Hidden Type

Saw that this was OMotM and decided to give it a try, and I'm loving it. So much unpredictability and fun in team building.

To deal with Dragonite, I've been trying out this guy:
. Ground/Flying/Dragon hidden types seem to be popular as well as mons like Lando that can't get rid of their Ice weakness, which gives Adaptability Ice Beam the power to OHKO many major threats. I'm not sure yet how Scarf Ice Porygon-Z compares with Scarf Dark Diggersby aside from Z outspeeding +1 Jolly Dragonite when Diggersby can't, so I'll need to look into that more. Aside from SR, Porygon-Z is already somewhat of a glass cannon, so its weaknesses from its new typing aren't too much of an issue. Plus, Ghost being very common for Porygon-Z gives it some protection from Fighting moves. I'm still somewhat new to this meta though, so I don't know if this is really viable or not.
 
Saw that this was OMotM and decided to give it a try, and I'm loving it. So much unpredictability and fun in team building.

To deal with Dragonite, I've been trying out this guy:
. Ground/Flying/Dragon hidden types seem to be popular as well as mons like Lando that can't get rid of their Ice weakness, which gives Adaptability Ice Beam the power to OHKO many major threats. I'm not sure yet how Scarf Ice Porygon-Z compares with Scarf Dark Diggersby aside from Z outspeeding +1 Jolly Dragonite when Diggersby can't, so I'll need to look into that more. Aside from SR, Porygon-Z is already somewhat of a glass cannon, so its weaknesses from its new typing aren't too much of an issue. Plus, Ghost being very common for Porygon-Z gives it some protection from Fighting moves. I'm still somewhat new to this meta though, so I don't know if this is really viable or not.
Unfortunately Ice Beam doesn't OHKO without multi scale broken, you are better off just running Fake Out / Ice Punch Mega Lopunny which can out speed Adamant Dragonite, break multi scale with FO and KO with Ice Punch.
Jolly Dragonite is easier to wall and misses crucial KOs.
It is still useful, but it is outclassed by other things, another example being Scarf Kyub, as it can out speed and OHKO with Terravolt ignoring Multiscale.
 
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Unfortunately Ice Beam doesn't OHKO without multi scale broken, you are better off just running Fake Out / Ice Punch Mega Lopunny which can out speed Adamant Dragonite, break multi scale with FO and KO with Ice Punch.
Jolly Dragonite is easier to wall and misses crucial KOs.
It is still useful, but it is outclassed by other things, another example being Scarf Kyub, as it can out speed and OHKO with Terravolt ignoring Multiscale.
I agree, scarf Kyurem-B is a better revenge-killer (for Dragonite at least) than scarf Porygon-Z, thanks to it's insane offensive stats and it's good speed tier for a scarfer.
 
Ghost P2 has been an absolute beast for me recently. So few Pokemon break it and those that do generally are setup Pokemon that don't appreciate an ice beam or t-wave. Obviously you have to be wary of random knock offs so P2 is far from unstoppable, but I think it's worth looking into for anyone trying to run a stally team.
 
I'd like to nominate Landorus-T for A+

Landorus-T has multiple sets. Defensive SR + Water, Choice Scarf + Dark/Bug/Rock, Duel Dance + Rock, Earth plate(I don't know what type this set uses), Banded Stallbreaker

Aside from its normal sets Landorus-T can now use Banded stallbreaker to hit incredible hard with Banded, Stab, Knock off. Coupled with intimidate its fully able to check Dragonite and Altaria as they're both OHKO'd after rocks. Most of what's been said for Landorus-t can you find in OU as it's equally, if not better, in this metagame and can easily be S or A+ rank.

Upvotes for though?
 
Tbh I haven't seen almost any Landorus-Ts but I'd imagine it still being a top threat.
I think A+ is fair, it is too strong at too many roles to be any lower with even its Gravity set being strong in this meta, but I feel it would be out of place in S rank.
It would be like when it was S rank in normal OU for a while, it seems like one of the best A+ pokemon, but the worst S rank pokemon.
 
It is still useful, but it is outclassed by other things, another example being Scarf Kyub, as it can out speed and OHKO with Terravolt ignoring Multiscale.
Yeah, Kyu-B is looking much better.

