By the time you get Lucario, which is a Riolu egg, your team will be Lv39-45. You have to train that Riolu around 30 levels to evolve. It's a bit out of the way if you ask me.
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In-game tiers
- Thread starter Mekkah
- Start date
By the time you get Lucario, which is a Riolu egg, your team will be Lv39-45. You have to train that Riolu around 30 levels to evolve. It's a bit out of the way if you ask me.
I've been told you can shove them onto GTS for a few minutes and withdraw them for the evo. So that means that their final forms are pretty easily available as soon as you can get them to 25.
Okay, I'm going to actually try and put every pre-national D/P pokemon into a list (the names just represent power). Not in order. BTW, here's all the possible to use pokemon; Turtwig Zubat Chimchar Geodude Piplup Onix Starly Cranidos Bidoof Shieldon Kricketot Machop Shinx Psyduck Abra Burmy Magikarp Wurmple Budew Glameow Combee Goldeen Pachirisu Barboach Buizel Chingling Cherubi Stunky Shellos Meditite Heracross Aipom Bronzor Drifloon Ponyta Buneary Bonsly Gastly Mime Jr. Happiny Misdreavus Murkrow Cleffa Chatot Skorupi Pichu Croagunk Hoothoot Carnivine Remoraid Spiritomb Gible Finneon Tentacool Munchlax Feebas Unown Riolu Mantyke Wooper Snover Wingull Sneasel Girafarig Uxie Hippopotas Mesprit Azelf Azurill Dialga Palkia
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Uber (Awesome)
Chimchar
Piplup
Turtwig
Starly
Shinx
Shellos
Machop
Bidoof
Buizel
Cranidos
Meditite (I believe you get it very early)
OU (pretty good)
Magikarp
Geodude
Bronzor
Wooper
Dialga/Palkia (makes E4 a breeze)
Ponyta (only other fire in Sinnoh besides nape)
Driftloon
Kricketune (okay for catching pokemon)
Murkrow (annoying to catch)
Mistreavus ("")
Zubat (annoying to train due to lack of power/high base power moves until later on)
Budew ("")
Skunky
BL (Either flawed due to mechanics {like metal coat} or have a bad early/late game)
Abra
Bonsly
Chingling
Glameow
Cleffa (no sure fire way of getting evo due to moon stone)
Pachirisu
Mime Jr.
Shieldon (No offense whatsoever)
Onix (no steelix till v.late due to metal coat)
Wurmple (huge loss of power later on due to lack of support moves)
Aipom (more common than hera)
UU (Only if you don't care about taking a while)
Happiny (refers to wild chansey you can catch)
Azurill
Burmy
Heracross
Munchlax
Wingull
Sneasal
Skorupi
Snover (way too late)
Goldeen
Barbroach
Remoraid
Finneon
Hoothoot
Croagunk
Carnivine
Cherubi
NU (Please don't use these unless your doing a novelty run)
Feebas (LOL)
Spiritomb
Riolu
Gible (essentially comes in egg form considering level)
Unown
Mantyke (Get it near 8th gym and it sucks ass...)
Mespirit
Uxie
Azelf
Chatot
Girafarig
Combee (1/8 chance of female + honey pokemon= not nice)
Limbo (not sure of these)
Tentacool (???)
Pichu (Not sure when you get it)
Psyduck ("")
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Please tell me if I've left stuff out. I'd really like some feed back, since I'm sure I've messed stuff up.
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Uber (Awesome)
Chimchar
Piplup
Turtwig
Starly
Shinx
Shellos
Machop
Bidoof
Buizel
Cranidos
Meditite (I believe you get it very early)
OU (pretty good)
Magikarp
Geodude
Bronzor
Wooper
Dialga/Palkia (makes E4 a breeze)
Ponyta (only other fire in Sinnoh besides nape)
Driftloon
Kricketune (okay for catching pokemon)
Murkrow (annoying to catch)
Mistreavus ("")
Zubat (annoying to train due to lack of power/high base power moves until later on)
Budew ("")
Skunky
BL (Either flawed due to mechanics {like metal coat} or have a bad early/late game)
Abra
Bonsly
Chingling
Glameow
Cleffa (no sure fire way of getting evo due to moon stone)
Pachirisu
Mime Jr.
