• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

In-game tiers

What about Jynx (Smoochum) for GSC, can't you find those at the Ice Cave? She is defintely OU.

Don't count out Exxeggutor too, especially for RBY.

She helps vs Falkner, Claire, and other Gym leaders (like perhaps the RBY Gym leader in the GSC *Erika* if you take the Train to Kanto).

Jynx also works well against some rock types whom are part ground (Like Onyx).
 
@ kietarr
Charmander don't rock in R/B. Fire was a ok type in R/B, but certainly not the best. Besides, for E4, you just a electricity, water and psychic to win all. Charmander does not have much utility, IMO.

Brock : no
Misty: no
Lt.Surge : ok
Erika : Yes, that's provided if u have flamethower. charmander also dies easily to posion.
Sabrina : ok
Koga: not bad, especially yellow where there are only venomoths and venonats.
Blaine: Yes, if u have earthquake.
Giovanni: not much usefulness.

Lorelei (?): no. it's more like a water trainer than an ice trainer.
Bruno: Can kill fighting type with ease
Agatha: yes with earthquake.
Lance: no
Rival: Not much help.

IMO, squirtle is the best starter in R/B. Surf just kill. and learn ice beam which help greatly for Lance.

my 2 cents
 
Erika : Yes, that's provided if u have flamethower. charmander also dies easily to posion.
Click to expand...

It doesn't get Flamethrower until a lot later, but until then Ember is better than nothing. Problem is, Erika isn't much of an achievement to hit SE on: Flying, Fire and Ice are all very available types. Erika is pretty much the easiest gym leader to the huge amount of Pokemon that hit SE on her.

So yeah, Charmander beats the other starters against a gym leader that matters less, but the others win against ones that are actually hard-ish, so he loses out overall...
 
May i ask if the R/B tie includes FR/LG? I ask cos there is a split of attack and sp.atk and the moveset change.

I dont think geodude should be in OU in R/B. Not much help IMO, and does pathetic in most gyms and E4. But however, i never like it, so never use one b4. i might be wrong.
 
Here are some D/P Tiers for In-Game:
Dialga: BL
It is very powerful and it screws the Elite Four, but it really comes too late. It really comes just too late. At least it gets Draco Meteor.

Onix: UU
Onix has the worst attack ever, but it evolves by trading with a really rare item. Wow.

Mespirit/Uxie/Azelf: BL
Same as Dialga, but with worse stats.

Mewtwo: OU
I know that you need to import it, but after you get it, you basically destroy everything. Keep pwning the Elite Four.
 
"It really comes just too late". Isn't it like 5 or 6 badges in, at the same level as your party at the time roughly? I don't think that's too late. I'd keep it OU.

Onix definitely is UU.

The pixies are good enough to probably make up for their tiering, at least Azelf is with Explosion and Nasty Plot. Azelf OU, Mesprit BL, Uxie UU since defense isn't that good in-game.

Mewtwo comes after the game's completion, so under your logic if he's OU then everything else sholud be like Dialga and the pixies.
 
Dialga and the pixies come before the game's completion though, as you can get them after Mt. Coronet and before the Pokemon League. Mewtwo you have to have beaten the E4 and cleared the Sevii islands (I believe) to be obtainable. He's useless ingame as he's the end of the game, unless you just like mashing the E4 again and again, which doesn't really count for game completion anymore.
 
FR/LG and R/B (as well as Y) all are different games and deserve different tier lists.

I used Exeggcute and he's pretty bad overall. When you get him, he's underleveled and only has Hypnosis and Barrage to catch up, both of which are unreliable. When it gets Confusion it becomes more bearable. He's relatively good against Morty's gym (Gengar's Shadow Ball rapes him though), then sucks versus Jasmine, good versus Chuck (resists Poliwrath's STAB = good), then horrid versus Pryce and Claire.

In the meantime your main party is evolving. Exeggcute cannot evolve because you need a Leaf Stone, so he's way behind. Ends up at the Elite Four, where he sucks versus Wil, then he both wins and loses versus Koga (he can hurt everything besides Forretress, but all of those also hit HIM for SE damage...except their SE is in the form of STAB Sludge Bomb while his is in the form of STAB...Confusion). Bruno he can beat, but Bruno is arguably the easiest of them, so that's only a tiny win. He's horrible versus Karen, no doubt, except against Vileplume. The only thing of Lance that he stands a chance against is Gyarados.