I saw some discussion on Serperior earlier, and I'm wondering if Electric Serperior would be best for it. I've tried Steel Serperior, but a huge problem I had with it is that this meta is filled with common 8x Grass resists like Flying Heatran, Steel Dragonite and Dragon Skarmory. Rock Serperior hits those harder and its Rock typing gives it the ability to survive a hit from Talonflame, but it'd now have a Steel/Fighting weakness. Electric Serperior can hit all 3 of the above for neutral or SE damage, can still beat Adamant Talonflame if it switches in (what to use for the second attack depends on how much damage Talon takes from Leaf Storm, 1/3ish means Ground Talonflame and the second Leaf Storm will KO, 1/5ish means HP Electric KOs), resists Bullet Punch (bye bye Water Scizor), and mons that run Ground are softening themselves up for Leaf Storm.
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Not sure if anyone has noticed but Flower Veil works on Florges if she is HP Grass. Free status immunity and your stats can't be lowered.


So, that means BP 120 Stab Petal Dance with no confusion is cool I guess...(Nevermind Flower Veil only prevents non-volatile status from occurring.)
 
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Are there any good Ice pokemon? I know its more weak to SR (Sadly), but there are many things that are weak to ice (Eg. Steel Dragonite, Water Gliscor). Ice Manaphy (w/ Ice Beam) maybe? I mean it's not as good as Grass Manaphy but what else is there?

Unfortunately Ice Beam doesn't OHKO without multi scale broken, you are better off just running Fake Out / Ice Punch Mega Lopunny which can out speed Adamant Dragonite, break multi scale with FO and KO with Ice Punch.
Jolly Dragonite is easier to wall and misses crucial KOs.
It is still useful, but it is outclassed by other things, another example being Scarf Kyub, as it can out speed and OHKO with Terravolt ignoring Multiscale.
Coulda sworn only Choice Band could kill...
252+ Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 548-648 (141.9 - 167.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 36-42 (11.1 - 13%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 229-271 (70.8 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery(Neutral)

83.9%+13 = 96.9%. Non-bulky can't even kill...unless your talking about Ice Lopunny-Mega, regular (unless Jolly also) can't kill.
 
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Are there any good Ice pokemon? I know its more weak to SR (Sadly), but there are many things that are weak to ice (Eg. Steel Dragonite, Water Gliscor). Ice Manaphy (w/ Ice Beam) maybe? I mean it's not as good as Grass Manaphy but what else is there?
for native ice types kyub and mamoswine are pretty good while kyurem and fighting weavile are decent.

pokemon that become ice type have to be shit defensively for it to be worth it. however none of the glass cannons that get ice beam want to be ice(e.g. pz). I'd say that if you really want ice stab you could use ice nidoking but for the most part he prefers fire and isn't really good in the first place here.
 
I think Ice Latios is better than Ice Nidoking but Kyub and Mamoswine are generally far better so if you really want Ice STAB I'd go with one of them, though you could opt for a better Freeze Dry user than Mamoswine maybe as Freeze Dry is epic in this meta.
The best Freeze Dry user is still Mega Glalie which benefits from a few typings and if you don't wanna use up your mega the next best is probably Articuno or Vanilluxe.
None of them are horrible with an additional typing (most would probs appreciate less SR damage) so they have a useable niche now but are still mediocre at best.
 
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OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
This is a fun set I came up with that is really easy to use. It is like a slower and weaker Mega Lop that doesn't take up a Mega Slot.
It can still get the OHKO on Ghost Ttar at -1, so it does its job.



Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Frustration
- Superpower


Probably put Facade in the third move slot, since it would do immense damage with a status condition. I didn't mess around with it a whole lot but it is fun to play with.
 
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This is a fun set I came up with that is really easy to use. It is like a slower and weaker Mega Lop that doesn't take up a Mega Slot.
It can still get the OHKO on Ghost Ttar at -1, so it does its job.



Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Frustration
- Superpower


Probably put Facade in the third move slot, since it would do immense damage with a status condition. I didn't mess around with it a whole lot but it is fun to play with.
Yeah this is quite cool. Exploud, Kangaskan and Miltank can pull it off too.
However unfortunately this coverage isn't unresisted in this meta, as any combination of two fighting resists and a normal resist can take it. But it is still really darn good.

