I really have to try out this set, it looks interesting and useful. :)
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Hydreigon
- Thread starter Vemane
- Start date
Shouting, I love that Hydreigon set. I run max speed Timid just because it allows you to drill Pokemon around your same speed range that are frailer. As long as you aren't expecting a monster wall breaker it's actually a fantastic set. I think my spread was 100 HP / 156 SpA / 252 Spe Timid. I might have HP and SpA backwards I can't remember. With Roost, underrated bulk, and cool typing, I don't think you need 252 HP EVs. I ran enough HP to comfortably beat Ferrothorn that run Gyro Ball. Earth Power is in my opinion the right coverage move because you don't need Tyranitar gone immediately because you aren't Pursuit bait, you stomp on Bronzong and Skarmory who wall the Dragon / Ground combo, you want to hit Jirachi hard regardless of the weather, Heatran is annoying, and Scizor is easy to wall.
Overall Taunt + Roost on Hydreigon is so awesome against any defensively based team and you all should try it out!
Edit: I think Gyro Ball from standard Ferrothorn does between 35-45%, so you can easily stall if out of PP, at which point it poses absolutely no threat to you. Definitely think it will get an analysis at some point
Overall Taunt + Roost on Hydreigon is so awesome against any defensively based team and you all should try it out!
Edit: I think Gyro Ball from standard Ferrothorn does between 35-45%, so you can easily stall if out of PP, at which point it poses absolutely no threat to you. Definitely think it will get an analysis at some point
I'm glad someone sees the greatness of the set! It is very good against common cores on balanced teams, such as that Amoongus, Slowbro, Heatran nonsense going on right now. And I agree, it's typing is so unique and underrated. Resistances to Grass, Ghost, Dark, Electric, Water, Fire,and a psychic and ground immunity.
I sometimes do wish for max speed, but with max speed you are hit more by Gyro Ball (to the extent of which I do not know; it may only be a little bit) if only for things like Haxrous and SubToxic Gliscor (who can't touch Hydregion). If I were to put any more speed, it would probably only to outspeed Lucario so you can smack it with Earth Power or taunt SubToxic Gliscor before is poisons you. I think this set might actually warrant an analysis, in the meantime though, I'll continue to use it.
I sometimes do wish for max speed, but with max speed you are hit more by Gyro Ball (to the extent of which I do not know; it may only be a little bit) if only for things like Haxrous and SubToxic Gliscor (who can't touch Hydregion). If I were to put any more speed, it would probably only to outspeed Lucario so you can smack it with Earth Power or taunt SubToxic Gliscor before is poisons you. I think this set might actually warrant an analysis, in the meantime though, I'll continue to use it.
Shouting, I use a similar EV spread, but with 252 HP/72 Def/64 SpAtk/72 SpDef/48 Spe, and one of the things it lets me do is stall out Choice Band Mamoswine's Ice Shard. Do you find that going SpDef over Def generally yields good results?
Also, how often do you find yourself really using Earth Power, and on what?
Also, how often do you find yourself really using Earth Power, and on what?
Yes, S.Def is generally better than Physcial Defensive in my opinion because nearly everything that Hydregion resists is a special move (Surf, Fire Blast, Giga Drain, Thunderbolt, etc.) meanwhile Hydregion's weaknesses are all pretty much physical (with the exception of Ice, which can go either way.) Even with 252 HP you can survive a lot of Choice Scarf U-turns from stuff like Landorus.
Earth Power and Flamethrower are both viable because Flamethrower hits Scizor, which forces you out, but you can catch it with Earth Power and limit it's switch-ins because it doesn't have recovery (generally). Flamethrower would also help with Skarmory of course, But a taunted Skarmory is easy pickings. Flamethrower also has a slight power edge against steels in general. Many things you'd hit with Flamethrower, like Ferrothorn and Forretress, can't really do anything after a taunt so they really aren't an issue.
