Pokémon Greninja

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This is the Greninja I use.

Everyone tells me Water Shuriken is a niche move, but it has been great for me, especially on raindance teams. It's priority is quite useful vs Talonflame.

Grass Knot is also great. It has a cool trick vs Smeargle where you can grass knot them, breaking their sash and also making Greninja immune to spore.

The STAB Life orb U-turn hits like a tank.

MIXED ATTACK GRENINJA
Adamant/Jolly
252 Speed, 252 Attack 4 HP
Ice Beam
Water Shuriken
U-Turn
Grass Knot

The only weak move is Ice Beam, does anyone have a better suggestion? This greninja gets walled by steels.
Life Orb and U-Turn is not the best combo for a physical Greninja from my experience, especially if hazards are on the field.
 
You know, how about we just stop talking about physical Greninja? You win, Smogon, okay? I have honestly had my fill with the negativity towards it. I honestly think the mixed and full physical sets are great. But hey, apparently no one here gives two s**ts about my opinion, or to anyone who likes it, too. And Mitchhhhhh, I swear if you reply to this... Ugh, I cant take this anymore.
 
You know, how about we just stop talking about physical Greninja? You win, Smogon, okay? I have honestly had my fill with the negativity towards it. I honestly think the mixed and full physical sets are great. But hey, apparently no one here gives two s**ts about my opinion, or to anyone who likes it, too. And Mitchhhhhh, I swear if you reply to this... Ugh, I cant take this anymore.
There's been discussion on physical Greninja for the last 9 pages straight. Its been discussed to death, but no one actually reads the thread before bringing it up, again. Regardless, each time it gets brought up, someone shows why it isn't worth it and why special is almost always better. The SOLE use of any physical move outside of U-Turn that's actually been worth it is Rock Slide for Char-Y (0 Attack Timid Protean Rock Slide OHKOs vs 252 Sp Attack, Neutral-Natured, LO, sun-weakened Hydro Pump's 58.3 - 68.7%), everything else is outdone by a special variant.

Please, nobody mention Physical Greninja again. Please go back and read some of the last 9 pages if you want to know why it isn't good.
 
You know, how about we just stop talking about physical Greninja? You win, Smogon, okay? I have honestly had my fill with the negativity towards it. I honestly think the mixed and full physical sets are great. But hey, apparently no one here gives two s**ts about my opinion, or to anyone who likes it, too. And Mitchhhhhh, I swear if you reply to this... Ugh, I cant take this anymore.
I sometimes use physical sets
 
You know, how about we just stop talking about physical Greninja? You win, Smogon, okay? I have honestly had my fill with the negativity towards it. I honestly think the mixed and full physical sets are great. But hey, apparently no one here gives two s**ts about my opinion, or to anyone who likes it, too. And Mitchhhhhh, I swear if you reply to this... Ugh, I cant take this anymore.
the reason theres so much negativity towards it is that it isnt a good set. If you want a physical water-type, use Azumarill. Pretty simple. no need to overreact.
 
You know, how about we just stop talking about physical Greninja? You win, Smogon, okay? I have honestly had my fill with the negativity towards it. I honestly think the mixed and full physical sets are great. But hey, apparently no one here gives two s**ts about my opinion, or to anyone who likes it, either. And Mitchhhhhhh, I swear if you reply to this... Ugh, I cant take this anymore.
the reason theres so much negativity towards it is that it isnt a good set. If you want a physical water-type, use Azumarill. Pretty simple. no need to overreact.
Overreact? What I am saying is overreaction? Ypu have paid attention to the people saying it is bad, right? Because(this is final, I am begging everyone to shut up about it) it is actually "decent". I will not prove anything because someone with no remorse for people's worthy opinions will make it their lifes goal to prove me wrong. Do not reply to this regarding physical Greninja being bad. I, and neither will you, enjoy the result of doing otherwise.
 
ArashiTheRainDancer
>prove
>opinion

Well, you can use whatever you want, nobody is stopping you. There is no need to be dramatic and start threats simply if other people think your cherished set is suboptimal: they have their opinions and you have your own opinion. Full agreement is rare anywhere and it's just Pokemon, mang.
 
Overreact? What I am saying is overreaction? Ypu have paid attention to the people saying it is bad, right? Because(this is final, I am begging everyone to shut up about it) it is actually "decent". I will not prove anything because someone with no remorse for people's worthy opinions will make it their lifes goal to prove me wrong. Do not reply to this regarding physical Greninja being bad. I, and neither will you, enjoy the result of doing otherwise.
Grow up. This is Smogon--a competitive battling site. We don't use things that are 'decent' or things that 'just work' because someone likes them. We use things that are viable and will get us to the higher ladders, win the SPL tournaments, and make us better at battling. Pokemon is simple math so you don't need to prove that physical Greninja works because the math already proves that it doesn't in the higher ladder (or the lower ladder). If you or anyone else wants to discuss physical Greninja, physical Sylveon, or any other shitty gimmick that you want to use solely because you like it, please go to Serebii.

