Hardest Relative NPC

[adman2]

Gardenia: Not THAT bad (I have literally soloed with a Budew before, or at least beat her Roserade with it). Still though, Reflect up with Roserade out is kinda ew.

I had to fight (Pearl) Gardenia with a solo Budew because of that stupid Friendship evolution requirement. Mega Drain, Growth, and Poison Point are essential to getting through the pre-Roselia phase. At least Roselia can get Shadow Ball to fight Fantina in Pearl.


Sounds like the Gym Leaders have more appropriate teams in Platinum. In my Pearl playthroughs, I wondered why Candice had a Medicham and Volkner had an Ambipom.

 

[Scorpio]

Sounds like the Gym Leaders have more appropriate teams in Platinum. In my Pearl playthroughs, I wondered why Candice had a Medicham and Volkner had an Ambipom.

Cuz DP's dex had a severe typing imbalance, so GF had to shoehorn Pokemon tangentially related to certain typings, something Platinum fixed.

 

[Detective Barricade]

Love reading posts like these. Sure, a lot of the Gyms are super easy, but a lot of them, particularly in Gen 4, are actually hard. Let's look at Sinnoh, specifically Platinum:
Roark: Headbutt off Attack equal to Gyrados (125) isn't fun so early in the game, plus flinch chance. Not hard, but nowhere near Brock easy (tho harder than Roxanne too)
Gardenia: Not THAT bad (I have literally soloed with a Budew before, or at least beat her Roserade with it). Still though, Reflect up with Roserade out is kinda ew.
Fantina: This is just awful. Makes your shiny new EQ TM useless, and Mismagius's 105 Special Attack Shadow Ball should not be a thing so early on in the game. While there are a few counters (Luxio/Luxray, Floatzel with Crunch, Vespiquen with Toxic) and you can kinda brute force it, it hits so many things super-effectively. Duskull with Will-o-Wisp also screws over a few of those.
Maylene: A breather boss to an extent. Her mons can take a hit but there are loads more counters to her than the last couple of Gyms.
Wake: Odds are if you go in blind you will get wrecked. Waterfall Gyrados? Ice Fang Floatzel? I mean Quagsire is easy but it has good type synergy and all. Bottom line, really good team, and Waterfall Gyrados is enough of a challenge alone.
Byron: LOL, nice break, though not braindead easy. Every starter kinda laughs at him (tho Torterra has to watch out for Steelix Ice Fang and Empoleon has to watch out for Magneton).
Candice: Surprisingly tough. Snow Cloak Double Team Froslass is scary, and the rest of her team has good coverage.
Volkner: Not too bad, mostly because most of his team is easily walled by any decent Ground type (watch out for Luxray Ice Fang though)

All of the E4 are rough because their coverage is insane. Galactic is also a threat early on with Purugly and Skunktank, and Cyrus 3 is incredibly hard. In general, the game is one of the hardest games, but for the right reasons (unlike HGSS).

Platinum Fantina is just ugh. Her Mismagius has Confuse Ray to punish Pokemon with higher Attack that could otherwise chew through its paltry Defense and HP, Shadow Ball for STAB AND a chance to lower Special Defense, though thankfully Psybeam and Magical Leaf aren't so bad. (unless your Special Defense has been dropped) Oh, and the thing has a Sitrus Berry just in case you were feeling hopeful.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

Platinum Fantina is just ugh. Her Mismagius has Confuse Ray to punish Pokemon with higher Attack that could otherwise chew through its paltry Defense and HP, Shadow Ball for STAB AND a chance to lower Special Defense, though thankfully Psybeam and Magical Leaf aren't so bad. (unless your Special Defense has been dropped) Oh, and the thing has a Sitrus Berry just in case you were feeling hopeful.

Looked through Platinum dex out of curiosity.
Of the mons you can have at that point, not many are save from its moves. Every starter save Grotle is hit super-effectively (even then that only has 75 HP and 65 Special Defense). Abra line is owned by Shadow Ball. Budew line is owned by Psybeam, as is Crobat (yeah you can outspeed and flinch with Bite but that's super shaky) and Heracross. Golem, Onix (not Steelix if you have Metal Coat), Shellos, Buizel line, Crainidos line, Psyduck line and Bibarel are owned by Magical Leaf. Gengar is ripped apart by Shadow Ball which IT likely won't have yet, as is Driftblim and Chingling. Everything else either hates Confuse Ray or can maybe only take ONE Shadow Ball or Psybeam and then die.