Kangaskan and Miltank are actually really cool and versatile in this meta.
Both can pull off a very large array of sets with Miltank being able to go with Scrappy + Fighting, or utilise Sap Sipper and Thick Fat to abuse typings that may be weak to Grass or Ice and Fire otherwise. Like Thick Fat + Grass, or Sap Sipper and Water.

I've actually been doing quite a bit of testing and theorymonning with Kangaskan as well. AV Fighting type Kanga gets that stillsweatyetnolongerperfect Scrappy/Fighting/Normal STAB combo with STAB Drain punch and Circle Throw going sweat with AV. Dark Kangaskan was also decent with STAB Fake Out and Sucker Punch, but fighting AV kanga is actually really sweat, given its its epic coverage options as well, so I think could go B-.
Miltank maybe in the Cs somewhere.
 
I think Ice Latios is better than Ice Nidoking but Kyub and Mamoswine are generally far better so if you really want Ice STAB I'd go with one of them, though you could opt for a better Freeze Dry user than Mamoswine maybe as Freeze Dry is epic in this meta.
The best Freeze Dry user is still Mega Glalie which benefits from a few typings and if you don't wanna use up your mega the next best is probably Articuno or Vanilluxe.
None of them are horrible with an additional typing (most would probs appreciate less SR damage) so they have a useable niche now but are still mediocre at best.
I experimented with Freeze Dry the first time Hidden Type had a ladder, and part of the problem is that everything except Mamoswine and Lapras is either fast-but-not-fast-enough and fragile and otherwise pretty meh or is slow and still fragile, if only due to typing. (And you can't really fix Aurorus' typing -it will have a double weaknesses, if not multiple of them, no matter what you add) I never gave Lapras a shot so I couldn't speak to its viability -maybe on a stall team or something- but honestly I suspect Mamoswine remains the only viable Freeze Dry user.

I even experimented with Ground Articuno, and while it wasn't awful as a pseudo-stall choice, having decent Special bulk, Roost, Defog, and a typing that makes Stealth Rock almost bearable, the only set I could find that seemed even vaguely sensible was Freeze Dry/U-Turn/Roost/Defog. I dunno, maybe I'm underestimating the value to stall it presents?

But Mamoswine is probably the most generally viable user regardless.

Mega Glalie has the key flaw that it's kind of a mediocre Mega when there are amazing Mega choices out there. If your team ends up with no Mega slots in the first five Pokemon and you want a Freeze Dry user, sure, I guess give it a shot, but this seems unlikely to me.

Plus everything with Freeze Dry is basically a neon sign of "I'm here to use Freeze Dry!" other than Mamoswine and maybe Lapras. It makes it difficult to actually use Freeze Dry to good effect....

Yeah this is quite cool. Exploud, Kangaskan and Miltank can pull it off too.
However unfortunately this coverage isn't unresisted in this meta, as any combination of two fighting resists and a normal resist can take it. But it is still really darn good.
I'd like to point out that means a combination of either Rock or Steel with any two of Fairy (Impossible to add), Bug (Very few things actually run this), Psychic (Largely Bad Ghost), Poison (An inferior Steel for the majority of Pokemon) or Flying. This is very unlikely to crop up, and is even less likely to crop up as viable.

Specifically the Pokemon that even can run this are...

-The myriad Bug/Flying Pokemon that are completely awful. And I've crunched the possibilities: there is no type combination that includes Bug/Flying and lacks a double weakness.

-The myriad Bug/Poison Pokemon that are also completely awful. At least there are acceptable type combinations that include Bug/Poison, but people don't run Venomoth in Hidden Type or anything.

-Crobat. To be entirely fair Steel Crobat is something I've seen people try, but Stoutland gets Fire Fang.

-Metagross. (And other Psychic/Steels, but whatever) Flying Metagross is a legitimate possibility and walls the Scrappy set. Again, Fire Fang is a thing.

-Aerodactyl. I can't imagine a reason for Aerodactyl to run any of Poison, Bug, or Psychic.

-Steel Togekiss is a thing that actually happens. Again, Fire Fang. You won't see Rock Togekiss if for no other reason than because Bullet Punch will instagib it and resisting this Scrappy set is about the only good thing about it.

-The multiple Bug/Steel Pokemon. I think I've seen Flying Forretress, but that's about all i'm thinking of; it's much more normal to try to reduce the Fire weakness to a manageable level, which obviates fully resisting the Scrappy set. Also, Fire Fang.