Due to being unevolved he'll still be the worst in your party until you get to Bill's house. You show granddad a Lickitung first (I hope you have one!), and then an Oddish, and then you finally have one Leaf Stone to use on this thing. And it's hardly worth it considering the only hard battle left is Red, and he's only good against Pikachu (lol) and Venusaur (not hard either). I suppose he can Leech Seed Snorlax...
 
My own personal list.

G/S/C:
Totodile
Red Gyarados
Mareep

D/P
Chimchar (Infernape: Grass Knot, Rock Slide, Flare Blitz, Close Combat)
Starly
Gible
Shellos
Alakazam

Basically the only Pokemon I battled with throughout the path to the E4. Chimchar and Starly takes care of nearly everything with their coverage.
Gible was for the coolness factor, and the fact that with one swords dance it could sweep cynthia meant it was godly. Gastrodon has good typing and usually is just there to stall. Alakazam was gotten immediately as I had a kadabra and just went around killing stuff.
 
Bear in mind that there are two other ways bar Bill that you can get a Leaf Stone; via Mystery Gift and tradeback. Obviously tradeback is situational, but Mystery Gift is considerably less so, though it's certainly unreliable. Admittedly, if you have to wait until Bill, then he's probably going to be totally deadweight, but if you can get an early stone then it's incredible.

Biggest problem I have with him is the fact that he won't learn Psychic naturally; you've got to wait until well into Kanto to get your TM from Kanto, and depending on the rest of your party, there are likely to be other candidates for it. Sure, you can get them from the game corner, but it's not cheap.

Anyway, in these tiers, is the availability of tradeback taken into account? In the case of trading an easy Stone from R/B/Y to evolve Exeggcute/Eevee/Staryu/whatever, it's not that massive, but I guess if you're going along that line of argument you might as well trade over six level 100's from a completed first gen game. Oh well.
 
If you trade, assuming you actually can, then you'd have to count everything you did in the other game, so I don't think that really helps. The most objective way to factor it in is to make two tier lists for each game: one where you assume you have access to a link cable/other game, and one where you don't.

But other games also allow you to trade your starter away, train him against Elite Four with EXP share or something, trade back and then kill (he will still obey because the ID No. stays the same). So I don't really hold those tiers in high regard.

Fact is, in GSC on your own, you only get one Leaf Stone and it's at like 3/4 of the quest (Kanto isn't even half of the game taking quests and difficulty into account...I'd say 3/4 is even being generous), so stone evolvers just suck.
 
You can get the Stones much earlier in Crystal if you register the phone number of some people, which will eventually call you when they find one. That makes some Pokemon like Poliwag, Exeggcute, Growlithe, Bellsprout and Eevee much better.

I've been playing Crystal lately, which I never played, and the GS tiers work pretty much the same. Suicune is probably much higher considering he doesn't run here. You can get Poliwag really early as well, which is useful with Hypnosis if you don't want Gastly. Lack of Mareep sucks though. The Odd Egg Pokemon you receive from the Day Care man could be useful, you can get Igglybuff, Cleffa, Tyrogue, Magby, Elekid or Smoochum from it. I got a Smoochum, which I first I thought it was awesome because I could use Lovely Kiss early. However, then I learned that Smoochum can't learn Lovely Kiss and Jynx learns it at level 9, so I'm still in the process of making it happy enough before lv.9 to get a Lovely Kiss Jynx before Ice Path. Elekid or Magby would probably be better.
 
E=mc^2 said:
@ kietarr
Charmander don't rock in R/B. Fire was a ok type in R/B, but certainly not the best. Besides, for E4, you just a electricity, water and psychic to win all. Charmander does not have much utility, IMO.

Brock : no
Misty: no
Lt.Surge : ok
Erika : Yes, that's provided if u have flamethower. charmander also dies easily to posion.
Sabrina : ok
Koga: not bad, especially yellow where there are only venomoths and venonats.
Blaine: Yes, if u have earthquake.
Giovanni: not much usefulness.

Lorelei (?): no. it's more like a water trainer than an ice trainer.
Bruno: Can kill fighting type with ease
Agatha: yes with earthquake.
Lance: no
Rival: Not much help.

IMO, squirtle is the best starter in R/B. Surf just kill. and learn ice beam which help greatly for Lance.

my 2 cents
Click to expand...


LOL Charizard kicked ass in RB you just had to hold off on evolving Charmeleon until Lv42 (A whole 6 levels) for Flamethrower. It was even more ridiculous if you got it up to 56 before evolving and had Fire Spin (which was pretty much instant win)

Brock didn't have any Rock attacks in RB. I solo'd his Gym with Charmander one game because his pokemon are completely boned if Ember Burns them, and all they can do to respond is Tackle or Bind. Since Bide didn't have priority then, you'd just Growl at them while they were biding making them even more useless.