So yeah Fantina is hard for the wrong reasons, unlike the Totems.

 

[Miss Cottonee]

Platinum Fantina is just ugh. Her Mismagius has Confuse Ray to punish Pokemon with higher Attack that could otherwise chew through its paltry Defense and HP, Shadow Ball for STAB AND a chance to lower Special Defense, though thankfully Psybeam and Magical Leaf aren't so bad. (unless your Special Defense has been dropped) Oh, and the thing has a Sitrus Berry just in case you were feeling hopeful.

Haha, that's a typical feature of all "key" Pokémon in gen 4: the Sitrus Berry! It feels particularly rewarding to Pluck it. :)

I'm not even sure how I beat Fantina in Platinum (I've only played it two times I think, unlike Pearl). I remember she was a Gym leader to be prepared for, especially because she moved to the third spot. Mismagius is indeed difficult to deal with at that point. Looking at a recent team, I'd probably just used Luxio with Bite or I Calm Minded endlessly with Gardevoir to take it out. Anyway, it requires some team work (or more than one Pokémon) to take it down, and it probably never is an easy battle indeed.

All of the E4 are rough because their coverage is insane. Galactic is also a threat early on with Purugly and Skunktank, and Cyrus 3 is incredibly hard. In general, the game is one of the hardest games, but for the right reasons (unlike HGSS).

Almost forgot about those! I disliked Purugly and Skuntank so much back then, the early fights remind me of those Hyper Fang Raticates back in RBY. If Cyrus 3 is the battle in the Distortion World: I totally agree. The equivalent at the Spear Pillar in DP is tough already, but dang, it's even more of a challenge with the addition of Houndoom...

 

[DrumstickGaming]

This time around it is a Trainer Class, NOT a specific NPC, but OH MAN do I hate them. And it's not what'd you probably THINK would be hard mooks, like you would Ace Trainers or Veterans.

It's the freaking Researchers in the Shadow Pokemon Lab / Cipher Lab in Colosseum. Those guys with primarily Magnemite / Magneton and Voltorb / Electrode. Who spam Thunder and occasionally explode.

Lemme give some background for you. It is at this point the game is transitioning from midgame to lategame, this being the penultimate dungeon before the Cipher Admin rematches in Realgam Tower one area later. You'd think by now "oh, I should have some good options to combat Electric types now, right?" The answer is NO.

You have like...three options for Ground types before this, with the only other one, Vibrava, being at the tail end of the lab with two fights after it. The other three are Quagsire, who gets Earthquake at level 42 and should be JUST getting the move around now (and is thus the best option), Gligar, who literally has no natural Ground STAB, and Piloswine, who if you use a Time Flute on gets Dig instantly. Piloswine Dig sounds good until you realize that means your teammate is taking more Thunder spam unless you opt for Protect, which is iffy for some mons because A) the move relearner doesn't exist in Colosseum, so moveslots are really valuable, B) Protect isn't really commonly good until Realgam Tower rematches where you might get some Earthquake spam off and C) that means the matches drag even if you have a Ground type. So, to recap, the game gives you ONE good option, one mediocre option, one awful option and one option after the Researcher spam ends.

You have to go through FIVE of these annoying jerks to get through here, with an extra sixth with some jokes like Electrike and Chinchou randomly thrown in without Thunder, instead packing...Shock Wave and Thundershock? And one guy randomly seems to use two Spark Electrode with Explosion too. Either way, Thunder spam may not sound all that bad with the lame accuracy, but the law of averages WILL add up and most non-resists or mons not named Altaria will be easily 2HKOed by Thunder in the low 40s.

And to top it off, the BOSS of the place uses Rain Dance and Thunder, because you aren't sick of seeing THAT move yet. Your mons are gonna be dropping like flies throughout the dungeon, and as a final screw you, you get the TM for Earthquake RIGHT AFTER YOU BEAT EIN.

It's just one move, but you'd be surprised how obnoxious it can be. And remember, there's NO HEALING MACHINE in this place, so unless you like tediously switching via the PC near the start, have fun constantly leaving to heal up unless you spam Revives.

And yes, this could fit in the "little things that annoy you thread," but honestly the Researchers are the focus and they are the WORST.

