Considering that it has Unburden and his only viable Flying attack is Acrobatics, i guess they are still viable on Hawlucha.
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Pokémon Hawlucha
- Thread starter Molk
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Until Flying Gem get's released (which is still probably his best option even with the gem nerf, I don't think it's that bad), the most reliable way of getting the unburden boost has been using Sky attack with power herb. It unfortunately takes up a move slot though, but it's better than relying on focus sash or subbing multiple times to get to half health and activating a Sitrus Berry and having a weak acrobatics until then.
This is ridiculous. Rotom-W can't switch into Hawlucha. High Jump Kick is a clean, easy 2HKO without boosts of any kind, and without an item. If you manage to come in on an unboosted Acrobatics, sure, you can force it out, but anything else and you're toast. Talonflame can't switch into Acrobatics either, and takes 40% from High Jump Kick. If you're playing it as a counter to Hawlucha you're really, really using it the wrong way.
So... is it just me, or does it seem Hawlucha was made for Power Herb abuse?
It learns Sky Attack, Sky Drop, Bounce, Fly, Dig.... these are all moves that trigger the Power Herb, and therefore Unburden. Only one of them is really viable competitively, but Bounce and Dig seem like they may be interesting gimmicks.
Dig especially so, since being Flying-type, he's immune to the otherwise doubled-damage that could be caused from EQ (not that anyone would bother), but it's SE against anything that resists Acrobatics, (electric, rock, steel) while Acrobatics is SE against the things that resist Dig (bug, grass), and Stone Edge takes care of the one type that's outright immune.
It learns Sky Attack, Sky Drop, Bounce, Fly, Dig.... these are all moves that trigger the Power Herb, and therefore Unburden. Only one of them is really viable competitively, but Bounce and Dig seem like they may be interesting gimmicks.
Dig especially so, since being Flying-type, he's immune to the otherwise doubled-damage that could be caused from EQ (not that anyone would bother), but it's SE against anything that resists Acrobatics, (electric, rock, steel) while Acrobatics is SE against the things that resist Dig (bug, grass), and Stone Edge takes care of the one type that's outright immune.
Although flying gem pops into my mind first when considering activating Unburden, I am interested in seeing what P herb yields. Def a good for surprise factor, but after the initial move, your stuck with two charge up moves, giving plenty of time for the opponent to switch into a flying/levitator or something that easily resists and sets up.
Unless you only plan on carrying one charge move. If so, having to choose between sky attack and dig is a bit of a let down, knowing you dedicated an item slot to it
Unless you only plan on carrying one charge move. If so, having to choose between sky attack and dig is a bit of a let down, knowing you dedicated an item slot to it
The (oft-repeated) problem with the power herb strategy is that you then can't have Sword Dance plus Encore. I find Encore a hell of a useful move. My general strategy is to lead with Red Card Hawlucha, SD her straight off and then if the opponent hasn't used an attack to trigger the Red Card (and if I am faster than the other lead), Encore the opponent to give me a free move or free further set up.
Rotom w can come in after a pokemon faints, in which it's not ko'ed before it get's off thunderbolt. also, talonflame is faster that hawlucha due to higher speed and priority, meaning unless OHKO'ed, Hawlucha be OHKO'ed by acrobatics or bravebird.
What if Hawlucha has already unburdened and SD'd itself? Is it then a OHKO?
What EVs are you running on this? Personally gonna use Hawlucha for the special season, so since he's outsped by few, I'm thinking full HP/Attack for mine.
252 Atk, mix of HP, Sp Def, Def and Spd on the rest, and I can't remember exactly what I went for (and can't check right now). Pretty sure it was 72/72/64/48.
Still not convinced I have that EV spread right (and I'm not above white-bagging it and starting again), because I haven't done the key calcs. But it's not far off being right -- she gets OHKO'd by very few leads I have come across so far, and OHKOs are predictable enough for an easy switch to something more favourable. Once she has been hit, she's faster than anything she's facing. And without the hit, she's fast enough that she almost always outspeeds a non-attacking lead, allowing her to encore and set up mercilessly.
It's also early days, and I haven't bred my Hawlucha with any particular IVs (not even checked them, actually), which means she is certainly still sub-optimal. Here's her level 100 stats though, for those who are capable of reverse-engineering the IVs:
HP: 295
Atk: 265
Def: 181
Sp Atk: 169
Sp Def: 165
Spd: 264
HP: 295
Atk: 265
Def: 181
Sp Atk: 169
Sp Def: 165
Spd: 264
I'm not sure, I'll look into it though. the speed doesn't matter though because it naturally outspeeds rotom-w. you're tactic sound really useful so I might try that. at +2 attack attack and speed, it's only defeated by priority ice shard and talonflames priority acrobatics. I'll try having the attacks SD, acrobatics, high jump kick and sub/encore, not sure which. encore would help if they don't attack like you said, but sub helps it survive talonflame.
