Hidden Type

[Ghoul King]

I'll make a list on what I've seen on the ladder, what I've used myself and what I think is viable/useful

S rank​

• View attachment 37924 I've only seen Keldeo with ground, mainly because Keldo doesn't see a lot of usage in Hidden type. But Ground is nice and all, though it's Quad weak to Grass Knot. It checks Thundurus which is nice
  
• View attachment 37925 Metagross uses mainly Flying and Dark, as they directly benefit him instead of adding Stab coverage moves. Dark for Stab Pursuit and Neutral to Dark and ghost, while flying means you're immune to Ground and can nicely check Dragonite if it lacks Fire punch
  
• View attachment 37926 I guess Sableye runs Steel and Poison, I haven't seen a lot of discussion about him on the forum which would be nice. I've only seen Steel and Poison since they give him a handful of resistances

Keldeo, Metagross, and Sableye are most certainly not S rank. Keldeo is OK but loses a lot of value between Ghost Chansey being a reliable block to it, unlike in Standard, and between its typing and movepool it really doesn't have any particularly amazing adds. (I've seen Grass Keldeo, which I honestly think is probably superior to Ground since Flying attacks are extremely rare to find outside of Flying types, it protects against the common Ground without making the Electric weakness worse like Flying would and in fact protects against Electric and Grass... it's a solid typing, really)

I haven't seen Metagross more than once (And it wasn't even Mega Metagross), so I don't have a lot of concrete worth to add -I will note that Fighting is another option, between the Dark resistance, additional Stealth Rock resistance, and Hammer Arm STAB letting Metagross hit things pretty hard. Loses the Fairy resistance, which is unfortunate, but being neutral to Flying is not usually a big deal while Fighting being weak to Psychic is completely trivial due to the innate double resistance.

I haven't seen Mega Sableye much myself either, but it really struggles against too many of the really amazing Pokemon no matter what typing you give it -it can't really do anything about Unaware Clefable, even Will O Wisp won't help it against Fire Mega Altaria, Grass Manaphy will probably just murder it with Tail Glow Scald... the list goes on, and the fact that both its most obvious adds are vulnerable to Ground makes it predictable.

A rank

• View attachment 37927 Azumarill runs steel, fighting or dark from what I've seen. Steel gives it more resistances, mainly to steel, poison and grass. Fighting and Dark is mostly for Stab Coverage, Superpower and Knock off
  
• View attachment 37928 S rank IMO, Altaria runs Fire and Steel. They're both equally good and it all depends on your playstyle. If you're running more offensively you can run Fire giving it Stab Fire blast and Will O Wisp immunity. Steel is also nice as it gives it a stealth rock resist and more resistances I think.
  
• View attachment 37929 Bisharp runs mainly ground and ghost, which makes Bisharp a serious threat in this metagame as there's is really no way to know what it's running. Be very careful when facing Bisharp, as locking yourself into a fighting or ground move can mean it's gg
  
• View attachment 37930 There has been some discussion about this on the forums, it mainly runs Dark and Ground for stab earthquake and stab Crunch. But since the metagame is so full of Ground moves it's not A+ Material as it is in OU
  
• View attachment 37932 Clefable is deadly and unpredictable. It runs Steel and Fire typing, MG runs fire for Stab Fire blast while Unaware run steel to check a ton of the set up sweepers. Definitely good in this metagame.
  
• View attachment 37933 Gengar is great in this metagame. It has no weakness with Ghost, Dark and Poison. It's incredible deadly with unresisted coverage(I think?) and a huge move pool. I'd just advice everyone to run Dark on it, as it's so amazing. S rank imo
• View attachment 37936 Steel, fire and flying is what I've seen. Ground could also be nice but I haven't seen it in action.

I'll add more if I have time

I've also seen Dragon Azumarill, which provides a nifty set of resistances so long as you don't encounter a Freeze Dry Pokemon. (So basically Mamoswine) Azumarill probably deserves an A rank just because it's a rare example of a Pokemon that has something more than 1-2 highly viable adds -Fire is also very good on it and provides it Will O Wisp immunity. It was very popular in XY Hidden Type and I'm surprised I haven't seen people running it to check Mega Altaria -if Mega Altaria is carrying Fire Blast over Earthquake (Or Roost over a third attacking move, which I've seen) it's not got a lot it can do about Azumarill.

