I made it to the Top 50 on the Smogon Ladder so it Must be Good ;)

travisurfer

Ok, so these titles always seem to grab more attention so I figured I'd use one of them for once. I peeked at 47th on the OU ladder today if anyone cares and I'm not sure how much "standard play" I'll engage in from here on out so I decided to share my team with the rest of Smogon.

Anyway, here's the basic goal of the team:
The goal of this team is to immediately take control of the match with my anti-lead Heatran. Then, Vaporeon, Heatran, and Forretress generally stall to wear down my opponent's walls and get Toxic Spikes on the playing field. Finally, I generally try to open up an oppurtunity for either Jirachi to start Calm Minding or Azelf to sweep. I generally save Dragonite until late game although I do tend to abuse his Ground immunity to setup for a midgame sweep at times.

heatran.png
@Choice Scarf
20 HP/252 SpAtk/236 Spe
Modest-Flash Fire
~Fire Blast
~Earthpower
~Hidden Power Ice
~Stealth Rock
This lead has really been key to this team. With a Choice Scarf and Modest nature, it is able to outspeed nearly every lead. However, because Heatran counters so many of the other leads, I can simply use Stealth Rock and immediately take control of the match. In late game, it can really turn things around thanks to his ability to revenge kill Garchomp and Lucario while still being able to take some hits. Also, due to it's typing, it forms the first part of an amazing wall combination between Vaporeon, Forretress, and, of course, Heatran.

vaporeon.png
@Leftovers
188 HP/252 Def/68 SpAtk
Bold-Water Absorb
~Surf
~Hidden Power Electric
~Wish
~Protect
Vaporeon is extremely standard nowadays but I have been using it since the beginning of D/P to great success. Thanks to Heatran, Vaporeon has no trouble switching in early to absorb Surfs and using Wish to setup a sweep. I really tend to rely a lot on Vaporeon as it is my best mixed walls and counters oh so many threats including Mixape and Garchomp to name a few of the most notable. Unfortunately, I do not have an Electric resist, so, if Jirachi is unable to switch in, Vaporeon often takes the hit and attempts to keep the game in my favor.

forretress.png
@Leftovers
252 HP/162 Atk/96 Def
Relaxed-Sturdy
~Toxic Spikes
~Rapid Spin
~Gyro Ball
~Explosion
Forretress is the third wheel of my defensive core. Thanks to it's one weakness, Fire, it is able to draw out plenty of those types of attacks to either boost Heatran with Flashfire or have Vaporeon switch in with impunity. Besides it's massive bulk, I mainly have Forretress here soley for Toxic Spikes which really make the opponent consider each and every move they make with the poison damage compounding. This often works well with Wish/Protect Vaporeon eliminating some of the bigger threats. I probably don't need to run as much Attack here but I want to be sure that Gyro Ball and Explosion still make an impact on the opponent regardless. As for Leftovers, I used to run Shedshell to escape Magnezone but I have no real counter for that magnet thing so I generally just get some Spikes up and Explode on it to help keep it in check.

azelf.png
@Leftovers
6 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
Timid-Levitate
~Nasty Plot
~Hidden Power Fight
~Shadow Ball
~Taunt
Now, I know this seems extremely wierd but it makes for a great way to clear the path for a Jirachi sweep. The famed Ghost/Fight combination hits everything neutral while hitting supereffective on Cresselia, Tyanitar, and Blissey most notably. Taunt is truly invaluable seeing as it makes this little elf able to break down the walls with impunity and to further my control of the game. Even without Jirachi, this still makes a huge impact on the game by itself and helps me revenge kill some of the faster pokes in today's metagame.

jirachi.png
@Leftovers
252 HP/80 SpAtk/176 Spe
Modest-Serene Grace
~Calm Mind
~Psychic
~Grass Knot
~Substitute
Calm Mind Jirachi is severely underrated imo as it has the ability to stall, which is a huge plus when running Toxic Spikes, and can set for a sweep even against the best special wall in the game, Blissey. Aside from it's general bulkiness, Jirachi is the third steel type on my team which really makes Garchomp's Outrages into oppurtunities to take it out and helps deal with Deoxys-e and other Calm Minders.

dragonite.png
@Yache Berry
56 HP/252 Atk/200 Spe
Jolly-Inner Focus
~Dragon Dance
~Outrage
~Fire Punch
~Earthquake
Dragonite is severely underrated in today's metagame once he gets setup but, it is often a very difficult task to pull off with Deoxys-e and Scarfgar rampant. I generally save Dragonite until late game to help clean up what residual damage, Azelf, and Jirachi have left behind. I've considered maxing Spe to help outspeed or tie a few other threats like max speed Gyarados but the extra HP allows me to survive an Ice Beam from Deoxys when Stealth Rock is in play and OHKO it back with Outrage so I've left it as is.