Misty did kick Charmander's butt though.

Surge was neutral, but if you used mega EXP building Diglett's Cave, you can easily get Charmeleon to Lv 36 for Slash and mop the place up.

Erika's Gym is basically Exp building for Charmeleon.

Sabrina < Slash.

Koga < Flamethrower

Blaine < Slash. EQ is just an unneccesary bonus.

Giovanni is a problem that can be solved by "Starmie used Surf," but Zard himself isn't much help there.

Slash/Flamethrower Charizard was rididulous. Slash basically had 140 Base Power and aside from Victory Road and Giovanni, most rock types couldn't stand up to Flamethrower. Sabrina gets nuked by Slash's 100% CH rate on Zard, which cuts through Barrier and Reflect. (LOL in Yellow where Venomoth gets owned by FT).

Charizard is useful for taking out Lorelei's Jynx, but that's about it. If you had EQ Agatha was mostly a breeze, I think only one of the Gengars had Thunderbolt and Golbat gets 2HKO'd by FT.

Charizard easily beat Hitmonchan and Hitmonlee since Bruno didn't give them RS and they had trash special. LOL Thunderpunch.

Wasn't that useful against Lance because Zard was still weak to Ice Beam, but you could still 2HKO most of his pokemon with Slash. Or just use "Starmie used Ice Beam."

Charizard cleans up Rival's Exeggutor, Pidgeot, Arcanine, and Alakazam fairly well. You don't need an "It's Super Effective" message on every attack in order to beat trainers in-game. Charizard and Starmie can beat the entire game between them, though you may just want to pick up Zapdos at the power Plant to Thunder Lapras into oblivion.
 
Mizuno said:
I got a Smoochum, which I first I thought it was awesome because I could use Lovely Kiss early. However, then I learned that Smoochum can't learn Lovely Kiss and Jynx learns it at level 9, so I'm still in the process of making it happy enough before lv.9 to get a Lovely Kiss Jynx before Ice Path. Elekid or Magby would probably be better.
Click to expand...
Smoochum doesn't evolve by happiness. It evolves at Lv30.

Also, I'd like to point out that if the Odd Egg Pokemon isn't shiny, it has flat zero IVs. But I think it's around a 50/50 chance of being either shiny or crap.
 
MegaMewtwo said:
Smoochum doesn't evolve by happiness. It evolves at Lv30.

Also, I'd like to point out that if the Odd Egg Pokemon isn't shiny, it has flat zero IVs. But I think it's around a 50/50 chance of being either shiny or crap.
Click to expand...

Ah, good thing I haven't really played much with it! Thanks for the info heheh.
 
Duck Knight said:
LOL Charizard kicked ass in RB you just had to hold off on evolving Charmeleon until Lv42 (A whole 6 levels) for Flamethrower. It was even more ridiculous if you got it up to 56 before evolving and had Fire Spin (which was pretty much instant win)
Click to expand...

Flamethrower sure. Fire Spin sucks. It takes ages and it's unreliable. Using high powered moves and having to use Potions takes shorter than using Fire Spin.

Dak Knight said:
Brock didn't have any Rock attacks in RB. I solo'd his Gym with Charmander one game because his pokemon are completely boned if Ember Burns them, and all they can do to respond is Tackle or Bind. Since Bide didn't have priority then, you'd just Growl at them while they were biding making them even more useless.
Click to expand...

Brock uses Full Heal if you burn one of his Pokemon.

DK said:
Surge was neutral, but if you used mega EXP building Diglett's Cave, you can easily get Charmeleon to Lv 36 for Slash and mop the place up.
Click to expand...

Squirtle on Misty's gym was neutral, but if you used mega EXP building in the grass, you can easily get a 100 Blastoise and OHKO everything she has.

If you EXP abuse like that, anything beats everything in-game. It's no argument.

Donkey Kong said:
Sabrina gets nuked by Slash's 100% CH rate on Zard, which cuts through Barrier and Reflect. (LOL in Yellow where Venomoth gets owned by FT).
Click to expand...

?_? Sabrina has Venomoth in Red/Blue, not in Yellow. In Yellow she has Abra/Kadabra/Alakazam.
 
Squirtle on Misty's gym was neutral, but if you used mega EXP building in the grass, you can easily get a 100 Blastoise and OHKO everything she has.

If you EXP abuse like that, anything beats everything in-game. It's no argument.
Click to expand...