Jack Dalton also thinks S rank is appropriate for Mega Altaria. I don't really agree, in part because both its best adds are vulnerable to Ground and there are a number of Pokemon it doesn't have much of an answer to, such as Flying Heatran, making it a lot easier than, say, Steel Dragonite to check or counter, but A+ seems appropriate to me.

I assume you mean Flying or Ghost for Bisharp. Bisharp is good, though a lot of the things it normally murders outright are carrying typings it can't take out so easily, and ultimately I think the main thing it has over (Mega) Tyranitar is Sucker Punch, which is nothing to laugh at but Mega Tyranitar can sweep teams after a Dragon Dance or two -Bisharp still has to fear fast statusers and the like after a Swords Dance/2 Swords Dance/Defiant triggers/whatever. Defog is also oddly unpopular in Hidden Type in my experience (Making Defiant less valuable, though I've no idea why, so I'm not willing to assume that will stay true. Sticky Web is also less popular, for obvious reasons: it's not unusual for a team to be 4 non-grounded Pokemon, limiting the value. (Which is also a flaw with Flying Bisharp -no Sticky Web Defiant boost for you)

I've covered Mega Charizard X in previous posts. Somewhere in A sounds basically right to me.

Actually, Clefable often runs Water or, for reasons that mystify me, Dragon. It's been a while since I've fought a Steel Clefable, now that I think about it... a solid, important Pokemon, at any rate.

Yeah Gengar running Shadow Ball+Focus Blast is only resisted-or-better by Normal/Ghosts, and with Dark Pulse not even those. (And then Ghost Mega Lopunny comes along and laughs at you) I usually fight Electric variants myself, though I've seen the odd Steel type, I guess fishing for more resistances to keep Gengar in the fight longer. Regardless, it's not a given what it will be doing and weaker Knock Offs and Sucker Punches will often fail to KO Dark Gengar, which can turn the tide of a match. Maybe A- minus, because it's still hard to keep Gengar alive, and attempting to do so tends to create movepool problems.

I think I've seen (Mega) Diancie like once. The only thing I really have to add is that it still struggles due to its movepool problems -no Physical Fairy move and no Special Rock move, barring Hidden Power Rock which means not adding a type. I doubt it's an A, honestly.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Keldeo, Metagross, and Sableye are most certainly not S rank. Keldeo is OK but loses a lot of value between Ghost Chansey being a reliable block to it, unlike in Standard, and between its typing and movepool it really doesn't have any particularly amazing adds. (I've seen Grass Keldeo, which I honestly think is probably superior to Ground since Flying attacks are extremely rare to find outside of Flying types, it protects against the common Ground without making the Electric weakness worse like Flying would and in fact protects against Electric and Grass... it's a solid typing, really)

I haven't seen Metagross more than once (And it wasn't even Mega Metagross), so I don't have a lot of concrete worth to add -I will note that Fighting is another option, between the Dark resistance, additional Stealth Rock resistance, and Hammer Arm STAB letting Metagross hit things pretty hard. Loses the Fairy resistance, which is unfortunate, but being neutral to Flying is not usually a big deal while Fighting being weak to Psychic is completely trivial due to the innate double resistance.

I haven't seen Mega Sableye much myself either, but it really struggles against too many of the really amazing Pokemon no matter what typing you give it -it can't really do anything about Unaware Clefable, even Will O Wisp won't help it against Fire Mega Altaria, Grass Manaphy will probably just murder it with Tail Glow Scald... the list goes on, and the fact that both its most obvious adds are vulnerable to Ground makes it predictable.

​

I've also seen Dragon Azumarill, which provides a nifty set of resistances so long as you don't encounter a Freeze Dry Pokemon. (So basically Mamoswine) Azumarill probably deserves an A rank just because it's a rare example of a Pokemon that has something more than 1-2 highly viable adds -Fire is also very good on it and provides it Will O Wisp immunity. It was very popular in XY Hidden Type and I'm surprised I haven't seen people running it to check Mega Altaria -if Mega Altaria is carrying Fire Blast over Earthquake (Or Roost over a third attacking move, which I've seen) it's not got a lot it can do about Azumarill.