Edit:That alarm guy uses Rain Dance Thunder, and Ein literally hit every Thunder even without Rain Dance, ughhh.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

Not sure if it's been mentioned (search function tells me it hasn't been) but one more difficult NPC is Teacher Emily from USUM.

For those who do not know who that is, in USUM, you have to go through Trainer's School first and battle some students. After beating all of them, you will be called in the school and will have to fight Teacher Emily. Her team consists only of one Pokemon, which is always the starter that is weak type-wise stronger than yours (e.g. if you picked Rowlet, she has a Litten). However, if you thought she's bad like a rival and lets you win, then you got it wrong. Her starter always spams super effective moves on you. While she isn't hard if you pick up some teammates that can deal with her starter (Wingull for her Litten, Magnemite for Rowlet and Popplio, and any Flying or Grimer for Rowlet), she certainly forces you to go out of your way simply to beat an NPC and is a big "surprise" to someone that doesn't know what's in the game and thought they'd be using only one Pokemon for majority of the time.

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

there's a trainer fairly on in oras (and i assume rse?), whom i believe to be called rich kid winston (please correct me if this is wrong), who uses a full restore on his pokemon. he's not exactly an impenetrable wall, but it adds a layer of difficulty to what would otherwise be a fairly generic route battle.

 

[Jerry the great]

There was these 2 ace trainers right before veilstone city... And my god they're strong, I'd say that kind of difficulty fits for a boss not random trainers. I cannot remember too much about them other than having a dangerous gyarados and monferno, but they were scary.

That one rocket grunt in Mt.Moon with the raticate was deadly. That thing on it's own can sweep whole teams. It's level 16 and knows hyper fang... In an area where the last boss had a level 12 geodude with defense curl or whatever it was and tackle, and a level 14 onix with tackle, screech, bide, and one other move I think. Yeah, that Raticate over levels you by a little bit and that hyper fang is scary. If it weren't for the fact the AI goes for completely random moves, there's no way you'd beat him without an evolved starter, Geodude with many potions, or coming back after you're stronger. Thank god he's optimal though.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

there's a trainer fairly on in oras (and i assume rse?), whom i believe to be called rich kid winston (please correct me if this is wrong), who uses a full restore on his pokemon. he's not exactly an impenetrable wall, but it adds a layer of difficulty to what would otherwise be a fairly generic route battle.

I wouldn't so much call this a "layer of difficulty" than I would a "joke at Winston's expense". When you fight fight him, his Zigzagoon is level 8 (7 in RSE). That means it has between 24 and 31 HP. I doubt it has EVs or perfect IVs, so let's say it's around 25. Now consider that a regular potion heals 20 HP. Rich Boy Winston is so obscenely rich that he's dropping Full Restores on a Zigzagoon. He's basically doing the healing equivalent of catching a Caterpie in a Master Ball.

Even if you consider the rematches, the highest his Linoone's HP could ever theoretically reach across all versions is 118, well within hyper potion range.

 

[Molk]

There was these 2 ace trainers right before veilstone city... And my god they're strong, I'd say that kind of difficulty fits for a boss not random trainers. I cannot remember too much about them other than having a dangerous gyarados and monferno, but they were scary.

That one rocket grunt in Mt.Moon with the raticate was deadly. That thing on it's own can sweep whole teams. It's level 16 and knows hyper fang... In an area where the last boss had a level 12 geodude with defense curl or whatever it was and tackle, and a level 14 onix with tackle, screech, bide, and one other move I think. Yeah, that Raticate over levels you by a little bit and that hyper fang is scary. If it weren't for the fact the AI goes for completely random moves, there's no way you'd beat him without an evolved starter, Geodude with many potions, or coming back after you're stronger. Thank god he's optimal though.

I think it's worth mentioning that this Raticate is only in Pokemon Red/Blue and that in both Yellow and the remakes you don't have to deal with him. He was so strong that Gamefreak legit nerfed him/removed him from the game (not sure which) for the sake of balance lol.

There's actually one other situation where i can remember a trainer being nerfed between games in a generation. Cooltrainer Jennifer in RS comes packing a single level 31 Milotic with iirc Water Pulse and Recover on route 120, a route where it's often going to be raining, thus boosting the power of her Milotic's Water moves. They replaced her Milotic with a Sableye in Emerald, quite possibly because she was considered way too strong for a route trainer imo.

