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Introducing ... GrowthTran!

Lemmiwinks MkII said:
WHAT!? Can anyone translate this for me?
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u could just simply be polite and say i didnt understand anything from what u have said. btw it is in english just u know this!. what i am saying is that this combo is really great and futuresuperstar did a really great job. He explained how to use it why to use it and how not to be countered. I am just trying to be helpful by contributing. And i have a fear that our mostly used ninjask the baton passer might ruin this team? thats all i am curious about. also u dont need to deride the combo that way. We dont force u to use it and its really great. no combo can be perfect such as this one. but its pretty good and will make opposing teams cry(of course they r not usin growtran) when they see the power of the heatran. so all i wonder is ninjask? is this combo good enough to take one down?
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I have accepted that it is good. Three times. All I'm saying is what people are saying about 'switching to something else' can be said about any good strategy, and the opponent can do exactly the same thing, i.e. switch out their GrowthTran counter for 'something else' then bring it back in when they attempt it again. It just doesn't hold as a convincing argument for me.
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The best part is when you don't use Tangrowth to set up Heatran, and they don't expect it. If they have something that comes standard with flamethrower out and you have Skarm out, they're not going to expect the set-up. Really what I'm trying to say is that it can be worked in any number of ways, but Tangrowth is possibly its best partner; Like Electivire and Gyarados, but a bit less expected and a bit more powerful.
 
Eggwhite said:
For the battle tower I might try out heatran, tangrowth and staraptor since they cover each other to a tee.
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None of them resist fighting, since Staraptor's got Normal type. Also, since Staraptor's not strong in offense or defense...
I'd say replace Staraptor with something like Gligar, or maybe Gyarados.
 
Gyarados or Gliscor+Heatran+Tangrowth cover most every weakness except for Rock, so Gliscor / Gyarados can be utilized with GrowthTran, although Gyarados will lose power on Waterfall, so beware of that
 
u could just simply be polite and say i didnt understand anything from what u have said. btw it is in english just u know this!. what i am saying is that this combo is really great and futuresuperstar did a really great job. He explained how to use it why to use it and how not to be countered. I am just trying to be helpful by contributing. And i have a fear that our mostly used ninjask the baton passer might ruin this team? thats all i am curious about. also u dont need to deride the combo that way. We dont force u to use it and its really great. no combo can be perfect such as this one. but its pretty good and will make opposing teams cry(of course they r not usin growtran) when they see the power of the heatran. so all i wonder is ninjask? is this combo good enough to take one down?
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Sorry daksunt, I didn't mean to be rude. I see what you're trying to say now. Come to think of it, Ninjask passing to Heatran could threaten this set, as that also resolves Heatran's speed deficiency, which is the main concern I have with this particular combo.

The best part is when you don't use Tangrowth to set up Heatran, and they don't expect it. If they have something that comes standard with flamethrower out and you have Skarm out, they're not going to expect the set-up. Really what I'm trying to say is that it can be worked in any number of ways, but Tangrowth is possibly its best partner; Like Electivire and Gyarados, but a bit less expected and a bit more powerful.
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That is more like it. An example of team synergy that benefits the combo and tries to iron out as many flaws as possible. This is why I wanted to see futuresuperstar's RMT based on this to give a clear and concise description of how the TEAM works with it, and how each possible counter is dealt with. That is all I ask. Also, I agree that this combo WAS less expected than Gyarados/Electivire, but I sincerely doubt it will be for much longer.
 
Nobody said it was unbeatable.They are clearly some pokes like the flaming monkey and chicken,zard,etc the mess up the combo.What do you when poke clear beat something you switch out, but note i mention to two real ways of dealing with the problem too.

It is some super amazing unstoppable combo?No.It is nice combo which could have decent implication in metagame that has sandstream as big part?Yes.Do have to run get some special poke on your team to deal with tangrowth/ heatran?No.

What happening is well written thread and good idea,which gets slight hype like all things in pokemon for example Garchomp,Gyarados/Electivire(people act like motor drive is instant dd or something)Hate of Blissey and skarm,a special choice band(don't you remember people saying that alazakam would be broken if they had special choice band) and the list goes on.If it is combo it will stick around
 
I guess my only bet to get a good Morning Sun Tangrowth would be through trading but those are very rare.

What would be the best alternative to Morning Sun? Would this be decent?:

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Bold, Chlorophyll, 172 HP / 220 Defense / 100 Sp.Atk / 16 Speed
- Sunny Day
- Leech Seed/Sleep Powder
- Grass Knot
- Focus Blast

Ancient Power/Hidden Power Rock are other options to deal with this duos counters.
 