Jack Dalton also thinks S rank is appropriate for Mega Altaria. I don't really agree, in part because both its best adds are vulnerable to Ground and there are a number of Pokemon it doesn't have much of an answer to, such as Flying Heatran, making it a lot easier than, say, Steel Dragonite to check or counter, but A+ seems appropriate to me.

I assume you mean Flying or Ghost for Bisharp. Bisharp is good, though a lot of the things it normally murders outright are carrying typings it can't take out so easily, and ultimately I think the main thing it has over (Mega) Tyranitar is Sucker Punch, which is nothing to laugh at but Mega Tyranitar can sweep teams after a Dragon Dance or two -Bisharp still has to fear fast statusers and the like after a Swords Dance/2 Swords Dance/Defiant triggers/whatever. Defog is also oddly unpopular in Hidden Type in my experience (Making Defiant less valuable, though I've no idea why, so I'm not willing to assume that will stay true. Sticky Web is also less popular, for obvious reasons: it's not unusual for a team to be 4 non-grounded Pokemon, limiting the value. (Which is also a flaw with Flying Bisharp -no Sticky Web Defiant boost for you)

I've covered Mega Charizard X in previous posts. Somewhere in A sounds basically right to me.

Actually, Clefable often runs Water or, for reasons that mystify me, Dragon. It's been a while since I've fought a Steel Clefable, now that I think about it... a solid, important Pokemon, at any rate.

Yeah Gengar running Shadow Ball+Focus Blast is only resisted-or-better by Normal/Ghosts, and with Dark Pulse not even those. (And then Ghost Mega Lopunny comes along and laughs at you) I usually fight Electric variants myself, though I've seen the odd Steel type, I guess fishing for more resistances to keep Gengar in the fight longer. Regardless, it's not a given what it will be doing and weaker Knock Offs and Sucker Punches will often fail to KO Dark Gengar, which can turn the tide of a match. Maybe A- minus, because it's still hard to keep Gengar alive, and attempting to do so tends to create movepool problems.

I think I've seen (Mega) Diancie like once. The only thing I really have to add is that it still struggles due to its movepool problems -no Physical Fairy move and no Special Rock move, barring Hidden Power Rock which means not adding a type. I doubt it's an A, honestly.

I was going after OU viability rankings, basically going down the list. Dragonite doesn't counter Mega Altaria, it loses if it comes in on stealth rock and Mega Altaria Dragon dances. I was just mentioning what I've seen on the ladder, or what I've used myself. It could probably be the focus of this thread for a couple of days, we could at least so new comers have an idea what to use and what not to use.

 

[blagpag]

It may be unconventional but poison/fighting/dark toxicroak could be lots of fun- kills the psychic weakness and adds a STAB sucker punch, or if you're really special a nasty plot STAB dark pulse

 

[Ghoul King]

I was going after OU viability rankings, basically going down the list. Dragonite doesn't counter Mega Altaria, it loses if it comes in on stealth rock and Mega Altaria Dragon dances. I was just mentioning what I've seen on the ladder, or what I've used myself. It could probably be the focus of this thread for a couple of days, we could at least so new comers have an idea what to use and what not to use.

Aaaah, yes that makes more sense. Yeah, covering the Pokemon using the OU tier list as a reference point could be useful, since Hidden Type doesn't have all that many "wait why is this thing viable in Hidden Type it's totally un-viable in Standard" Pokemon.

I never said Dragonite counters Mega Altaria. I said it's easier to check or counter Mega Altaria than it is to check or counter Steel Dragonite. I honestly don't know how you extracted that meaning.

It may be unconventional but poison/fighting/dark toxicroak could be lots of fun- kills the psychic weakness and adds a STAB sucker punch, or if you're really special a nasty plot STAB dark pulse

The only thing unconventional about it is using Toxicroak at all. It's by far it's best typing, with the only real disadvantage being that you become vulnerable to Fairy rather than neutral.

 

[DinaIsha]

Fire is certainly one of the, if not the best Typing on Mega Metagross. You still KO steels with a +2 Fighting Contact Move, no STAB required. But a Physical Mega immune to Burn is particularly invaluable. Plus Fire Punch is STAB + Contact, if you want to try that. But you'll miss out on Heatran.

 

[Gradient Facade]

For those still looking for something to help take care of steel dragonite, I have started using smack down on steel landorus-t with great results. Earthquake will KO dragonite after a smack down if it is offensive while a +1 outrage does not even 2HKO.