 

[Yung Dramps]

There's actually one other situation where i can remember a trainer being nerfed between games in a generation. Cooltrainer Jennifer in RS comes packing a single level 31 Milotic with iirc Water Pulse and Recover on route 120, a route where it's often going to be raining, thus boosting the power of her Milotic's Water moves. They replaced her Milotic with a Sableye in Emerald, quite possibly because she was considered way too strong for a route trainer imo.

I actually think I know what trainer you're talking about! Here's a fun fact: Unlike the Raticate Rocket grunt, Jennifer's Milotic returns in ORAS! In that game, in fact, it gets a 5 level buff, now edging out Winona's Altaria by 1 level! And since you can partially access Route 120 before beating her you could feasably fight Jennifer before Winona if my memory serves me well.

 

[Pikachu315111]

there's a trainer fairly on in oras (and i assume rse?), whom i believe to be called rich kid winston (please correct me if this is wrong), who uses a full restore on his pokemon.

I wouldn't so much call this a "layer of difficulty" than I would a "joke at Winston's expense". When you fight fight him, his Zigzagoon is level 8 (7 in RSE). That means it has between 24 and 31 HP. I doubt it has EVs or perfect IVs, so let's say it's around 25. Now consider that a regular potion heals 20 HP. Rich Boy Winston is so obscenely rich that he's dropping Full Restores on a Zigzagoon. He's basically doing the healing equivalent of catching a Caterpie in a Master Ball.

Even if you consider the rematches, the highest his Linoone's HP could ever theoretically reach across all versions is 118, well within hyper potion range.

There's also a Lady (Cindy) on the same Route (104) and she too has a Zigzagoon which she'll use an entire Full Restore on (and can be rematched where she only has a Linoone.

Oh, BTW, in RSE both of their Zigzagoon are holding an item: A Nugget which literally does nothing (though I suppose it could also hint their Pokemon got it via Pickup)!

There was these 2 ace trainers right before veilstone city... And my god they're strong, I'd say that kind of difficulty fits for a boss not random trainers. I cannot remember too much about them other than having a dangerous gyarados and monferno, but they were scary.

Ace Trainer Dennis & Ace Trainer Maya. Specifically their Diamond & Pearl versions, Platinum gave them different teams. Dennis has the Monferno and Gyarados, but don't count Maya out as she has a Kadabra that could definitely throw you for a look.

There's actually one other situation where i can remember a trainer being nerfed between games in a generation. Cooltrainer Jennifer in RS comes packing a single level 31 Milotic with iirc Water Pulse and Recover on route 120, a route where it's often going to be raining, thus boosting the power of her Milotic's Water moves. They replaced her Milotic with a Sableye in Emerald, quite possibly because she was considered way too strong for a route trainer imo.

Here's a fun fact: Unlike the Raticate Rocket grunt, Jennifer's Milotic returns in ORAS!

Jennifer... I remember her. My first playthrough on Sapphire I almost lost to her. The only Pokemon I remember having was Blaziken and Wobbuffet. She knocked out my Blaziken leaving me in a tough spot as that was my most powerful team member. I eventually had to use Wobbuffet to Destiny Bond her Milotic.

Years later I would get AlphaSapphire and, since I played through the original with Blaziken I decided to try something different. Now at the time I picked Treecko as I was going to face Team Aqua... but when I got closer to that route I remember her and that day I got my revenge, yes I did. I HOPED YOUR MILOTIC LIKED MY MEGA SCEPTILE'S GIGA DRAIN YOU B**** (why yes, I didn't evolve my Treecko until it learned Giga Drain)!

 

[Molk]

So another thing i'd like to mention is trainer rematches. Of course all of these fights are going to be optional by default, but i know for a fact that some rematchable trainers get some very strong teams that are definitely worth checking out!

Two examples of some strong trainer rematches i can think of are Veteran Brian in Pokemon Platinum, whos final team consists of a FWG core of Tangroth/Floatzel/Rapidash all at level 60, and Ace Trainers Brooke and Wilton in ORAS who throughout their various rematches have a competent team at around (just under) the levels of the last gym leader you beat (for example after beating Wallace Wilton's team is Manectric/Fraxure/Wailord/Hariyama all at level 43). By the time you beat Steven they both have a team of 5 fully evolved Pokemon in the early 50s, which isn't quite as strong as Steven, but about on par with the first two members of the elite four.

Does anyone else know any notably strong trainers on rematches? If so let me know, i find them very interesting.