Shieldon (No offense whatsoever)
Onix (no steelix till v.late due to metal coat)
Wurmple (huge loss of power later on due to lack of support moves)
Aipom (more common than hera)
UU (Only if you don't care about taking a while)
Happiny (refers to wild chansey you can catch)
Azurill
Burmy
Heracross
Munchlax
Wingull
Sneasal
Skorupi
Snover (way too late)
Goldeen
Barbroach
Remoraid
Finneon
Hoothoot
Croagunk
Carnivine
Cherubi
NU (Please don't use these unless your doing a novelty run)
Feebas (LOL)
Spiritomb
Riolu
Gible (essentially comes in egg form considering level)
Unown
Mantyke (Get it near 8th gym and it sucks ass...)
Mespirit
Uxie
Azelf
Chatot
Girafarig
Combee (1/8 chance of female + honey pokemon= not nice)
Limbo (not sure of these)
Tentacool (???)
Pichu (Not sure when you get it)
Psyduck ("")
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Please tell me if I've left stuff out. I'd really like some feed back, since I'm sure I've messed stuff up.
on a personal note i don't think buizel is uber, it's really frail and so if it can't ONKO is basically dead, i prefer more durable stuff that can take many battle in a row before healing.
Driftloon it's really good if you manage to have good timing and arrive at floroma during friday (usually the same day when you start or the next) so basically the week event hold him back (BL for me), on my first playthrought i captured a combee and evolved to vespiqueen, i find it's really worth the effort (gust + gem force + attack order is pretty nice) she can heal hitself (you should mention this) plus she learn toxic by level (i think she can be al least BL).
you forgot to rate buneary btw...
Driftloon it's really good if you manage to have good timing and arrive at floroma during friday (usually the same day when you start or the next) so basically the week event hold him back (BL for me), on my first playthrought i captured a combee and evolved to vespiqueen, i find it's really worth the effort (gust + gem force + attack order is pretty nice) she can heal hitself (you should mention this) plus she learn toxic by level (i think she can be al least BL).
you forgot to rate buneary btw...
Not sure why Tentacool is there. Pichu is in the Trophy Garden, which opens up after the 3rd badge - but Pikachu is also right there.
You can get Psyduck even before you get a badge, but it's rare as hell (something like 2% in the Ravaged Path) and by the time you can easily obtain it, there's other options available..
:/ seems like a waste of good TMs though.
Anyway yeah, Gyara, like in every generation, is a bitch to raise but just amazing once it evolves. OU I think
Anyway yeah, Gyara, like in every generation, is a bitch to raise but just amazing once it evolves. OU I think
Vandom: not bad, and his pick-up ability along the way can be helpful, but it's just the fact that late game, he is just too weak to be used towards the last few badges.
IMO, if Dialga/Palkia is worthy of the OU in-game tier, I think Azelf should deserve it too. It starts with nasty plot, which is extremely useful for the E4, and after one level-up, it learns extrasensory, which is just slightly weaker than psychic, but with a flinch chance (he has high speed too), and 30 PP instead of Psychic's 10 PP. And Azelf is worthy or waiting to use your 1 thunderbolt and fire blast TM. At the very least, he should be in the BL in-game tier.
IMO, if Dialga/Palkia is worthy of the OU in-game tier, I think Azelf should deserve it too. It starts with nasty plot, which is extremely useful for the E4, and after one level-up, it learns extrasensory, which is just slightly weaker than psychic, but with a flinch chance (he has high speed too), and 30 PP instead of Psychic's 10 PP. And Azelf is worthy or waiting to use your 1 thunderbolt and fire blast TM. At the very least, he should be in the BL in-game tier.
I really don't see cranidos being so high up. For starters it's not an amazing pokemon and the fact that it takes effort and makes you go out of your way to go underground and search for the fossil really reduces its usefulness.