So Rotom W can only force a switch when Hawlucha has killed without SDing (and let's face it, this isn't often), and Talonflame can KO itself from Brave Bird recoil after eating Acrobatics on the switch OR it can force a switch at the expense of 70% of its HP.
And yes, if Hawlucha has a +2 then High Jump Kick is an OHKO on Rotom W.
Well yeah, but a lot of pokemon aren't allowed ALL of the crazy options they can have. Every pokemon deals with limits to their strategies.
that seems pretty good, although would be tough to sweep with an opponents talonflame. (What I mean by this is that sweeping allows for the opponent to not need to switch in, forcing hawlucha out and making it lose the +2)but if it doesn't have to deal with a talonflame on the switch, then it should have a long nice easy sweep. oh, and aigl
Im starting to love Hawlucha, the only problem is Talonflame... Hawlucha has a lot of speed, so Adamant its ok for it, after you hit harder with Acrobatics+F.Gem it becomes even more fast, but again... Talonflame is always there to stop Hawlucha, so it´s obvious to run a counter for Talonflame if you are using Hawlucha.
This is what im running at Showdown:
Hawlucha Adamant 6hp-252atk-252speed Unburden/Flying Gem
HiJumpKick
Acrobatics
U-Turn
StoneEdge/SwordDance/Encore ---->StoneEdge seems alright for all the Charizards, Gyarados and with some luck to hit Talonflame.
This is what im running at Showdown:
Hawlucha Adamant 6hp-252atk-252speed Unburden/Flying Gem
HiJumpKick
Acrobatics
U-Turn
StoneEdge/SwordDance/Encore ---->StoneEdge seems alright for all the Charizards, Gyarados and with some luck to hit Talonflame.
On PO (my simulator of preference), the item, Flying Gem is banned because it is currently unobtainable. Therefore to cope, I've come up with this inferior(?) but usable set for Hawlucha.
Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Power-Up Punch
- Sky Attack
- Hi Jump Kick / Flying Press
- Baton Pass / Encore
Hopefully Flying Gem will be legalized soon and be distributed in-game.
Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant or Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance / Power-Up Punch
- Sky Attack
- Hi Jump Kick / Flying Press
- Baton Pass / Encore
Hopefully Flying Gem will be legalized soon and be distributed in-game.
I'll have to try out power herb, it's looked interesting but I've never gotten around to trying it. that sky attack would be a pain after the power herb is gone though.
The only thing bad about Hawlucha is that he gets Mauled by Talon and Walled by Aegis. Not bulky enough to take 2xStabBraveBird not strong enough to take out Aegislash.
IDK if anyone else has mentioned it but Hawlucha has made for a pretty damn good MegaKhan check. It won't be switching into the first move because of Fake Out, but even if it does, I doubt a Sucker Punch will kill it after words. The only thing Lucha fears is Return of Double-Edge for the most part.
Jolly 252 Att HJK does a max of 95% to max HP MKang and if you switch in on PuP, +2 Adamant Sucker Punch can finish you off.
AKA an absurd spread that no one runs. Let me show you the calcs for max hp/max attack (lol) now:
252 Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 22-26 (9.09 - 10.77%)
+1 252 Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 20-24 (6.73 - 8.08%)
+2 252 Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 107-127 (36.02 - 42.76%)
+2 252 Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 53-63 (17.84 - 21.21%)
That's at most nearly 83% done to Hawlucha. From my personal experience, most of the time I see Khan switch in is when I have my MegaGengar out so PuP is out of the question along with a normal-type move because if the MegaKhan user mispredicts, it'll have to eat a Focus Blast. Now if Khan is running max speed/hp, here are those calcs.
0 Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 22-26 (7.4 - 8.75%)
+1 0 Atk Kangaskhan (Move 1) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 16-19 (5.38 - 6.39%)
+2 0 Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 88-104 (29.62 - 35.01%)
+2 0 Atk Kangaskhan Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 44-52 (14.81 - 17.5%)
67.65% max. Hawlucha is a pretty damn good offensive check to MegaKhan. I rest my case.
Are you saying that max speed/HP is the the most common EV spread for MKhan? This post makes no sense, there is no physical sweeper in the world that is going to run 0 Att EVs. You're also basing your prediction on MKhan always switching in on your MGengar, which is a questionable decision for that MKhan user anyway since there are multiple MGeng sets that check him.
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I've been playing Hawlucha extensively, and I've never had any trouble with Talonflame or Aegislash. Talonflames are only really threatening if they come in after a KO, because they simply are too afraid of Acrobatics and even HJK to risk switching in. Aegislash, to be blunt, isn't threatening at all. It has nothing to stop a Hawlucha BP, which is frankly what Hawlucha does when it's at its most threatening.
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