-Diancie and Carbink. Neither of these seems to be viable in Hidden Type. I could see Diancie running either of Psychic or Flying, but I'm not convinced those are great adds for it and if it's not viable it's not relevant.

-Xatu, Swoobat, Sigilyph, Lugia. While Steel seems to be the most common typing on these when I see them, I don't see them very often and they don't seem very good. Also, Fire Fang.

-Armaldo, Crustle, Shuckle. I've never seen any of these in Hidden Type, which now that I think about it puzzles me a little... not even Shuckle? Odd. Regardless, Flying is the only one of the relevant adds that seems reasonably plausible (Well, maybe Poison on Crustle), and I have my doubts that it would be the choice. Double Rock weakness is a problem, and supporting your Scrappy set with Stealth Rock would seriously screw with it anyway.

-Solrock and Lunatone. They're Solrock and Lunatone, they're automatically bad.

-Gardevoir and Mr. Mime. Nobody is going to add Rock to either of them, and if they add Steel (Which I don't think is very optimal anyway) then we're right back to Fire Fang.

.... so basically Diancie and Shuckle might wall you after you've added Fire Fang, and that's about it for vaguely plausibly competitive possibilities.

tl;dr: Add Fire Fang to Scrappy set, nothing competitive walls you by type.
 
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I've been having success with my team (peaked around top 10 in ladder) and many of the battles, this guy is the mvp.

Wobbuffet @ Leftovers/Custap Berry
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD (can be adjusted)
Bold Nature
- Counter
- Mirror Coat
- Encore
- Safeguard/Destiny Bond

No need IV modification, because it's Dark type.

For you Wobbuffet haters, yes, I love using Wobbuffet in almost every OM and I think thing just got better in here. Psychic/Dark makes it only has two weaknesses from uncommon attacking types (Bug and Fairy, though the 4x U-turn weak suks). It has much easier time revenge killing because almost all things do neutral damage to this. Only problem it got is vs Ghost hidden types, because it can switch and is immune to Counter. It probably has trouble vs Dark special attackers, but I have never run into one special attacker with dark hidden type because special attackers generally has better coverage to get STAB of.

Just simply Encore almost anything opponent use, then Mirror Coat or Counter if it use an attacking move, Safeguard if it use a status move, then switch to something like Steel Dragonite or Dark Feraligatr and get a free Dragon Dance. If you suspect a choice item, just simply Counter or Mirror Coat it. EVs can be adjusted if you want a bulkier spread, but I use 252 HP to maximize Counter and Mirror Coat damage. 63 HP is quite significant I think.

Fighting type is another option for Stealth Rock resistance and neutrality against U-turns, though you get a super effective damage vs birds, which I don't like to deal with.
 
So after focussing this afternoon more on laddering with my main team rather than testing countless other things (but still a lot of testing), I've finally hit 1300elo and 15th on the ladder and would like to make a nomination based on my experiences on the ladder with an extremely underrated or underused mon in this meta.

Steel MANtine to A-

Honestly this thing has proved to be an epic addition to my stall team and is MVP on so many occasions.
This is the game that got me to #15 and is a brilliant showcase of Mantine's potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/hiddentype-217208858

With defensive stats of 65 / 70 / 140, with scald's sweet burn chance scaring off physical attackers and its epic Water/Flying/Steel typing plus water absorb boasting:
Only 1 weakness being Electric (4x)
3 immunities being Poisons (toxic), Water and Ground.
and 9 resistance being Normal, Grass, Ice, Flying, Psychic, Bug (4x), Dragon, Steel (4x) and Fairy,
it is easy to see the potential.

It is a fantastic check to bucket loads of special attackers with only a few exceptions outside of Electric types. It is a particularly great check to Grass Manaphy, Landorus-I (without gravity) and Water Dragalge (without Thunderbolt), which can often be quite hard for a lot of team to take. It also checks a surprisingly high amount of physical attackers thanks to its immunities and resistances, even with its low defensive stats.

Defog is even more fantastic in this meta as it prevents your opponent scouting your typing with hazards. Scald is great for that sweat burn chance wearing down the opponents and crippling physical attackers hard. Toxic wears down whatever is can't beat with scald. And Haze prevents pokemon from setting up.