Utility usually ranks a pokemon really high and bibarel is the king of this. Able to be gotten very early and it's basically the premiere HM slave. I definitely see it ranking above machop and shellos. There will be more players out there with a bibarel in their team than machop or shellos.
Azelf should probably be moved to BL because it's definitely a decent pokemon for the E4. It's not totally unusable and you don't have to run around chasing it to catch it.
Utility usually ranks a pokemon really high and bibarel is the king of this. Able to be gotten very early and it's basically the premiere HM slave. I definitely see it ranking above machop and shellos. There will be more players out there with a bibarel in their team than machop or shellos.
Azelf should probably be moved to BL because it's definitely a decent pokemon for the E4. It's not totally unusable and you don't have to run around chasing it to catch it.
Also, I love Geodude in the uber category. That may be crazy, but early on, he is a force to be recogned with learning rock polish, rock throw, and magnitute all in the early stages of the game. Plus, you can use the GTS trick to evolve him to a Golem, so that isn't really a problem. Also, yes, he may weaken towards the end of the game, but he makes a great mini HM slave with Rock Smash, Rock Climb, and Strength; which you don't wanna teach any of them to your main pokemon, but golem's still has enough attack power to make him effective in some battles.
I would move Drifloon down a tier, honestly. It gets terrible moves early on (the best attack Drifblim learns before Shadow Ball at 44 (!!) is Ominous Wind at 32 with its lol-worthy 5pp). Before then, you're relying on Gust (FUCKING GUST) and Payback (Spit Up if you really hate yourself). You can teach it Thunder when you can get the TM, but that goes the same for like every Ghost sans Spiritomb.
I tried using it since Drifblim's the coolest looking fucker ever, but I was sad at how late it got Shadow Ball. I beat the Elite Four already and it still doesn't have Explosion :/
It can learn Fly, though. Pretty stylish to fly around on a Drifblim :D
I tried using it since Drifblim's the coolest looking fucker ever, but I was sad at how late it got Shadow Ball. I beat the Elite Four already and it still doesn't have Explosion :/
It can learn Fly, though. Pretty stylish to fly around on a Drifblim :D
I'd like to see if there's a semi-objective definition of "out of the way". I personally don't see evolving Magikarp to Gyarados as too out of the way, especially since Gyarados can make your time investment back by demolishing the E4. On the other hand, leveling a Gible to Garchomp, and Heart Scaling good moves onto it would be a good example of "out of the way".
Dialga and Palkia are ridiculously easy to get. I don't know anyone who's needed to use more than 3 Dusk/Ultra Balls to capture them in-game. Yeah, they come late in the game, but they make the last stretch of the game very easy.
To me, with the abundance of healing items you're able to use (thanks to the tons of money you can earn in D/P), the qualities of a good in-game Pokemon are speed combined with setup. The game boils down to going through puzzles and leveling while doing them - just enough where you can succeed in critical gym battles, a few key Team Galactic fights, and the E4. You can lower your needed levels by compensating for stat differences using boost moves like Dragon Dance or Nasty Plot. Unlike competitive fights, you can use items to heal back any wounds you've taken and then just "sweep".
Dialga and Palkia are ridiculously easy to get. I don't know anyone who's needed to use more than 3 Dusk/Ultra Balls to capture them in-game. Yeah, they come late in the game, but they make the last stretch of the game very easy.
To me, with the abundance of healing items you're able to use (thanks to the tons of money you can earn in D/P), the qualities of a good in-game Pokemon are speed combined with setup. The game boils down to going through puzzles and leveling while doing them - just enough where you can succeed in critical gym battles, a few key Team Galactic fights, and the E4. You can lower your needed levels by compensating for stat differences using boost moves like Dragon Dance or Nasty Plot. Unlike competitive fights, you can use items to heal back any wounds you've taken and then just "sweep".
I would define "out of the way" as the catching and training process involved to make a pokemon good for certain parts of the game. Using gyarados as an example, the magikarp training process to level 20 is far more tedious than training a starly who learns wing attack at level 9. That's a 60BP stab attack at level 9 compared to splash until level 15 and tackle until it evolves. So basically depending on how many pokemon you're training at once, not only magikarp is useless until past the second gym battle, it makes you do more work by having to let it leech exp from your other pokemon. By contrast, starly is very powerful from the moment you catch it.