This whole discussion is why people created the Victory Road thread to segregate the badged users from people who discuss things like this.
 
Ignoring the typical "your set sucks go to serebii" discussion going on in here...

Physical greninja does have it's merits and can do good things for your team if you use it right.
I would like to see more use of Shadow Sneak on a physical Greninja.

Shadow sneak against a Conkeldurr, no damage from the mach punch/drain punch. Then U-Turn out into something that resists the Knock Off.
 
The real problem with Physical greninja is that it lacks good physical moves, U-turn and shadow sneak are the best it gets and you don't use those for damage, you use them for the utility. If Greninja gets better physical moves like dunno Knock off (stab+utility+decent damage), Stone Edge or Extreme speed for example I could see Physical Greninja becoming more viable, but as it is now, it is simply outclassed by other fast physical attackers (like Garchomp) while having a really nice spot as an special attacker himself.
 
Ignoring the typical "your set sucks go to serebii" discussion going on in here...

Physical greninja does have it's merits and can do good things for your team if you use it right.
I would like to see more use of Shadow Sneak on a physical Greninja.

Shadow sneak against a Conkeldurr, no damage from the mach punch/drain punch.
What prevents them from predicting SS and use Knock Off to OHKO you instead? Oh, and SS does laughable damage to Conkeldurr so unless your opponent keeps on hitting Mach Punch / Drain Punch for some mysterious reason, you will get caught out.
 
I think the main problems with physical Greninja are both the lack of power and the fact that it's outclassed and isn't using Greninjas selling points (great special movepool, STAB everything). Plus, Greninjas physical movepool (shadow sneak, waterfall, Rock slide) is significantly weaker than his special movepool (hydro pump, ice beam). Pokemon like Crawdaunt, Sharpedo and Azumarill do the physical water type role a lot better.
ArashiTheRainDancer , maybe physical Greninja is decent, but I could never see myself using it on any successful team. I don't want to start a fight, I just want to end this and avoid further drama. You are allowed to use whatever you want.
 
I get wanting to be creative, but pushing a Physical Greninja would be like adamantly sticking to a Special Azumarill. One version is objectively better than the other, so don't get upset when you're told that.
 
If only Greninja learned Destiny Bond, it could be used as Froslass 2.0 :(
True dat, bro.

Look, I am sorry for my immaturity. I just think the physical, or even better mixed set deserves a better chance. Yes, the special set is better. I agree. Do not get the idea I am hating on it. I actually love it! It's sooo good. XD So I am not adamantly sticking to the physi set, I just... You know something? Physical Greninja may be more used the more we talk about it. Maybe it IS best if we stop discussing it. Anyway...

Sorry for the fuss. No hard feelings, m8's! I hope you don't hate my guts or anything like that. :b
 
I think that scald would be a better option over surf because of burn chance.
So you're saying its either Hydro Pump or Scald? I found scald to be of not much use since you don't really want to be in against strong physical attackers due to Greninja being so frail.
 
So you're saying its either Hydro Pump or Scald? I found scald to be of not much use since you don't really want to be in against strong physical attackers due to Greninja being so frail.
Scald's spamability is largely dependent on what switches in, it eases prediction because if you leave a check crippled, it paves the way for a more effective sweep later on. Unless you're picking off something water weak, you wouldn't keep Greninja in specifically to scald and pray for a burn.

Hydro Pump has better power, but still not enough to OHKO Specially Defensive Heatran, and the kills are hit or miss (literally) on the rest of your targets. Having a base 110 attack on a moveset full of 60 and 80 BP moves is helpful in practice; Hydro Pump spamming would take place on the switch, much like Scald.
 
Is it still worth running U-Turn with a Timid nature, or is it better to just go Hasty/Naive and call it a day?
Timid U-turn is fine since it is only there for providing momentum, though I personally prefer running Hasty since I like power behind my U-turns and Greninja isn't living much anyway. You can pretty much do whatever you want.
 
I might get my Hasty 31/31/30/30/31/31 HP Grass Froakie hatched soon.

I was wondering if I can get an idea of what HP Grass hits harder than Grass Knot(is there a list somewhere?) One of the main reasons why I bred for it is Rotom-W as it can 2HKO most if not all variants which none of its other moves can do. Was also wondering other than U-Turn as of course I'm running Hasty so have to have a physical move somewhere, what would be a good choice for the other 3 moves? Havent tried specially oriented mixed Greninja(I like Physical or Physically leaned mixed more for some reason) much and want to give HP Grass a try on it.
 
These are some of Grass Knot's Base Powers against some of the most common Grass-weak Pokemon in OU.
Rotom-W : 60
Gastrodon:60
Cloyster: 100
Keldeo: 60
Vaporeon: 60
Gyarados: 120
Jellicent:100
Hippowdon: 120
Azumarill: 60
Tyranitar: 120
Suicune: 80
Quagsire: 80
 
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