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 SpD
- Defog
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic

Also while I'm at it I may as well say that Mega Sableye still deserves A or A+. It is still a monster and if you can't check it or you misplay, you will lose...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/hiddentype-217208392

That said though are we still even doing the viability rankings? Not much has been nominated for a rank and it hasn't been updated for a while now. If so will the Viability Ranking be updated on the second post underneath the OP?

EDIT: I've got a sweet Lure Bronzong set which I wanna share but I just wanna screw a few more people over before I do ;)
 
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^that replay was vs me btw (probably the only Wobbuffet user you've seen so far). But yeah. Steel Mantine gave me trouble, as I never see any Haze so far in Hidden Type and I'm trying to defy the trend by not using Dragonite or Manaphy. That was a good game though.

I don't get why Dark/Poison Landorus is in A+. Besides Grass Manaphy, Poison Landorus doesn't hit anything due to the amount of Steel/Flying types and you have to rely on the unreliable Focus Miss. It's not very good imo.
 
^that replay was vs me btw (probably the only Wobbuffet user you've seen so far). But yeah. Steel Mantine gave me trouble, as I never see any Haze so far in Hidden Type and I'm trying to defy the trend by not using Dragonite or Manaphy. That was a good game though.

I don't get why Dark/Poison Landorus is in A+. Besides Grass Manaphy, Poison Landorus doesn't hit anything due to the amount of Steel/Flying types and you have to rely on the unreliable Focus Miss. It's not very good imo.
Haha yes you are the only Wobbuffet user I've seen xD. GG.
I can definitely see Dark Wobbuffet being sweet vs more offensive teams and encore against set up sweepers gives great opportunities for your own set up sweepers to get some free turns.

But yeah I'm sort of uncertain about Landorus-I. I feel that for me its A+ due to its Gravity set, which I have personally struggled against and had great success with. But its hard to pick a strong secondary typing. I guess its just in general an A+ worthy pokemon and Dark / Poison are just its best options. They aren't the greatest boosts, but boosts none the less. STAB Knock Off is just generally really strong and good for Stall Breaking, and however better coverage in standard OU, STAB Sludge Wave is not to be underestimated. Hitting Grass Manaphy super effectively is actually quite a big deal and it also hits some fairies like my Water Clefable (but of course it could be steel Clef). Not to mention Poison is largely free resists as you are immune to ground and Psychic weaknesses are super easy to cover.
 
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OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Hax can finally run a set that isn't completely outclassed by Chomp. Ground Hax is not bad with a huge base attack, SD, and DD. It can fire off really strong mold breaker Stab Eqs and outspeed a ton of threats after just one DD, with very little speed investment. Also gets rock slide for that good coverage and with so much attack the power difference over Stone Miss is tolerable. Ground gives Hax an immunity to switch in on as long as it isn't a bolt/beam abuser. Bolt/Beam coverage is sort of good in this meta btw. Bolt/Beam is Almost as good as it is in a normal meta being due to the fact that many mons find it very difficult to avoid neutral damage, it just doesn't hit as many things super effectively as it would in a normal meta.
 
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So after focussing this afternoon more on laddering with my main team rather than testing countless other things (but still a lot of testing), I've finally hit 1300elo and 15th on the ladder and would like to make a nomination based on my experiences on the ladder with an extremely underrated or underused mon in this meta.

Steel MANtine to A-

Honestly this thing has proved to be an epic addition to my stall team and is MVP on so many occasions.
This is the game that got me to #15 and is a brilliant showcase of Mantine's potential.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/hiddentype-217208858

With defensive stats of 65 / 70 / 140, with scald's sweat brun chance scaring off physical attackers and its epic Water/Flying/Steel typing plus water absorb boasting:
Only 1 weakness being Electric (4x)
3 immunities being Poisons (toxic), Water and Ground.
and 9 resistance being Normal, Grass, Ice, Flying, Psychic, Bug (4x), Dragon, Steel (4x) and Fairy,
it is easy to see the potential.

It is a fantastic check to bucket loads of special attackers with only a few exceptions outside of Electric types. It is a particularly great check to Grass Manaphy, Landorus-I (without gravity) and Water Dragalge (without Thunderbolt), which can often be quite hard for a lot of team to take. It also checks a surprisingly high amount of physical attackers thanks to its immunities and resistances, even with its low defensive stats.