There's also the matter of pokemon that come at too low a level for parts of the game like gible and riolu. The effort taken to grind on wild pokemon to get them to catch up to your party is considered out of the way.
Finally, pokemon that are hard to find/catch are also considered out of the way. That goes for pokemon like cranidos who I can easily skip, rare encounters like hippopotas and of course the legends because a) they are hard to catch b) most people probably want to soft reset for a good one anyway and c) let's face it they're probably not gonna be as good as the pokemon in your party at the point you catch them. The exception here is probably dialga/palkia which you are forced to catch and helps with the E4.
Also for ingame purposes, pokemon with good stats and strong moves far outclass pokemon with average stats and stat up moves. There's really no reason I should have a pokemon stat up when I can just have one OHKO everything.
I've been playing through the early part of the game recently, and I've discovered the surprising versatility of Kricketune during the first half.
Taking advantage of so many early Pokemon using just Tackle, Kriketot blasted its way with Bide. Once it evolved, I finally had the joyful experience of Fury Cutter, abusing it against the NPCs who sit on their hands so much. It completely obliterated the Grass Gym (OHKO to Roserade on Fury Cutter's fifth repetition), and I gave it Rock Smash to get rid of the endless Bidoof trainers.
Now with Sing and X-Scissor, it's rather handy against the various Dark types Team Galactic hucks at me. I hope I can let it last long enough to help take on the seventh Gym before issuing its pink slip.
Taking advantage of so many early Pokemon using just Tackle, Kriketot blasted its way with Bide. Once it evolved, I finally had the joyful experience of Fury Cutter, abusing it against the NPCs who sit on their hands so much. It completely obliterated the Grass Gym (OHKO to Roserade on Fury Cutter's fifth repetition), and I gave it Rock Smash to get rid of the endless Bidoof trainers.
Now with Sing and X-Scissor, it's rather handy against the various Dark types Team Galactic hucks at me. I hope I can let it last long enough to help take on the seventh Gym before issuing its pink slip.
I've recently been replaying Silver, and using a few different Pokes to what I'd normally go through the game with, with surprisingly good results.
Exeggcute was brilliant for me, just because I had a Red cartridge to hand. You get him just after Bugsy's gym, and he's already got Hypnosis, which is invaluable. Annoyingly, without R/B, you can't evolve him until late into Kanto, but if you do have access to a first gen game, you can just trade him over as early as Ecruteak, give him a Leaf Stone and a Psychic TM and watch him OHKO everything for ages.
Mareep replaced my starter as 'most reliable Poke'. Two great moves in the punches, despite not getting much else why do you need anything else? Massive special attack lets you pummel most things hard.
Eevee was a burden, until I got traded the Water Stone. Suddenly, wow. Massive special attack, takes hits relatively well, and a STAB Surf to round it all off. Admittedly, bar that it doesn't get much (Icy Wind, lol. Also got a RBY Blizzard TM) but when that's killing anything that doesn't resist it, you don't really need much else, to be honest.
Used Sudowoodo for a bit, but he really didn't help much, at all. After getting him, admittedly he's a bit of help in the Ghost gym (Not as much as everything else though) but after that he gets murdered in the Lighthouse, in the sea crossing over to the island, in the Fighting gym, in Jasmine's gym, and by that stage he's woefully underlevelled and had to be dropped.
Exeggcute was brilliant for me, just because I had a Red cartridge to hand. You get him just after Bugsy's gym, and he's already got Hypnosis, which is invaluable. Annoyingly, without R/B, you can't evolve him until late into Kanto, but if you do have access to a first gen game, you can just trade him over as early as Ecruteak, give him a Leaf Stone and a Psychic TM and watch him OHKO everything for ages.
Mareep replaced my starter as 'most reliable Poke'. Two great moves in the punches, despite not getting much else why do you need anything else? Massive special attack lets you pummel most things hard.