This set can also work against heatran, but another typing can be used to ensure that you are not scared out by a potential SE hit and is a good anti-meta set in general.

 

[dhelmise]

I'd like to try and bring up 2 niche mons in the meta, that I think are worthy of B rank. Those two moms are Dragon Gyarados and Shedinja.

I'd like to say I was the first to think of dragon Gyarados when it was first OMotM, but that's probably not true. Anyhow, the first thing that comes to mind with dragon is ridiculously powerful outrages once set up with a dd or 2. It has 40 BP over waterfall and 20 BP over EQ. The influx of steel typed doesn't really bother Gyarados too incredibly much, as water provides nice neutral coverage alongside it. For a comparison to ground Gyarados, the elec weakness remains instead of being an immunity, the ice weakness remains on both types, but dragon resists water and grass instead of being neutral/weak to it, respectively, trading off a fairy and dragon weakness. Slight downsides there. Ground is still generally better, but it's something to consider, I think.

I myself haven't dabbled with Shedinja, but those who followed the minitour should know a bit about it. The fact that it can be weak to a different set of types depending on what is added is bound to create major mindgames, provided hazards are kept off the field.

Also, I'd think both grass and flytran should be put in the same rank. Both have developed enough to the point where grass doesn't just have a niche over flying and is otherwise inferior.

literally omg yes. Dragon Gyara is one of my favorite HT mons; however, I don't thing Shedinja is quite deserving of this rank. :(

sorry for one-liner but this is my opinion, don't feel like explaining atm.

wait

WOAH ITS MY 666

Delete world for 666

Eevee General Goddess Briyella Jessilina The Mansavage Starbloom~ Sparkychild @other people

 

[NotSoClutch]

Thoughts electric kyurem black? Adds stab to fusion bolt, only adds one weakness and gains a resistance and a neutrality.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

For anyone who have trouble vs Steel Dragonite, I don't know exactly the problem, but I met around 5-6 Steel Dragonites so far and most of them lose to Mega Metagross, some of them to LO Feraligatr. My strategy is to keep rocks on the field, then Mega Metagross (don't have to be Ice type) use Ice Punch. Idk why but most of the Dragonites I met never use Earthquake. They probably think Mega Metagross is Flying type.

Edit: For Grass Manaphy, Poison Lando is a good check I think.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

For anyone who have trouble vs Steel Dragonite, I don't know exactly the problem, but I met around 5-6 Steel Dragonites so far and most of them lose to Mega Metagross, some of them to LO Feraligatr. My strategy is to keep rocks on the field, then Mega Metagross (don't have to be Ice type) use Ice Punch. Idk why but most of the Dragonites I met never use Earthquake. They probably think Mega Metagross is Flying type.

Edit: For Grass Manaphy, Poison Lando is a good check I think.

That's not even an argument. I'd almost like to compare Dragonite to Primal groudon in Uber, it's the most dangerous pokemon in the tier without a doubt. You're not always going to have rocks to field and Metagross does not enjoy taking a +1 Earthquake.

For those still looking for something to help take care of steel dragonite, I have started using smack down on steel landorus-t with great results. Earthquake will KO dragonite after a smack down if it is offensive while a +1 outrage does not even 2HKO.

This set can also work against heatran, but another typing can be used to ensure that you are not scared out by a potential SE hit and is a good anti-meta set in general.

You can also use Gravity, for 100% accurate Focus Blasts and unavoidable Earth powers

 

[NotSoClutch]

For anyone who have trouble vs Steel Dragonite, I don't know exactly the problem, but I met around 5-6 Steel Dragonites so far and most of them lose to Mega Metagross, some of them to LO Feraligatr. My strategy is to keep rocks on the field, then Mega Metagross (don't have to be Ice type) use Ice Punch. Idk why but most of the Dragonites I met never use Earthquake. They probably think Mega Metagross is Flying type.

Edit: For Grass Manaphy, Poison Lando is a good check I think.

There are tons of things that revenge Manaphy, but I don't think any of them (especially not poison lando) enjoy switching in on its attacks.

 

[Isa Simple]

Thoughts electric kyurem black? Adds stab to fusion bolt, only adds one weakness and gains a resistance and a neutrality.

Electric Kyub is quit strong in this meta game. Electric STAB is actually really strong and there is no denying that STAB Fusion Bolt coming off of Kyub's monstrous attack stat hits like a truck.