Now if only we could rematch Veteran Shaun...

 

[lucariomaster2]

Not the *hardest* battle, but I'll second the above shoutout to Ace Trainers Maya and Dennis, who fight you in a double battle immediately before Veilstone City. They each have 3 Pokemon in Platinum, and you're likely to be weakened by all of the previous trainers on the route. It's also raining in the overworld, which makes Gyarados (DP) and Buizel (Pt) quite a bit more threatening.

On the flipside, once you hit postgame they're among the better trainers for Vs. Seeker EXP grinding...

 

[BIG ASHLEY]

I wouldn't so much call this a "layer of difficulty" than I would a "joke at Winston's expense". When you fight fight him, his Zigzagoon is level 8 (7 in RSE). That means it has between 24 and 31 HP. I doubt it has EVs or perfect IVs, so let's say it's around 25. Now consider that a regular potion heals 20 HP. Rich Boy Winston is so obscenely rich that he's dropping Full Restores on a Zigzagoon. He's basically doing the healing equivalent of catching a Caterpie in a Master Ball.

Even if you consider the rematches, the highest his Linoone's HP could ever theoretically reach across all versions is 118, well within hyper potion range.

oh yea, it's definitely something of a joke - it's more the fact that he uses a healing item at all. he's not exactly cynthia, though.

 

[PsychicAcademic]

No one has talked totems yet?

Ok then, Totem Togedemaru.
Now, if you have ground type, it'll be very easy. But not everyone likes Mudsdale, and I can't be bothered to find Flygon in that desert. So to them....

Nightmare. Elec/Steel has rooms for exploit, but this thing gets bounce and Skarmdog ally for Fighting and Grass. Zing Zap Flinch hax isn't fun either. Going Fire would be the way, except I don't recall Fire types that can outspeed them well (unless you got Salazzle after extra effort of getting that female newt) and not fall to electrics (lol no Talonflame), not to mention Skarm got Tailwind anyway.

... totem is about knowing which SOS ally is least threat, I suppose. I let that Skarm set up on me, thinking I can OHKO it with Raichu. I didn't think this through, Raichu can't do anything against that ball rat in this unfair 1v2 situation and no one else I had could readily OHKO that Skarm.
Lilligant dead to bounce and Skarm, Primarina dead to elecs, Arcanine couldn't outspeed, Pangoro failed to hit anything....

On hindsight having Bewear with Fluffy would also help, but I hated it and it still is matter of RNG roulette of not stopping by paraflinch hax.

This thing actually got me on my last Pokémon. A first time that while there are other difficult fights, I wasn't as unprepared as when facing this evil ball rat.

EDIT: wait, I am mixing it with Vikavolt in vanilla SuMn? Then it must be worse as I did have HP Fire Roserade and Drill Run DuskRoc in egg run as opposed to my ragtag team in Moon.

 

[Ryota Mitarai]

No one has talked totems yet?

Ok then, SuMn Totem Togedemaru.
Now, if you have ground type, it'll be very easy. But not everyone likes Mudsdale, and I can't be bothered to find Flygon in that desert. So to them....

Nightmare. Elec/Steel has rooms for exploit, but this thing gets bounce and Skarmdog ally for Fighting and Grass. Zing Zap Flinch hax isn't fun either. Going Fire would be the way, except I don't recall Fire types that can outspeed them well (unless you got Salazzle after extra effort of getting that female newt) and not fall to electrics (lol no Talonflame), not to mention Skarm got Tailwind anyway.

... totem is about knowing which SOS ally is least threat, I suppose. I let that Skarm set up on me, thinking I can OHKO it with Raichu. I didn't think this through, Raichu can't do anything against that ball rat in this unfair 1v2 situation and no one else I had could readily OHKO that Skarm.
Lilligant dead to bounce and Skarm, Primarina dead to elecs, Arcanine couldn't outspeed, Pangoro failed to hit anything....

On hindsight having Bewear with Fluffy would also help, but I hated it and it still is matter of RNG roulette of not stopping by paraflinch hax.

This thing actually got me on my last Pokémon. A first time that while there are other difficult fights, I wasn't as unprepared as when facing this evil ball rat.