Diglett/Dugtrio gave insane EXP in RBY. I'm not talking a half day here, maybe 3 hours. 3 Hours which basically allow you to coast through the rest of the game effortlessly. Using some of the training I usually got FT on Charmeleon somewhere around Silph Co. It isn't as if you can't just get Charmelon Mega Punch and Submission as holdovers until Slash and Flamethrower. If fact, there's almost no pokemon that uses the free Mega Punch TM outside Mt. Moon's exit as well as Charmeleon. (Heck, outside of Pikachu, Geodude, and Nidoking/Queen I don't even think another pokemon capturable at that point even learns Mega Punch.)

I just mentioned Fire Spin because in RBY its instant win due to Charizard's speed. Didn't say it was fast.

LOL at Full Heal Brock. His pokemon's special is so craptastic its just another free turn he's given you to Ember.
 
Hello, bumpers. I like this thread :)

Regarding Crystal version

Before getting started on the Pokemons, there are two major things to consider for Crystal. First is access to evolution stones in Johto. Some trainers call you to rematch and to give you a stone too. One of every type can be attained this way, except Moon and Sun. This makes up for great improvements on Poliwag's, Bellsprout's, Eevee's and whatnot profiles. Second is the fat duder at Game Corner's entrance. He appears on Saturdays and for 4000 game coins he'll teach one of your Pokemon Ice Bem, Flamethrower or Thunderbolt. I don't think I need to explain how awesome this is.

(Disclaimer: I don't remember how to spell the fire starter's name)

Cyndaquil: ungodly. Good growth rate, speed and SAtk. Also evolves faster. Rapes Bugsy, Jasmine, Sprout Tower, does ok on Chuck(no Guts!) but really on everyone else, except Pryce. Gets Flame Wheel which is fine on its own and can also use Strenght if you want to. Can solo the game.

Totodile: this guy is alright though not much as useful as Cyndaquil. His physical strenght is great but lacks stab whereas his SAtk is poor. It does Surf though, which is always a plus. It won't do good in Sprout Tower though. It probably can solo the game too but not as easily as the aforementioned fiery mouse.

Chikorita: oh my God, Chikorita BLOWS. It can't touch Falkner or Bugsy or god damn Rockets. Jasmine is also a pain and so are Clair, Pryce, Morty, Also it learns what Mega Drain? At least it is neutral in Sprout Tower but you'll be wishing you stayed home doing laundrywork.

Bellsprout: pretty awesome early on. Easy pick for Flash and Cut and can fight too! I don't remember in what levels it learns each powder but it sure does. Can level up insanely in Union Cave. And since this is Crystal It can evolve anytime after you get to Goldenrod. Bad things about it is it isn't stelar against any Gym in particular(it is bad in some, actually) and aside from powders it has Vine Whip. If you want to hit harder you'll have to Resort to Sludge Bomb TM but I guess it is fine since not much wants a random Poison attack.

Oddish: every point made for Bellsprout can be made for this guy but I think Oddish is slighty worse because it can't Flash and comes later. Also Victreebel is much cooler than Voloplum.

Abra: wait wait wait, Abra gets the nod here. It can be bought at the Game Corner for 100 coins if I remember right, making it twice as useful because a) Kadabra means game over and b) Machop(see below). Not that hard to level up actually, you can buy an elemental punch, say, Ice Pucnh, and rock Union Cave. Although Thunderpunch is probably better since there is no Mareep in Crystal.

Drowzee: same points made for GS are still valid but it is no match for Kadabra. It can be used for Hypnosys, Headbutt and Flash though.

Machop: three words. Miltank, Sudowoodo, Snorlax.

Zubat/Golbat: Zubat is waaaaaay worse this time because you can simply catch a level 16 Golbat at Mahogany's end of Mt Mortar. And it comes with Screech! Unless you're DESPERATE to Bite Morty's ass, why bother with the pain in the butt that is killing with Leech Life? Specially when Kadabra and Drowzee are avaible. Then you can go back to Goldenrod, cut its hair until it bleeds, make it suck on Lemonade cans until it farts and rejoice on you level 17~20 Crobat. It gets Wing Attack at what 26? Also Fly.

Wooper: good cute slimy happy little duder! Can use Surf, can level up tremendously in Union Cave, does well in most Gyms. Can take an Hyper Beam from Lance and survive to tell the tale. You can give it Earthquake later on but sadly you will have to resort to Slam until then. Lack of good stab, or reliable for that matter, move save Surf is what dims its shine.

Suicune: it doesn't run this version so you can catch it quite early. It refuses to be caught but its massive power cannot be dismissed.