Another really good typing for Kyub is Ground, as it gives neutral SR damage substantially increasing its longativity and adds STAB to Terravolt Earth Power to bop the large portion of levitators floating around.

EDIT: Poison Lando is bopped by Scald and Ice Beam, there are plenty of far better checks.

 

[11pikabro]

The Roost + 3 Attacks Water Mega Scizor set proves useful as a good switch-in on the same turn Grass Manaphy uses Tail Glow:

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 248 HP / 164 SpD Mega Scizor: 130-153 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(single-type resist that also applies to Manaphy's Energy Ball, given that it's the same net type effectiveness)
Psychic and Ice Beam are doing even less, since Scizor resists those, too.

Although Scizor's U-turn will only cut about half of Manaphy's HP from full (more or less) despite being a super-effective hit, that damage should still be enough for Scizor's safely sent-in partner to follow up and KO Manaphy.
Alternatively, the same turn could be used instead to set up a Swords Dance + Bug Bite OHKO combo, but bulky SD Scizor usually doesn't run Bug Bite last time I checked, and fully offensive SD Mega Scizor is 2HKO'd by the same attacks.

Pivot Mega Scizor is good, but with other more dominant Mega Evolutions in Hidden Type and Water Scizor's very exploitable Electric weakness, there's a high cost for using it. Being able to pivot off the likes of Grass Manaphy, though, is a nice niche.

 

[Isa Simple]

However Water Scizor is a fairly nice check to Manaphy, you do have to careful of Scald Burns, as Scald is generally used over Surf given the power difference is substantial enough to justify not having that burn chance to cripple what would other wise be a decent check (Kinda like Sub/CM Keldeo).
That said though Water Scizor is still a decent check and it is nice to cut down that fire weakness.

EDIT: Just realised that STAB Foul Play actually is quite strong in this meta due to all the set up sweepers, and can be chucked on a fair few things given Dark is a decent enough typing and gives max IVs.
Mandibuzz would remain a strong abuser, but also there are also some new ones:
Mew: Psychic / Dark isn't the best typing but Mew is good enough to pull it off and would appreciate STAB Foul Play and Knock Off.
The Rotom Forms: Gen 6 tutors ftw. They also can choose to use STAB Dark Pulse.
Porygon 2: Gains 4x Fighting weakness but is still nice.

To give an idea of STAB Foul Play in action:
+1 0 Atk Pikachu Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 271-321 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Also would Ditto be stronger in this meta for similar reasons?

 

[I like donkeys]

However Water Scizor is a fairly nice check to Manaphy, you do have to careful of Scald Burns, as Scald is generally used over Surf given the power difference is substantial enough to justify not having that burn chance to cripple what would other wise be a decent check (Kinda like Sub/CM Keldeo).
That said though Water Scizor is still a decent check and it is nice to cut down that fire weakness.

EDIT: Just realised that STAB Foul Play actually is quite strong in this meta due to all the set up sweepers, and can be chucked on a fair few things given Dark is a decent enough typing and gives max IVs.
Mandibuzz would remain a strong abuser, but also there are also some new ones:
Mew: Psychic / Dark isn't the best typing but Mew is good enough to pull it off and would appreciate STAB Foul Play and Knock Off.
The Rotom Forms: Gen 6 tutors ftw. They also can choose to use STAB Dark Pulse.
Porygon 2: Gains 4x Fighting weakness but is still nice.

To give an idea of STAB Foul Play in action:
+1 0 Atk Pikachu Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 271-321 (83.9 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Also would Ditto be stronger in this meta for similar reasons?

Holy shit, dark-type Diggersby with foul play. Slap on a scarf and watch things die: (fyi huge power doubles the power of foul play)

252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Steel Dragonite: 363-427 (112.3 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming max attack + adamant)
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ghost Bisharp: 331-391 (121.6 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def (a type that doesnt resist dark) Mega Heracross: 357-421 (118.6 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (holy fuck, thats not even adamant)

Who cares if it's 4x weak to mach punch and basically every form of priority amirite?