Actually, Totem Togedemaru's Skarmory isn't that dangerous. Sure, it sets up SR, Torment, and Tailwind, but it has only Steel Wing to attack. The real dangerous ally is, funnily, Dedenne. This thing has Charm and makes every physical attacker terrible against Togedemaru, which already has +2 Defense. Not to mention, it has Super Fang, meaning outstalling Togedemaru is pretty much not an option. Discharge also has a 30% chance to paralyze you, so yeah, you see how annoying Dedenne is. I never KO Skarmory until I am done with Togedemaru, because I definitely do not want to have Dedenne help it, given that majority of the available Pokemon is physical attackers.

Also, small correction:

and I can't be bothered to find Flygon in that desert

Haina Desert is post-Mimikyu so you can't have a Flygon anyways. Or a Trapinch on first place.

 

[Codraroll]

Another correction, Togedemaru is only there in USUM.

But yeah, this battle has a very interesting trap situation, where you can get stuck in a Torment/Bounce cycle where you can't ever get off that one attack that could smash through the totem. Add paraflinch on top of that, and the battle becomes a special kind of hellish.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Yeah, I heard Togedemaru was hard though I can't really remember how I got past it, I think I might have just nuked it with an Inferno Overdrive from Salazzle using Flame Burst which would have made it 140 Power.

 

[PsychicAcademic]

When I see it again, I realised totems are mostly about murdering them fast before they become too lethal to handle (unless we talk about Kommo vs Primarina level of advantage, that Roseli didn't help him survive).

I forgot how I led against Togedemaru, but it must've involved me failing to KO it in 2 turns (iirc, probably leading with roc expecting to KO it fast but it somehow didn't due to that +2 Def and roc's utter scrap Atk IV).
On the other times, I heard of people having difficulty with Totem Ribombee while my roc just nuked it with its Z-move as it set up at turn 1. Similarly I think I passed Lurantis by going straight at it. This also means Mimikyu WILL be pain as disguise ensures you can't OHKO it and it WILL have an ally to make you cry.

 

[Pikachu315111]

On the other times, I heard of people having difficulty with Totem Ribombee while my roc just nuked it with its Z-move as it set up at turn 1. Similarly I think I passed Lurantis by going straight at it. This also means Mimikyu WILL be pain as disguise ensures you can't OHKO it and it WILL have an ally to make you cry.

I found that it might be best to save your Z-Move for the second turn as the Totem Pokemon REALLY wants to SOS a partner first chance it gets. Some will use Protect and there's cases like Mimikyu where you should break its Disguise before blasting it.

 

[Darvin]

Yeah, I heard Togedemaru was hard though I can't really remember how I got past it, I think I might have just nuked it with an Inferno Overdrive from Salazzle using Flame Burst which would have made it 140 Power.

I was totally unprepared for Togedemaru in Ultra Moon since I was playing blind and expecting Vikavolt, and thanks to my challenge rules my options were very limited (I could only bring one pokemon to a totem fight, and it couldn't be higher level than the totem pokemon). I ended up beating it with a Volt Absorb Lanturn with Rest. PP stalled the sucker out. I don't think it was the hardest fight I had in Ultra Moon, but it sure was the most memorable!

 

[Molk]

So i've been playing through pokemon Blue and i just realized.

Has anyone had trouble with that kid north of Vermillion city with the level 20 Butterfree? He's at the point of the game where Butterfree's stats are still high compared to the other Pokemon you'll be seeing and Butterfree's status moves can be annoying. I was able to pretty much completely shut him down with my own Butterfree but it still took quite a few hits.

I'm ngl i always get spooked when i fight that one bug catcher lol.

 

[DrumstickGaming]

So i've been playing through pokemon Blue and i just realized.

Has anyone had trouble with that kid north of Vermillion city with the level 20 Butterfree? He's at the point of the game where Butterfree's stats are still high compared to the other Pokemon you'll be seeing and Butterfree's status moves can be annoying. I was able to pretty much completely shut him down with my own Butterfree but it still took quite a few hits.

I'm ngl i always get spooked when i fight that one bug catcher lol.

I'm honestly surprised you didn't mention the Rocket Grunt with the Raticate in Mt. Moon first. Unlike that Butterfree, Raticate has Hyper Fang which nothing bar Geodude resists at this point, and considering Geodude doesn't get Rock Throw until level 16 in RBY, you probably aren't fainting that rat fast. It's notable that literally both remakes nerfed him and gave him unevolved mons instead.

Yes, both Butterfree and Raticate have been mentioned before, but I'd thought I'd chime in anyway.