use it second turn. (It also works against anything that tries to use the same attack it went at your Protect with, which is going to be a fair few pokemon I'd guess. Doesn't fail against sound-based moves or Infiltrator pokemon either).
Not even a little bit. Besides, Gengar is so frail, it probably won't be able to survive a hit to get the move off. Also, Reflect Type is able to be played around. Why lose one of your coverage moves for a super gimmicky move that only Latias can effectively pull off? Gengar is meant as a glass cannon; hits hard and fast, with weak defenses.
If you're running Substitute, you definitely want Leftovers as your item if you're not running Pain Split. Gengar manages to recover a lot more HP than you'd think, mostly because of how many switches it forces and free turns it gets. As for Dazzling Gleam, it's generally a better idea to run either Focus Blast or Sludge Bomb simply because of the better coverage and/or power.
I never see Gengar on the ladder right now, but I think once Kanga and mega Luc go down he will rise in usage. Lando and Greninja (hell, any poke in the game really) can't compete with Gengar's set of immunities and resistances. You don't use him for pure power like the other 2, you use him to gain momentum and mess with the other team.
I still find Gengar usable even without its Mega Evolution. It does have issues against faster Pokemon (Priority as well), but it's still great. I've been using SubDisable in Pokebank OU to some success...but I've made a change that throws everybody off.
SubDisable @ Black Sludge
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
That's right. I'm using Dazzling Gleam to throw some Pokemon off on the switch. Since I have Pokemon like Tyranitar, Bisharp, and other Steel/Dark Types covered, I can afford to run Dazzling Gleam (not to mention that it hits Dark-Types on the switch; not as much as Focus Blast, but you don't have to worry about anything missing). I found it helpful when Revenge Killing Pokemon like Breloom, Conkeldurr, Non-Scarf Terrakion, Scrafty, Heracross+Mega, Infernape, Chesnaught, Sableye (yes, I actually did that), and also taking Pokemon like Mandibuzz out. I think it might be from the surprise factor more than anything, but it definitely gives Gengar some nice options. As far as Sludge Bomb and Focus Blast come...it was a hard choice for me, but it's come in handy many times over.
SubDisable @ Black Sludge
Nature: Timid
Ability: Levitate
4 HP/252 Sp. Atk/252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Disable
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
That's right. I'm using Dazzling Gleam to throw some Pokemon off on the switch. Since I have Pokemon like Tyranitar, Bisharp, and other Steel/Dark Types covered, I can afford to run Dazzling Gleam (not to mention that it hits Dark-Types on the switch; not as much as Focus Blast, but you don't have to worry about anything missing). I found it helpful when Revenge Killing Pokemon like Breloom, Conkeldurr, Non-Scarf Terrakion, Scrafty, Heracross+Mega, Infernape, Chesnaught, Sableye (yes, I actually did that), and also taking Pokemon like Mandibuzz out. I think it might be from the surprise factor more than anything, but it definitely gives Gengar some nice options. As far as Sludge Bomb and Focus Blast come...it was a hard choice for me, but it's come in handy many times over.
I have been running this set:
Gengar @ life orb / focus sash
Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Sludge Bomb / Taunt / Dazzling Gleam
Destiny Bond / Taunt
The Shadow Blast coverage hits everything in existence neutrally and with 130 SpA and a life orb, Gengar ensures 2HKO's on almost anything that isn't a special wall or assault vest user. Sludge Bomb is there for fairies and as a more powerful stab option in the rare cases when shadow ball won't do the trick. Dazzling gleam is an option to hit fighting and dragon types super effectively and to deter something like assault vest conkeldurr and goodra from switching in (Goodra still defeats you, but can force him to reconsider switching in again) Taunt is a great option to defeat dedicated walls like blissey and to defeat stall in general. It can also be used as an anti-lead to prevent smeargle or other obvious hazard users from setting up. Destiny bond can often net you an extra kill against a slower mon that cannot finish you off with priority.
Gengar @ life orb / focus sash
Timid
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast
Sludge Bomb / Taunt / Dazzling Gleam
Destiny Bond / Taunt
The Shadow Blast coverage hits everything in existence neutrally and with 130 SpA and a life orb, Gengar ensures 2HKO's on almost anything that isn't a special wall or assault vest user. Sludge Bomb is there for fairies and as a more powerful stab option in the rare cases when shadow ball won't do the trick. Dazzling gleam is an option to hit fighting and dragon types super effectively and to deter something like assault vest conkeldurr and goodra from switching in (Goodra still defeats you, but can force him to reconsider switching in again) Taunt is a great option to defeat dedicated walls like blissey and to defeat stall in general. It can also be used as an anti-lead to prevent smeargle or other obvious hazard users from setting up. Destiny bond can often net you an extra kill against a slower mon that cannot finish you off with priority.
People using Dazzling Gleam, can you provide some calcs to prove it's worth using over Sludge Bomb or Focus Blast? I find it hard to believe it gets as many important K.Os as you claim since it only hits for 25 more base power than Sludge Bomb even when it's super effective. And you lose a lot of powerful neutral coverage.
Sludge Bomb's chance to poison shouldn't be dismissed either, it's the same as Scald or Lava Plume's chance to burn.
Sludge Bomb's chance to poison shouldn't be dismissed either, it's the same as Scald or Lava Plume's chance to burn.
First one I could think of:
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 151-178 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- 27.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 202-238 (56.4 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
100% chance of a 2HKO against a 27.3% chance of a 2HKO. Gengar isn't taking more than one of Garchomp's attacks, so that can make the difference.
It's not huge, but it's something.
...and give reason for Conkeldurr to switch in?
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 248-292 (59.9 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Conkeldurr: 208-246 (50.2 - 59.4%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Guaranteed 2HKO compared to chancing it?
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 384-452 (118.1 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 284-336 (87.3 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
So, once again, guaranteed?
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 262-310 (96.6 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mienshao: 220-261 (81.1 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Well...there...?
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sableye: 124-147 (40.7 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
...zing?
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 182-216 (50.8 - 60.3%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 137-162 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Take that, hopefully-buffed-next-game Dragon!
252 SpA Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 236-278 (78.1 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 36 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 198-234 (65.5 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Umm...no difference?
I said this before, but I simply find Dazzling Gleam a surprise shot at Fight and Dragon-Types that think they're safe against Gengar. If one has everything covered, Dazzling Gleam on Gengar becomes somehow worth the while...guess it's more "in the eyes of the beholder".
why isnt gengar anywhere on this thread?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sixth-generation-pokemon-analyses-index.3494918/
should his analysis have been done considering he is such a used pokemon?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sixth-generation-pokemon-analyses-index.3494918/
should his analysis have been done considering he is such a used pokemon?
I think it's still a work in progress because the mega stone got banned. I remember seeing an analysis on him prior to gengarite getting banned. There's no way he's not making OU and definitely needs a write-up.
yeah its probably not there due to gengarite getting banned. kangeskhans analysis isnt there either
If I remember correctly, I once saw Gengar on the list, but it had to have been covered by a Badge Holder (probably for experience and quality's sake). Regardless, with Gengar ranking A on the OU Viability Thread, the little guy has no signs of dropping anytime soon.
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