Defog is even more fantastic in this meta as it prevents your opponent scouting your typing with hazards. Scald is great for that sweat burn chance wearing down the opponents and crippling physical attackers hard. Toxic wears down whatever is can't beat with scald. And Haze prevents pokemon from setting up.

Mantine @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 SpD
- Defog
- Scald
- Haze
- Toxic

Also while I'm at it I may as well say that Mega Sableye still deserves A or A+. It is still a monster and if you can't check it or you misplay, you will lose...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/hiddentype-217208392

That said though are we still even doing the viability rankings? Not much has been nominated for a rank and it hasn't been updated for a while now. If so will the Viability Ranking be updated on the second post underneath the OP?

EDIT: I've got a sweat Lure Bronzong set which I wanna share but I just wanna screw a few more people over before I do ;)
The word is spelled "sweet". "Sweat" is the stuff that oozes out of your skin. But

-Mantine was hit with Thunderbolt

-Lost less than 2/3rds of its health

is just O_O

I have been underestimating Mantine's Special bulk. It's too bad it has no recovery (Well Aqua Ring, but whatever), but holy crap.

(Calcing it, Electric Mega Gardevoir will one-shot it with Thunderbolt though)

I don't get why Dark/Poison Landorus is in A+. Besides Grass Manaphy, Poison Landorus doesn't hit anything due to the amount of Steel/Flying types and you have to rely on the unreliable Focus Miss. It's not very good imo.
It's also immune to Toxic, resistant to Grass, doubly resistant to Fighting, and resistant to Fairy, which lets it switch in on a lot of things relatively reliably, double Ice weakness or no.

But the main thing is just that Landorus is really solid on its own. It doesn't get much out of Hidden Type, but it also doesn't suffer hugely -in particular, adding Ice is an extremely rare choice because of how costly it is (And running a base Ice type is uncommon too, in part because it combines poorly with so many good types -Ice/Steel is doubly weak to Fire and Fighting!), so even its double ice weakness is not so bad.

But yeah I'm sort of uncertain about Landorus-I. I feel that for me its A+ due to its Gravity set, which I have personally struggled against and had great success with. But its hard to pick a strong secondary typing. I guess its just in general an A+ worthy pokemon and Dark / Poison are just its best options. They aren't the greatest boosts, but boosts none the less. STAB Knock Off is just generally really strong and good for Stall Breaking, and however better coverage in standard OU, STAB Sludge Wave is not to be underestimated. Hitting Grass Manaphy super effectively is actually quite a big deal and it also hits some fairies like my Water Clefable (but of course it could be steel Clef). Not to mention Poison is largely free resists as you are immune to ground and Psychic weaknesses are super easy to cover.
STAB Sludge Wave is better than it seems in conjunction with Landorus-Incarnate's other capabilities. To resist Poison without being vulnerable to Ground you need to be part Flying, carry Levitate, or be a Ground or Ghost type. Even aside from Gravity letting Landorus-Incarnate rip apart stuff like Flying Heatran, in the first place Ground is an uncommon add (And mostly found on Pokemon Landorus is dubious against anyway, such as Gyarados) while Ghost is primarily a common add on Pokemon that remain vulnerable to Ground after Ghost has been added, such as Bisharp and Tyranitar. It's not like it's generally useful to add Ground to Ghosts or add Ghost to Ground types: the only Ghosts that get Earthquake or Earth Power (Other than Golurk) are Trevenant, Giratina, and Dusclops/noir, while the only Ground types that get Shadow Ball or Shadow Claw (Other than Golurk again) are Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Claydol, Wormadam-Sandy (Also Nincada), Dugtrio, Excadrill, Garchomp, Groudon, Krookodile, Rhyperior and Sandslash. Of these only Excadrill, Rhyperior, and maybe Krookodile really have any defensive synergy out of becoming a Ground/Ghost, and for some of them it's a blatantly terrible idea. (Add Ghost to Claydol, become double weak to Dark and Ghost. Add Ground to Trevenant, become doubly weak to Ice) And Excadrill is immune to Sludge Wave anyway due to its Steel typing, while Rhyperior is doubly resistant to Poison in the first place and would rather due something about its Grass and Water weaknesses, or something. (And Rhyperior isn't viable anyway)

So a lot of the time, if the thing you're facing isn't Steel then Sludge Wave is actually a good, neutral STAB attack, stronger than Earth Power. And if Sludge Wave isn't a good attack, then Gravity-assisted Earth Power will almost always tear them apart. It basically needs to be something bizarre like Bug Ferrothorn for this to not be true. (And then you Focus Blast Ferrothorn)
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
One more thing....
I know I said something about it earlier, but nobody really seemed to pay attention.

