What about using dragon pulse over draco meteor? Sure, you lose some power, but you're not forced to switch after using your STAB attack. Just food for thought, otherwise the set looks very interesting. You could also run Fire Blast in place of superpower, giving you coverage against everything but heatran.
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Hydreigon
- Thread starter Vemane
- Start date
Heatran is more common than any other steel right now because it sponges the common OP moves like Draco Meteor, Hurricane and Fire Blast, so hitting it should be a big priority. Tyranitar is also a common switch-in to Hydre because of its titanic SpD in sandstorm and its ability to hit back or set up Stealth Rock, so Superpower takes care of that as well. You probably know that tinkerbell sets prefer running Leaf Storm over Giga Drain, and that is because of the sheer power of the move. It's even better with Hydreigon because she has a bigger SpA stat and Draco Meteor is resisted only by steels. I think it is more important to be able to hit hard in one shot than to be able to hit repeatedly in this metagame.
EDIT: Another great reason for running Superpower over Fire Blast would be the ability to 2HKO Blissey. Draco Meteor and Superpower also form a very good combo because neither reduces the power of the other and each move hits like a truck, giving Hydre the power to 2HKO a lot of Pokemon, something that would not be possible with Fire Blast because of the SpA drops from Draco Meteor.
Taunt is more than viable over T-wave, since Hydre switch-ins will be Blissey, Ferro, Skarmory and the sort, and they can't even touch Hydre after a taunt. Then you switch into appropriate counter and regain momentum.
EDIT: Another great reason for running Superpower over Fire Blast would be the ability to 2HKO Blissey. Draco Meteor and Superpower also form a very good combo because neither reduces the power of the other and each move hits like a truck, giving Hydre the power to 2HKO a lot of Pokemon, something that would not be possible with Fire Blast because of the SpA drops from Draco Meteor.
Taunt is more than viable over T-wave, since Hydre switch-ins will be Blissey, Ferro, Skarmory and the sort, and they can't even touch Hydre after a taunt. Then you switch into appropriate counter and regain momentum.
We have Earth Power for Heatran now too though! I think a Specs/Expert Belt or LO set with Draco Meteor, Earth Power, Fire Blast, and Dark Pulse could be really good! Earth Power is a MUCH safer way to get rid of Heatran compared to Focus miss. Besides something like Tyranitar, I can't think of many things you'd prefer Focus Blast for...
Nyktos
Custom Loser Title
Hydreigon already got Earth Power.
Yea, tell me something I don't know. Dark Pulse and Earth Power weren't legal as a combination though, for your information! It's nice to see that it'll be able to smash Heatran, Ferrothorn, Jellicent, etc. I say that we leave the Blissey killing to another pokemon.
Well, what about Haxorus?It has 1 less base point of speed, but it's usually scarfed. Scarfed outrage is physical eliminating the SpD. EV aspect out of the equation. But for a switch in, that is a really well thought out set.
I'm not sure what you mean? Haxorus is a bad switch-in, it would get OHKO'd by Draco Meteor. What I meant is that there is no Pokemon (aside from Chansey) that can come in on Hydreigon without setting them self up for a OHKO or 2HKO.
With the rise of Technibreloom with Mach Punch, I don't see Hydreigon having a lot of fun
It'll be an impediment, sure, but Techniloom cannot switch in at all. Hydreigon's job of switching in, nuking something, and switching out will remain unhindered. Base 98 speed has been easily revenged since BW1.
When Techniloom has even the slightest chance of switching into Hydreigon safely, let me know. Techniloom is a check to Hydra, but only a check, and not enough of an issue (IMHO) to make Hydreigon an unattractive option.
All these posts about Superpower Hydreigon are using minimal Atk. EVs. What about using the onsite Mixed set's spread? Is there much that it would get outsped by without max Speed? 104 Atk LO Superpower also does work on all that stuff even moreso. The loss in SpA is minimal. Maybe something like:
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive/Hasty
EVs: 104 Atk / 240 SpA / 164 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
Just putting the idea of Atk investment out there. Also, these moves are pretty close to optimal: DM and Superpower are pretty mandatory, the calcs show that Fire Blast is also very useful for the high chance to OHKO Scizor and other stuff even in rain, and Dark Pulse provides a STAB that doesn't lower stats or have imperfect accuracy. It also takes Slowbro down no matter what, so that's nice. If Dark Pulse's coverage is unneeded on your team, U-turn is a good potential replacement. Earth Power is less necessary with Superpower because of the overlapping coverage in addition to how Heatran and Tyranitar are already handled. Surf is in the same boat most of the time, really. Thoughts on Atk investment and/or move choice?
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Nature: Naive/Hasty
EVs: 104 Atk / 240 SpA / 164 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Superpower
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
Just putting the idea of Atk investment out there. Also, these moves are pretty close to optimal: DM and Superpower are pretty mandatory, the calcs show that Fire Blast is also very useful for the high chance to OHKO Scizor and other stuff even in rain, and Dark Pulse provides a STAB that doesn't lower stats or have imperfect accuracy. It also takes Slowbro down no matter what, so that's nice. If Dark Pulse's coverage is unneeded on your team, U-turn is a good potential replacement. Earth Power is less necessary with Superpower because of the overlapping coverage in addition to how Heatran and Tyranitar are already handled. Surf is in the same boat most of the time, really. Thoughts on Atk investment and/or move choice?
I just ran a quick damage calc and I don't see how additional attack investment gets any important KO's. I currently run just 4 attack EV's and it's enough to OHKO Tyranitar (non chople of course), and heatran will be 2HKO'd by Superpower either way. Honestly the OHKO on TTar is the main issue for me....I'd have to see some sexy numbers to convince me to run more attack ev's.