 

[DinaIsha]

What? How is Poison Landorus a check? It's KOed by Ice Bean

Holy shit, dark-type Diggersby with foul play. Slap on a scarf and watch things die: (fyi huge power doubles the power of foul play)

252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Steel Dragonite: 363-427 (112.3 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming max attack + adamant)
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ghost Bisharp: 331-391 (121.6 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def (a type that doesnt resist dark) Mega Heracross: 357-421 (118.6 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (holy fuck, thats not even adamant)

Who cares if it's 4x weak to mach punch and basically every form of priority amirite?

I'd vouch for this.. I used it for some time on the ladder today. Note that Diggersby gets Agility. Set up Agility with a Substitute and murder everything, and by everything, I mean EVERYTHING. I'm too tired to do calculations, but Opponent's Attack + Huge Power + STAB is overwhelming and 2HKOes a lot of walls. You don't even have to ask for setup sweepers, who are a guaranteed 0HKO after rocks.

The exceptions to this are very few. Do try it out.

 

[imas]

What? How is Poison Landorus a check? It's KOed by Ice Bean

It's faster, so it can switch in on a tail glow and KO it. It's very risky ofc, but yeah.

 

[I like donkeys]

I'd vouch for this.. I used it for some time on the ladder today. Note that Diggersby gets Swords Dance / Agility. Foul Play lets you take the opponent's Attack, while retaining the SD boost. Basically, set up Double Dance with a Substitute and murder everything, and by everything, I mean EVERYTHING.

Foul Play lets you take the opponent's Attack, while retaining the SD boost.

Sorry man I don't follow what you're saying :/
Setting up an SD doesn't boost foul play, only if the opponent sets one up. If you're setting up an SD you may as well use knock off or something.

 

[DinaIsha]

Sorry man I don't follow what you're saying :/
Setting up an SD doesn't boost foul play, only if the opponent sets one up. If you're setting up an SD you may as well use knock off or something.

Really? I believed SD takes the opponent's Attack Stat, however, it would still take into account your Attack boosts? If not then it's my fault.

Edit: Changed my post.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Holy shit, dark-type Diggersby with foul play. Slap on a scarf and watch things die: (fyi huge power doubles the power of foul play)

252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Steel Dragonite: 363-427 (112.3 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (assuming max attack + adamant)
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ghost Bisharp: 331-391 (121.6 - 143.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def (a type that doesnt resist dark) Mega Heracross: 357-421 (118.6 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (holy fuck, thats not even adamant)

Who cares if it's 4x weak to mach punch and basically every form of priority amirite?

Just a nitpick, but you forgot Multiscale on Dragonite, which would allow it to live one, set up a Dragon Dance, and kill you back, assuming no Rocks.

 

[I like donkeys]

Just a nitpick, but you forgot Multiscale on Dragonite, which would allow it to live one, set up a Dragon Dance, and kill you back, assuming no Rocks.

I did not forget multiscale, I was showing how much damage it would do if multiscale was not intact (via rocks or something). And unless you are using jolly max speed Dragonite (which you shouldn't do btw, adamant is better) then scarf Diggersby still beats Dragonite thanks to choice scarf.

 

[Ghoul King]

For anyone who have trouble vs Steel Dragonite, I don't know exactly the problem, but I met around 5-6 Steel Dragonites so far and most of them lose to Mega Metagross, some of them to LO Feraligatr. My strategy is to keep rocks on the field, then Mega Metagross (don't have to be Ice type) use Ice Punch. Idk why but most of the Dragonites I met never use Earthquake. They probably think Mega Metagross is Flying type.

Edit: For Grass Manaphy, Poison Lando is a good check I think.

252 Atk Tough Claws (regular) Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale (Steel) Dragonite: 123-145 (38 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I'm skeptical.

252 Atk Tough Claws (Regular) Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def (Steel) Dragonite: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lemme reframe that: really skeptical. After one Dragon Dance Dragonite outspeeds and can Roost right through this (Remember: halve the damage Ice Punch is doing because it loses Flying typing), and as far as I recall Power Up Punch is Metagross' only reliable boosting move, and it already runs into 4MSS without carrying Power Up Punch. Yeah, with Stealth Rock up you have a chance of OHKOing it, but's only a chance, and a low one at that.

Poison Landorus-Incarnate can revenge-switch to force Grass Manaphy out, but that's about it.