You know, most of the counters that I see being named are very, very prone to get owned by rock. What would people think about Focus Blast being changed to Hidden Power [Rock]? You would not threaten Tyranitar so much, but you would cover the likes of Charizard in one fell swoop, for instance. I still think Focus Blast is a better choice, but it is an option. Same with Sleep Powder.
 
This thread wins an internet and a custom sprite for the OP.

Have fun!


tangrowthavek7.png
 
Good IVd Pokémon that takes about twenty times as long to reset for once as a standard one-off... Sounds like a job for someone like SlakingMaster, IMO, especially if only for testing purposes. Of course, the IVs shouldn't be perfect, they should be "good". Something like 28+ in the most important stats, 25-28 in the less important, and whatever in the unimportant (lol@attack).


@GrowthTranSprite: I lold.
 
Boa1891 said:
Good IVd Pokémon that takes about twenty times as long to reset for once as a standard one-off... Sounds like a job for someone like SlakingMaster, IMO, especially if only for testing purposes. Of course, the IVs shouldn't be perfect, they should be "good". Something like 28+ in the most important stats, 25-28 in the less important, and whatever in the unimportant (lol@attack).


@GrowthTranSprite: I lold.
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Thanks! I used to do Fire Emblem sprites a LONG time ago... Guess I still got it, eh?
 
Lemmiwinks MkII said:
I still can't believe people are still saying this idea has little to no counters. Whilst I like it for its ingenuity and originality, I must say it isn't THAT amazing. ANY Fire type with 281+ Speed and either Earthquake or a very strong fighting move breaks this down, as well as many mixed sweepers with Ground/Ice or Ground/Fire move combos. To add to nomargu46's Charizard, I could include Infernape, Salamence, Garchomp and Dragonite among other less used candidates. This whole charade reminds me of the whole Gaburaisu hoohah caused by the Japanese release. What next? A 500+ post thread entitled 'Who will be your GrowthTran counter?'.
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Quoted for truth. This set is a gimmick.

1. It'll destroy any utter noobs at Competitive battling who have no idea how to predict or counter. It's basically the people who have high statted Pokemon with good moves, but have no idea how to utilize them.

2. Smart players will counter it very quickly. As I've said before, the gimmick's huge weakspot is that so many more powerful Pokemon that can outspeed it (It's not hard to outspeed...) can move faster than it and land a 1HKO with the omnipresent EQ.
 
I used a similar combination of Grass and Fire in advance OU/UU (Exeggutor/Moltres and Vileplume/Ninetales, respectively) and it worked. Moltres with Sunny Day is scary as long as Blissey can be removed (and it could beat damaged Blisseys sometimes). I'll have to try this Tangrowth/Heatran in D/P!

I really don't see why some of you guys are so negative. "LOL BLISSEY LOL" isn't an argument, because if it's the only counter to it then we're definitely in the right way. Who uses Charizard? Anyway, I'd definitely use Choice Scarf on Heatran so it almost ensures a kill, either by KOing what is facing it or 2hkoing whatever would be foolish enough to switch in. This also rules out most Fire types since even with the resistance they can't take two Fire Blasts.
 
Thanks so much, haha. That is beyond awesome.

In reference to its counters, here is a list of Pokemon that can adequately counter this combination, in my opinion, and some Pokemon that you may think can, but in reality, cannot.

Counters:
Infernape: A strong counter to many variations of GrowthTran, Infernape scares this combination. With Close Combat, it can easily dispatch of Heatran. However, keep in mind that Flare Blitz is a physical attack. It will not take down Tangrowth in one hit -- in fact, there is even a chance, depending on the held item and nature of the opponent, that you can use Morning Sun to completely cure you of the damage, effectively Power Point-Stalling the Infernape into hurting itself with each blow. However, to a Choice Band or Life Orb Infernape, Tangrowth will barely survive and has no business really staying in the battle. Pack a ghost or fighting resist, and you should be set. Also, if you decide to stick Choice Scarf on Heatran, it can absorb the fire attack and kill Infernape with its boosted fire attack. Infernape is only a counter to the Life Orb-variation or Choice Specs.

Charizard: Resisting every single attack in the combined set, Charizard is a definite threat. Switch out immediately. Charizard, truthfully, is the only absolute counter to this set, since Infernape fails against the Choice Scarf variation. While the Choice Scarf variation out-speeds Charizard, its attacks probably will not kill it before it kills you. However, there is still a chance that with the boosted speed, Heatran can kill it with a STAB, Flash Fire, Sunny Day Fire Blast.

Blissey: Blissey, of course, causes major problems, especially to the Choice Scarf set. However, the Life Orb and Choice Specs sets can take this pink blob down in two hits, provided you are not crippled by Thunder Wave.