Well, there's my team. It has been by far the most successful team I've ever used despite its few flaws. By taking control of the match at the beginning, I have often found myself able to carry that momentum and setup to pressure the opponent for the win. This is clearly an offensive team in that sense but it can still stall with Toxic Spikes if need be which has also proven invaluable. I ask that you feel free to rate this team as you see fit and enjoy the new Smogon ladder.
 
Not to disappoint you but the Smogon ladder hasn't even been up for a day lol
 
I see big gyarados issues here, as you don't have any electric or even rock moves here. basically, your only way around this is foretress's explosion, as he's the only one who can take a big hit after gyarados has dd'd. the way I see it, once forry is gone, gyarados will smash holes in this team easily, and ddLO gyara 2HKO's forry anyways, which means he has to come in. so basically every time gyarados comes in, he could easily get a kill. for this I recommend adding hp electric over ice beam on vaporeon, as garchomp is dealt with already to an extent by foretress once he gets locked into outrage. if you feel like you absolutely need the insurance, I'd lose protect, as your gyarados issues seem kinda big.
 
I like this team. Normally I don't like leading with heatrans as it reveals your team's fire immunity too early on. However, you don't have much else that can lead. I can see gengar giving you some problems, but those can easily be played around. Lastly, to fix the gyarados problem, you could replace grass knot on jirachi with charge beam/thunder. I would personally prefer charge beam for the serene grace boosted side effect. You wouldn't be able to one shot pert anymore, making it easier to phaze you, but that would just allow pert to rack up more poison damage.
 
I agree with Stathakis, DD Gyarados can completely manhandle your team. You have no counter for it, and no way to revenge kill it.

Get HP Electric on Vaporeon to remedy this problem, and keep Vaporeon very healthy. I would almost forgoe Ice Beam so you can better heal yourself.
 
Any noob with insane luck hax can get on Smogon Top 50. Seriously, not that you're a noob, but I'm just pointing that out.

I think that Stealth Rock on a Scarf Heatran will be your downfall. Maybe try a simple Leftovers set in order to prevent other pokemon from setting up on you? But, I can see the advantages so you can keep the Scarf Heatran the way it is.

DD Gyarados destroys this team. HP Electric on Vappy solves that problem.

May I also suggest DD Bulky Roost Salamence over Dragonite? Simply to counter Heracross and some Lucario better with Intimidate. But either way is fine.

Decent team overall.
 
chaos said:
Not to disappoint you but the Smogon ladder hasn't even been up for a day lol
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lol, yeah. it was just for kicks seeing all of these types of titles around. the team was still good on the official server so i figured i'd post it anyway as one of my last teams of standardness. :)
Stathakis said:
I see big gyarados issues here, as you don't have any electric or even rock moves here. basically, your only way around this is foretress's explosion, as he's the only one who can take a big hit after gyarados has dd'd. the way I see it, once forry is gone, gyarados will smash holes in this team easily, and ddLO gyara 2HKO's forry anyways, which means he has to come in. so basically every time gyarados comes in, he could easily get a kill. for this I recommend adding hp electric over ice beam on vaporeon, as garchomp is dealt with already to an extent by foretress once he gets locked into outrage. if you feel like you absolutely need the insurance, I'd lose protect, as your gyarados issues seem kinda big.
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Yes, I do see your point. Here is how I generally prefer one of the worst case Gyarados situations. Seeing as Gyarados normally comes out of the opponents team early to counter Heatran, it normally comes in when everything is at full health. Say, Heatran uses Stealth Rock on turn one and Gyarados switches in unscathed and I promptly switch to Vaporeon where Gyarados either Taunts or Dragon Dances. Let's assume he uses Dragon Dance as that is the worst case scenario.
Gyarados: 100% +1 Atk +1 Spe
Vaporeon: 100%
Vaporeon uses Ice Beam and averages 25% to the new standard 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe Gyarados.
Gyarados either Dragon Dances, Taunts, or uses Earthquake/Stone Edge if it has it. Say it uses Earthquake. This averages 46% to Vaporeon if Gyarados has a Life Orb(most do) and then Leftovers takes place on Vapy.
Gyarados: 65% +1 Atk +1 Spe
Vaporeon: 60%
Repeating this same step again.
Gyarados: 30% +1 Atk +1 Spe
Vaporeon: 20%
And again.
Gyarados: 20% +1 Atk +1 Spe
Vaporeon: 0%
Ok, so Vaporeon is now gone but, Gyarados only has 20% health left meaning that it can't really do much more in this match when you consider that Gyarados can only "safely" switch in on Heatran in some cases(this offensive Gyarados takes 35% from a non Flash Fire Heatran Fire Blast) and it also takes 25% if Stealth Rock is up.
Basically, all this proves is that this team does have an embarassing Gyarados weak as you pointed out but it is definitely manageble seeing as, at it's best, Gyarados will only be able to take out two of my pokes at a maximum. If I play smart, most threats can be eliminated. With that said however, I may use HP Electric as the extra insurance is always nice to have.