Grass Florges. Great Win-Con Vs. Stall since it Cannot be afflicted with status due to Flower Veil. Also a hard counter to any Manaphy without Ice beam, as you can see here...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/hiddentype-217317961


Can even check Ice Beam Grass Manaphy with its great special bulk, Calm Mind, and Stab Giga Drain.. if it can come in before Manaphy has gotten off a Tail Glow.
 
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Pretty sure I've been getting mostly lower ladder opponents, but HP fire Serperior is putting a ton of work against this steel and fairy heavy metagame and has propelled me to the top 10 of the ladder. With the fire type, Serperior gains a really useful fairy resistance to help it take on steel type mega Altaria and the various Clefables, a neutrality to fire which is pretty big , a steel resistance which is ok, and most importantly helps serperior gain stab on a fairly important bit of coverage for this metagame. Fire, grass stab coverage is far from perfect in a game filled with Heatran, but it does allow for Serperior to hit most offensive teams with massive damage and is pretty easy to support I've found that Latias is a pretty solid teammate with the addition of water or fighting type hidden power (kind of niche, but works well regardless for both beating checks and defogging for serp).
 
So I'd like to make some nominations.

Mega Altaria S rank
Great bulk, unpredictability and the ability to run a plethora of sets. No Opportunity cost for Altaria except Mega Evolution, though it's arguably the best Mega Evolution in the tier
Bisharp for +A
Same thing as most metagames, it's extremely good. I can see it being S- rank but best placed in A+ rank. Can run a couple different types, mainly Flying & Ghost which enables it to cause 50/50s but that's not uncommon in this metagame
Dragonite for Suspect test
You know why.
Lopunny for A - A+
Lopunny can run Ghost and Electric and generally anything it wants stab on. Electric and ghost are probably the best, Electric lets you live Brave bird from Smogon bird and getting Stab Thunder punch. Ghost can be used to Counter Gengar and generally be able to switch in more as it's immune to Fighting. Being able to revenge kill Dragonite is also great Fake out + HJK.

That's it for now, thoughs?
 
So I'd like to make some nominations.

Mega Altaria S rank
Great bulk, unpredictability and the ability to run a plethora of sets. No Opportunity cost for Altaria except Mega Evolution, though it's arguably the best Mega Evolution in the tier
Bisharp for +A
Same thing as most metagames, it's extremely good. I can see it being S- rank but best placed in A+ rank. Can run a couple different types, mainly Flying & Ghost which enables it to cause 50/50s but that's not uncommon in this metagame
Dragonite for Suspect test
You know why.
Lopunny for A - A+
Lopunny can run Ghost and Electric and generally anything it wants stab on. Electric and ghost are probably the best, Electric lets you live Brave bird from Smogon bird and getting Stab Thunder punch. Ghost can be used to Counter Gengar and generally be able to switch in more as it's immune to Fighting. Being able to revenge kill Dragonite is also great Fake out + HJK.

That's it for now, thoughs?
Mega Altaria to S
I completely agree. The amount of added bulk from an extra type is insane. It's bulky DD set is probably the best setup sweeping set in the entire tier after Dragonite while it's mixed attacking set has some really impressive coverage.

Bisharp to A+
I'm not entirely sold on Bisharp in A+, but it is a rather solid Pokemon. It 50/50s a lot of Pokemon like it does in OU, but in my experience it's coverage just wasn't quite as good as it is in OU. Could just be me, but I'd like Bisharp in A rather than A+ personally.

Dragonite for Suspect
Pls ban

Lopunny for A or A+
I honestly haven't seen it at all on the ladder, but in theory it should be impressive in this dark/ghost/steel heavy metagame. I'd like to test it a bit on the ladder a little, but in theory it seems like a great A+ Pokemon and has the ability to run numerous types based on it's coverage or defensive needs.
 

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