Chinchou: no Mareep means you'll ave to resort to unconventional stuff such as Chinchou if you want to fizzle things with a stab. I think it can be hooked with a Good Rod in Jasmine's city, on the water near S.S. Aqua. Not the definition of Bulky Water or Speedy Hitter but Surf/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave can't be bad.

aaa I meant to write more but it is three in the morning and I have to work tomorrow(today).
 
Poliwag definitely deserves some credit in Crystal, as it is the game's earliest sleep-inducer. You catch it at level four and it learns Hypnosis at level seven. Being the earliest wild Water Pokemon (in case you go with Cyndaquil or Chikorita) and getting Body Slam, Perish Song and Belly Drum naturally certainly do it some favors as well. As Yu-Ri-Oh mentioned, the additional evolution stones that you can get in Johto also mean that it's not stuck as Poliwhirl until Cerulean City. I caught a Poliwag with awesome DVs in my current (and first, haha) Crystal file and it's never left my team.

Also, regarding Heracross, you gain access to him as soon as you get Headbutt in both Gold/Silver and Crystal... you just have to spend about two minutes to backtrack. I caught my Heracross in Gold outside of Union Cave, at the area where Frieda shows up near the Pokemon Center, and I caught my Heracross in Crystal east of Azalea Town.
 
Actually you can catch Heracross as soon as you beat Slowpookar Well because it learns Headbutt naturally. Downside is, you'd shake shake the nearby trees for an hour and Heracross doesn't learn MegaHorn until level 54. And it has 5 PP. As far as in-game goes, I wouldn't give Heracross much credit. Same ges for Scyther and Pinsir: a bitch to catch, doesn't do much without some tech.
 
also, if we're playing the whole, waste 3 hours to train, just get lowest level of w/e, then put something in day care, if you bike for 3 hours, you WILL get a super high ass level poke
 
*Pokes head in*

GSC - related.

Lapras - wow, if you don't start with Totodile, this is your strong one. Surf, Ice beam, Confuse ray, sing, t-bolt once you pass the elite 4 in Crystal.
It comes at a high level, and all you need is the Ecruteak Badge. Level 20 is a little low, but the exp gains afterward is enormous, and can be brought up fairly quickly.
Fits in very well to any game.




Might want to mention that the "stone" pokemon suck, as there is only 1 stone of each type (not moon - that is every monday).
 
Lapras located at Union Cave on Friday nights is a great asset to the team, being able to have access to it reasonably early (once you get surf at eucretek (sp?) city) and naturally learning key moves including STAB IBeam, Hydro Pump, Sing, Confuse Ray, Perish Song, and Rain Dance. Provides an easy ride when facing Jasmine, Pryce, Team Rockets, Claire, and the Pokemon League. I'd say it's more useful and easier to train than the Red Gyarados.

Also, as Yu-Ri-Oh mentions, Abra definitely is a top OU Pokemon in GSC. You can obtain one via Goldenrod City Game Corner for only 100 coins. Buy Thunder Punch and Ice Punch TMs in the same city, and raising Abra into Kadabra would be a breeze. Kadabra can single handedly plow through the gym leaders and E4 (except for Karen's Umbreon / Houndoom), and is one of the fastest pokemon to learn Psychic (38).

Just as Ice / Electric / Psychic are the key types to defeat E4 in RBY (although a mix of Ground Types and Grass / Poison Types doesn't hurt), strong special moves + fighting (to deal with Karen's Umbreon and Red's Snorlax) pretty much seals GSC E4, particularly Ice, Electric, Psychic (like RBY), Water, and Fire. Know any accessible pokemon that can possess powerful elemental moves with such typings (receiving STAB is even better) is the right monster to use. These include Typhlosion and Magmar (STAB fire and Thunderpunch from Godenrod Dept), Lanturn (Thunder TM from Game corner or Spark and Surf / HPump), Jynx (IPunch and Psychic (Smoochum at L. 37, which means you need to use Sing instead of LK), Electabuzz (Tbolt and Ice / Fire Punch), Espeon (Shadow Ball TM or Eevee's Bite at L. 30 to deal with other Psychis and Psybeam at L. 36 / Psychic at L. 47).

Another useful strategy is to cancel evolution to acquire good moves earlier in the game. A prime example would be getting Cyndaquil to learn Flamethrower at level 46 rather than at level 60. Cyndaquil would be losing power yes, but it'll level up faster and Flamethrower is a worthwhile reward to gain early. Sure you can get Fire Blast from Game Corner, but it's only 8 PP =[. Plus you may want to save those coins for Thunder on Lanturn ;]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top