EDITS:
Skiddle: Yes, Gyarados could potentially manhandle my team, but with countless battles with this team, I have yet to have a Gyarados take out more than 2 pokes from my team. As I said above, I may try HP: Electric although for some reason, hitting neutrally with Ice Beam has been enough in every battle yet. I believe I battled you a few times today. Did I not?
Stalefish: lol, I am not a noob but I do see your point. The thread title was merely there to mock the other titles of people wanting help whilst simultaneously bragging about how good their team is. Please note that not everyone does this and I am simply posting my team to share it with others and attempt to improve it. Scarf Heatran is a complete necessity because it prevents me from getting destroyed by Lucario, Azelf, Garchomp, Infernape, Heatran, and other similar sweepers. Stealth Rock is there soley to break sashes and to help deal damage to Zapdos which tears through my team much more easily than any Gyarados.
 
just a thought, what about running HP electric heatran, its unexpected and would deal with gyarados and a few other leads, yanmega, ninjask, and crobat, which is appearing a lot recently. just a thought and as it is unexpected it might acctually pay off.
 
phalanx said:
just a thought, what about running HP electric heatran, its unexpected and would deal with gyarados and a few other leads, yanmega, ninjask, and crobat, which is appearing a lot recently. just a thought and as it is unexpected it might acctually pay off.
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That is a good idea, but what would I do to Garchomp if Toxic Spikes aren't out then?
 
depends, you have a levitater and a couple of steels, i see more CB chomps so use those to your advantage, that's what i would do.
 
Pretty much every Garchomp has Yache Berry nowadays, so I would just Surf it, and then switch to one of your steels on the obvious Outrage. To beat Garchomp, you have to use prediction. Most players will swords dance greedily, and then you can hit them pretty hard. When they go to attack you, switch to a resist/immune and kill them off.

On my main team, Garchomps always come in on heatran, and swords dance. So, I dragon pulse for about 70% damage. They freak out and Earthquake as I send in Gengar, and then I finish them off. There isn't really a counter for Garchomp so you have to predict to beat it. Seriously, Gyarados is MUCH more of a threat to this team than Garchomp, so just heed my advice and get HP Electric.
 
phalanx said:
depends, you have a levitater and a couple of steels, i see more CB chomps so use those to your advantage, that's what i would do.
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I've seen probably 1 CB Chomp out of every 10 Yache Chomps...
skiddle said:
Pretty much every Garchomp has Yache Berry nowadays, so I would just Surf it, and then switch to one of your steels on the obvious Outrage. To beat Garchomp, you have to use prediction. Most players will swords dance greedily, and then you can hit them pretty hard. When they go to attack you, switch to a resist/immune and kill them off.

On my main team, Garchomps always come in on heatran, and swords dance. So, I dragon pulse for about 70% damage. They freak out and Earthquake as I send in Gengar, and then I finish them off. There isn't really a counter for Garchomp so you have to predict to beat it. Seriously, Gyarados is MUCH more of a threat to this team than Garchomp, so just heed my advice and get HP Electric.
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Yeah, I don't really worry about Garchomp. They are extremely broken but as long as you have something to outspeed them, they are generally manageable. Toxic Spikes really does go a long way though because, once they get in, the hard part is actually hitting them....

I will definitely try HP Electric on Vapy despite Ice Beam's so far. I can get around Gyarados currently but if I can get around it with more HP than it'll only be for the better.
 
Higher up in the ladder, where I am right now, LO DD Gyarados is on every team, so to get better, you need good counters for it.
 
skiddle said:
Higher up in the ladder, where I am right now, LO DD Gyarados is on every team, so to get better, you need good counters for it.
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Yeah, the higher I got, the more common they became. There's no doubt that it doesn't put me at a disadvantage without HP Electric.
 
If your worried about Blissey paralyzing you/ seismic tossing you to death, use Substitute over Taunt. In case they do attack, you lose less HP, and you save even more if they don't. Maybe you can try making Azelf a bit bulkier and make its subs survive no sp. attack Ice Beam. Like McGar, no?