The reason why I believe Earth Power is superior because it hits Ninetails, and Heatran for good damage. As well as Tyranitar. (as Friar said, you don't need to use Focus Blast or Superpower because you resist pursuit) From my experience, Heatran is usually OHKO'd by Earth Power after switching into Dragon Pulse, so it can be an effective lure. Perhaps the biggest reason why I think Earth Power is better is because of Jirachi. In Rain, Jirachi is going to laugh at any fire attack in general. If you are packing Flamthrower, you will not be able to break it's Sub after it Calm Minds, which with Earth Power you always will. So really, Earth Power is more effective and has more utility overall.
His stat distribution is amazing, I have no clue what you are talking about. Hydreigon is not a sweeper, he is either a Wallbreaker or a Stallbreaker and can even be used as a Revenge-Killer and Scout with a Choice Scarf and U-Turn. His good defenses and great resistances and immunities give him bulk that is superior to pretty much any other wallbreaker in the OU tier.
I've been running the bulky hydra set with lefties and the moves taunt, roost, dragon pulse and fire blast and i've found it to be pretty effective so far. pretty much anything that tries to wall it or relies on set-up is stopped cold by this set. there are some things that this form of hydreigon is worthless against, but being able to laugh in the face of stuff like blissey as you force her to use her piss weak attacks against you is just priceless. I'm partnering him with toxicroak, and they make a good team.
I also think Hydreigon has potential in its bulkier, less offensive forms.
How about combining St(W)allbreaker with status platform?
I want to test this out but I haven't worked out EVs yet.
Modest/Calm Hydreigon@Leftovers
~Taunt
~Substitute
~DragonBreath
~Roost
Taunt is to shutdown spike-stacking, recovery or phazing so walls can be worn down effectively.
Substitute is the great scouting move as usual: protects Hydre from revenge kills and allows it to attack a faster opponent at least once before being forced out.
DragonBreath is a weaker option compared to Dragon Pulse but it has a ton of PP and a nifty 30% paralysis chance. Potential checks might find themselves dominated if they get haxed.
And of course Roost is great on Hydreigon, providing recovery without loss of its ground immunity.
Hydreigon can run an identical set to "SwiftNite" but I think its higher speed, access to Taunt, and preference for Special Attacks should be leveraged. But I have to work out the power, bulk and speed levels I want to hit. Any suggestions?
How about combining St(W)allbreaker with status platform?
I want to test this out but I haven't worked out EVs yet.
Modest/Calm Hydreigon@Leftovers
~Taunt
~Substitute
~DragonBreath
~Roost
Taunt is to shutdown spike-stacking, recovery or phazing so walls can be worn down effectively.
Substitute is the great scouting move as usual: protects Hydre from revenge kills and allows it to attack a faster opponent at least once before being forced out.
DragonBreath is a weaker option compared to Dragon Pulse but it has a ton of PP and a nifty 30% paralysis chance. Potential checks might find themselves dominated if they get haxed.
And of course Roost is great on Hydreigon, providing recovery without loss of its ground immunity.
Hydreigon can run an identical set to "SwiftNite" but I think its higher speed, access to Taunt, and preference for Special Attacks should be leveraged. But I have to work out the power, bulk and speed levels I want to hit. Any suggestions?
Being weak to Fighting, Bug, Ice and Dragon - all common attacks- (with resistances to Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Psychic, Ground, Ghost) is not the best Pokemon for defensive purpose
I have to say that this is an amazing set and having tried it out, I think it could well be Hydreigon's best set in the current metagame. I have to say, I think Earth Power is the undisputed best option i the fourth slot unless you are running sun and whike this Hydreigon is excellent on weatherless teams for it's resistance to water, fire, grass and electric (plus a ground immunity) it also slots in excellently on weather teams, given it's ability to check many common threats.
I'd say otherwise. Anything in the metagame that would have these attacks types are fairly predictable sets. I've been using a core of Heatran, Hydreigon, and Skarmbliss and finding his substitute set very fitting.