The Roost + 3 Attacks Water Mega Scizor set proves useful as a good switch-in on the same turn Grass Manaphy uses Tail Glow:

+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 248 HP / 164 SpD Mega Scizor: 130-153 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(single-type resist that also applies to Manaphy's Energy Ball, given that it's the same net type effectiveness)
Psychic and Ice Beam are doing even less, since Scizor resists those, too.

Although Scizor's U-turn will only cut about half of Manaphy's HP from full (more or less) despite being a super-effective hit, that damage should still be enough for Scizor's safely sent-in partner to follow up and KO Manaphy.
Alternatively, the same turn could be used instead to set up a Swords Dance + Bug Bite OHKO combo, but bulky SD Scizor usually doesn't run Bug Bite last time I checked, and fully offensive SD Mega Scizor is 2HKO'd by the same attacks.

Pivot Mega Scizor is good, but with other more dominant Mega Evolutions in Hidden Type and Water Scizor's very exploitable Electric weakness, there's a high cost for using it. Being able to pivot off the likes of Grass Manaphy, though, is a nice niche.

Really risky no matter what, due to Burn chance off Scald. Certainly an interesting Pokemon for other reasons, but not much of a check to Grass Manaphy.

I'd vouch for this.. I used it for some time on the ladder today. Note that Diggersby gets Agility. Set up Agility with a Substitute and murder everything, and by everything, I mean EVERYTHING. I'm too tired to do calculations, but Opponent's Attack + Huge Power + STAB is overwhelming and 2HKOes a lot of walls. You don't even have to ask for setup sweepers, who are a guaranteed 0HKO after rocks.

The exceptions to this are very few. Do try it out.

Diggersby. Diggersby. Dude, stop... just... just stop taking away from me enjoying metas. Buddy, bunny, old pal, please.

I did not forget multiscale, I was showing how much damage it would do if multiscale was not intact (via rocks or something). And unless you are using jolly max speed Dragonite (which you shouldn't do btw, adamant is better) then scarf Diggersby still beats Dragonite thanks to choice scarf.

Worth commentary that Diggersby can set Spikes. Won't help against Steel Dragonite unless Gravity is up for some reason, but it's something for Dark Death Diggersby to do on turns it doesn't feel like going for Foul Play, Agility, or Substitute.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

252 Atk Tough Claws (regular) Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale (Steel) Dragonite: 123-145 (38 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I'm skeptical.

252 Atk Tough Claws (Regular) Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def (Steel) Dragonite: 246-290 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lemme reframe that: really skeptical. After one Dragon Dance Dragonite outspeeds and can Roost right through this (Remember: halve the damage Ice Punch is doing because it loses Flying typing), and as far as I recall Power Up Punch is Metagross' only reliable boosting move, and it already runs into 4MSS without carrying Power Up Punch. Yeah, with Stealth Rock up you have a chance of OHKOing it, but's only a chance, and a low one at that.

Poison Landorus-Incarnate can revenge-switch to force Grass Manaphy out, but that's about it.



Really risky no matter what, due to Burn chance off Scald. Certainly an interesting Pokemon for other reasons, but not much of a check to Grass Manaphy.



Diggersby. Diggersby. Dude, stop... just... just stop taking away from me enjoying metas. Buddy, bunny, old pal, please.



Worth commentary that Diggersby can set Spikes. Won't help against Steel Dragonite unless Gravity is up for some reason, but it's something for Dark Death Diggersby to do on turns it doesn't feel like going for Foul Play, Agility, or Substitute.

Well Mega Gross does get Hone Claws which I consider relevant due to imperfect accuracy on its most powerful STABs. I just want to make people aware that Hone Claws, Zen Heatbutt, Meteor Mash, coverage move of choice IS viable.

 

[Isa Simple]

After testing it, there is no denying that Dark Death Diggersby is actually an epic revenge killer.
Jolly Scarf Out speeds and OHKOs Dragonite after a DD if Multi Scale is broken and can just in general OHKO almost all physical attackers that don't resist it and even a lot of special attackers.
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 220-259 (79.4 - 93.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Huge Power Diggersby Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Bearing in mind it still has STAB on Return and Earthquake I'd almost put it as high as A-, as it is just so good at revenge killing physical attackers and slightly worn down special attackers.
#DarkDeathDiggersbyHype
#DDD

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Umm... Does Mega Metagross really need Zen Headbutt in this meta? Considering too many things run Steel or Dark type, I think having coverage is better.