I would just go max speed timid on Heatran. the extra speed is more helpful and the HP EVs aren't doing anything.

I would also put Ice Beam over Surf on Vaporeon, since you can use Dragonite to set up on non-HP Ice versions(you resist everything else), and even then all you lose is the Yache Berry.
 
Articanus said:
If your worried about Blissey paralyzing you/ seismic tossing you to death, use Substitute over Taunt. In case they do attack, you lose less HP, and you save even more if they don't. Maybe you can try making Azelf a bit bulkier and make its subs survive no sp. attack Ice Beam. Like McGar, no?

I would just go max speed timid on Heatran. the extra speed is more helpful and the HP EVs aren't doing anything.

I would also put Ice Beam over Surf on Vaporeon, since you can use Dragonite to set up on non-HP Ice versions(you resist everything else), and even then all you lose is the Yache Berry.
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That Azelf set sounds interesting. I think that I would go for Flamethrower if I were to drop Taunt though due to it's ability to take out Bronzong and other steels.

I was actually going to with max speed but there were a few times when the extra power of modest and the few HP ev's saved me. I'll definitely test that out though.

Ice Beam could be an option but the extra issues of Mixape and Heatran worry me. What would I do when Deoxys-e comes into play then? I often rely on the Yache Berry to get around that thing because it is nearly impossible to outspeed.
 
Speaking of Mcgar, he looks like he could fit in well in this team. It's a very reliable way of removing Blissey, and his fighting and ghost moves pack a much bigger whallop than Azelf's ever would. Hypnosis is great too.

Use Hasty with 96 ATK / 174 SpA / 240 Spe, and slap an Expert Belt on him. Mcgar will never let you down, although, you'll lose the speed tie with other Gengars.
 
This team has a fresh feel to it. I know that scarftran isn't exactly unique, but I do think that your Forretress shouldn't have explosion. IMO, walls are stallers.
 
skiddle said:
Speaking of Mcgar, he looks like he could fit in well in this team. It's a very reliable way of removing Blissey, and his fighting and ghost moves pack a much bigger whallop than Azelf's ever would. Hypnosis is great too.

Use Hasty with 96 ATK / 174 SpA / 240 Spe, and slap an Expert Belt on him. Mcgar will never let you down, although, you'll lose the speed tie with other Gengars.
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While Azelf does carry HP Fight, the main reason for doing so was in taking out Tyranitar. Jirachi can actually setup on Blissey thanks to 101 HP subs. I do like the way you think though. I'm definitely going to try it out seeing as McGar is always effective and messes up so many teams. I am a bit weary of the speed drop from Azelf though. What do you think?
 
I see a water, ice, and electric special attacker weakness, your team could fall easily to a lapras with blizzard, hydro pump, and thunder
I suggest an electivire instead of azelf
 
travisurfer said:
That Azelf set sounds interesting. I think that I would go for Flamethrower if I were to drop Taunt though due to it's ability to take out Bronzong and other steels.It's your choice dude. I would personally go Psychic/ HP fighting with bulky EVs and pound through opposing psychics with Nasty Plot, or hell, even Calm mind XD

I was actually going to with max speed but there were a few times when the extra power of modest and the few HP ev's saved me. I'll definitely test that out though.Well, it helps out time to time, but wouldn't it be better if it worked most of the time.

Ice Beam could be an option but the extra issues of Mixape and Heatran worry me. What would I do when Deoxys-e comes into play then? I often rely on the Yache Berry to get around that thing because it is nearly impossible to outspeed. Not that either are going to stay in on Vaporeon anyway, but you do have a point. A combination of Deoxys-e and Mixape would easily run through this team. However, when does Infernape get to set up? A "predicted switch" could be the excuse, but that would be your fault, no? The ScarfChomp weakness is more threatening to me than Mixape.
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btw, I got onto the top 50 too. yay us! XD
 
lol, yeah. I've got a nice screen shot of it. ;) I had a nice win streak going too but I'm way too lazy to battle enough to actually be one of the top players. I can beat a few of them, but I simply don't care enough to spend most of my day getting up that high. XD

The only reason I even chose Azelf for this team was to be able to Nasty Plot and use Shadowball on Psychics that would be drawn out. HP Fight complemented that nicely but the 1 point drop in Spe makes max speed Starmie outspeed Azelf. I don't think they're are many other options there because HP Fight catches so many people off-guard.

I'm going to try max-speed Modest Heatran for now and then try a Timid one later on. With that extra speed, there is an oppurtunity to make Heatran bulkier. So much testing to do...
 
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