Do you think Hydreigon can pull of a Torment set like Heatran? Its stats are not too shabby and they come with some nifty resistances, albeit not as numerous as Heatran has. Immunity to spikes is a huge plus, taking sandstorm damage not so.
It would look something like this:
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 216 (S)Def / 52 Spd (faster than Jolly Tyranitar)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) or Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
EVs: 240 HP / 236 (S)Def / 32 Spd (faster than Timid Politoed)
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Torment
- Protect
- Substitute
That's the standard layout for a Torment set. Like Heatran, Toxic(-Spike) support is very appreciated and one should have a decent answer to other Heatrans (with is mandatory anyway, if you ask me). Unlike Heatran, you probably should bring along a magnet to get rid of steel types.
Hydreigon has quite a few options to differenciate itself from Heatran as well as a few more conventional moves:
I know, that it may sound heretical to go full-on stall with such a offensiv beast like Hydreigon, but the potential is there. A reliable way to recover is certainly something Heatran is lacking. But what really sound interesting is Reflect and Snarl. You can actively cut the damage of the opponent to the point they can't break your subs anymore and provide valuable team support.
What's your opinion this? Is it worth something or is it just another more or less useless gimmick?
It would look something like this:
Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 240 HP / 216 (S)Def / 52 Spd (faster than Jolly Tyranitar)
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) or Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
EVs: 240 HP / 236 (S)Def / 32 Spd (faster than Timid Politoed)
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Torment
- Protect
- Substitute
That's the standard layout for a Torment set. Like Heatran, Toxic(-Spike) support is very appreciated and one should have a decent answer to other Heatrans (with is mandatory anyway, if you ask me). Unlike Heatran, you probably should bring along a magnet to get rid of steel types.
Hydreigon has quite a few options to differenciate itself from Heatran as well as a few more conventional moves:
Dragon Pulse
Roost
Taunt
Snarl
Reflect
Roost
Taunt
Snarl
Reflect
What's your opinion this? Is it worth something or is it just another more or less useless gimmick?
Seems interesting, and potentially useful. You'd really want toxic spikes support with this. Roost would make it useful, but you'd have to be careful of that dragon weakness...
With all due respect, using Hydreigon for its defensive prowess is like watching porn for the script, it just isn't worth it if you aren't gonna masturbate to it. Wait, that doesn't sound right...
Jokes aside, if you plan on using Hydreigon similarly to Heatran, you have to focus on the things it has that Tran doesn't, that is, immunity to Spikes, STAB in Dragon moves and most of all, Roost, if not, you should ask yourself 'is it really worth it, or isn't it just better to use TormenTran?'
It's still a nice idea and it certainly could work...
Jokes aside, if you plan on using Hydreigon similarly to Heatran, you have to focus on the things it has that Tran doesn't, that is, immunity to Spikes, STAB in Dragon moves and most of all, Roost, if not, you should ask yourself 'is it really worth it, or isn't it just better to use TormenTran?'
It's still a nice idea and it certainly could work...
okay I tried the tauntdreigon mentioned and it is really incredible, because it shuts down common counters to it and it is one of the best rotom switch-ins i tried, however while testing, i noticed that most switch ins tries to abuse that they are faster and carry either u-turn or strong dragon stab attacks. With this, I'm not sure if you can call tormentdreigon really useful. While taunt prevents set-ups or similar, torment use is limited, especially since u-turn blocks it.
As long as you can Roost off the damage, a bulky Tormentor can be a beautiful thing. I need to think on this one and give it a try...
This is why I think that a way to paralyze is nice on slower, more bulky Hydreigon. If you paralyze a check as it switches in or from behind a sub, you greatly limit its effectiveness against Hydreigon later in the match. But it's hard to have all the moves you'd like (4MSS). DragonBreath is 60BP but I like the 30% paralysis risk to opposing Pokemon. It probably deserves a mention whenever Dragon Pulse is used and the aim isn't all-out offense.