Eevee was a burden, until I got traded the Water Stone. Suddenly, wow. Massive special attack, takes hits relatively well, and a STAB Surf to round it all off. Admittedly, bar that it doesn't get much (Icy Wind, lol. Also got a RBY Blizzard TM) but when that's killing anything that doesn't resist it, you don't really need much else, to be honest.
Used Sudowoodo for a bit, but he really didn't help much, at all. After getting him, admittedly he's a bit of help in the Ghost gym (Not as much as everything else though) but after that he gets murdered in the Lighthouse, in the sea crossing over to the island, in the Fighting gym, in Jasmine's gym, and by that stage he's woefully underlevelled and had to be dropped.
If you've got tradeback ability, why not just send it back for Ice Beam? At the very least, Aurora Beam is a capable option for it.
The fire starting pokemon was pretty much always the best ingame because fire pokemon never really showed up until far later than early grass/water pokemon. Gyarados was an awesome ingame pick in every game ever because magikarp, while being an absolute piece of dogshit, evolves fairly early and Gyarados has beast stats. He only got better in D/P. The teams I tended to go through each game with:
R/B:
Charmander
Rattata
Pidgey
Magikarp
Bellsprout
Abra/Pikachu (if I could be arsed to get one early)/Snorlax (if I couldn't be arsed to get either of them, they were always the most painful of the lineup to catch)
Of course I evolved them throughout the game, but had all of them before I fought Misty usually. Led to a very balanced team. I miss Raticate because it was the only starting rodent that didn't suck cock.
G/S:
Cyndaquil
Hoothoot
Bellsprout
Magikarp
Mareep
Usually had an HM bitch here, lotta pokemon ended up here.
Mareep was intense, wish there was an electric pokemon like her in versions before and after that available so early on.
R/S:
Torchic
Magikarp
Seedot
Ralts
Tailow
Usually a tropius HM bitch
I hated this gen. Very few good pokemon early in the game.
D/P:
Chimchar
Starly
Magikarp
Kadabra (didn't catch until after a few gyms, I use a budew here until I get to the rainy route where these guys show up)
Cranidos
Sneasel
I have issues with keeping up in levels in this game, so I generally keep the number of core team members low, especially considering the fact that you need two pokemon to carry all of your HMs if you're traveling. Sneasel is usually my last addition and only because it's a solid dark pokemon with an even more solid evolution that is fairly easy to get and doesn't take much to catch up with the rest of my team. A LV50 weavile will destroy the entire psychic E4's team. Other than starly, who is an absolute gem with a lv9 wing attack, this game also lacks early good pokemon.
R/B:
Charmander
Rattata
Pidgey
Magikarp
Bellsprout
Abra/Pikachu (if I could be arsed to get one early)/Snorlax (if I couldn't be arsed to get either of them, they were always the most painful of the lineup to catch)
Of course I evolved them throughout the game, but had all of them before I fought Misty usually. Led to a very balanced team. I miss Raticate because it was the only starting rodent that didn't suck cock.
G/S:
Cyndaquil
Hoothoot
Bellsprout
Magikarp
Mareep
Usually had an HM bitch here, lotta pokemon ended up here.
Mareep was intense, wish there was an electric pokemon like her in versions before and after that available so early on.
R/S:
Torchic
Magikarp
Seedot
Ralts
Tailow
Usually a tropius HM bitch
I hated this gen. Very few good pokemon early in the game.
D/P:
Chimchar
Starly
Magikarp
Kadabra (didn't catch until after a few gyms, I use a budew here until I get to the rainy route where these guys show up)
Cranidos
Sneasel
I have issues with keeping up in levels in this game, so I generally keep the number of core team members low, especially considering the fact that you need two pokemon to carry all of your HMs if you're traveling. Sneasel is usually my last addition and only because it's a solid dark pokemon with an even more solid evolution that is fairly easy to get and doesn't take much to catch up with the rest of my team. A LV50 weavile will destroy the entire psychic E4's team. Other than starly, who is an absolute gem with a lv9 wing attack, this game also lacks early good pokemon.