Aerodactyl: While Ice Fang from Aerodactyl is merely a 4HKO against Tangrowth, it will not be offering up any Heatran blessings with the absence of fire moves and the damaging Earthquake. Just make sure you dont get caught in the misprediction, since it has such a diverse move-pool.

Gyarados: Gyarados is *not* a counter! Ice Fang is a 3HKO on Tangrowth, and Tangrowth will also 3HKO it back with Grass Knot. Unlike Gyarados, Tangrowth has Morning Sun. Also, Heatran will out-speed Standard Bulky Gyarados with any item and can OHKO with Choice Specs and all of the set-up. Just be careful how much you risk if Gyarados is packing Earthquake. Waterfall is no big deal in Sunny Day.
 
futuresuperstar said:
Thanks so much, haha. That is beyond awesome.

In reference to its counters, here is a list of Pokemon that can adequately counter this combination, in my opinion, and some Pokemon that you may think can, but in reality, cannot.

Counters:
Infernape: A strong counter to many variations of GrowthTran, Infernape scares this combination. With Close Combat, it can easily dispatch of Heatran. However, keep in mind that Flare Blitz is a physical attack. It will not take down Tangrowth in one hit -- in fact, there is even a chance, depending on the held item and nature of the opponent, that you can use Morning Sun to completely cure you of the damage, effectively Power Point-Stalling the Infernape into hurting itself with each blow. However, to a Choice Band or Life Orb Infernape, Tangrowth will barely survive and has no business really staying in the battle. Pack a ghost or fighting resist, and you should be set. Also, if you decide to stick Choice Scarf on Heatran, it can absorb the fire attack and kill Infernape with its boosted fire attack. Infernape is only a counter to the Life Orb-variation or Choice Specs.

Charizard: Resisting every single attack in the combined set, Charizard is a definite threat. Switch out immediately. Charizard, truthfully, is the only absolute counter to this set, since Infernape fails against the Choice Scarf variation. While the Choice Scarf variation out-speeds Charizard, its attacks probably will not kill it before it kills you. However, there is still a chance that with the boosted speed, Heatran can kill it with a STAB, Flash Fire, Sunny Day Fire Blast.

Blissey: Blissey, of course, causes major problems, especially to the Choice Scarf set. However, the Life Orb and Choice Specs sets can take this pink blob down in two hits, provided you are not crippled by Thunder Wave.

Aerodactyl: While Ice Fang from Aerodactyl is merely a 4HKO against Tangrowth, it will not be offering up any Heatran blessings with the absence of fire moves and the damaging Earthquake. Just make sure you dont get caught in the misprediction, since it has such a diverse move-pool.

Gyarados: Gyarados is *not* a counter! Ice Fang is a 3HKO on Tangrowth, and Tangrowth will also 3HKO it back with Grass Knot. Unlike Gyarados, Tangrowth has Morning Sun. Also, Heatran will out-speed Standard Bulky Gyarados with any item and can OHKO with Choice Specs and all of the set-up. Just be careful how much you risk if Gyarados is packing Earthquake. Waterfall is no big deal in Sunny Day.
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As soon as you plop a Pokemon dead with Fire Blast, Focus Band Infernape can Revenge Kill Heatran with Close Combat. Lol at needing maximum power to do unnecessary overkills. Timd w/Life Orb or Scarf is the way to go.

You've been told again and again... Almost any Standard Pokemon faster than it is a counter. If it then has a high power attack that is SE against Heatran and isn't Water-Type, it's a counter. There's plenty of those.
 
If you would have checked the front page of the topic, I already added Choice Scarf as a valid option that helps out-speed most of its problems. Timid with Choice Scarf is kind of weird, since it does not really have anything to fear from many Pokemon with more than a 120 base speed. Plus, switching to Choice Scarf and losing the extra attack, you need to keep Modest.

I understand what you are saying, Infernape is a counter. I am simply saying that with Choice Scarf, you *can* out-speed it and in many cases can kill it before it kills you.

Edit: I take that back. Aerodactyl with Earthquake is a problem, so that would be the only reason I can see to use Timid. Even Weavile is not really an issue.
 
Striker, to be a counter, one must be able to switch in and live to tell the story while nullifying the purpose of Heatran. There's very few things that can switch into a boosted Heatran blast and make it through in one piece. You can, however, revenge kill it relatively easily.
 
Mekkah said:
Striker, to be a counter, one must be able to switch in and live to tell the story while nullifying the purpose of Heatran. There's very few things that can switch into a boosted Heatran blast and make it through in one piece. You can, however, revenge kill it relatively easily.
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Very true. If Heatran ain't Choice Scarfed, Dugtrio ends this combo permanently with no escape. If it is Choice Scarfed, another Heatran can come in and get a guaranteed free boosted hit. The opponent will then have effectively exploited your strategy and turned the tables on you.
 
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