104 Atk lets Hydreigon have a chance at a 2HKO on Chansey after SR with Superpower (~25% chance). Otherwise it really only needs 24 Atk EVs to score a 2HKO on Jirachi in Rain with EQ. If you are not running EQ, than it does not need any Atk EVs to 2HKO Blissey and Heatran (12 Atk EVs if Heatran has Protect). Even with min Atk, Hydreigon easily 2HKOs Eviolite Chansey after 2 turns of SR / SR + Spikes (75% health), so you might as well simply go max SpA / max Spe.
I've found Hydreigon to be an excellent stallbreaker. A set of Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Super Power/Roost backed by 64 Atk, 252 SpA and 192 Spe EVs. I guess if the extra attack isn't all that necessary, I could add more EVs into HP. I use Mild nature, because you'd generally switch Hydre into a special move it resists. Immunity to spikes and neutrality to SR keeps it going against stall. It can take most stallmons one-to-one, with the exceptions being Tentacruel and maybe Chansey. The set works a lot like the stallbreaker mence set, except it's neutral to stealth rock, it's not 4x weak to ice, it's bulkier, and it isn't forced to use brick break.
MCG93, I love the idea of a Celebi-like set with Thunder Wave and Roost, but my biggest problem with it is the Def drop of Super Power. Sure, you might take out the unsuspecting Heatran or Tyranitar that switches into your Draco Meteor, but then you're left with a Pokemon who's crippled DEFENSIVELY as well as offensively. Celebi could always threaten with Thunder Wave after a Leaf Storm, but if you Super Power, something can easily come in and threaten to OHKO after your defence is lowered. This means that you're basically giving something one free turn of set up, and it makes me wary. Also, Celebi's bulk of 404/236/236 is MUCH nicer than 383/216/216. Have you done any testing with this set?
How do you deal with bulky water pokemon?? Won't you need a stab Dark Pulse???
I have tested this set, and the biggest problem with thunder wave is that it doesn't do much harm to the usual switch ins to Hydreigon. Blissey, Skarmory, Heatran and the like are hit harder by taunt than by T-wave, and they can do nothing in return while you roost away or fire devastating blows. Celebi's switch ins are much greater in number, and a good proportion of them hate being paralyzed, and that's why the tinkerbell set works.
Advantages Hydreigon has over Celebi are immunity to spikes and about half as many weaknesses. Hydreigon also has two immunities, sports much more power and has a better 140 base power move that is harder to switch into. As for the problem with Superpower's DEF drop, it is a drawback in exchange for much more power. Sure, they can switch a more powerful Pokemon to try to take on Hydreigon, but isn't that the idea behind revenge killers? Even Celebi will be forced out by faster U-turners, but that doesn't mean you don't have something else to tank the hit. The choice between T-wave and Taunt is yours to make, but Hydreigon is built more like a pivoting stallbreaker than a tinkerbell. You could, however, buff up its defenses and give it similar role, but that doesn't change the fact that T-wave does little to nothing to Skarmory and Hydreigon's weaknesses are usually carried by faster offensive Pokemon.
The other day I saw a Hydreigon with Life Orb with Roost. It was annoying to face with my stall.
So would you say something like, maybe...
Hydreigon@Leftovers
Nature: Modest
252 HP/4 SP. ATK/252 SPD.
Taunt
Roost
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast/Focus Blast
Or maybe drop roost for a coverage move?
I personally like to go mixed with Superpower, but that's just me. Go with Fire Blast; it has overall better utility and a chance of actually hitting. You just need to be able to cover Heatran, Blissey and maybe Tyranitar, and you're good. I don't think even Gastrodon can tank hits fast enough from Modest Hydreigon. Need to do a calc though. Anyway, use Life Orb over Lefties because that's the primary reason Roost is there. Plus, you'll need the added power.
I like it. Taunt fits a poke like Hydreigon very nicely.
After hearing some thoughts on Hydregion using a Tinkerbell-esque set, I came up with this set, and after testing it, it works very well.
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
252 HP/ 66 SAtk / 140 SDef / 52 Spd
Taunt
Roost
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power / Flamethrower / U-turn
Works great against Stall and Balanced, Taunt prevents set-up, hazards, status, etc. and cripples many switch ins to Hydregion (Skarmory, Blissey, etc.) Roost keeps you healthy, Dragon Pulse for STAB and good damage all around. The last move is for coverage, or momentum if you like U-turn, which is neat since you can Taunt Blissey coming in and U-turn out to something like Terrakion without fear of being subjected to status.
You can use a more offensive spread, but with this you are never 2HKO'd by Scarf Poiltoed's Ice Beam and never 2HKO'd by Scarf Thundurus-T's Hidden Power Ice (Focus Blast hurts, but you still aren't OHKO'd). You also beat Life Orb Starmie one on one with this spread. 52 Speed nets you that magic 245 number.
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
252 HP/ 66 SAtk / 140 SDef / 52 Spd
Taunt
Roost
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power / Flamethrower / U-turn
Works great against Stall and Balanced, Taunt prevents set-up, hazards, status, etc. and cripples many switch ins to Hydregion (Skarmory, Blissey, etc.) Roost keeps you healthy, Dragon Pulse for STAB and good damage all around. The last move is for coverage, or momentum if you like U-turn, which is neat since you can Taunt Blissey coming in and U-turn out to something like Terrakion without fear of being subjected to status.
You can use a more offensive spread, but with this you are never 2HKO'd by Scarf Poiltoed's Ice Beam and never 2HKO'd by Scarf Thundurus-T's Hidden Power Ice (Focus Blast hurts, but you still aren't OHKO'd). You also beat Life Orb Starmie one on one with this spread. 52 Speed nets you that magic 245 number.